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Aloysius Knight Minmatar Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.19 11:35:00 - [1] so tux can we be expecting a arty boost with this Hp increase? or are you intent on nerfing us into the ground?
Awox Minmatar Corsets and Carebears Whips and Chains	Posted - 2006.10.19 11:41:00 - [2] Edited by: Awox on 19/10/2006 11:41:44 Judging by your post not containing ALL CAPS I guess you've calmed done some after your initial outburst. Don't worry, I'm sure Tux will look into artillery eventually.. Just imagine the Gallente ships with even more hp + damage control and their excellent gank setups vs smaller ships. Fantastic. - Logoffski Name & SHAME
Awox Minmatar Corsets and Carebears Whips and Chains	Posted - 2006.10.19 12:17:00 - [3] GL carrying enough ammo for a good journey with autocannons aswell.. Barrage M aint cheap. - Logoffski Name & SHAME
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.20 06:24:00 - [4] Originally by: Awox Edited by: Awox on 19/10/2006 11:41:44 Judging by your post not containing ALL CAPS I guess you've calmed done some after your initial outburst. Don't worry, I'm sure Tux will look into artillery eventually.. I dont think he will. The hitpoint boost is done because he believes that combat should last longer. If you raise the damage of artillery or the other weapons, it would counter this effect. Basicly, dont expect the alpha strike to even dent the shields in the future if you are solo. But hey, nobody fights anybody else solo according to Tuxford, so there is no problem.... Now he could even give the Maelstrom a DMG bonus, because it doesnt even frigging matter with the extra shield hp. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Drazhar Kain Alpha Production Technologies Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.20 06:43:00 - [5] Originally by: Aloysius Knight so tux can we be expecting a arty boost with this Hp increase? or are you intent on nerfing us into the ground? It's a 50% boost for crying out loud. That is 1.5 times the current amount. Not double, not quadrouble... One point Five times more HP overall. A raven will have the equivalent of an extra large and medium shield extender, and a single 1600mm plate. From what I've heard, you would think that all ships but minmatar were getting 400% more HP, and artillery damage was decreased 50%.
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.10.20 06:54:00 - [6] Yes. 1.5. And module hp/sec remains the same. This shifts the balance away form dual-rep active tanks to passive resist tanks with less repping - the balance here is dependent on what % of your tanked hp you can rep each second, the lower the % the better you are with a resist tank - and directly nerfs high-alpha, low-dps weapon systems which work by overpowering active tanks with bursts of damage. It also creates a host of problems for short-range ships, but thats not relevant to the thread. ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!
Illuminaty ISS Logistics Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.20 07:41:00 - [7] Common sense should tell you that a solo 'alpha-strike' isn't going to happen if they want to make combat longer. They've been saying for a long time they want to make combat longer so they can add more tactical options. New defensive modules and rigs are being added. Ship hps are going up. The game is changing. There are a lot of variables to consider, like how projectiles don't use cap, and the effect of faster more manuverable ships in longer duration combat. It may not be as 'omgdoom' as you think it is. It might be worse. They will do their best to adjust fire to make it all reasonably balanced. I suggest taking a chill pill and waiting to see how it pans out.
Dupac Corsets and Carebears Whips and Chains	Posted - 2006.10.20 07:48:00 - [8] Originally by: Illuminaty Common sense should tell you that a solo 'alpha-strike' isn't going to happen if they want to make combat longer. They've been saying for a long time they want to make combat longer so they can add more tactical options. New defensive modules and rigs are being added. Ship hps are going up. The game is changing. There are a lot of variables to consider, like how projectiles don't use cap, and the effect of faster more manuverable ships in longer duration combat. It may not be as 'omgdoom' as you think it is. It might be worse. They will do their best to adjust fire to make it all reasonably balanced. I suggest taking a chill pill and waiting to see how it pans out. Read tux's comments on the dev chat - common sense suggests that you need to waken up He seems to think that there are no problems with amarr in general or the hp boost and the impact that will have on alpha strike and ships that use a lot of cap to fire weapons. From what I have seen and read recently, I have no faith in the balance devs ability to adjust anything, unless by balance you mean everyone flying gallente and caldari.
Pesadel0 Vagabundos	Posted - 2006.10.20 07:53:00 - [9] Originally by: Illuminaty Common sense should tell you that a solo 'alpha-strike' isn't going to happen if they want to make combat longer. They've been saying for a long time they want to make combat longer so they can add more tactical options. New defensive modules and rigs are being added. Ship hps are going up. The game is changing. There are a lot of variables to consider, like how projectiles don't use cap, and the effect of faster more manuverable ships in longer duration combat. It may not be as 'omgdoom' as you think it is. It might be worse. They will do their best to adjust fire to make it all reasonably balanced. I suggest taking a chill pill and waiting to see how it pans out. Jesus crist how can you be so naive?Do you ever shoot with a howitzer?Did you ever ran out of cap because you could break the enemy tank(amar)? Guess not...
Illuminaty ISS Logistics Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.20 08:34:00 - [10] Originally by: ****c Read tux's comments on the dev chat - common sense suggests that you need to waken up He seems to think that there are no problems with amarr in general or the hp boost and the impact that will have on alpha strike and ships that use a lot of cap to fire weapons. From what I have seen and read recently, I have no faith in the balance devs ability to adjust anything, unless by balance you mean everyone flying gallente and caldari. 1) He said there were problems with the Amarr, but that they were not simple fixes that could be applied to the Amarr to make the problems go away, and that the problems were not game breaking. 2) He said everything in this game was constantly under adjustment when asked about artillery. Which to a reasonable person would suggest that if it does not work, it will get tweaked until it does. IMO, your lack of faith stems mostly from your desire to paint things in a rather black and white extreamist view of things. Just because something isn't a perfect right now, or have the perfect solution lined up right this second, does not mean it is 100% terrible.

d'hofren Queens of the Stone Age Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.20 09:05:00 - [11] Edited by: d''hofren on 20/10/2006 09:05:39 Originally by: Illuminaty Originally by: ****c Read tux's comments on the dev chat - common sense suggests that you need to waken up He seems to think that there are no problems with amarr in general or the hp boost and the impact that will have on alpha strike and ships that use a lot of cap to fire weapons. From what I have seen and read recently, I have no faith in the balance devs ability to adjust anything, unless by balance you mean everyone flying gallente and caldari. 1) He said there were problems with the Amarr, but that they were not simple fixes that could be applied to the Amarr to make the problems go away, and that the problems were not game breaking. 2) He said everything in this game was constantly under adjustment when asked about artillery. Which to a reasonable person would suggest that if it does not work, it will get tweaked until it does. IMO, your lack of faith stems mostly from your desire to paint things in a rather black and white extreamist view of things. Just because something isn't a perfect right now, or have the perfect solution lined up right this second, does not mean it is 100% terrible. Ummmm, Minmatar carrier = Dev's agreed that the bonus's needed looking at 3 or so months ago. Issues still outstanding Target painters = Tux stated almost a year ago that The bellicose bonus was "meh", minmatar still have target painters as a racial ecm. The only change has been a nerf as folks were one shotting inties. Phoon = Over one year of lobbying and "we are taking a look comments" from dev's before a fix. Even then many would like to see a little grid to allow the same tank + short range, using mid to low tier weapons setups that every other tier 1 BS can fit... The concern is that arty will be sorted eventually, in the mean time NO ONE really fancies six months or more of the 7 mil sps's of being rather rubbish. Most of us could be fully specced in gallente hacs + medium hybrids in that time.
Dupac Corsets and Carebears Whips and Chains	Posted - 2006.10.20 09:06:00 - [12] Originally by: Illuminaty Originally by: **c Read tux's comments on the dev chat - common sense suggests that you need to waken up He seems to think that there are no problems with amarr in general or the hp boost and the impact that will have on alpha strike and ships that use a lot of cap to fire weapons. From what I have seen and read recently, I have no faith in the balance devs ability to adjust anything, unless by balance you mean everyone flying gallente and caldari. 1) He said there were problems with the Amarr, but that they were not simple fixes that could be applied to the Amarr to make the problems go away, and that the problems were not game breaking. 2) He said everything in this game was constantly under adjustment when asked about artillery. Which to a reasonable person would suggest that if it does not work, it will get tweaked until it does. IMO, your lack of faith stems mostly from your desire to paint things in a rather black and white extreamist view of things. Just because something isn't a perfect right now, or have the perfect solution lined up right this second, does not mean it is 100% terrible. 1) imo and the opinion of many others they are** game breaking issues if you fly amarr. I am not claiming they are simple fixes - where is the work on the more complex fix?? 2) He said everything in this game was constantly under adjustment when asked about artillery. Which to a reasonable person would suggest that he doesn't have an answer and is coming off with a standard pat reply to get out of a difficult question. Fixed that for you IMO your complete faith that the devs will put everything right, which I notice you have posted in a number of threads, is misguided and not based on any sensible reading of recent events. They have been faced with some difficult issues which they have dodged, preferring to concentrate on the easy fix, the blanket fix (50% HP), or just completely ignored. When I say "they" I am thinking of one person in particular ofc. I'm not by nature a conspiracy theorist, but having read a number of your recent posts, I'd have to wonder why you are trolling the various threads posting "take a chill pill" and other nonsense.
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.10.20 09:14:00 - [13] Originally by: **c I'm not by nature a conspiracy theorist, but having read a number of your recent posts, I'd have to wonder why you are trolling the various threads posting "take a chill pill" and other nonsense. Trolling as much as possible with pointless comments and little or subjective evidence is a force to be reckoned with - that's why we have EANM changes, WCS changes, and Nos changes lined up, when they're all really fine as they are. The fact that most Minmatar threads seem to be backed up with fair and reasonable arguments is what seems to get us ignored. Originally by:** RUNYOUFOOLS wrong on so many levels you could only be more wrong if you were tuxford. [/center]
LaCoHa Caldari Deep Space Navy Caldari Deep Space Industral	Posted - 2006.10.20 09:19:00 - [14] Edited by: LaCoHa on 20/10/2006 09:19:54 nvm. :)
Illuminaty ISS Logistics Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.20 10:11:00 - [15] You guys are just beyond hope. Complete and total tin-foil-hatters. TBH, the healthiest thing would be for you to just quit. Your getting way to wound up over a game. This isn't Law & Order, you can drop the drama, nobody dies if your spaceship isn't 100% perfect right away. All I'm saying is relax and take a deep breath because it will make you a happier person, and I'm a troll with an agenda.
inSpirAcy The Solopwnmobiles	Posted - 2006.10.20 10:27:00 - [16] Originally by: Illuminaty TBH, the healthiest thing would be for you to just quit. Your getting way to wound up over a game. This isn't Law & Order, you can drop the drama, nobody dies if your spaceship isn't 100% perfect right away. Just because some people care more about the game than you do, doesn't give you some moral high ground from which to order them around. Yes, some of us care deeply about the game design because we've put a lot of effort in learning, playing and tweaking to make something worthwhile out of a hobby. It's unsurprising to see emotion drift into posts, but it's equally unsurprising to see people such as yourself trying to use it to derail valid arguments. If you want to leave game design down purely to the devs own thoughts, then I'd suggest leaving this thread. You have absolutely nothing to contribute.
MECTO	Posted - 2006.10.20 10:33:00 - [17] Originally by: Jim McGregor in the future if you are solo. But hey, nobody fights anybody else solo according to Tuxford, so there is no problem.... solo and small gang pvp mostly will be useless. u can't kill a ** while theyr friends r coming etc.. stab nerf is only good for carebears cause locking time on NPC is nothin compared to locking time in pvp Hail Blobs! Originally by:** Kusotarre I am awesome in fleets, everyone on teamspeak trembles in fear as my battlecry blasts through their headphones, heralding a new era of target-less randomosity.
Illuminaty ISS Logistics Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.20 11:02:00 - [18] Originally by: inSpirAcy Originally by: Illuminaty TBH, the healthiest thing would be for you to just quit. Your getting way to wound up over a game. This isn't Law & Order, you can drop the drama, nobody dies if your spaceship isn't 100% perfect right away. Just because some people care more about the game than you do, doesn't give you some moral high ground from which to order them around. Yes, some of us care deeply about the game design because we've put a lot of effort in learning, playing and tweaking to make something worthwhile out of a hobby. It's unsurprising to see emotion drift into posts, but it's equally unsurprising to see people such as yourself trying to use it to derail valid arguments. If you want to leave game design down purely to the devs own thoughts, then I'd suggest leaving this thread. You have absolutely nothing to contribute. First of all, his argument has already been debunked in another thread. ~3% diffrence in raw DPS between a 1400 tempest and a 425 mega, when you then factor in that explosive damage is tanked up less than kinetic, results in Artillery doing more damage than the very ships he is claiming to do less damage then. So the 'valid argument' aspect holds no water. Second, he is engaged in fallacy after fallacy. He is demanding false choices, he is speaking for a bandwagon, he is making ad homnium attacks, and having general anger management and paranoia issues. Third, getting mad is never a productive use of your time and energy. Learning to care about something without going bonkers over it is a life lesson this guy needs to learn. He also needs to learn that he may well be wrong, so getting mad over something you could be wrong about is wasted emotions and a lot of energy spent on slamming other people over what could be your own mistake. I'm simply saying something because there seems to be way more rage in these games than there ought to be. I've maybe been about 10% as frustrated as this guy is, and hes going on about a gun in a video game. His head must explode when he has to deal with real issues like real people putting real bullets into other real people.
JustBlaze	Posted - 2006.10.20 11:05:00 - [19] this patch thing doesnt effect my setup since i rely on sheer resistances. and as for nerfing alphastrike... a raven with a half decent setup will reduce your damage to 1500-2000 against t2 damage. this isnt an alpha strike nerf because alpha strike didnt work in the first place.
Roxanna Kell BURN EDEN Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2006.10.20 11:11:00 - [20] Iam loving this minmatar whinage ; p Quote: "Don't touch the red button!"

Zhaine B e l l u m	Posted - 2006.10.20 12:49:00 - [21] Edited by: Zhaine on 20/10/2006 12:49:16 Originally by: Testy Mctest Originally by: ***c I'm not by nature a conspiracy theorist, but having read a number of your recent posts, I'd have to wonder why you are trolling the various threads posting "take a chill pill" and other nonsense. Trolling as much as possible with pointless comments and little or subjective evidence is a force to be reckoned with - that's why we have EANM changes, WCS changes, and Nos changes lined up, when they're all really fine as they are. The fact that most Minmatar threads seem to be backed up with fair and reasonable arguments is what seems to get us ignored. Who are you and What On Earth* are you on about? And what are you smoking? And can I have some? I agree with that people complain too much and exaggerate but EANM, WCS and NOS? None are as bad as many make out, but do you actually play this game? And to the OP, from another thread: Quote: We're actually quite aware of the alpha-strike effectiveness after the current changes and although we haven't really got anything concrete we feel happy with, we have some changes we want to check out in public testing. And yeah, I'm fine with you having an opinion, whatever that may be, but tux doesn't deserver that, he's very meticulous in how he works and if anything, he's always picking up leads, testing them out and seeing if the concerns are valid. At least, I get boatloads of emails from him with issues and conclusions drawn based on delving into it. See you on Sisi mate Wink Senior Producer EVE Online - - - - - - - - - - Quote: I don't even want a ship, ships are for carebears. Give me a fish bowl for my head (to keep space out) and smear me with lard, then armed with a toasting fork-


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