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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
4529
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Posted - 2015.03.08 10:50:05 -
[1] - Quote
Signed. Buy or sell the Labour of a person, not the person.
"You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions."
"Only a killer would know that..."
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
4529
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Posted - 2015.03.08 12:19:57 -
[2] - Quote
I was referring to the Capsuleer market, of course. What our allies (and enemies) get up to in their sovereign space is a matter for them.
"You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions."
"Only a killer would know that..."
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
4533
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Posted - 2015.03.09 12:55:18 -
[3] - Quote
Red Khalmer wrote:I will never sign such a treaty and I encourage any people supporting the matari to do the same.
This "proposal" is not Because The Amarr are merciful to the slaves, no. Its Their greed to monopolize the Slave market for their own gain. The ignorant PIE speaks such nice words about how they will make it so the Blood cults wont aquire slaves from the market. But we all know that some of the Blood fanatics work with the IC14 and most likely have access to slaves anyway. Either through SCC like now or through the empire. If they would really care about the well being of the slaves they would have been freed a long time ago. But their wicked lies will continue aslong as we dont do anything about it.
Freedom to the Matari people! Death to all slavers and betrayers!
Out of interest...
You do realise this has nothing to do with slavery, per se? This is to do with the presence of slaves, often an illegal commodity, on the SCC market both within and outside of Amarr. Within the Empire, Holders are going to continue to do what they do and it's highly unlikely that the likes of us will affect them. Separate discussion.
"You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions."
"Only a killer would know that..."
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
4534
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Posted - 2015.03.10 15:12:23 -
[4] - Quote
Siddhar Gangari wrote:This petition is without claws. The Ammar will never restrict it's peoples' access to slaves; their frail civilization would slowly avalanche into total collapse.
Try developing your reading comprehension. This petition is to cease the sale of slaves on the SCC. It has nothing to do with the Amarr at all - Concord would make the decision and the SCC would enforce it through the simple step.of delisting the commodities in question.
"You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions."
"Only a killer would know that..."
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
Multicultural F1 Brigade
4549
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Posted - 2015.03.10 20:06:35 -
[5] - Quote
Alizebeth Amalath wrote:Samira Kernher wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Siddhar Gangari wrote:This petition is without claws. The Ammar will never restrict it's peoples' access to slaves; their frail civilization would slowly avalanche into total collapse. Try developing your reading comprehension. This petition is to cease the sale of slaves on the SCC. It has nothing to do with the Amarr at all - Concord would make the decision and the SCC would enforce it through the simple step.of delisting the commodities in question. No, Pieter, it's not that. It's to get Amarr authorities to make organizations like the Civic Court and Ammatar Consulate remove their standard sell orders from the SCC, and return to conducting their trade of slaves to local planetside markets only. Samira is correct. This is in relation to the Greater Amarrian organizations. I personally would not be upset if all slaves were removed from the SCC market, but that is not what this is about.
Huh. Looks like my reading is faulty, then. I should probably rescind my support, this sounds like a purely internal Amarr matter.
"You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions."
"Only a killer would know that..."
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
Multicultural F1 Brigade
4555
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Posted - 2015.03.21 19:41:25 -
[6] - Quote
Astera Zandraki wrote:
Why don't you ask the people who live there to pass judgement in that?
Hang on, just let me ethnically cleanse whole districts and ship in freighter loads of good Forge district families and THEN we'll take that vote.
You know. Like the Federation did.
"You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions."
"Only a killer would know that..."
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
Multicultural F1 Brigade
4566
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Posted - 2015.03.26 03:40:14 -
[7] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:Dailar Toralen wrote: And where would your Empire be without us, hm? You would have lost the war already, and destroyed without the State. It is better to lose with grace than to win without. God will look upon those whose victory was carried by the lies of the Deceiver, and He will find them wanting.
It is always better to win. And many of your people agree with me - from the MIO to the Imperial Family the godless heathens and worse that you have been so vocal in opposition to are now celebrated as decorated Imperial war heroes.
I find it particularly interesting that the 24th Imperial Crusade has decided that my service and that of my thrice-notorious kirjuun is equally pleasing in the eyes of the Empress. Whilst your officers can't get through a simple dinner without spitting on their allies and won't even let you fly in the same organisation as their august selves, the Crusade deems us fit to fly in the same militia, occupy the same ranks and even awarded us the same medal as pure-blooded Amarrians.
Does that sting a little?
"You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions."
"Only a killer would know that..."
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
Multicultural F1 Brigade
4763
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Posted - 2015.05.01 18:35:22 -
[8] - Quote
Winter Archipelago wrote:Hmph. I definitely do not sign.
Crew are far too expensive, especially when they know they'll be going into a wormhole, where surviving a ship's destruction is often a worse fate than dying with it.
A few hundred slaves and the necessary Vitoc and antidote are far cheaper, even when the slaves have been through the rigorous training necessary for use on Capsuleer ships, than trying to replace more worthwhile crews.
I would also add that the use of slaves greatly reduces the risk of some planet-dweller or station-walker from getting the notion in their head for revenge. The first few assassination attempts may have been humorous, but after that, it just becomes a nuisance.
I never have a problem getting volunteers. Perhaps it's a problem of charisma?
"You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions."
"Only a killer would know that..."
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
Multicultural F1 Brigade
4765
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Posted - 2015.05.03 09:58:21 -
[9] - Quote
Politics is the art of the possible. Khanid II has been quite clear about expanding his 'stock' of slaves. I understand some people make good money selling POWs, criminals and the like to the more unscrupulous of the Khanid slaver rings.
I'm sure Jamyl would exert her will, if she thought Khanid would take the public order hit that denying his Lords slaves would cause him. But he can't, so he won't, so she won't. That doesn't speak to what anybody wants.
"You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions."
"Only a killer would know that..."
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
Multicultural F1 Brigade
4769
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Posted - 2015.05.04 14:48:55 -
[10] - Quote
Arnulf Ogunkoya wrote:Still I like the idea of taking slaves off the market so that the crazier bits of the capsuleer community can't easily get them in order to torment them.
Yeah. This is my main motivation. My secondary motivation for signing is that slavery is supposed to be prohibited outside of very special circumstances and only in Amarr space. It goes against the grain to paint a trade illegal and then provide an infrastructure framework for it.
"You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions."
"Only a killer would know that..."
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
Multicultural F1 Brigade
4796
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Posted - 2015.05.08 00:56:30 -
[11] - Quote
Soren Tyrhanos wrote:Max Singularity wrote:Induced unintended consequences in chaotic systems of purpose have many outcomes. The snowball has started rolling down the hill. You did this. What she and the other proponents of this thread have done is bring to light an issue that is a result of a degradation of traditional values that negatively impacts the lives of the slaves whom our Holder's should be cultivating as potential converts to the Faith. Freeing these slaves without them having achieved the fundamental purpose of their servitude benefits no one foremost, amongst the concerned parties, the slaves themselves. The Republic can barely economically sustain their own people let alone billions of slaves, the Federation wouldn't want to, and even the Caldari I am sure would struggle under their weight.
The Caldari would decline the opportunity to struggle under their weight. They're not OUR slaves, after all and doesn't freedom suggest some degree of responsibility for their own fate? Anything else and they would just be changing masters and collars...
"You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions."
"Only a killer would know that..."
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
Multicultural F1 Brigade
4796
|
Posted - 2015.05.08 06:38:05 -
[12] - Quote
Soren Tyrhanos wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Soren Tyrhanos wrote:Max Singularity wrote:Induced unintended consequences in chaotic systems of purpose have many outcomes. The snowball has started rolling down the hill. You did this. What she and the other proponents of this thread have done is bring to light an issue that is a result of a degradation of traditional values that negatively impacts the lives of the slaves whom our Holder's should be cultivating as potential converts to the Faith. Freeing these slaves without them having achieved the fundamental purpose of their servitude benefits no one foremost, amongst the concerned parties, the slaves themselves. The Republic can barely economically sustain their own people let alone billions of slaves, the Federation wouldn't want to, and even the Caldari I am sure would struggle under their weight. The Caldari would decline the opportunity to struggle under their weight. They're not OUR slaves, after all and doesn't freedom suggest some degree of responsibility for their own fate? Anything else and they would just be changing masters and collars... I care not how your people would attempt to bear their weight only point that that who beyond the Amarr are willing AND capable enough to do so?
Does it matter? The truth is that only those with a plan to support them after release have the moral mandate to demand that release. The Federation could probably manage to find the resources, but I'm certain they wouldn't enjoy what it would do to their standard of living. Our Ushra friends claim that they would make the Empire fund that support as reparations, but they claim this whilst having no real plan for gaining the political or military capital to enforce such a resolution. They also ignore the fact that the release of slaves itself would break the Empire in the short term and they would have no ability to make reparations whilst simultaneously rebuilding their economy.
In any case, this discussion is about removing slaves as a tradeable commodity on the SCC market and not about abolition. Frankly, I find the practice needlessly demeaning and completely counter to Heiian - but it's not my practice and it isn't my place to tell you how to run your society.
"You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions."
"Only a killer would know that..."
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