| Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Venture
   |
Posted - 2003.10.30 08:53:00 -
[1]
Ok, besides the usual guns and missiles I need help with the support equipment with the mid/low slots.
High slots:
H-50 missile launcher, loaded with torps
M-12 missile launcher, loaded with heavy missiles
3 Medium laser/pulse lasers with varying freq crystals
1 Miner II mining laser
Mid slots:
2 x AB's
1 x medium shield booster
1 x shield booster enhancer
low slots
4 x 15% cargo expanders
I currently can hold my own against four pirates ranging in size:
1 x 10k pirate
1 x 8k pirate
2 x 6k pirate
I would like to optimize my Moa for combat. I had taken 50% shield depletion from the above skirmish and would like to know what else I can use to lower shield depletion. Thank you
______________________
Ganja Unlimited
Security Director/Fleet Admiral
"Smoke everyone and be happy!" |
Quiz
|
Posted - 2003.10.30 14:46:00 -
[2]
Try 1 AB, 2 shield hardeners, 1 shield booster.
Make sure the hardeners are for the right damage type. There are 4 damage types - emp, thermal, kinetic, explosive - and there is shield hardeners available for every type.
A shield hardener will cut your vulnerabilty to a damage in half. Your shields have 0% resistence against emp damage for example and therefore you take 100% damage. With a hardener, you take only 50%.
Your shield have some natural protection against the other damage types. Do a Show Info on your ship and you will see how much. Explosive tops the list.
Good luck
|
SILK EXIDE
|
Posted - 2003.10.30 18:10:00 -
[3]
Ive only had my Moa 2-3 weeks but I have found that the following set up allows me to successfully hunt Sancha npc pirates to 20-30k Ravisher/Ravager. I have taken on a spawn of 17 npc 10-30k Sanchas at one time only taking damage to my shields of about 15-20%.
You must however have reasonable gunnery and ship/speed skills to hit for reasonable damage at 20 to30km which is the distance you must keep btw you and your prey to prevent being hit by them.
[list][*]HI SLOTS: 4x 250 Railguns (antimatter/plutonium ammo)
M12 launcher with selection of heavy missiles
A3 launcher with defenders as fast ROF
MED SLOTS: 2x Afterburners
1x Med Capacitor Battery
Small supplemental barrier
LOW SLOTS: Marked Generator (for Cap recharge)
Power diagnostic I
Reactor control unit I
Heatsink I
To allow this config Engineering needs to be at least lvl4 and to prevent capacitor being drained too low during battle need to trai skills that reduce hybrid weapon capacitor usage.
I have no experience with lasers but there is a post few threads back on this topic.
Enjoy your Moa but dont forget the skills.
 Quote:
Space is always greener on the other side of the belt.
|
Kaylon Syi
|
Posted - 2003.10.30 19:01:00 -
[4]
If I was gonna fight in a MOA :
2 malkuth incursion launchers w/ cruise missiles & torpedos
3 720mm Howlizers 'Scout' w/ Depleated Uranium M & Phased Plasma M
1 small Photon smartbomb ( for taking out missiles fired at you while your NOT using your launchers )
----
1 named MWD
1 small to med C5-L shield booster
1 30% Shield Booster Amp ( or Anointed EM ward )
1 10% or higher cap recharger
----
1 Pneumatic Stabilizer
1 Auto-gain Tracking enhancer
1 Overdrive 1s ( or local hull nanos if you want cargo space )
1 cap relay
The reason you took so much damage is that you were set up for mining and trying to fight too. Expanders will take a ship with MWD and turn to a slug.
I would use the above layout for fighting even 30 - 40 k rats. Your cap will hardly ever run out and you will be able to tag the rats at 45km out if you so choose. The 720mm are very good guns but make sure you work on Rapid Firing skill and get a good dmod like the Pneumatic. Take a secured CC will you full of ammo so you can drop it at a planet, moon, or middle of nowhere and ancho it for your personal ammo depot. keep about 1000 rounds in your cargo. Only use the missiles if PKers try to ruin your fun. You can stay at 25km the whole time with Phased Plasma M and pick off the missiles fired at you with your smart bomb and lay waiste with the 720mm. If your not interested in Non Assisted Speed ( since you have MWD ) kill the Overdrive with another Pneumatic to increase rate of fire and damage even more.
other skills to train :
Engineering 4
Electronics 4
Sharp Shooter lvl 3 or 4
Rapid Fireing lvl 3 or 4
Weapons Upgrades lvl 3 or 4
Missile Operation lvl 5
Cruise Missiles lvl 3
Torpedos lvl 3
Heavy Missiles lvl 3
FoF Missiles lvl 4
This makes the MOA a very Tasty alternative combat vessel that is cheaper than a Battleship and could be feared in battle.
|
Lucre
|
Posted - 2003.10.31 09:36:00 -
[5]
Quote:
[list][*]HI SLOTS: 4x 250 Railguns (antimatter/plutonium ammo)
M12 launcher with selection of heavy missiles
A3 launcher with defenders as fast ROF
MED SLOTS: 2x Afterburners
1x Med Capacitor Battery
Small supplemental barrier
LOW SLOTS: Marked Generator (for Cap recharge)
Power diagnostic I
Reactor control unit I
Heatsink I
I'd second the concept but vary in the detail! My exact load-out varies with perceived PvP danger level (e.g. whether or not to carry ECCM etc!) but is usually on the lines of
4 x 250mm rail (AM or Uranium)
2 x Malkuth Assault
Microwarp
Med Shield Boost
Hardener
Cap recharger I (10%)
Power diagnostic I
Power diagnostic I
Cap Power relay I (20%)
Damage modifier
Missile launchers are usually loaded one with defenders and one with light missiles. If I meet missile-armed rats then I reload the second with defenders too. If I dont then I reload the first with missiles. I use light missiles as we have hundreds of the things to get rid of somehow so I don't fret about ammo cost!
But their main job is defending - the guns are the real killers. With AM I start shooting at 28km, with Uranium at 36km. Usually head in to orbit at 20km, with the MWD available to open the range again if needed. I have't engaged anything beyond 20k rats yet, but even with them and their attendants it's very rare to take anything more than superficial scratches to the shields.
However I'd second the recommendation to have good Engineering and power management skills.
|
Rancid Aluminium
|
Posted - 2003.10.31 14:39:00 -
[6]
Someone (2nd poster I think) said they use 4 x 250 rails and a heatsink in low slot ?
Why ?
Heatsink is a laser damage mod.
What you REALLY want for NPC hunting is 4 250 rails , two m-12's with defenders.
A shield booster , an EM or Thermal shield hardner , a tracking comp and a MWD.
In low slots a dmg mod , a power diag , a tracking mod and another low slot of your choice.
Sit at 35 km chaining NPC's till you hearts content and then MWD in and grab loot.
Rinse and repeat
|
Venture
|
Posted - 2003.10.31 19:07:00 -
[7]
Thanks guys. Really appreciate the replies. I was not too hot about using railguns because of the rapid ammo depletion. I added lasers and they just suck up a lot of Cap but 2 rounds with 3 medium lasers at optimal range and varying frequencies took out 6-10k rats no problem.
Also, I have added 2 H-50 missile launchers for my torpedos but they can only fit 2 torps a piece. I was wondering which launcher is the best for max torp loadout.
______________________
Ganja Unlimited
Security Director/Fleet Admiral
"Smoke everyone and be happy!" |
Kaylon Syi
|
Posted - 2003.10.31 19:42:00 -
[8]
1) I guess there are a lot of laser lovers in this game and buy ships that have no business using them    
Get a Maller if you want a cruiser for NPC hunting with lasers... With MOA its a waste... you will loose your ship one day in the heat of battle when you step up to 20k rats and you get warp scrambled , hit by missiles and use your cap up with your shields. Lasers and Caldari don't mix.. give it up now before you give up your ship.
2) Seems some people that give help don't seems to like projectiles to much. Any experienced player will tell you if you stick to projectiles on a ship and be patient with your kills... there is NO REASON to hate projectiles. Close range projectiles have very good Rate of fire... and the long range have a missle launcher-esque rate of fire. But when you can hit for 80 damage at 46k and not worry about missiles hitting you... you can make a cruiser into a 0.0 hunter. Projectiles give you back your cap when you have MWD because M Projectiles take less that 1 cap per shot... YES thats right. And you waste less ammo.
3) 250mm rails are nice but your not gonna get better than 150 damage on a Cruiser using them and thats a great shot. Well... unless you get Prototypes but that cost more than your ship does LOL. They also leave your cap somewhat helpless in a fierce battle... but if your only gonna bore yourself with 10k rats... I guess you should use them.
4) I used every M Hybrid in the game ( even Electron Blasters ) and 3 of the 4 Gallentene Cruisers and once I stepped up to a Dominix I found that the M Hybrids were better than teh L ones. However the don't do as much damage ( unless you have some Nuetron Blasters ( but they miss too much and are only close range ) or the Prototype Gauss. But the fact still remains if you want to keep your ship from exploding or getting jumped by NPC rats... Projectiles and Range are the best options for ships that are made for Hybrids. Maller and Omen are a different story.
|
Venture
|
Posted - 2003.10.31 20:46:00 -
[9]
Kaylon,
Thanks for the reply. Finally starting to understand the concept of each race and their specialty for weapontry. I guess I will have to use Hybrids and Projectiles to maximize the ships configuration. That would greatly reduce Cap use, but it will increase ammo expenditures but it is well worth it if I can use the ships bonus.
But I still need to know is it worthwhile to add 2 launchers and load it with torps. Torps cause such a tremendous amount of damage but the rate of fire is slow.
______________________
Ganja Unlimited
Security Director/Fleet Admiral
"Smoke everyone and be happy!" |
Kaylon Syi
|
Posted - 2003.10.31 21:57:00 -
[10]
Mixing guns of different types limits the range you can have. The reason you use the same type of guns - or 2 different guns but have teh ammo to adjust them to same range is so you can find a happy spot to fight at. In a MOA i would not be happy fighting with Hybrids because I would want to hunt 30K rats with it for some enjoyment.
You can use Hybrids to do that but they miss a lot of consecutive hits... and that takes about 12 cap each shot... multiply that by your rof before your cap runs dry and remeber your fighting at ~30KM MAX with iron ammo with crap damage.
Projectiles ( 650mm Scout or 720mm Howlizer get you great damage for a M at 20km - 30km and you can even use Depleated Uranium to get 45km shots because of the large "falloff" stat of projectiles.
Also you want to concerve your low slot dmods and not use 2 different types ( gyro and magnetic ) to get dmod and rof bonus on the different weapons.
That said... hopefully a bit clearer than a previous post i might have had... This takes us to the Torpedo Situation.
If your ship can handle Launchers then YOU ALWAYS want to have them online ready to go. However, you don't wanna hunt NPCs with missiles and Torpedoes. Simple as you killing your loot can. And its about as expensive as using Heavy Drones for the same thing. These should only be used in case your getting creamed and need to go without using your ship. MOA is great ship for that and you will be pleased once you find the sweet spot. I believe atm the sweet spot is Projectiles because you have 4 mids to use and I wouldn never go anywhere without MWD despite the cap and shield hit. Thats what the other mids and lows are supposed to make up for.
You can even PvP against other ships if you get comfortable and even sneaky with passive targeters and torpedos because from my experience with another corp m8... they don't cause aggresion alarms even when fired and hit target.
so... to reidderate ( despite all the M hybrid lovers ) Projectiles are the loadout to use for shopping at the 0.0 belts and Torpedos/Cruise just incase someone ( read as PVP ) trys to ruin your shopping spree. Anyways... do you really want a loadout like Every other MOA pilot ? 
|
|
|
Slithereen
|
Posted - 2003.11.01 01:42:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Slithereen on 01/11/2003 01:45:33
I hunt and scavenge for a living mainly killing 6 to 20k rats and occasionally 30k rats if someone didn't beat me to the nest first.
I have gone through many mods on my Moa (I keep a major selection of ships), but I have recently settled with 4 250mm railguns and 2 H-50 launchers. On the launchers I can switch between heavy missiles and defenders.
Having an EM shield hardener is a must. I tend to find 8k to 10k rats to be more annoying than 20k or 30k rats. You can warp into a belt and suddenly find three to five of them within 10k of your position. If they gang on you, you can be hurt badly. Many of these rats use either a blaster with some EMP ammo (Serpentis on Tristans like Guardians or Protectors) or some laser with Multi S (Sansha Plague, Butcher or Manslayer). If they get close to you, you may have a hard time hitting them with your big weapons while they nibble your shields at an alarming rate.
That's when I usually unleash the missiles from my H-50s. I can't remember many times launchers have saved my ships when they get jumped upon. Ditto with the hardeners because they reduce the shield damage.
My main armament now is 4 250mms with antimatter. Before that I was using 2 250mms with a heavy pulse and focused med pulse with Radio Ms. The reasons for switching was that after the patch, the railguns now have a lower cap use and a lower grid requirement, so its easier to fit them without using too many reactor modules. So now, with lower grid requirements I can put more cap relays and power diags, and with lower cap consumption, I can power my shields better.
The other reason why I'm using lasers before was logistical reasons. I can't use up too much ammo due to small cargo space that has to be shared with missiles. The lasers help me cut back on the ammo use. After tha patch, missiles are much more compacted, and its now less of a problem for me.
That too, after the patch, laser cap requirements have also gone up, so despite the increased damage, I run the risk of running out my cap faster, especially since boosters now eat more cap to match their increased post patch boost.
I must say that lasers+hybrids really work well, and I don't think I'm killing rats faster with my 4 250mms and antimatter against 2 250mms with antimatter + pulse lasers with radio Ms. The reason for this is that the pulse lasers with radio Ms eat through shields like nuts (pure EM damage) for the hybrids to wreak damage underneath with their kinetic properties.
Having one magnetic stabilizer is also recommended by the way, preferably a named one. As for me, I discovered I can live off with complete stock market parts, and I would rather sell named modules in the market for millions if they only give me 10% advantage at the most.
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
|
Venture
|
Posted - 2003.11.01 10:44:00 -
[12]
Wow, Thanks for all the replies. I just recently replaced the (2) medium lasers with multi freq/X-ray crystals with (2) 250mm hybrids w/antimatter charges. I did notice that outside of 30km the damage was minimal, but once they got within 25km the damage was astronomical. Of course these were 2-3k pirates.
When I get off work in the morning I will try medium projectile weapons to see what works best for me.
As for the two launcher slots I have a H-50 for torps and a M-12 for heavy or lights. I was thinking about loading defenders on them since I run in to a lot of Pirates in 0.0 space that uses missiles.
In case you are wondering that is only 4 high slots, the other two are fitted with Miner II's. With the compliment of drones and Miners I can mine about 2-3 million worth of ISK of ore in an hour using giant secure canisters.
For combat I switch out the 2 miners and replace them with another (2) 250mm railguns.
I still do not have any tracking enhancers or hardeners and will just have to figure out what is best for the kind of pirates I go against.
______________________
Ganja Unlimited
Security Director/Fleet Admiral
"Smoke everyone and be happy!" |
Fred0
|
Posted - 2003.11.01 11:20:00 -
[13]
In my moa I have no problem with any rats ingame. Nullifiers (50k guris)go down pretty fast.
4 * 250 Medium Hybrid rails. Antimatter.
1 * Launcher with random missiles
Med slots:
1 * Afterburner (one is enough for high rats as they are not so fast
1 * Monopulse tracker (or switch to another ammo type)
1 * Medium shield booster
1 * Shield hardener
low slots:
3 * Cap power relays. Most important. They will allow you to live if you mess up and get svarmed
1 * Needed to help you with cpu and power.
Orbit at 20 or 25k depending on threat level.
|
Slithereen
|
Posted - 2003.11.01 11:20:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Slithereen on 01/11/2003 11:21:12
You know, if you are "combat mining", you could probably get a better result with a Vexor with four mining lasers (preferably miner IIs), a medium shield booster, a capacitor battery and a recharger, four cargo holds, and whole pack of heavy and medium combat and scout drones.
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
|
Venture
|
Posted - 2003.11.01 13:21:00 -
[15]
I'm not combat mining, not really. I am in a 0.6 system and the occasional 2-3k rat comes along and I need to put him out of his misery. I am mining now for the next 3 weeks to get enough minerals to build my battleship. Also I want to know how much I can make in that time.
______________________
Ganja Unlimited
Security Director/Fleet Admiral
"Smoke everyone and be happy!" |
Venture
|
Posted - 2003.11.01 13:26:00 -
[16]
Fred0,
Thanks for your configuration on your Moa. Pretty interesting. And you say you have no problems handling 50k rats with it? I must try it after I mine enough ore for my battleship. Have you ever tried using projectile weapons on your Moa?
______________________
Ganja Unlimited
Security Director/Fleet Admiral
"Smoke everyone and be happy!" |
Fred0
|
Posted - 2003.11.01 15:20:00 -
[17]
The 50k guristas nullifiers use hybrids themselves and have about 40k range with them. No big use trying to stay out of range. The key would be the 3 cap power relays which let you be pretty liberal with the shield booster.
for example serpentis 50k rats don't start shooting until about 20k which means you will outrange them with this config.
I have only a lil exp from ammo. However, I like to play at my natural advantages. And the Moa gets bonus's at dmg and range. :)
|
Jarjar
|
Posted - 2003.11.01 15:36:00 -
[18]
Don't get a battleship before you can chain high-level NPCs in a cruiser. 
My old Moa setup:
4x 250mm Gauss w/ Uranium ammo
2x Empty slots (due to low powergrid; 250mms were at 280MW back then)
1x Med C5-L Shield booster
1x EM + 1x Thermal hardener (depending on what NPCs I hunted)
1x Quad LiF MWD (saved the ship at least 3 times)
3x Reactor Control I
1x Cap power relay
I would fire them forever with only controlled bursts 3, energy management 3 and energy system operations 4 by the way (I *think* those were the levels I had).
I used it to chain sansha's 40k (5x40k) or Serpentis 5x30k (easier).
|
Tion Barton
|
Posted - 2003.11.01 16:45:00 -
[19]
One thing I'd add to the above poster: I suggest using 4x compressed coils instead of protos. Protos cost 4-6 mil, whereas compressed ones are only one notch down from protos and you can buy them for 1.5 apiece. They give you quiet a good advantage in all areas over stock 250 mm's (3k+ opt range, damage, and cap use). My set up:
4x compressed coils with AM or plutonimum, 2 launchers with defenders for tough fights
1x shield booster, 1x ab (or mwd), 1x hardener, cap recharger (or another hardener). I'd use a tracking comp here but have no skills for them yet.
1x power plant, 1x cap relay, 2x hybrid damage mods
With this setup 20k rats explode in seconds, I can chain anything I've encountered so far (up to 40k, since I haven't seen any 50k yet). I leave off with cargo bay full of ammo, chain until out of ammo, and pick up decent stuff to reload ammo.
|
Venture
|
Posted - 2003.11.01 20:27:00 -
[20]
JarJar,
I totally agree that I have to learn Cruiser operation before I jump in to a Battleship. I am in no hurry but I have a BP and I needed the minerals to start the process. I was just wondering how long it will actually take me to compile all that ore. To tell you honestly I still like my Kestrel with 4 launchers fitted with torps and heavies over the Moa.
As for the type of railguns I have. I currently configured with stock 250mm and as I get more money I will eventually move up.
______________________
Ganja Unlimited
Security Director/Fleet Admiral
"Smoke everyone and be happy!" |
|
|
Jarjar
|
Posted - 2003.11.01 20:42:00 -
[21]
I never said you need 'em, just what I used.
Got them for free before loot drops got nerfed, 2 hours of 30k chaining (got 5).
|
Venture
|
Posted - 2003.11.01 22:03:00 -
[22]
I was out in Stain for about an hour and every belt I went to had pirates ranging from 8k-10k and an occassional 20k thrown in the mix. Back then I was flying a Blackbird and was not really equipped to handle 4 or 5 pirates at the same time. I did at one time took out (8) 10k pirates at a belt and could not get any of the loot because they kept on respawning at such a fast rate . I then decided to use my MWD to get in fast and snatch as much of the loot as possible. Like you I reuse all my pirate loot to equip my ship.
______________________
Ganja Unlimited
Security Director/Fleet Admiral
"Smoke everyone and be happy!" |
Slithereen
|
Posted - 2003.11.02 02:31:00 -
[23]
"Don't get a battleship before you can chain high-level NPCs in a cruiser."
That is if you can still chain at all. After subsequent patches, I don't think you can chain anymore as CCP seems to have fixed that bug.
Also, to Venture,
Regardless of what security status the system is in, or the level of opposition, you will find the Vexor a better miner than a Moa and can far better protect itself, especailly if you got heavy drones with you.
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
|
Venture
|
Posted - 2003.11.02 20:22:00 -
[24]
Thanks for all the replies, but I found out that I do not have the skills to use (2) launchers and (4) railguns at the same time. I just don't have the necessary skills yet . But working towards that as I speak.
But I was able to add (3) Miner II's and one H-50 launcher to do some "Combat mining" in a 0.6 system. Had no problems handling the 2-3k rats there with heavies.
And yes, definitely have to be proficient in Cruisers before even thinking about moving in to a battleship. Just chatting with you guys and seeing your configuration compared to mine has opened my eyes to some serious deficiency in my skills training. Just because I can fly it does not mean I am ready to move up a class.
Again, thanks for everyones help
______________________
Ganja Unlimited
Security Director/Fleet Admiral
"Smoke everyone and be happy!" |
Fred0
|
Posted - 2003.11.02 22:43:00 -
[25]
Just a hint man. Rarer guns and missile bays consume less power. So have a look at how much you are short and perhaps put some "limos" missile bays on and you might be in the clear..
|
Slithereen
|
Posted - 2003.11.03 01:09:00 -
[26]
If you're really very proficient with cruisers, a battleship is actually redundant because there is no pirate spawn in EVE where a skilled pilot in a Moa or Maller cannot take out. Even 40 to 50k ones.
A battleship would only make the spawn hunt so boring.
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
|
Lucre
|
Posted - 2003.11.03 09:11:00 -
[27]
Quote:
.You can use Hybrids to do that but they miss a lot of consecutive hits... and that takes about 12 cap each shot... multiply that by your rof before your cap runs dry and remeber your fighting at ~30KM MAX with iron ammo with crap damage.
My combat skills are mostly around 3, but IIRC my 250mm rails are good for fighting at 35km with Uranium ammo - which has quite reasonable damage. Even antimatter is good for 28km or so.
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |