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Nullbear Ranger
University of Caille Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2011.12.08 15:21:00 -
[31] - Quote
Khrage wrote:Jojo Jackson wrote:PS: Why has the Damnation a range bonus for Heavy and Heavy Assaults? It should be a damage and range for Heavy Assaults only? because it's just better with heavies. and it's a support ship not a brawler. so not classified with the other khanid style ships. ... this thread is becoming a loop... Norris and I have basically discussed everything everyone is bringing up now earlier in the thread and more so. so please go back and read the last page, it's not a dozen page thread like some others. so it's not that difficult to not repeat the same stuff we've talked about already. the non-cap using, extra powergrid t1 monster tanks with spitwad dps are my only hang up with this idea. just doesn't seem like ships worth creating to benefit a few. and to avoid repeating myself anymore JUST READ THE PREVIOUS PAGE... save Norris the constant explaining of the same thing over and over.
Oh HAI Norris!
"I wanna be a nullbear RANGER!!!-áLiving a life of virtual DANGER!!!-áSound off!..." |

Thredd Necro
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
71
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Posted - 2011.12.08 15:26:00 -
[32] - Quote
Norris Packard wrote: While they would be unbonused and not as damaging as lasers there are plenty of reasons that people would fit them, first off they are capless weapons (Same as ACs now) meaning that an active tanking ship will have much more capacitor to deal with regenerating armor another alternative is that a pilot may want to fit more capacitor warfare mods and so rather than needing raw DPS they would need the capless alternative to allow more drainage to occur and then peck the enemy to death while controlling and shutting them down. Missiles also use less grid than lasers allowing for more tanking modules to be fit including larger and oversized plates. It would make the ships flexible and able to be tailored to the pilots combat preferences, it also makes it hard for the enemy to judge what they are getting themselves into before making contact with the enemy on grid. Cookie Cutters are boring and by giving pilots may options and giving the ship the ability to take on different roles of combat is interesting. They should not be given a bonus to missiles in any way, the pilot can choose High DPS Laser Boat or Massive Armor Missile Boat.
Most people aren't that imaginative and I have already done most of the above but I can see your point about a significant tank increase with no significant net loss of dps. Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. - Douglas Adams |

Norris Packard
Wings of Redemption Black Flag Alliance
7
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Posted - 2011.12.09 05:29:00 -
[33] - Quote
Max Von Sydow wrote:Takeshi Yamato wrote:Max Von Sydow wrote:Jojo Jackson wrote: Punisher: - 10% cap usage change into 5% damage for Rockets - change from 3 turrets to 3 launcher slots
Leave the punisher as it is and buff the inquisitor instead. Change change the missile damage bonuses to a rocket RoF bonus and a armor resist bonus. Add some slots, pg, cpu etc and you got a working T1 amarr missile frigate. The bonus actually works on rockets. The ship is just bad (screwed over by the tier system). I agree that the inquisitor is screwed up because of the tier system but I also think it's the best frigate to be turned into a khanid style T1 frigate since it already use missiles, all it really need is an armor res bonus to be the frigate version of a HAM maller and HAM prophecy.
Thought that the Inquisitor was a tier 3 frigate?
While the Inquisitor is a choice for Khanid style pilots it lacks the armor resistance bonus that is very Khanid and having the option of either of these two ships would not harm much. I don't think that heavily armored Punishers with rockets would eliminate the use of the higher damage rockets of the Inquisitor but do think that the Inquisitor needs to be given a 4th missile hardpoint to bring it in line with the Kestrel (Breacher need this treatment too).
Punisher should not become a bonused missile boat, to do so would remove any "good" laser frigate and would tread on too many other frigates but with the option of unbonused missiles it would allow pilots to have an option to fly tech 1 ships like their tech 2 variants and gives younger pilots the ability to train with these systems before they reach tech 2 stage.
I am also going to throw this out there as something that could be done: Coercer given 6 unbonused missile slots; not going to be useful, but I think it would let young pilots moving up the Amarr tech tree have an option at destroyer level while they are looking to get into the Khanid ships. Would only be of use for a short time for Amarr pilots who are very young if they focus on the rocket skills rather than lasers but wouldn't harm anything either. Also would make sense being it is made into the Heretic anyways.
Many of these ideas are not going to be the best options for older players like myself but would be great stepping stones for young pilots. |

ElCholo
BURN EDEN Northern Coalition.
18
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Posted - 2011.12.09 06:54:00 -
[34] - Quote
I have a wet dream. My wet dream is for a Khanid Fleet Abaddon. This would be a faction Abaddon that must be missioned for and purchased with Khanid LP. The Khanid Fleet Abaddon would have 8 Launcher hardpoints. It's bonuses would be 5% resists per level and 5% RoF for Torps. Everything else would be the same as the regular Abaddon, maybe reduce the drones to 50m3.
This is my wet dream. |

Khrage
0
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Posted - 2011.12.09 20:45:00 -
[35] - Quote
ElCholo wrote:I have a wet dream. My wet dream is for a Khanid Fleet Abaddon. This would be a faction Abaddon that must be missioned for and purchased with Khanid LP. The Khanid Fleet Abaddon would have 8 Launcher hardpoints. It's bonuses would be 5% resists per level and 5% RoF for Torps. Everything else would be the same as the regular Abaddon, maybe reduce the drones to 50m3.
This is my wet dream.
i think this is a lot of people's wet dream... however, it's really not going to happen, for a lot of reasons. the navy scorp has the same bonuses and can dedicate all its lows to dps while having its mids for a massive tank (yes with fewer launchers but there's a reason for it). the phoon and it's navy counterpart share the same dps bonus with the 6 launchers, and have that very slot layout a would be torp abbadon would have (again limited # of launchers for a reason), and quite simply the opportunity to make a khanid faction bs was pasted up when it came down to the navy geddon. a lot more viable and less game breaky than a khanid baddon would be. though i find myself repeating things again, the reason that the (navy)phoon and navy scorp are the closest things that we're going to get to a khanid battleship is that the raven and the CNR are the top dogs of large missiles and won't be taken out by some sacrilegious amarr battleship.
but while we're talking about how cool it would be, it really wouldn't be all that great... just fit a navy scorp. yes there's less launchers but say raise the tier and add more fitting to strap on more launchers, you still really have the same fitting space left. and quite frankly, the shield 8 mid slots on the navy scorp make it one of the best shield tanks in the game, dedication all it's lows to BCUs. it is basically a better version than any khanid bs would be ever since it doesn't sacrifice tank for dps or the other way around like an armor torp boat would (think phoon). but when was the last time you saw a navy torp scorp? let alone seen it outside of missioners that want an extra security blanket instead of the better CNR? it's a cruise missile ship, the torps simply don't get the range to be considered effect. it can't even large pos bash!
khanid bs cool. useful, not so much. & despite how much i still want one regardless of how it would be out classed by other warp in dps ships, it's never going to happen.
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ElCholo
BURN EDEN Northern Coalition.
23
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Posted - 2011.12.10 11:08:00 -
[36] - Quote
Khrage wrote: A lot of crap.
Wow, that is a lot to say about my wet dream. However, I had to stop reading at "for a lot of reasons." It was at that point that I realized you were probably going to get into a bunch of mind numbing reasons (justified or unjustified) why my wet dream shouldn't / wouldn't happen in game. I really don't care. It's a wet dream for a reason. It's something I want but know probably won't ever come about. I do appreciate that fact that I was able to so completely take over your life for a short time and inspire you to try to explain away a passing fantasy of mine. Thank you. |

Takeshi Yamato
ALA Biomedical
29
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Posted - 2011.12.10 11:28:00 -
[37] - Quote
Hypothetical Khanid torpedo BS modeled after the Abaddon:
Slot layout 8x highs, 7x launchers (8x launchers would be too much I think). 4x med slots 7x low slots
Bonuses 5% damage torp damage per level, 5% armor resists per level.
1036 EFT 'All V' dps with navy torps and 3x BCU II. 20 km torp range. A Raven with a similar fit does 948 dps at 30 km.
It's basically a torpedo megathron with the quirks that come with torpedoes instead of blasters. As such it would need pretty good acceleration and speed to be effective, but not require as much cap or pg as an Abaddon. A niche ship for sure, but we don't have any armor tanking torpedo boats in EVE so why not? |

Norris Packard
Wings of Redemption Black Flag Alliance
7
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Posted - 2011.12.10 20:55:00 -
[38] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote:Hypothetical Khanid torpedo BS modeled after the Abaddon:
Slot layout 8x highs, 7x launchers (8x launchers would be too much I think). 4x med slots 7x low slots
Bonuses 5% damage torp damage per level, 5% armor resists per level.
1036 EFT 'All V' dps with navy torps and 3x BCU II. 20 km torp range. A Raven with a similar fit does 948 dps at 30 km.
It's basically a torpedo megathron with the quirks that come with torpedoes instead of blasters. As such it would need pretty good acceleration and speed to be effective, but not require as much cap or pg as an Abaddon. A niche ship for sure, but we don't have any armor tanking torpedo boats in EVE so why not?
Typhoons armor tank and have that same slot layout with 6.66 effective launchers... Anyways, way off topic people. You are all talking about navy faction ships while I was trying to address problems in the existing tech 1 Amarr line up and the way that there is no real stepping stones for younger players trying to get into Khanid tech 2 ships. Yes I did bring up the idea of altering the tech 1 Abaddon to fit the changes made with the other lesser classes but I did put a big maybe next to it. I don't think that torpedoes on an Abaddon with a 20km range and the speed of a hobbled horse would hurt much especially when someone could fit pulse weapons to do the same amount of dps in that range but also be able to switch to 40km or beyond in second. It is less effective launchers than the Raven and it is slow too. |

Max Von Sydow
Droneboat Diplomacy
77
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Posted - 2011.12.10 21:00:00 -
[39] - Quote
Norris Packard wrote:Takeshi Yamato wrote:Hypothetical Khanid torpedo BS modeled after the Abaddon:
Slot layout 8x highs, 7x launchers (8x launchers would be too much I think). 4x med slots 7x low slots
Bonuses 5% damage torp damage per level, 5% armor resists per level.
1036 EFT 'All V' dps with navy torps and 3x BCU II. 20 km torp range. A Raven with a similar fit does 948 dps at 30 km.
It's basically a torpedo megathron with the quirks that come with torpedoes instead of blasters. As such it would need pretty good acceleration and speed to be effective, but not require as much cap or pg as an Abaddon. A niche ship for sure, but we don't have any armor tanking torpedo boats in EVE so why not? Typhoons armor tank and have that same slot layout with 6.66 effective launchers... Anyways, way off topic people. You are all talking about navy faction ships while I was trying to address problems in the existing tech 1 Amarr line up and the way that there is no real stepping stones for younger players trying to get into Khanid tech 2 ships. Yes I did bring up the idea of altering the tech 1 Abaddon to fit the changes made with the other lesser classes but I did put a big maybe next to it. I don't think that torpedoes on an Abaddon with a 20km range and the speed of a hobbled horse would hurt much especially when someone could fit pulse weapons to do the same amount of dps in that range but also be able to switch to 40km or beyond in second. It is less effective launchers than the Raven and it is slow too.
How about just adding launcher hardpoints but no bonus? Since the abaddon doesnt get a laser damage bonus it should be able to survive without one for missiles. Though that might just result in a lot of cruise abaddons for missions. A raven with 6 launchers and a 25% RoF bonus has 8 effective launchers, so an unbonused abaddon should do similar dps but with shorter range. |
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