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Zsha Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2015.03.17 08:02:55 - [1] - Quote Which of these ships has the highest engagement profile. Which is better and why? I'm really confused what ship to train to invest my time into training, at the moment, I'm training for a Pilgrim, because I do not have to train for Gallente Cruiser V and I do not have to train any gunnery skills. If I was to train for a Stratios, Id have to train up Gallente Cruiser V and all the Relevant Laser gunnery skills. Pilgrim seems alot easier to train for. Is the extra time training for a Stratios worth it?
Zsha Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2015.03.17 08:14:43 - [2] - Quote [Stratios] Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II 10MN Afterburner II Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Medium Trimark Armor Pump II Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II Medium Trimark Armor Pump II Garde II x4 Ogre II x4 Hammerhead II x5 Gecko x2 Hobgoblin II x5 Warrior II x5 53k EHP Cap stable 681 DPS unheated. 497 m/s unheated.
Zsha Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2015.03.17 08:16:28 - [3] - Quote [Pilgrim, Pilgrim Solo] Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Warp Scrambler II 10MN Afterburner II Stasis Webifier II Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400 Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Anti-Thermic Pump II Medium Trimark Armor Pump II Hammerhead II x5 Warrior II x5 Valkyrie II x5 Hornet EC-300 x5 37k EHP Cap stable 351 DPS unheated. 432 m/s unheated. Has neut capability Little cheaper and alot easier to train for. Has ability to fit a covert ops cyno, to call in friends.
Zsha Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2015.03.17 08:17:19 - [4] - Quote Which would be better? Thanks. Edit: Ofc both Probe launchers would be offlined, making both fits fit.
HoruSeth Republic University Minmatar Republic 15	Posted - 2015.03.17 08:43:29 - [5] - Quote Definitely Stratios! I would fit it a little differently, but your fitting is ok. If you rely on friends of course Pilgrim for Covert Cyno ...
Zsha Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2015.03.17 08:56:56 - [6] - Quote HoruSeth wrote: Definitely Stratios! I would fit it a little differently, but your fitting is ok. If you rely on friends of course Pilgrim for Covert Cyno ... What would be your fit ? =]
HoruSeth Republic University Minmatar Republic 16	Posted - 2015.03.17 09:33:06 - [7] - Quote somehting like this: [Stratios, Stratios] Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II 10MN Afterburner II Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800 Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Trimark Armor Pump II Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II Medium Trimark Armor Pump II DRONES You loose some dps from the Guns, but the Neuting power you gain can speed up the kill after some time, especially if you kill ratters with active tank ;)
Zsha Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2015.03.17 09:36:47 - [8] - Quote Tight, with that I don't have to train gunnery skills. Thanks
Poetic Stanziel Angry Mustellid The Periphery 2163	Posted - 2015.03.17 10:04:56 - [9] - Quote Stratios is very good. But also more expensive. Remember if you train for the pilgrim. You can also fly the curse. And can't be detected on dscan.
ChromeStriker Out of Focus Odin's Call 853	Posted - 2015.03.17 11:22:52 - [10] - Quote Solo PvP? would go with the curse. Being able to Neut out to long point range is a big deal. Just Kite with your drones... [Curse, PvP] Damage Control II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Reactor Control Unit II Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I Warp Disruptor II Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400 Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 Warrior II x5 Vespa EC-600 x5 For Fleet work... Strat for DPS.... Curse for Support.... No Worries

HoruSeth Republic University Minmatar Republic 16	Posted - 2015.03.17 11:39:00 - [11] - Quote [Curse, Curse] Damage Control II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I Warp Disruptor II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800 Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Hobgoblin II x5 Light Armor Maintenance Bot I x5 Hornet EC-300 x5 Hammerhead II x5 same dps nearly 200m/s more speed 8.7k more omni EHP, though I would fit a T2 extender Rig to be honest. More initial Neuting Power after the first seconds of the fight. More Neuting Power for 8min24s overall (2xMed + 2x Small) Cap stable with 1x Med + 2x Small, as soon as you expect enemies cap to be down, where Small keeps the overall Cap better to zero than 3 Mediums do.
ChromeStriker Out of Focus Odin's Call 855	Posted - 2015.03.17 14:04:50 - [12] - Quote Speed isnt too much of a problem when they have no cap (MWD is normally he first thing to stop), and you have less neuing power overall. Cap booster will keep you topped up well after their cap is dry and you will stay out of scram/web range if they have a cap booster. Each to their own and tbh i think i just linked my small gang fit... No Worries
Gregor Parud Ordo Ardish 1297	Posted - 2015.03.17 14:17:18 - [13] - Quote There really isn't a reason to use a curse over a Pilgrim for solo work since the neut range change. Pilgrim works in both shield as armour variant depending on targets and tactics (armour brawler or shield kiter), Curse's Dscan immunity has its uses but is very niche and generally can be duplicated by uncloaking early as you or your target warps on grid. Stratios is more powerful but having those ranged neuts combined with difference in cloaking timers and, of course, being half the cost I personally favour the Pilgrim.
Tung Yoggi SnaiLs aNd FroGs 72	Posted - 2015.03.17 14:31:56 - [14] - Quote On the contrary, I see many reasons: speed, slot layout, neut range, dscan immunity. There's a huge difference being able to neut out ships at 37km rather than 24km (I'll let you ponder why) As for the OP, stratios is probably a bit more versatile, has more DPS, is a bit faster, whereas the Pilgrim beneficiates from a huge Ewar advantage, with the bonused neut and TDs. In short, try both, and find out which ship you like the most, according to your playstyle.
Gregor Parud Ordo Ardish 1297	Posted - 2015.03.17 15:01:19 - [15] - Quote Tung Yoggi wrote: On the contrary, I see many reasons: speed, slot layout, neut range, dscan immunity. There's a huge difference being able to neut out ships at 37km rather than 24km (I'll let you ponder why) As for the OP, stratios is probably a bit more versatile, has more DPS, is a bit faster, whereas the Pilgrim beneficiates from a huge Ewar advantage, with the bonused neut and TDs. In short, try both, and find out which ship you like the most, according to your playstyle. Shield Pilgrim is just as fast as a shield Curse and while more neut range is always better 25km is generally enough for actual solo work.
infra52x University of Caille Gallente Federation 42	Posted - 2015.03.17 15:09:42 - [16] - Quote HoruSeth wrote: somehting like this: [Stratios, Stratios] Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II 10MN Afterburner II Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800 Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Trimark Armor Pump II Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II Medium Trimark Armor Pump II DRONES You loose some dps from the Guns, but the Neuting power you gain can speed up the kill after some time, especially if you kill ratters with active tank ;) So I guess the probe launcher is offline?
Tung Yoggi SnaiLs aNd FroGs 72	Posted - 2015.03.17 15:12:31 - [17] - Quote It's also enough for a ceptor or garmur to keep you pointed, enough for a navy omen to dps you, should you decide not to fit TDs, enough for that orthrus to point you without having to worry much about manual piloting, not enough to put that second cycle on that courageous tackling frig who decided to burn away after deciding that tackling you around 20k was not a good idea, etc. etc. Shield pilgrim looks alright, (albeit slightly slower than a curse) but you will find yourself trying to decide whether you want an injector or a TD, or go for a weird-funky cap stable fit. Pilgrim is superior if you want to armor fit, or are more into sneaky stuff. All these assumptions made me think whether you actually have any experience in the domain you're giving out advice, or if you are talking right from eft to eve forums.
HoruSeth Republic University Minmatar Republic 16	Posted - 2015.03.17 15:29:41 - [18] - Quote infra52x wrote: HoruSeth wrote: somehting like this: [Stratios, Stratios] Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II 10MN Afterburner II Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800 Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Trimark Armor Pump II Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II Medium Trimark Armor Pump II DRONES You loose some dps from the Guns, but the Neuting power you gain can speed up the kill after some time, especially if you kill ratters with active tank ;) So I guess the probe launcher is offline? Yes. I used Threadopener's Fitting as basis and he mentioned beforehand: Zsha wrote: Ofc both Probe launchers would be offlined, making both fits fit.
Gregor Parud Ordo Ardish 1298	Posted - 2015.03.17 15:39:11 - [19] - Quote Tung Yoggi wrote: or are more into sneaky stuff. Well... yes, given that it's a Pilgrim.
Tung Yoggi SnaiLs aNd FroGs 72	Posted - 2015.03.17 16:17:13 - [20] - Quote Good job cherrypicking the one thing we can agree on :) As for the rest.. well it screams "I am giving out pieces of advice on things i haven't experienced myself", which is quite a bad idea.

Gregor Parud Ordo Ardish 1299	Posted - 2015.03.17 17:19:44 - [21] - Quote So how often do you truly solo, no scouts and links?
Tung Yoggi SnaiLs aNd FroGs 73	Posted - 2015.03.17 22:06:11 - [22] - Quote I dunno but i cry everytiem
Tung Yoggi SnaiLs aNd FroGs 73	Posted - 2015.03.17 22:11:50 - [23] - Quote On a more serious note, there is a lot of info available on players on the Internet, and you really have inquiries about me (and if it's not an internet pillow fight), i'll be happy to answer through eve-mails. Just know that I would not reproach you with giving out advice out of nowhere, if i was myself a stranger to the curse and to solo (the fake and the true) pvp.
Gregor Parud Ordo Ardish 1299	Posted - 2015.03.17 22:22:24 - [24] - Quote So all those words like "fought like a man with a curse" and "All these assumptions made me think whether you actually have any experience" are based on you not actually soloing, while we're talking about solo. TRUE solo, you know, not the kind where people "forget to mention" their link alts and stuff. The fact this even needs to be specified says enough really. For a TRUE solo in a cruiser like that you're, generally, better off with a cloak either to avoid trouble you couldn't handle (and didn't have the intel on because.... no scout alt) and to help grab a target. Of course the Curse is stronger and yes it has a better target selection, mostly due to TD, but again... when actually soloing it's not just the fight itself. Better lose some more linked Scram non-solo Barghests over it.
Zsha Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2015.03.18 04:33:57 - [25] - Quote infra52x wrote: HoruSeth wrote: somehting like this: [Stratios, Stratios] Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II 10MN Afterburner II Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800 Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Trimark Armor Pump II Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II Medium Trimark Armor Pump II DRONES You loose some dps from the Guns, but the Neuting power you gain can speed up the kill after some time, especially if you kill ratters with active tank ;) So I guess the probe launcher is offline? Yeah in post #4 I mentioned that launchers would be offlined bro.
Zsha Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2015.03.18 04:36:29 - [26] - Quote Gregor Parud wrote: So how often do you truly solo, no scouts and links? I intend to play solo only without any links/scouts, hense the cloaky role. Thanks for all the input. Can anyone trump or better the pilgrim fit I posted at the start of the thread?
Perkin Warbeck Black Watch Guard Curatores Veritatis Alliance 196	Posted - 2015.03.18 05:15:34 - [27] - Quote Zsha wrote: Gregor Parud wrote: So how often do you truly solo, no scouts and links? I intend to play solo only without any links/scouts, hense the cloaky role. Thanks for all the input. Can anyone trump or better the pilgrim fit I posted at the start of the thread? Go the Stratios if you want to solo kills. Both of the fits posted seem fine. The Pilgrims solo engagement profile is pretty narrow however you fit it (turret based ships that rely on cap) and most ratters in null will use drones. In my experience the Pilgrim has average dps and is a little squishy. It has a hard job tackling and taking down bigger targets before their friends arrive even if the target is capped out. The Pilgrim shines as a covert cyno ship for blops gangs. However, T3s trump them both.
Aeryn Atropos State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.03.18 06:38:29 - [28] - Quote Zsha wrote: Which of these ships has the highest engagement profile. Which is better and why? I'm really confused what ship to train to invest my time into training, at the moment, I'm training for a Pilgrim, because I do not have to train for Gallente Cruiser V and I do not have to train any gunnery skills. If I was to train for a Stratios, Id have to train up Gallente Cruiser V and all the Relevant Laser gunnery skills. Pilgrim seems alot easier to train for. Is the extra time training for a Stratios worth it? It depends, If you mean fighting each other? The Stratios will kick the Pilgrims ass, It has higher dps and tank and is not dependant upon cap. If you mean solo roaming for other targets? They are just as good against their preferred targets, A pilgrim will rock anything that depends on cap for weapons or tank. It also has the advantage of using neuts to set the range/pace of the engagement or to run away when ** goes ** up, which is handy for people starting pvp. It's drawback is low dps that can't be overheated. The Stratios is a much better combat ship but it's high slots are not where its power comes from so don't worry about gunnery skills so much, many people fly them with neuts too, they just aren't as powerful as pilgrim neuts. Drones are the power of both ships so TD's wouldn't be amiss even though only the pilgrim gets a bonus to them, the stratios has more mid slots so it can afford it. Target selection is key to either of these ships. The stratios will probably let you go after more targets but it will also make you a bigger target due to the Isk value. I would still suggest using the Pilgrim first since it will be better for learning.
Aeryn Atropos State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.03.18 06:50:00 - [29] - Quote Zsha wrote: [Pilgrim, Pilgrim Solo] Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Warp Scrambler II 10MN Afterburner II Stasis Webifier II Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400 Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Anti-Thermic Pump II Medium Trimark Armor Pump II Hammerhead II x5 Warrior II x5 Valkyrie II x5 Hornet EC-300 x5 37k EHP Cap stable 351 DPS unheated. 432 m/s unheated. Has neut capability Little cheaper and alot easier to train for. Has ability to fit a covert ops cyno, to call in friends. Navy 800's are better in the time it takes to use and reload all 4 400's (1200 total) you can load and fire two 800's (1600) pull the sisters probes and use d-scan to hunt allows you to stick a small neut which is handier for keeping people capped out and allows you to actually neut multiple ships more easily. If you insist on using a probe launcher to hunt I would still suggest using a normal core probe launcher to save the money, plus if your quarry sees combats they will get spooked. I usually fly in WH space though k-space may be different.
Zsha Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2015.03.18 07:26:27 - [30] - Quote Would be good to see the pilgrim/stratios in action through a PVP video. There don't seem many good vids about which sucks. Any decent ones around? Other than WingspanTT's videos, there don't seem to be any other PvP videos, showcasing cruiser level cloaky ganks. Wingspan should get out of his bomber and up his anti me thinks :)

Zsha Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2015.03.18 07:27:18 - [31] - Quote By the way, all the input has been quality. Thanks alot =]
Zsha Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2015.03.18 07:45:24 - [32] - Quote Since I'm going purely solo, would the ability to fly a Transport ship help me in anyway? For transporting ships/loot safely into and out of distant pockets of space? I figure since I'm mapped for training ships, I might aswell train for a Prorator. Would this benefit me?
Gregor Parud Ordo Ardish 1307	Posted - 2015.03.18 09:15:33 - [33] - Quote It all depends on where you pvp. Sov null will be limited due to station access but in npc it'll work fine, if you make use of a more active station you can also set up courier contracts. Fitting wise there's 2 tactics you can follow: the "old" armour version which is slow and short range and a "mini shield Curse" which, while lacking a TD, can do really well. They have a different target selection and a completely different play style, personally I'm not a fan of slow short range ships for solo 0.0 pvp unless they're cheapo/insurable. Lots of stuff Tung Yoggi makes sense (of course) and for that reason being a sitting duck in an AB cruiser, even though it's a cloaker, is far from ideal so the "in between" option of a shield kiting Pilgrim actually makes sense. It's also less frustrating when trying to catch a target because the armour pilgrim is slow as fck and it needs to get real close to tackle. The fit you posted works fine though assuming you want to use the armour tactic, just bring a depot with a MAR and travel fit. Also remember that you'll have to "refuel" often and get new cap boosters. There is a case to be made for a plate/M(A)AR hybrid, it all depends on the situation. Shield wise just think Curse without the TD, it could look something like this but, again, it all depends on the scenario and chosen targets. Lots of people still haven't adapted to the Pilgrim change and as such are blind to the shield version still thinking that slow&short range is how a Pilgrim "must be". [Pilgrim, Shield] Damage Control II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I Large Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400 Warp Disruptor II Medium Energy Neutralizer II Core Probe Launcher II, Core Scanner Probe I Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Medium Energy Neutralizer II Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Tung Yoggi SnaiLs aNd FroGs 78	Posted - 2015.03.18 09:53:19 - [34] - Quote Gregor Parud wrote: So all those words like "fought like a man with a curse" and "All these assumptions made me think whether you actually have any experience" are based on you not actually soloing, while we're talking about solo. TRUE solo, you know, not the kind where people "forget to mention" their link alts and stuff. The fact this even needs to be specified says enough really. For a TRUE solo in a cruiser like that you're, generally, better off with a cloak either to avoid trouble you couldn't handle (and didn't have the intel on because.... no scout alt) and to help grab a target. Of course the Curse is stronger and yes it has a better target selection, mostly due to TD but also neut range ofc, but again... when actually soloing it's not just the fight itself. Better lose some more linked Scram non-solo Barghests over it. Nice stacking penalties btw. Good lord. Please calm down, just avoid giving definitive advice if you only pvp in your head. I solo'd and will solo in a curse (yes, no scout, no links), and yes, you risk death when you jump without a scout on a gatecamp, that's part of the excitement. Please take your absolute ignorance of solo pvp elsewhere, sorry for pointing out the fact you seem to don't know anything about the subject on which you try to appear as an expert. You're not doing a service to people asking questions when in fact you never have experienced the ship beforehand. Tackling me madly like you just did will not help your case.
Gregor Parud Ordo Ardish 1307	Posted - 2015.03.18 10:08:21 - [35] - Quote Tung Yoggi wrote: Gregor Parud wrote: So all those words like "fought like a man with a curse" and "All these assumptions made me think whether you actually have any experience" are based on you not actually soloing, while we're talking about solo. TRUE solo, you know, not the kind where people "forget to mention" their link alts and stuff. The fact this even needs to be specified says enough really. For a TRUE solo in a cruiser like that you're, generally, better off with a cloak either to avoid trouble you couldn't handle (and didn't have the intel on because.... no scout alt) and to help grab a target. Of course the Curse is stronger and yes it has a better target selection, mostly due to TD but also neut range ofc, but again... when actually soloing it's not just the fight itself. Better lose some more linked Scram non-solo Barghests over it. Nice stacking penalties btw. Good lord. Please calm down, I solo'd and will solo in a curse (yes, no scout, no links), and yes, you risk death when you jump without a scout on a gatecamp, that's part of the excitement. Please take your absolute ignorance of solo pvp elsewhere, sorry for pointing out the fact you seem to don't know anything about the subject on which you try to appear as an expert. You're not doing a service to people asking questions when in fact you never have experienced the ship beforehand. Tackling me madly like you just did will not help your case. Please point out this ignorance on solo pvp. "durr, longer neuts are handy when dealing with linked kiters"? Well yes, this is obvious. "durr, TD is VERY handy especially as it gets a bonus"? Well yes, this is obvious. But it's countered by "cloak is pretty useful when truly solo". It might not be everyone's/your preferred play style, stuff like "part of the excitement" and "fight like a man" is a clear indication in that regard but that doesn't in any way change the validity of either play style, if anything it diminishes your "lol, you know nothing" to a "my preferred play style is best, the rest just sucks", which is dumb.
Tung Yoggi SnaiLs aNd FroGs 78	Posted - 2015.03.18 10:33:01 - [36] - Quote The heart of the debate was that 37k neuts make a huge difference vs 24k neuts. It's not about which playstyle is the best, i will not enter this sterile debate, to everyone his own favorits stuff, that's fair. You failed to show any rebuttal to my claim that you are not speaking from experience, but from figures and pure theory, and theory sadly doesnt suffice when it comes to pvp. Instead of going at me because i doubted your experience, you could have accepted the possible fact that your 7 all time kills on your posting character are not a free pass to spread knowledge, especially when your contradictor actually has some experience. Good job derailing on the barghest btw. Once again, you're not helping your case. Anyway, to help OP, cloaky transport is helpful if you want to settle in your hunting grounds. A cargo expanded transport can carry an unfit cruiser + its loadout, and several cap boosters. If you have a TS capable alt, you can scout with your brand new pilgrim, and bring a replacement cruiser in your hold. Here's a video of an armor pilgrim in action, from one of the top roamers around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aYQt5X-M_0 It might help showing what you can do with this ship.
Gregor Parud Ordo Ardish 1307	Posted - 2015.03.18 11:17:03 - [37] - Quote I failed nothing, your "I'll let you figure that out" shows you think you're the only one knowing about this "super secret" of neut range. You're not and as it's pretty much basic knowledge it's not something that needs explaining much. It was countered by my "cloak allows you to avoid unfavourable fights" which I also didn't fully explain on because it's pretty much basic knowledge, just as neut range is. According to your logic any ship that doesn't have ~30km neut range is thus bad and doesn't work. MY point is that covert cloaked ships, while obviously less powerful, have massive advantages. They won't appeal to everyone, they're not "manly" enough (if that doesn't shout low self esteem I don't know what does) but that doesn't diminish their usage.
Ralph King-Griffin Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 9083	Posted - 2015.03.18 12:04:13 - [38] - Quote Zsha wrote: Would be good to see the pilgrim/stratios in action through a PVP video. There don't seem many good vids about which sucks. Any decent ones around? Other than WingspanTT's videos, there don't seem to be any other PvP videos, showcasing cruiser level cloaky ganks. Wingspan should get out of his bomber and up his anti me thinks :) Zappity has some videos over in her thread and some interesting fits , they're buried in there somewhere but the thread is actually a pretty good read so you can find them yourself. Also Johnny Pew uses a stratios extensively , his channel is well worth subbing to. Both are really approachable nice people so I'm sure either would be happy to talk with you. "I'm also quite confident that you are laughing and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers." =]I[=
Tung Yoggi SnaiLs aNd FroGs 78	Posted - 2015.03.18 12:24:41 - [39] - Quote I've explained with a few examples why you have vastly improved combat capabilities with the curse's neut range. You're refusing to see my arguments, and twisting what ive said to serve your home-made narrative. Prime example: Gregor Parud wrote: According to your logic any ship that doesn't have 30+km neut range is thus bad and doesn't work. Where did i say that ? Just stop embarassing yourself, and actually try the ship. Try solo pvp for once instead of delving in this fruitless forum war, the more we talk, the less you make sense. Bad faith will not serve your point.
Gregor Parud Ordo Ardish 1307	Posted - 2015.03.18 12:33:54 - [40] - Quote Tung Yoggi wrote: I've explained with a few examples why you have vastly improved combat capabilities with the curse's neut range. You're refusing to see my arguments, and twisting what ive said to serve your home-made narrative. Prime example: Gregor Parud wrote: According to your logic any ship that doesn't have 30+km neut range is thus bad and doesn't work. Where did i say that ? Just stop embarassing yourself, and actually try the ship. Try solo pvp for once instead of delving in this fruitless forum war, the more we talk, the less you make sense. Bad faith will not serve your point. You did, you even do it in this post.

Tung Yoggi SnaiLs aNd FroGs 78	Posted - 2015.03.18 16:40:34 - [41] - Quote Better combat capabilities does not mean the rest is bad. You and only you made this assumption. I'm amazed by that capability to dig deeper and deeper towards nonsense, guided by the absolute power of your bad faith and terrible rhetoric. It's coming to the point you're starting to be entertaining, well mostly like watching a trainwreck can be entertaining.
Gregor Parud Ordo Ardish 1309	Posted - 2015.03.18 19:16:10 - [42] - Quote Tung Yoggi wrote: Better combat capabilities does not mean the rest is bad. You and only you made this assumption. In that case you'll agree that a pilgrim makes more sense than a curse, as it trades combat capabilities for a cloak.


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