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Torik
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Posted - 2003.10.30 20:01:00 -
[1]
One of the major problems EVE has is that it is not really suited for casual players.
The first problem is the amount of 'dead time' in the game. Whether it's mininig, hauling or even camping there are long periods of time where you do nothing of substance. If you only have an hour or two a day to play, you are not going to accomplish much.
Second the large death penalties mean that while a hardcore gamer might lose a weeks of work when his/her ship gets blown up, a casual player might lose a month's worth.
The main problem this creates for EVE is that a game like this needs casual players to sustain it. Harcore players alone are not enough to keep something like this going.
Ultimately, EVE's biggest flaw is that it is a harcore game that pretends to be playable by casual players. This of course makes no one happy.
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Ctrl
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Posted - 2003.10.30 20:18:00 -
[2]
I'm happy, guess I should change my name to noone
______________________
I liek eating crayons
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Veruna Caseti
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Posted - 2003.10.30 20:24:00 -
[3]
Of all MMORPGs out there, EVE is by a far stretch the most friendly to casual players, yet still we get complaints like this.
The game already trains for you while you're not online, do you want it to mine and hunt NPCs while you sleep too?
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
Rohann
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Posted - 2003.10.30 20:55:00 -
[4]
Dood if you want something else to keep you busy or entertained try this....get teamspeak and get your corp using it. It makes the game ten times better and is way more fun.
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Nariko Tenrai
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Posted - 2003.10.30 21:10:00 -
[5]
This is all just my opinion, and you're encouraged to disagree. I'm somewhat jaded on this subject. ^_^
EVE is hardly alone in this. There are no MMPs for casual players, though virtually all of them give lip service to the principle. IMO, designing an MMP to appeal to casual players is a fool's errand; they can get their hour of gameplay in a title that they don't shell out $13 a month for. Casual players do short round online games like BF1942. Hardcore players do MMPs.
EVE does have a big obstacle to hour-play gamers. Most other MMPs have short group "quests" in non-PvP areas. That may be a mission in SWG or AO, a dungeon crawl in EQ or AC, or a literal quest in DAoC. The point is that in those games, there are places you know you can go for rewarding quick fix gameplay with a handful of friends. EVE doesn't have an equivalent. Agent Missions are solo and cookie-cutter. Pirate spawns in empire space can be cleared with ease by one or two people.
As for death penalties, unless you're flying a battleship or carrying a wad of BPs in your hold, I actually think the death penalties are too tame for a PvP-oriented game. If you have a good clone and sufficient insurance, there's typically no penalty at all.
 Quote:
Ultimately, EVE's biggest flaw is that it is a harcore game that pretends to be playable by casual players. This of course makes no one happy.
If you want to see a game designed with casual players in mind, examine Asheron's Call 2. You'll quickly note that despite bigger financial backing and a non-rookie dev team, it has far fewer players than EVE. The mythical "casual players" never came, and it bored the more hardcore AC1 fanbase. Therefore, my experience argue the inverse; that a casual game in a hardcore genre makes no one happy.
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I have measured and described the stars, their great and countless multitude. What man has seen their revolutions and entrances? Not even the angels see their number, yet I have recorded all their names.
- The Book of the Secrets of Enoch, Jewish Pseudepigrapha
We won't talk about how many cruisers I lost this weekend, nor how many nice railguns, or T2 enhancers. We're going to skip right over that. We're going to talk about my new Raven. It is like flying a small city, and the city's only export is missiles.
- Azeraphel |
Carp Riddell
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Posted - 2003.10.30 21:46:00 -
[6]
I think part of the problem with Eve for casual players is earning large amounts of money solo takes a lot of time spent on low-skill, low-interest activities.
Personally I think the predictable nature of mining income has gone a long way to making Eve a non-casual game. From a get-the-calculator-out standpoint, the sensible way to get that battleship is to mine, mine, mine...and that's not what the hour a day player is looking for. If there was a more entertaining way to earn a good living then I'm sure it'd be more casual-player friendly.
- Carp Riddell
- CEO, Innsmouth Shipping
- Proud Member of Curse Alliance
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Sylvius
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Posted - 2003.10.30 21:52:00 -
[7]
Agent missions. Casual players can easily run agent missions and make a good living doing it.
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Carp Riddell
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Posted - 2003.10.30 22:01:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Carp Riddell on 30/10/2003 22:02:20
Quote:
Agent missions. Casual players can easily run agent missions and make a good living doing it.
I certainly wouldn't disagree that you can make a good living from them, but it's not exactly casual. For L3 agents you're looking at 4 missions an hour tops. This works out at about 500k per hour from ISK rewards. You might then get an implant every 5-6 hours. The other problem with them is they're not exactly "fun".
It's still a long way behind mining (unless you're doing Ammatar missions at the moment).
- Carp Riddell
- CEO, Innsmouth Shipping
- Proud Member of Curse Alliance
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Luther Pendragon
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Posted - 2003.10.30 22:03:00 -
[9]
No one path is particularly fun. Doing a little bit of each is bareable though.
____________________________________
Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi!
*waves his hand in your face in the jedi way* |
Hikaru Okuda
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Posted - 2003.10.30 22:07:00 -
[10]
Casual gamers may not really care that much about rushing to get a battleship. Actually, with all the "I'm bored" posts, it might be the 23/7 style gamers (if that is what is meant by "hardcore" in this context) that Eve is "not for".
Anyway, I play to have fun. Sometimes I can put in a lot of hours, sometimes not. It probably puts me in the middle of the casual/hardcore scale. And *gasp* I do like to occasionally play something else.
Anyway, I can fly a battleship, but I don't. It's easy for me to replace cruisers, so I stick to them. As I gradually make more ISK I may fly a battleship more, but for now I have fun just doing what I do.
The rush to "teh ub3r" is not the only way to play. 
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Carp Riddell
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Posted - 2003.10.30 22:09:00 -
[11]
Not complaining personally - am able to run missions in the background during the day whilst working, thereby leaving evenings free for non-financial pursuits (says he who's working in the evening today).
- Carp Riddell
- CEO, Innsmouth Shipping
- Proud Member of Curse Alliance
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Carp Riddell
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Posted - 2003.10.30 22:22:00 -
[12]
Quote:
Anyway, I can fly a battleship, but I don't. It's easy for me to replace cruisers, so I stick to them. As I gradually make more ISK I may fly a battleship more, but for now I have fun just doing what I do.
Given that you have a battleship, you must play for more than a few hours a week 
- Carp Riddell
- CEO, Innsmouth Shipping
- Proud Member of Curse Alliance
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Hikaru Okuda
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Posted - 2003.10.30 22:34:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Hikaru Okuda on 30/10/2003 22:56:17
@Carp
Heh. Well I said I can fly one, not that I actually have one at the moment. (Though when loaned to me for an op I will fly them)
But yes, I do get to play more than a few hours a week.
I take some steps to keep from getting too "sucked in" to the game. I have to eat and sleep some too... Oh, and work.
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Naz Farooq
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Posted - 2003.10.30 22:47:00 -
[14]
I disagree. My thoughts are that Eve is not suited for folks new to MMOG's, it's much friendlier towards folks who have an idea of how things 'work' in a MMOG. But personally I quit Ultima Online because I didn't have the time to get online, train for an hour (during the 'power hour' where you got increased returns on skill training) then go have fun. The Eve skill training, more than anything else, makes it easy for the casual player to take some time off. For example, I haven't been on for a couple days because I'm slammed with work but I'm still training Drones V and that makes me happy. I don't think I'll be getting a Battleship anytime remotely soon, but I still have fun when I'm online.
Sure, everyone supports saving Einstein's brain, but when you put it in the body of a Great White Shark, suddenly you've "gone too far". |
IZON
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Posted - 2003.10.30 23:17:00 -
[15]
Quote:
One of the major problems EVE has is that it is not really suited for casual players.
The first problem is the amount of 'dead time' in the game. Whether it's mininig, hauling or even camping there are long periods of time where you do nothing of substance. If you only have an hour or two a day to play, you are not going to accomplish much.
Second the large death penalties mean that while a hardcore gamer might lose a weeks of work when his/her ship gets blown up, a casual player might lose a month's worth.
The main problem this creates for EVE is that a game like this needs casual players to sustain it. Harcore players alone are not enough to keep something like this going.
Ultimately, EVE's biggest flaw is that it is a harcore game that pretends to be playable by casual players. This of course makes no one happy.
Amen to that. This major oversight is slowly choking the game.
"...master! there's a guy in the south village called IZON, he is a Ninja!" |
Mabon
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Posted - 2003.10.30 23:35:00 -
[16]
I thought about this in relation to skill training, hardcore players training skills in a system designed for casual gamers ( http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=41136 ) It's very disappointing to not be able to advance yourself by actually playing the game rather than right click -> train to level 5 
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Rath Amon
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Posted - 2003.10.30 23:45:00 -
[17]
You're kidding about this, right? Eve is the casual player's dream game. You gain skillpoints when you're offline. The best ships in the game are very easy to get. You can buy every single item. You can buy almost every single skill. Every single character is basically identical so there are no class balance issues.
If anything this game is too accomodating.
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Ricardus
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Posted - 2003.10.30 23:47:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Ricardus on 30/10/2003 23:49:29
No MMOG is for Casual player.
I've just came from 2 years from EverQuest... if u wanted to see ToV u'd have the free atleast some 6 hours for the raid and since most of my guild was in USA time, it often meant that on Fridays to Saturdays i had to stay up until 6am.
Also if u belonged to a high lvl guild (and not even a UBER guild), you'd have to study the location of the raid, the mobs, how to attack them and how to defend against them.
And there were zones like Veeshan's Peak that once u entered it to a raid, yer only way out was killing the mobs in the path to the exit spot... u couldn't teleport out, gate out or anything... u had to win and that was that.
And i don't even want to think on Plane of Time that only few UBER guilds can go!!!
When ppl complain that EVE is not for the casual gamer and that it has a steep learning curve... weeell... i can only smile and try not think about some injuriative names to those complaining. :)
PS: I love the way that EVE lets me go eat my dinner in my dinning room instead of my desk in front of the PC cuz i can't leave a deep raid :)
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GraveDigger
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Posted - 2003.10.31 00:04:00 -
[19]
Quote:
You're kidding about this, right? Eve is the casual player's dream game. You gain skillpoints when you're offline. The best ships in the game are very easy to get. You can buy every single item. You can buy almost every single skill. Every single character is basically identical so there are no class balance issues.
If anything this game is too accomodating.
I agree totaly, casual gamer accomplish alot 24/7 by training skills.
In 6 months or less they will have a uber character to play with.
Things don't happen over night like most people want them too.
EVE is all about "serious Patience"
If you don't have that, you may as well not play MMORG's
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Paland
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Posted - 2003.10.31 00:28:00 -
[20]
I consider myself a casual gamer and this is also my first MMOG game. I can find plenty to do for an hour or two. Missions, Mining, Market, etc.. As long as I realize that I am not going to have a big ship for a while and can accept that 500K is a lot of money, then I can enjoy that.
I did finally join a corp so now things are changing. There can be a lot to do for the 2-3 hours that I am on.
Bottom line to me is: EVE can be a decent game for both a casual and a first timer.
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EVE of Destruction |
Xander Teg
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Posted - 2003.10.31 01:16:00 -
[21]
My situation is a little different. I started playing eve in the summer, while i had nothing better to do then play eve for several hours a day. During this time i managed the steep learning curve of the game. When the semester started, i was unable to play nearly as much, and during midterms i barely logged an hour of gametime. But now that i know the game and have a character with 4.2M skill points, the time i do log is very productive. I have no doubts that if i were to become a casual gamer eve would be very managable, esp since your characters progress continues while you are not playing.
_________________
"For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack."
-Rudyard Kipling
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Van Cleef
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Posted - 2003.10.31 01:32:00 -
[22]
Its really not skill points that allows you to progress in this game as much as ISK. Casual gamers are not as likely to amass the millions of dollars needed to purchase a crusier and have enough left over to replace it if something happens to it.
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