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Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
841
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Posted - 2015.03.13 11:45:02 -
[1] - Quote
Background:
==========
It's been a while since the release of the Nestor. At the time there was some scepticism that this hull would see use in Eve. For the sake of transparency, I was one of those who struggled to see a niche for it's many but seemingly uncoordinated bonuses, although I do from time to time seek to find a way to justify buying one.
Time has passed and the market has had time to stabilise. Players have had time to think of roles.
The sister ships have seen enthusiastic uptake. There are on average 200 sales of an Astero per day in Jita, 100 per day for the Stratios. The Nestor by comparison sells approximately 15 hulls per day.
My 4-years experience in Eve is that of living in w-space and being a visitor in other people's nullsec and w-space systems. These environments give rise to some requirements in one's ship when operating alone or with say, one wingman:
Stealth - the ability to traverse a camp of either a wormhole or a gate
Utility - sufficient power to do something once you've got past the danger.
Fitness for Purpose:
================
Of course the Astero and Stratios have both of these. The Astero is a perfect relic-hunter and forward scout. Covert movements, scanning and archeology bonuses, a strong hull, plenty of mid and low slots and the ability to field 100dps of drone power makes it versatile - a real favourite.
The Stratios is similarly useful - hugely strong, good firepower, scanning, stealth. 5 mid-slots AND an armour tank - wow! Good for PVP and PVE.
The Nestor has so much potential. A pair of them would be great for clearing 0.0 pirate complexes, high-end sleeper relics and so on. In effect they have similar utility to a pair of remote-rep Dominix or rattlesnake, while being stronger and having some offensive capability if engaged. It even has the ability to efficiently scan down the sites in the first place.
However, what the Nestor lacks is the other half of the puzzle - the ability to actually get into the destination system. It's a battleship - slow, easy to lock, a sitting duck on gates and wormholes. It cannot move.
It seems to me that this one failing is the most decisive in causing the lack of uptake of this ship.
Understanding History:
==================
Now I do understand the dev team's position in that to give the Nestor covops ability would make it strategically very powerful. That might be true if it was able to achieve a target lock within 10 seconds of landing (5 with rigs). I agree that this could be construed as unwarranted power-creep (I actually don't subscribe to this position, but let's leave that for now).
A neat solution?:
=============
But what if the Nestor had the ability to use a covops cloak, but suffered a 60-second targeting delay upon re-appearance?
This would make it somewhat less useful as a covert fleet logistics ship, but would give it the ability to move from system to system in small numbers in order to do PVE.
With this small tweak, it becomes a compelling choice for people who like co-operative 'exploration'-style operation but who like to do more than hack cans and run away. A pair can now slip covertly from one wormhole to the next, hack cans, take on sleeper signatures, find pirate escalations and so on. The opportunity for emergent play increases without the danger of fleet-based power-creep.
I would very much like to hear a considered response to this proposal by the dev team. The Nestor is a beautiful-looking ship and completes a wonderfully conceived line of sisters ships. But the rattlesnake is out-selling it at a rate of 8:1.
"Save the Nestor!"
Many thanks for reading.
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
4043
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Posted - 2015.03.13 11:48:40 -
[2] - Quote
This thread has been moved to Features & Ideas Discussion.
ISD Ezwal
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Lloyd Roses
904
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Posted - 2015.03.13 12:05:14 -
[3] - Quote
The Nestor's bonuses boil down to insane RR-capability and it's SMA coupled to a hull that fits into c1 space. Once you got two Nestors to work with, discussing a fit pinned down beyond the rig choice is not necessary.
As for bringing a solo Nestor to basically anything, it's your 3rd, 4th, 5th and sometimes 6th guardian depending on whether you run 4-2 guards or double trimarked ones. As a logistics platform, this ship is so over the top with that combination of resists, hp and abundant midslots resulting in medium tripledigit Sensor Strength it's just not funny anymore.
Currently, this ship already offers 4 strong upsides, 2 of them unique. Armorresists, Drone damage and then a SMA and remote repair bonuses that are usable (unlike T3s tbh). The other stuff is just for fun. And you can park 2 nestors in the middle of a superior sleeper cache and tank the shockwaves. The gankers usually cannot.
The Nestor is terrible on its own, but for a small group of adept pilots it can be anything from a blessing to the sickest force multiplier they can field. The issue of *needs loads of cap* can be overcome with either a Paladin feeding cap/second RR-boat for example, or a (talisman-)guardian/auguror close by.
And then it's probably not surprising that the premiere nullsec-afk-ratting ship is bought 8 times as much as a ship whose bonnuses only apply to smallgang pvp upwards. That's like being surprised more people buy ravens compared to scorpions.
The covops cloak would be absolutely over-the-top-broken-BBQwwtfuthinking. Etana atleast is a AT prize ship. Don't want it's big armortanked brother to be avaiable to all for a mere bil.
I GÖÑ Sleipnir
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Arthur Aihaken
X A X
4121
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Posted - 2015.03.13 12:08:46 -
[4] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:But what if the Nestor had the ability to use a covops cloak, but suffered a 60-second targeting delay upon re-appearance?
I like the idea. +1. Let's also not forget that the Nestor is now only marginally less than a T2 Marauder, and the most expensive Faction battleship at present.
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Lachesiss
nomnomnom MOAR BABIES
The Pursuit of Happiness
296
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Posted - 2015.03.13 12:15:51 -
[5] - Quote
I like your idea OP.
However I for myself haven't purchased one as I don't really want to fly a white bog brush around space
On the third day after your birth myself and my sister's will come to you and decide your fate.
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Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
843
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Posted - 2015.03.13 12:16:03 -
[6] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:
The covops cloak would be absolutely over-the-top-broken-BBQwwtfuthinking. Etana atleast is a AT prize ship. Don't want it's big armortanked brother to be avaiable to all for a mere bil.
Thanks for commenting Lloyd.
For clarity, I am not suggesting that the Nestor is a solo ship. I see it very much as a co-operative play.
The ability to field an SMA along with reps is indeed compelling if you already have a large, mobile squad with a number of guardians in it. Having said that, the nestor has some disadvantages in this role:
* it will arrive last
* it cannot move to follow the fight
* it has very limited remote repair range.
As I see it, the ability to covops-cloak in this scenario only hides the presence of the nestor itself, not the rest of the fleet containing the guardians. I am unconvinced that this represents a power multiplier.
I'm keen to understand what specifically it is about an essentially toned-down covops cloak that people fear would make the ship too powerful?
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Lloyd Roses
904
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Posted - 2015.03.13 12:39:35 -
[7] - Quote
The Nestor is not only strong when you got a big squad with guardians. You can pretty much fit a babyarchon and a nestor and you got a logistics wing that can tank between 6k and 10k ehp a second. Add to that for example a few lokis, an eos and a bhaalgorn and you suddenly got a 8 man fleet with a few thousand dps, serious neuting, beyond 10k ehp/s repped on those lokis, and unlike guarians only the nestor part is jammable but sitting at 260SS and a 450mm scanres. This is mean enough.
I can't quite say in which exact concrete way covops cloak would push them over the top, but let's use this analogy:
If the stratios wouldn't have a covops cloak, would you ever use one? Does it offer anything beyond a Navy Vexor? No, nothing but the cloak.
Now the Nestor is already beyond any alternative's performance, and not by a small margin. Having a ship, or for scalabilities sake a number of nestors warping around warped will mean that suddenly something decloaks next to you that
- deals BS level dps (say 800dps)
- has access to BS modules like heavy neuts/large smarts
- is so tough with it's friends it laughes at the (for shooting things fairly useless) proteus
- dat RR
So it would basically be the one-and-only, fly-this-or-gtfo ship to use. Because no other hull or combination of hulls will yield anything remotely similar to a bunch of Nestor's performance. Cloaky-RR-proteus with dps? 400dps with void. Cloaky-RR-Tengu? 250-350dps depending on launchers.
Nestors? Twice the money, twice the dps, twice the tank, 3 times the RR, no SP loss and they're not even heavier mass wise.
So ofc, you can put a covops cloak on there but then don't wonder if wormholes become nestors online in notime. They are strong already, with a covops cloak they'd be out of control, reducing the meaning of ship choice or strategic diversity to a matter of *do I have the 500mil more to buy a nestor instead of a proteus*.
I GÖÑ Sleipnir
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Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
844
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Posted - 2015.03.13 13:09:03 -
[8] - Quote
Thanks again for taking the time to post this.
I am struggling to understand how the presence of a Nestor in a fleet adds much more than say, another guardian in terms of remote repping power.
It is limited to 25km range, cannot move anywhere near as quickly and takes full damage from large weapons in a way that a guardian does not. In addition, it cannot meaningfully contribute the to the guardian cap chain, or generate sufficient cap to go without it - so surely it's a hindrance to the guardians?
Anecdotally, in w-space I have faced many fleets containing guardians - they are the norm, but never once encountered a fleet containing a Nestor as part of its logistics support.
I am not seeking to be controversial here. I simply have never seen a Nestor used in a fleet. Is there some gate-camp strategy that I am unaware of in which it's the correct ship?
On the subject of cost, I think we can avoid bringing that into any reasoning on utility. CCP can set the cost of a BPC anywhere they want in order to balance utility over risk.
Having said that, even with covops, I would think twice before replacing a guardian with a Nestor. I think it would compromise my fleet, not enhance it. I just cannot see how such an immobile logistics platform can be helpful - at least with logistics.
I can see how it would be helpful as a properly-mobile mobile fleet depot, and how it could help with hull repairing between encounters. But in a skirmish, the opposing fleet simply has to move the fight 30km in any direction to neutralise its logistics capabilities.
It seems to me that it's very much asking to be a PVE play for dangerous space (in a way that a marauder is manifestly not - it's too vulnerable to a single curse...)
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elitatwo
Eve Minions
Poopstain Removal Team
591
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Posted - 2015.03.13 14:53:58 -
[9] - Quote
Mournful dear,
if not a covert ops cloak, why not an improved one with the black ops speed while cloaked bonus instead?
The Nestor may not be fast as a machariel but she is highly mobile and can make a 180-¦ turn faster than any battleship I have ever flown.
Lloyd is right a covert ops cloak would make w-space Nestor online and that wouldn't be any fun.
Right now the Nestor has the problem of being a very expensive gang-boat and I wouldn't really mind if rogue drones would drop copies a tad more often than they drop those chips.
I really like that the other pirate faction ships got a lot more affordable than ever and they are used much more often. The same could happen for the Nestor and she will experience a nice pricetag-drop.
signature
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Rroff
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
949
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Posted - 2015.03.13 14:56:04 -
[10] - Quote
^^ I think his perspective was the paladin/nestor combination with the odd guardian - you've got a logistics core that has a pretty strong energy node and can tank upto a single dread with ease - you do need to build the fleet around the concept and its not cheap but a very strong setup with minimal players. |
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Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
844
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Posted - 2015.03.13 15:12:11 -
[11] - Quote
Thanks for the comments. I'll tackle them in turn, hopefully fairly.
elitatwo wrote:Mournful dear,
if not a covert ops cloak, why not an improved one with the black ops speed while cloaked bonus instead?
Because this won't get you past a camped wormhole, and it won't get you past an interceptor on a gate.
elitatwo wrote:
Lloyd is right a covert ops cloak would make w-space Nestor online and that wouldn't be any fun.
Respectfully, this is an assertion and not a fact.
elitatwo wrote:
Right now the Nestor has the problem of being a very expensive gang-boat and I wouldn't really mind if rogue drones would drop copies a tad more often than they drop those chips.
This would affect price, not utility.
elitatwo wrote:
I really like that the other pirate faction ships got a lot more affordable than ever and they are used much more often. The same could happen for the Nestor and she will experience a nice pricetag-drop.
I agree, I actually think that if the number of BPC-drops increased it would become the cheapest of all pirate ships, because of its limited role.
Rroff wrote:
@Mournful Conciousness - I think his perspective was the paladin/nestor combination with the odd guardian - you've got a logistics core that has a pretty strong energy node and can tank upto a single dread with ease - you do need to build the fleet around the concept and its not cheap but a very strong setup with minimal players.
That's fair, but the core of the fleet is still immobile, and outperformed by replacing the nestor and paladin with 2 carriers or 2 guardians.
Theoretically it's powerful, but how often do we actually see it, or think "man, if only the Nestor was 500m or had a covops cloak - I'd totally take that and a paladin in place of my 2 guardians"?
Respectfully, I think never.
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
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Rroff
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
949
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Posted - 2015.03.13 15:23:44 -
[12] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Theoretically it's powerful, but how often do we actually see it, or think "man, if only the Nestor was 500m or had a covops cloak - I'd totally take that and a paladin in place of my 2 guardians"?
Respectfully, I think never.
I think partly due to the paladin being incredibly specialised (a bit outside the box) and needing specific implants and lots of skills to pull off properly and thats just assuming he was meaning it from the perspective I'm aware of.
Covert ops on the nestor would work in w-space but hard to balance with k-space and vice versa I kind of think limited jump capabilities would make the nestor useful in k-space (or maybe just for my uses) but wouldn't be helpful for w-space use.
Some kind of trick MJD setup (i.e. instant activation) might work and kind of fits in its supposed role I dunno but again incredibly hard to balance. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
844
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 15:44:41 -
[13] - Quote
yes I agree, the limited covops idea is solely to overcome the gate and wormhole transition problems.
So... how about a module that opens up a parallel wormhole on the same grid as the one the nestor is near but somewhere between 50 and 100km from the exit, maximum mass of (say) 2 nestors, only sisters ships can get through it and lasts 10 seconds?
then scrap the covops cloak proposal.
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Schluffi Schluffelsen
State War Academy
Caldari State
37
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Posted - 2015.03.13 15:50:44 -
[14] - Quote
As someone who uses 2x Nestors quite often as a RR setup - I think the covops-ability would be too much of a buff.
The only thing I'd like to change about my Nestors is the remote cap range, buff that to 200% and I'll love you forever, otherwise it's fine as it is. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
844
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 15:53:31 -
[15] - Quote
Schluffi Schluffelsen wrote:As someone who uses 2x Nestors quite often as a RR setup - I think the covops-ability would be too much of a buff.
The only thing I'd like to change about my Nestors is the remote cap range, buff that to 200% and I'll love you forever, otherwise it's fine as it is.
Thanks for contributing. You're the first person I have met who actually claims to use the Nestor. I'm genuinely interested to learn what kind of space you operate in.
Do you use them in high-sec, one w-space system, your local 0-sec or in hostile space?
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
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FireFrenzy
Satan's Unicorns
269
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Posted - 2015.03.13 18:21:41 -
[16] - Quote
Spider nestors are MAD OP aslong as you can avoid getting bombed on... But i think PL has a TFI docterine that uses smarties to make themselves heavily bomb resistant... Might be a thing to try? |
Lugh Crow-Slave
868
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Posted - 2015.03.13 18:59:35 -
[17] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:Background:
However, what the Nestor lacks is the other half of the puzzle - the ability to actually get into the destination system. It's a battleship - slow, easy to lock, a sitting duck on gates and wormholes. It cannot move..
This is because unlike the strat and the astero it is a fleet support ship and so is not meant to be moving around alone
the nestor is one of the strongest faction battle ships in its element and no it does not need a cloak
also what was wrong with the rest of the nestor threads already open you could have posted in to keep people from needing to repeat themselves and others
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3?
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Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
850
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Posted - 2015.03.13 20:28:23 -
[18] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Mournful Conciousness wrote:Background:
However, what the Nestor lacks is the other half of the puzzle - the ability to actually get into the destination system. It's a battleship - slow, easy to lock, a sitting duck on gates and wormholes. It cannot move.. This is because unlike the strat and the astero it is a fleet support ship and so is not meant to be moving around alone the nestor is one of the strongest faction battle ships in its element and no it does not need a cloak also what was wrong with the rest of the nestor threads already open you could have posted in to keep people from needing to repeat themselves and others
If the Nestor is one of the strongest faction battleships, wouldn't it be reasonable to expect it to be one of the best sellers? The numbers suggest otherwise.
Forgive the duplicate thread, I didn't see the others. Are you saying that I'm not the only person to see a problem?
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
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Arthur Aihaken
X A X
4122
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Posted - 2015.03.13 20:30:49 -
[19] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:the nestor is one of the strongest faction battle ships in its element and no it does not need a cloak
Emphasis mine. So what exactly is its element then? It's certainly not high-sec PvE, and you never see these roaming around low-sec. The lack of a Covert Ops cloak precludes seriously consideration in wormhole space, so I'm just curious where it's one of the strongest faction battleships. It's certainly the most expensive...
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Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
237
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Posted - 2015.03.13 21:40:22 -
[20] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:
The covops cloak would be absolutely over-the-top-broken-BBQwwtfuthinking. Etana atleast is a AT prize ship. Don't want it's big armortanked brother to be avaiable to all for a mere bil.
One other thing to note, if CoV Ops Cloaking were added, the value more than likely would increase on the ship. |
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Arthur Aihaken
X A X
4124
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Posted - 2015.03.13 22:10:56 -
[21] - Quote
Petrified wrote:One other thing to note, if CoV Ops Cloaking were added, the value more than likely would increase on the ship.
Entirely possible. As it now stands, they could increase the BPC drop because it's selling quite a bit higher than the other Faction battleships.
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Gaan Cathal
Angry Mustellid
The Periphery
39
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Posted - 2015.03.14 02:57:35 -
[22] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
I am struggling to understand how the presence of a Nestor in a fleet adds much more than say, another guardian in terms of remote repping power.
It is limited to 25km range, cannot move anywhere near as quickly and takes full damage from large weapons in a way that a guardian does not. In addition, it cannot meaningfully contribute the to the guardian cap chain, or generate sufficient cap to go without it - so surely it's a hindrance to the guardians?
Anecdotally, in w-space I have faced many fleets containing guardians - they are the norm, but never once encountered a fleet containing a Nestor as part of its logistics support.
As someone who has flown in a fleet using a Nestor, it works. Fourteen Guardians and a Nestor, which back-of-the-napkin maths told us was approximately 18 Guardians effective. Cap is a nonissue once you have sufficient floating feed from the Guards. Range limitations force it to bunch up with the other Battleships but...it's a Battleship, it wouldn't keep up with the Guardians anyway.
Of course given the nature of Wormholes and mass, a Logistics Battleship best suited to scaling up Logi wings for medium-sized Battleship fleets is possibly not an ideal role for a SoE ship, but there we go. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
869
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Posted - 2015.03.14 11:02:56 -
[23] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:the nestor is one of the strongest faction battle ships in its element and no it does not need a cloak Emphasis mine. So what exactly is its element then? It's certainly not high-sec PvE, and you never see these roaming around low-sec. The lack of a Covert Ops cloak precludes seriously consideration in wormhole space, so I'm just curious where it's one of the strongest faction battleships. It's certainly the most expensive...
station games and low class WH where you can't fit a carrier
its use in station games is obvious both as neutral logi and a way to refit in space at the same time
in low class WH its reps are amazing and again its SMB lets fleets refit in fight letting ships (normally T3s) refit from full DPS to full tank once they have become primary to a logi role when the nestor(s) can't keep up
you don't need a cov ops cloak to move around you can take the sig penalty or remove a calnavy cloak if you have a sister nestor just before the fight. Can you be seen with it b4 you want to? yes you can that is a sacrifice you give up for its usefulness in a fight
as to why it is the most expensive this is mostly because of how good the stratios is and how high of a demand for it is out there
currently you get more ISK for your SOE LP buying and selling strats over the nestor so there are fewer nestors on the market
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3?
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Komodo Askold
No Code of Conduct
Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad
326
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Posted - 2015.03.14 12:23:29 -
[24] - Quote
Well, OP's idea is quite interesting. Finally one that is not about giving it a larger SMB or allow it to bridge.
I picture a possible alternative. What if it had the same cloaking capabilities of Black Ops? No covops cloak, but ability to move cloaked easily and instawarp.
In addition to either one of those, I'd swap the hacking bonus by it receiving bonus to shield RR too. Maybe it would help it on W-Space fleets, where one must adapt quickly to the environment. |
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
389
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Posted - 2015.03.14 12:49:07 -
[25] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:the rattlesnake is out-selling it at a rate of 8:1.
This is not a problem. The Rattlesnake is a PvE ship, while the Nestor is a PvP battleship. PvE ships tend to outsell PvP ships, but that does not mean that Nestor is not amazing in what it does. It sees a lot of use in armor fleets in wormholes. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
858
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Posted - 2015.03.14 17:10:48 -
[26] - Quote
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:Mournful Conciousness wrote:the rattlesnake is out-selling it at a rate of 8:1. This is not a problem. The Rattlesnake is a PvE ship, while the Nestor is a PvP battleship. PvE ships tend to outsell PvP ships, but that does not mean that Nestor is not amazing in what it does. It sees a lot of use in armor fleets in wormholes.
* I could have replaced the word 'rattlesnake' with any other pirate battleship. They all massively outsell the Nestor.
* I use the rattlesnake for PVP - it's pretty good! - dual XLASB, anti-frigate rapid lights and a buttload of gecko-hurt! It's a fantastic small gang flagship.
* I have never, ever seen a Nestor used in any pvp in any wormhole or low-sec system - and I go looking for trouble on an almost daily basis in wormholes and low-sec. I would be very happy if you could guide me to a cluster of systems where I am likely to see one in action.
In response to the previous post about the Nestor's price - the price of the Nestor is set solely by the price of sisters' LP. It has nothing to do with the power of the ship. The undeniable indicator that the market price is too high is the low sales volume. This is basic economic theory:
A free market will find price equilibrium when prices fall (or rise) to match the utility of the ship in comparison with other options. If the price is too high, ships will not sell. If it is too low, they will sell out. Unfortunately, the Nestor's price is fixed by unrelated factors - the fungible value of SoE loyalty points (which are themselves price-discovered by the utility of the astero, stratios, sisters probes, launchers and (less so) virtue implants).
The fact that the Nestor is not selling is a clear indiction that its utility does not match its price.
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Murkar Omaristos
The Alabaster Albatross
Eternal Pretorian Alliance
105
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Posted - 2015.03.14 17:18:51 -
[27] - Quote
I know this has been brought up before but why don't they make the nestor blops-capable, but with a limited jump/bridge range (and strip the logistics bonuses)? It's already more expensive than a Panther, which is a bit ridiculous.
It's the only ship in the SOE line that doesn't follow suit with the covops theme.
it's silly to pay 1.2bil for a ship hull that's only as effective as 2 guardians, especially when it itself requires cap-chaining support from other a bunch of other guardians in order to function. |
LT Alter
Dodixie Undock Is Camped
148
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Posted - 2015.03.14 17:44:15 -
[28] - Quote
Leave my wonderful nestor alone, thanks. |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone
Caldari State
4129
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Posted - 2015.03.14 22:59:33 -
[29] - Quote
LT Alter wrote:Leave my wonderful nestor alone, thanks.
There's a better than even chance they will.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
874
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Posted - 2015.03.14 23:19:42 -
[30] - Quote
Murkar Omaristos wrote:I know this has been brought up before but why don't they make the nestor blops-capable, but with a limited jump/bridge range (and strip the logistics bonuses)? It's already more expensive than a Panther, which is a bit ridiculous.
It's the only ship in the SOE line that doesn't follow suit with the covops theme.
it's silly to pay 1.2bil for a ship hull that's only as effective as 2 guardians, especially when it itself requires cap-chaining support from other a bunch of other guardians in order to function.
so toss it into another role and strip it of the one it has currently fit well into just because its price is higher than ships in the blop role. one of the great thing about pirate ships is people can fly them w/o needing to train into T2 you want the thing to use a jump drive that's going to add about 100days to it's training
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3?
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Lugh Crow-Slave
874
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Posted - 2015.03.14 23:21:45 -
[31] - Quote
Komodo Askold wrote:
In addition to either one of those, I'd swap the hacking bonus by it receiving bonus to shield RR too. Maybe it would help it on W-Space fleets, where one must adapt quickly to the environment.
the hacking bonuses are freebies they are not considered in the balancing of the ship
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3?
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Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
859
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Posted - 2015.03.14 23:26:44 -
[32] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Komodo Askold wrote:
In addition to either one of those, I'd swap the hacking bonus by it receiving bonus to shield RR too. Maybe it would help it on W-Space fleets, where one must adapt quickly to the environment.
the hacking bonuses are freebies they are not considered in the balancing of the ship
If the ship had the ability to move between systems without getting caught on a wormhole they would be excellent for running c4 and c5 relic sites in Foreign systems.
Then the hacking bonus would have some use - to get the hull sections without having to switch out to a frigate.
In this role it could do without the remote armour repair range bonus.
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
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Arthur Aihaken
Perkone
Caldari State
4129
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Posted - 2015.03.14 23:41:14 -
[33] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:In this role it could do without the remote armour repair range bonus.
We asked for a Covert Ops cloak; we got remote reps and a maintenance bay.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
859
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Posted - 2015.03.14 23:51:24 -
[34] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Mournful Conciousness wrote:In this role it could do without the remote armour repair range bonus. We asked for a Covert Ops cloak; we got remote reps and a maintenance bay.
In fairness the Maintenence bay would be useful in w-space - it allows for transition to pvp fit without a mobile depot (which would get shot).
If the ship had some ability traverse wormholes without getting ganked I could accept the lack of covops.
The ship is only unused because you can't get it safely between systems (well, that and the silly price)
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
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Arthur Aihaken
Perkone
Caldari State
4130
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Posted - 2015.03.15 00:13:39 -
[35] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:In fairness the Maintenence bay would be useful in w-space - it allows for transition to pvp fit without a mobile depot (which would get shot). If the ship had some ability traverse wormholes without getting ganked I could accept the lack of covops.
I was hoping for something unique with that yellow shuttle on the underside. The maintenance bay is probably one of the better ideas. A jump clone bay was something else I recall being floated around. I don't really have a problem with a covert cloak on the Nestor. It may be agile, but it's ridonculously slow.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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