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Jump Queues - Needed but need fixing

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Belshamarothx	Posted - 2006.10.14 17:53:00 - [1] Ok, So I was travelling through an area of 0.0 and one gate in the route put me in a queue - for about 3mins. I warped away, got advisory saying jump would happen in 2mins counting down etc etc...warp back to gate and go through first time. Next system same thing happens warp to gate go to jump #3 in queue this time. 4 NPC rats on the gate sit there ignoring me. I'm mucking about deciding whether to wait to jump or warp away and back in again, and my shields start diappearing. Hmm, rats haven't got me locked, whats going on? OK shields gone, dammit warp away. Hmm warp? please.. ..oh look a Taranis, that wasn't there 30secs ago when my shields started going...end result no armor no struture. Nice ship though...40secs twiddling fingers, pod starts warping to the bookmark I aimed my Buzzard at (note without me telling it to). OK nice polite conversation with the Taranis pilot afterwards, advising me to petition it, as he saw me sat with 0 structure for 40secs too (not gunna mention his name - its not necessary) Now - no point petitioning as lag is unlikely to show in the logs and I'm not bothered either - the cov ops module he managed to loot (lucky man) worth more than the ship and everything else on it anyway, and wouldn't get returned to boot (and I can replace it so hey ho). So where am I going with this? Jump Queues are a necessary evil to prevent overloading nodes - I accept that. BUT - once you enter a jump queue you should be invulnerable and unable to do anything until you have jumped. (No warping away no shooting no repping - nothing, zip, zilch, nada) In other words it should be as if you had already jumped. Otherwise 0.0 travel (or Hi-sec travel under war or sui-gank conditions) becomes suicide. I can't see any reason why this shouldn't be the case, and code-wise, it should me relatively straightforward that the queue routine, routes into an immobile/invulnerable subscript as well. In an attempt to head of any flames, if the powers that be feel this should be in features and ideas, then please move as approriate.
Dane Hur Caldari DaHOOD Communication	Posted - 2006.10.14 18:21:00 - [2] Would be nice if you became cloaked, when in queue, maybe set a penalty on targeting if you break cloak.
spurious signal Caldari Brainiacs	Posted - 2006.10.14 18:22:00 - [3] Agreed. Jump queues effectively make low-sec unusable.
LordSlay Them Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.14 18:28:00 - [4] Edited by: LordSlay Them on 14/10/2006 18:33:22 2006.10.14 15:42 Victim: Belshamarothx Alliance: NONE Corp: Call Of The Wild Destroyed: Buzzard System: L-TS8S Security: 0.0 Involved parties: Name: Count Rayken (laid the final blow) Security: 0.4 Alliance: Imperial Republic Of the North Corp: Synergy. Ship: Taranis Weapon: Light Neutron Blaster II Destroyed items: Barton Reactor Capacitor Recharger I ECM - Multispectral Jammer II ECM - Multispectral Jammer II Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters I'm the main of count rayken, i killed him. * Am I angry he died? Yes. * Have you ever met this man before 15:42 eve time on october 14th? No. Was the man in question Neutral? Yes. Do you run off an NBSI policy? Yes. When you fired, did he attempt to retaliate, or warp away to avoid action? No. IMO it seemed as if he were experianceing major lag, as was I. Did you experiance any lag before, during, or after the action? On all three counts, yes. Did you confront the pilot about the lag issue? Yes. Did you yourself also get put in jump Queue before engaging? Yes, i have the logs to prove it. Would you be ***ed if you were the pilot of the enemy ship and were engaged in the same manner you attacked this man today? Yes, i'm mad now and i'm the one who killed him. He had 2 WCS (not out of cowardice imo, but because the man was flying a cov ops ship, scouting prolly, and should hav warped away from my 1 20k wapr disruptor, but because of lag / jump queue ...could not) I saw him sit there a good 30-40 sec after it said his ship exploded...watching his ship... then his pod pops up and warps away. I feel sorry for the guy. This should not have happened. End of story. "But Lord!!11 You loted a cov ops cloak off of him! WTF would you be abgry for, you should be happy mate!!!" Why am I angry? I'm angry cause what he says is rite. I have had 2 conversations (friendly man tbh) with him, and we both agree HE SHOULD NOT HAVE DIED. I should not have been able to shoot him. His plan sounds wonderful, and imo is needed badly atm. My alliance mates down south lost 2 recons and a hac only minutes after this happned to the same problem. There are certain things wrong in this game, some small, some big. THIS IS A BIG ONE. Devs, fix it plz, posts like this are not needed, i think everyone will agree the jump queue is just stupid. I get free cov ops cloaks off it and i think its stupid. Anyone reading this think to yourselves ask yourselves this question..., how would you have felt were you the pilot of that cov ops ships and had this happen to you? Let the devs know how you feel about this, and why, they are here to help you.
Belshamarothx	Posted - 2006.10.14 18:33:00 - [5] Originally by: LordSlay Them 2006.10.14 15:42 Stuff. Thanks - to any concerned, I have no probs with the killmail being here, other than feeling a bit sheepish about it You know what makes it worse? the other side of the gate was a sabre with a warp bubble got home quick
LordSlay Them Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.14 18:43:00 - [6] Just wanted to prove it was really me that did it and was not a fake poster. Sorry for any embarresment <--( did i spell that rite? )caused
Phrixus Zephyr Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.10.14 18:43:00 - [7] I've lost and killed an enyo the same way. + Claw +various other ships not worth naming. Stupid, stupid bug(feature).
Githtakai	Posted - 2006.10.14 19:54:00 - [8] I won't fly T2 ships in low sec until this is fixed. nope! It's too much pain and bother to put together an impressive setup, go out looking for some exciting PVP, and then just have your ship go "poof" due to a bug/feature that can't be predicted. You can lose a week of play this way (refit and shopping time).
Belshamarothx	Posted - 2006.10.14 19:54:00 - [9] Originally by: LordSlay Them Just wanted to prove it was really me that did it and was not a fake poster. Sorry for any embarresment <--( did i spell that rite? )caused None caused..well not here anyway..was a bit earlier tho..hehe. No one else have any thoughts on this then?
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.10.14 19:59:00 - [10] keep the therads up tho atm things are as they are.
Julia Reave	Posted - 2006.10.14 21:52:00 - [11] IMHO queues are NOT a necessary evil. If the game had decent realtime loadbalancing and the ability to run a system on more than one node, queues were unnecessary.
Gabriel Karade Office linebackers Blood of the Innocents	Posted - 2006.10.14 22:04:00 - [12] It is a very annoying feature, trying to use some gates in 0.0 can be like rolling a dice. ---------- - Office Linebacker -
Dahak2150	Posted - 2006.10.14 23:05:00 - [13] Yeah, if they're going to keep queues around (which in themselves are bad) they should at least not screw over the person in the queue. No reason not to. ---------- My sig is boring.
zuppy2020 Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E	Posted - 2006.10.15 00:04:00 - [14] Originally by: Belshamarothx I warped away, got advisory saying jump would happen in 2mins counting down etc etc...warp back to gate and go through first time. If you see the jump queue message, you just have to click over and over and over again the jump button. Eventually it will work and you don't really need to warp to a different spot and the warp back.
Murtac	Posted - 2006.10.15 00:08:00 - [15] /signed
Belshamarothx	Posted - 2006.10.15 00:11:00 - [16] Originally by: zuppy2020 Originally by: Belshamarothx I warped away, got advisory saying jump would happen in 2mins counting down etc etc...warp back to gate and go through first time. If you see the jump queue message, you just have to click over and over and over again the jump button. Eventually it will work and you don't really need to warp to a different spot and the warp back. Erm thx for the tip...i did try that..just felt my post was getting long enough as it was without giving every little detail. However...I warped away...I should not then have got the "you are cleared to jump ..blah blah" message after I had left the gate area (bug? lag? I don't know - and I don't have logs of it so no point bugreporting it) Also its not really the point of the post..which is, once you are in the jump queue - you should be removed from the game arena until you enter the next system. That is no one can shoot you and you can't shoot them etc etc. While I think of it..if anyone thinks.."well with a queue, you get to change your mind" - you shouldn't..you've already committed to jump..you don't get to cancel it.
Hesod Adee	Posted - 2006.10.15 00:30:00 - [17] Originally by: Dane Hur Would be nice if you became cloaked, when in queue, maybe set a penalty on targeting if you break cloak. When someone is waiting in the jump queue, why allow them to decloak at all ? Once you click jump, you ship should remian invincible and out of your control till you reach the next system. ----------------- My door is always open, just don't go in.
Belshamarothx	Posted - 2006.10.15 00:44:00 - [18] Originally by: Hesod Adee Originally by: Dane Hur Would be nice if you became cloaked, when in queue, maybe set a penalty on targeting if you break cloak. When someone is waiting in the jump queue, why allow them to decloak at all ? Once you click jump, you ship should remian invincible and out of your control till you reach the next system. Yup, exactly what I'm proposing
Barwinius Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.15 00:49:00 - [19] Edited by: Barwinius on 15/10/2006 00:51:36 Originally by: Hesod Adee Originally by: Dane Hur Would be nice if you became cloaked, when in queue, maybe set a penalty on targeting if you break cloak. When someone is waiting in the jump queue, why allow them to decloak at all ? Once you click jump, you ship should remian invincible and out of your control till you reach the next system. I really like this idea but question what would happen if you crashed during the jump. Which system would you go to? The one you jumped from?
DrAtomic Polytope Ghosts of Retribution	Posted - 2006.10.15 00:49:00 - [20] Lag was horrendous all day in O-N8, LT, Mi60-6 (pure Blind)... Same area this happened... This area of PB has been laggy since Dragon was deployed. Jump queues are the devil... :/ ----------------------------------------------- The BIG Lottery
DrAtomic Polytope Ghosts of Retribution	Posted - 2006.10.15 00:51:00 - [21] Originally by: Barwinius Edited by: Barwinius on 15/10/2006 00:50:05 Originally by: Hesod Adee Originally by: Dane Hur Would be nice if you became cloaked, when in queue, maybe set a penalty on targeting if you break cloak. When someone is waiting in the jump queue, why allow them to decloak at all ? Once you click jump, you ship should remian invincible and out of your control till you reach the next system. I really like this idea but question what would happen if you crashed during the jump. Where would you go? To the system you jumped from? Emergency warp out when logging back in imo (on the side you were jumping from). ----------------------------------------------- The BIG Lottery
Belshamarothx	Posted - 2006.10.15 00:53:00 - [22] Originally by: Barwinius Edited by: Barwinius on 15/10/2006 00:50:05 . I really like this idea but question what would happen if you crashed during the jump. Where would you go? To the system you jumped from? Well; for my mind you should re-log into the system you intended to jump to...afterall before queues thats where you would have been. Or stuck and have to petition it..but I guess ultimately the Devs would have to decide that one, if they implement the solution.
Goca Minmatar Steel Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.15 00:57:00 - [23] same here, jump to a gate no traffic advisory listed on map ... in a shuttle with instas.. get to gate click on gate "in queue #2", bads guys at gate, try to warp off.. nothing, try to get anywhere.. nothing. boom podded, try to warp out with pod, nope, can't move, can't go through gate, boom dead.. bye bye implants, ******* A... best part queue runs out while I'm in clone station, awesome work CCP, keep it up.. I is Goca
Jago X	Posted - 2006.10.15 01:19:00 - [24] Edited by: Jago X on 15/10/2006 01:24:59 Originally by: Belshamarothx Originally by: Hesod Adee Originally by: Dane Hur Would be nice if you became cloaked, when in queue, maybe set a penalty on targeting if you break cloak. When someone is waiting in the jump queue, why allow them to decloak at all ? Once you click jump, you ship should remian invincible and out of your control till you reach the next system. Yup, exactly what I'm proposing The reason its the way it is atm is that if you were to get stuck at a gate in a jump que, by the time you got automatically jumped through to the other side it could have become camped ... infact something similar happened to me taking a ship through syndicate recently ... i scouted the far side of a gate with my alt and it was clear .. got stuck in a jump que so long that an interdictor bubble and 10 hostiles arrived at the far side. Ofc i didnt realise at the time that you could just warp away while your waiting so i just sat there with my autopilot on waiting to jump through Jago
Belshamarothx	Posted - 2006.10.15 13:35:00 - [25] Edited by: Belshamarothx on 15/10/2006 13:37:56 Edited by: Belshamarothx on 15/10/2006 13:36:54 Originally by: Jago X Edited by: Jago X on 15/10/2006 01:24:59 Originally by: Belshamarothx Originally by: Hesod Adee Originally by: Dane Hur Would be nice if you became cloaked, when in queue, maybe set a penalty on targeting if you break cloak. When someone is waiting in the jump queue, why allow them to decloak at all ? Once you click jump, you ship should remian invincible and out of your control till you reach the next system. Yup, exactly what I'm proposing The reason its the way it is atm is that if you were to get stuck at a gate in a jump que, by the time you got automatically jumped through to the other side it could have become camped ... infact something similar happened to me taking a ship through syndicate recently ... i scouted the far side of a gate with my alt and it was clear .. got stuck in a jump que so long that an interdictor bubble and 10 hostiles arrived at the far side. Ofc i didnt realise at the time that you could just warp away while your waiting so i just sat there with my autopilot on waiting to jump through Jago But that could have happened before queus were introduced. If they target system took the same lenght of time to load as you now spend in queue. The problem on the jump out side has only arisen because of queues. Also see above post - where I say once you've committed to jump you shouldn't get a cancel option.
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2006.10.15 13:54:00 - [26] what sucks is when you get Queued for jumps between systems with almost no population in them.
Fiber II	Posted - 2006.10.15 14:28:00 - [27] Just a question, if an alliance/corp sets 10-20 members in a system that let's say cause lag there and the other group also about 10 persons go to the neighbouring system and gate camp the gate that leads there. well then comes player A tryign to get thru that gate bnut hey wtf? I am in queu... oeps poef! Player B jumps in queu poef an so on... I am not sure about the lag causing in the destination system but I deff run in to a ****load of camps where I couldnt jump thru simply cause I got in to queu and started orbiting the friggin gate...and by the time u realize that and try to warp u pretty much get ganked bya squad... So simply put, what's the remedie to this? if u ask me this is simply another exploit that piurates can easily use and gank anyone until someone puts a force to stopem.
Bonafyde The Legion.	Posted - 2006.10.15 14:46:00 - [28] Not but 30 minutes ago I was jumped queue'd. Sitting on a gate in a sniper stinks. Worst part is, I get into the system, and theres only 2 people there. (and I was the only one trying to get in)
Belshamarothx	Posted - 2006.10.15 16:52:00 - [29] Originally by: Bonafyde Not but 30 minutes ago I was jumped queue'd. Sitting on a gate in a sniper stinks. Worst part is, I get into the system, and theres only 2 people there. (and I was the only one trying to get in) Hi, I'm not intending this thread to become a debate about why we need jump queues. Although an explanation for your situation is that due to low numbers in the system, the system was sharing a node with another high volume system, meaning the node was already close to 95% ( ithink is the figure). This is intended to be about what happens to a pilot when they enter a queue - and the proposal that they should be placed in a "cloak" or similar state unable to interact with or be targetted etc by others.
eveplayer11	Posted - 2006.10.15 18:40:00 - [30] Edited by: eveplayer11 on 15/10/2006 18:41:00 i too think CCP should start thinking about making a auto-load balancing feature in their code for balancing nodes and changing nodes this stuff has been done in other games, however can it be done to be fast enough to handle EvE? i believe these autoload things happen slow, but still it would improve stabillety greatly. and can EvEs server structure/code etc support sutch a feature? i believe if CCP wants it they can do it wouldnt suprice me if they looked into doing it several times or tried it. if they abandoned it i would like to know why, if they havent looked up or tried doing this then i would like to know why not edit: if the system is to stay as it is now, having the ship cloak while in queue is excellent. and some kind of penalty so you cant use it to sit and wait for targets.

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