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Kalixa Hihro
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Posted - 2006.10.20 03:07:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Kalixa Hihro on 20/10/2006 03:08:20
buh bye Stababonds
buh bye Stabathrons
buh bye Sissie setups
buh bye unkillable newbs who play space combat.
I am against 99% of nerfs, and I've never posted a "Nerf stabs thread" but this one rocks. This means I'll get a fight once in a while, besides when it's 6 against me.
I can't wait. Stabs are for running not fighting and if you just plan to run, you don't belong in 0.0.
Damn, now people will actually need to learn how to fly and actually pay attention Cry me a river. Hear this ""? That's the worlds smallest violin.
Way to go devs. If you wrecked tracking too it would be perfect.
-Kal
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My opinion in no way represents that of my corp or anyone I am associated with, and is probably entirely wrong. |
Samirol
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2006.10.20 03:17:00 -
[2]
the "dont nerf wcs thread" is filled with 90% of people that are pro wcs nerf and 10% against. stabs are for transporting only. end of story
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keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.20 03:40:00 -
[3]
Samirol is right, but I wont pass up another opportunity to make a little dance on the grave of the stababond.
*rocks out*
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Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Pestillence
Chav-Scum
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Posted - 2006.10.20 03:56:00 -
[4]
I think the "nerf" achieves its objectives admirably.
Those that want to run can do so. Those that want to fight can do so with decreased efficiency. This is the trade off for being able to run.
Sweet!
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Flowen
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Posted - 2006.10.20 04:02:00 -
[5]
I think there should be more to the nerf. A WCS imo has nothing to do with your targeting. I think it should be a sig radious increas, max speed decrease, and (just to be evil) should act like damage control mods and can only have 1. |
TheEndofTheWorld
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Posted - 2006.10.20 04:05:00 -
[6]
This only shows that EVE is a game where whining on the forums gets what you want.
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Pestillence
Chav-Scum
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Posted - 2006.10.20 04:16:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld
This only shows that EVE is a game where whining on the forums gets what you want.
You have to post with your main for that to happen
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ShenFun
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Posted - 2006.10.20 04:30:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Flowen
I think there should be more to the nerf. A WCS imo has nothing to do with your targeting. I think it should be a sig radious increas, max speed decrease, and (just to be evil) should act like damage control mods and can only have 1.
sig radius increase and max speed decrease would screw over ppl that want to run as well... so... no.
The current nerf sounds good... but does that affect drone ships? i thought as long as your drones are out, they'll attack anyone that attacks you, even if you dont lock them.
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Lord Draco
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.20 04:39:00 -
[9]
Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld
This only shows that EVE is a game where whining on the forums gets what you want.
This post shows that eve is a game with a few tards that cant adapt with shedding tears.
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keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.20 05:07:00 -
[10]
Originally by: ShenFun
sig radius increase and max speed decrease would screw over ppl that want to run as well... so... no.
The current nerf sounds good... but does that affect drone ships? i thought as long as your drones are out, they'll attack anyone that attacks you, even if you dont lock them.
Technically thats true for FOF-missiles as well.
I dont think anyone seriously believes that this is the *perfect* WCS penalty:
The perfect stab penalty that has no effect on non-combat, pure-travel setups, while having a considerable effect on all combat setups to the point that 1 stab seriously compromises your combat ability, and 2 weaken all combat setups to the point of near-uselessness.
There are a number of workaround to targeting range/resolution penalties, and the majority if not all of these use weapons that dont need a lock - drones, fof missiles and smartbombs.
However, when one considers that:
1) The main possible offender for fof-missile stab-penalty evasion, the cruise raven, suffers from the same mediocre DPS that all cruise ravems suffer from without the rather crucial tactical ability of cruise ravens to use T2 cruise missiles, as well as the effects inherent in FoF missiles, ie they go for the nearest target and so such a ship is esaily countered with a fast interceptor...
2) Smartbombs... well I dont think I need to say much more...
3) Droneships suffer from problems similar to those that affect FoF-eqipped missle ships when jammed, that is your weapons are likely to deliver the damage in the most uneffective way possible, blindly following murphy's law - launch lights they go after the BS, launch heavies they go after ceptors - on top of the rather endearing habit of getting stuck in ways that would leave the dumbest maze-running lab mice laughing themselves to tears...
I think its safe to say that the current proposed stab penalty is a pretty good implementation of the ideal solution, and should cover the vast majority of intended situations.
I'm sure there will be incidents where the mechanics untargeted weapons system are "abused - if thats the right term - in order to work around the stab penalty, but I believe its better to wait and see how it pans out in actual combat once the changes go live on TQ, before further penalties are implemented which could possibly impair the intended defensive, non-targeted functionality.
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Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.20 05:10:00 -
[11]
Originally by: ShenFun
sig radius increase and max speed decrease would screw over ppl that want to run as well... so... no.
The current nerf sounds good... but does that affect drone ships? i thought as long as your drones are out, they'll attack anyone that attacks you, even if you dont lock them.
Technically thats true for FOF-missiles as well.
I dont think anyone seriously believes that this is the *perfect* WCS penalty:
The perfect stab penalty that has no effect on non-combat, pure-travel setups, while having a considerable effect on all combat setups to the point that 1 stab seriously compromises your combat ability, and 2 weaken all combat setups to the point of near-uselessness.
There are a number of workaround to targeting range/resolution penalties, and the majority if not all of these use weapons that dont need a lock - drones, fof missiles and smartbombs.
However, when one considers that:
1) The main possible offender for fof-missile stab-penalty evasion, the cruise raven, suffers from the same mediocre DPS that all cruise ravems suffer from without the rather crucial tactical ability of cruise ravens to use T2 cruise missiles, as well as the effects inherent in FoF missiles, ie they go for the nearest target and so such a ship is esaily countered with a fast interceptor...
2) Smartbombs... well I dont think I need to say much more...
3) Droneships suffer from problems similar to those that affect FoF-eqipped missle ships when jammed, that is your weapons are likely to deliver the damage in the most uneffective way possible, blindly following murphy's law - launch lights they go after the BS, launch heavies they go after ceptors - on top of the rather endearing habit of getting stuck in ways that would leave the dumbest maze-running lab mice laughing themselves to tears...
I think its safe to say that the current proposed stab penalty is a pretty good implementation of the ideal solution, and should cover the vast majority of intended situations.
I'm sure there will be incidents where the mechanics untargeted weapons system are "abused - if thats the right term - in order to work around the stab penalty, but I believe its better to wait and see how it pans out in actual combat once the changes go live on TQ, before further penalties are implemented which could possibly impair the intended defensive, non-targeted functionality.
As for myself I believe that drones and missiles should not function without a target lock, but this is another issue that deserves it own flame-filled thread.
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Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.20 06:50:00 -
[12]
Bye bye Vagabond.
Hello 260 million isk.
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Spanker
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Posted - 2006.10.20 07:02:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Tux
Warp Core Stabilizers now give penalty to targeting range and scan resolution, about 50% for tech 1
Owned, just OWNED. This is going to change SO much. Thank you thank you THANK YOU. etc
- Shpank |
Marcus Alkhaar
Exotic Dancers Club
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Posted - 2006.10.20 07:25:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Marcus Alkhaar on 20/10/2006 07:25:38
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Bye bye Vagabond.
Hello 260 million isk.
yeah because a vagabond with 2 stabs and a sensor booster II will get 25km locking range and near to normal locking speed....
ok, the vagabond now lost alot of shield....
Originally by: darth solo
I dont blame XS, tbh if i was in there shoes i wouldnt fight us either, its like bringing a caldari mountain sheep to fight a gallante war wolf(u like how i kept that in character |
franny
Phoenix Knights
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Posted - 2006.10.20 07:35:00 -
[15]
2 stabs on a vaga
pff, I wish some of the aAa pilots (who shall remane nameless) only fit 2 stabs
when he warps out from 4 pts often, you tell me how many stabs
death to the 4/5 stab vagas!, I can deal with the +2s
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Shin Ra
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2006.10.20 11:33:00 -
[16]
Hey
I'm with you guys all the way. Nerf em to oblivion.
But stabs as a matter of oblivion, stabs are not just for travel etc. They had plenty of valid pvp uses.
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Shin Ra
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2006.10.20 11:38:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Lord Draco
Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld
This only shows that EVE is a game where whining on the forums gets what you want.
This post shows that eve is a game with a few tards that cant adapt with shedding tears.
Again, I'm pro wcs nerf. But was on the otherside for a long time. It has nothing to do with inability to adapt or anything like that.
The other side imply believes that wcs are a valid, useful and fair combat module. All that this means is they think about it differently, nothing else. And I would tend to agree with him. Without the huge forum whinage I doubt anything would have changed.
I mean this is a wcs nerf, but they haven't really fixed the whole scrambing thing.
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Yazoul Samaiel
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.20 11:45:00 -
[18]
Nice thread but tbh i wanna se more lamers who fit stabs in combat whine about the nerf coz this just gives me great joy for all the frustration i had when i met Gheybonds and +3 wcs apocs and stabs on t1 frigs and inties tbh good riddance to all those lamers and their pathetic cowardly setups . More over if ccp can tweak the nerf not to affect haulers etc i am also fine with that since WCS are only for industrial ships imo period.
"There is no such thing as innocence , only different degrees of guilt"
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