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What % of ice product comes from Macros?

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Neveren Caldari The Taining corp Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.10.22 17:45:00 - [1] So im sitting in a 1.0 system mining ice. I need a few million Isotopes to restock pos fuel supplys.. and im wondering if people arnt out here mining ice all the time.. where to the 10's of millions of isotopes on the market come from. now ive been out here 3 days.. and ive noticed aside from the Macro barges... There isnt anyone around... So do people in empire mine ice? or are we just letting the macros supply our ice market?. I wouldnt be supprised if the % was upwards of 85% of the ice product sold comming directly from macro barges.. your thoughts?
Pestillence Chav-Scum	Posted - 2006.10.22 17:55:00 - [2] I mined ice in a mackinaw for about an hour and a half. (Along with dfljsldfjl, eowesopri and some others) I refined it, looked at the market value of what I had and then purchased POS fuels for 2 months. I reckon 95%+ comes from macros / farmers.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2006.10.22 18:17:00 - [3] Wasn't ice supposed to dissapear completely from highsec ? __ Always question everything. Including yourself. My skills (on BIG public site)
EchoTheDolphin	Posted - 2006.10.22 18:18:00 - [4] Originally by: Akita T Wasn't ice supposed to dissapear completely from highsec ? No, just some highsec ice spawns.
Malicious Wraith The Dark Side of the Moon	Posted - 2006.10.22 18:20:00 - [5] They all need to go... ----------------------------------------
Idara Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.22 18:45:00 - [6] Isn't ice mining ludicrously unrewarding in the amount of ISK/per unit time when compared to asteroids?
Sard Caid	Posted - 2006.10.22 19:00:00 - [7] Compared to other high security ores such as Omber and Kernite, yes. But it is a step above Veldspar, Scordite and Plagioclase, as I recall. And considering Macros decimate the highsec population of these more valuable asteriods, one and two can add to three.
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.10.22 19:05:00 - [8] Originally by: Akita T Wasn't ice supposed to dissapear completely from highsec ? CCP made some noise about it but guess what those 1.0 ice belts are still there guess they quitely canned the idea as losing a few thousand macro farming paying accounts was probably to much effort so the ice remains best to steal from the bots maybe petition em if u feel like it (effect seems minimal anyway) and be on youre way
Neveren Caldari The Taining corp Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.10.22 19:09:00 - [9] Cant steal from them.. they are evolving... Instead of canning it.. they simply run 1 cycle on the mack. get 4 units.. warp to station, Drop ice. rince repeat.. no stealing there and the noob corp prevents War dec's. not gonna lie, nice system they got going.. I must admit Moving ALL ice to .4 and below would solve all the problems of macros =o or well most of them
Beovvulf Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.10.22 19:10:00 - [10] I think one of the big problems is that ice rocks are huge. You can sit ten macro miners around one rock all day and it wont pop. Ore rocks are much smaller and would require the macroers to move around the belts.
Sean Dillon Caldari Privateers	Posted - 2006.10.22 19:20:00 - [11] I went to shihuken the other day, its ridicoul a belt with the size of 300 km from one end to the other can support a population of 90 miners a whole day long.
Dahak2150	Posted - 2006.10.22 19:29:00 - [12] I haven't iced in months, just ain't worth it. ---------- My sig is boring.
Taaketa Frist The Praxis Initiative Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.22 19:40:00 - [13] Ice is slowly disappearing from ice sec as they arn't respawning now. Its not a case of the devs just removing it but allowing people to adjust as ice will start to disappear. Go scan the ice in the belts and you'll find the amounts get smaller everyday. The only problem is theres so much its gonna take upwards of a year to realyl clear out th ebelts. -------------- Dang nabit
Professor Pizi	Posted - 2006.10.22 19:47:00 - [14] Originally by: Sard Caid Compared to other high security ores such as Omber and Kernite, yes. But it is a step above Veldspar, Scordite and Plagioclase, as I recall. And considering Macros decimate the highsec population of these more valuable asteriods, one and two can add to three. thats completle bull a convetor wil outmine an maci ISK wise by a long shot high sec icemining needs some love , it takes more skills to min then the minerals
zeKzn Empire of Destiny	Posted - 2006.10.22 19:47:00 - [15] I ice mine simply because the cycle times are easier on my mind if I want to do homework while playing or something. My thoughts are my own and do not reflect those of my Corp/Alliance
Saibotek	Posted - 2006.10.22 20:54:00 - [16] I havent Iced since i lost my buyer to Macros they provided it cheap.. and thats straight from my buyer.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2006.10.22 21:19:00 - [17] Edited by: Akita T on 22/10/2006 21:20:16 Originally by: Beovvulf I think one of the big problems is that ice rocks are huge. You can sit ten macro miners around one rock all day and it wont pop. Ore rocks are much smaller and would require the macroers to move around the belts. Hmmz, so you're basically saying that even if ice chunks no longer "increases", due to the sheer amount of "non-mining" in highsec during the time they DID increase, the chunks are so huge now that it really doesn't make any difference in the near future ? Originally by: Malicious Wraith They all need to go... Well, one thing I can agree with you on, pirate ;) But... as it seems, it will sort itself out sooner than later. Probably much later, but still ok. __ Always question everything. Including yourself. My skills (on BIG public site)
Neveren Caldari The Taining corp Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.10.22 21:47:00 - [18] So. Are any of you guys out there still doing ice mining in empire space?.. Or are the assumptions correct about macro's simply running the ice market for us?
Bohoba Caldari The Dark Angles	Posted - 2006.10.22 22:29:00 - [19] Edited by: Bohoba on 22/10/2006 22:30:35 I have not mined ice sence the buyers dropped there price below 130,000 no profit for me so unless I need the items the ice carries I don't mine it anymore Originally by: Neveren Edited by: Neveren on 22/10/2006 18:54:06 Edited by: Neveren on 22/10/2006 18:53:20 So im sitting in a 1.0 system mining ice. I need a few million Isotopes to restock pos fuel supplys.. and im wondering if people arnt out here mining ice all the time.. where to the 10's of millions of isotopes on the market come from. now ive been out here 3 days.. and ive noticed aside from the Macro barges... There isnt anyone around... So do people in empire mine ice? or are we just letting the macros supply our ice market?. I wouldnt be supprised if the % was upwards of 85% of the ice product sold comming directly from macro barges.. your thoughts? ** Post thought ** What % of Ice comes from .5+ BELTS.. My guess would be... normal players dont ice mine in empire at all.. So why not remove ALL Empire ice belts.. and put ice into .4 and below only... Ya? Get Into the Game it makes it fun for all
Gretek Lal Minmatar Hidden Industrial Group	Posted - 2006.10.22 22:35:00 - [20] I have not mined ice in a long time. I stopped when every ice belt I went to was crowded with people like "djhff222" and "djhff223" and lagging horribly. I don't play Eve much anymore because mining in Empire is no fun, and mining was mainly what I liked to do. Everything but Veld is mined out. I used to spend days moving my "stuff" to new systems, only to have macros mine those systems clean within a week of my arrival. Why bother? I'm thinking of just quitting the stupid game completely. For the last 2 months it's been a total waste of my money.
Soporo	Posted - 2006.10.22 22:36:00 - [21] Someone was kind enough to drop a Retriever in my lap,so I skilled toward it and got it up and running. Mined Blue Ice for a couple hours, did what that other dude did (checked market value, refined and unrefined in multiple regions), said screw it and put some deep core lasers back on. It's not worth it to me. I can get better isk from 'Roids, even with all the moving around. IE: Markets flooded. IE: Chinese macros ftw... Fine CCP, you don't care about Macros obviously (go to Shihuken), at least move all the Ice to Low or 0.0 if you give a damn about us... On reflection,to hell with that,they would just *****the 'Roid belts even worse than they are now. I guess nerfing NPC Corp and Trial accounts is out of the question too... Ah well, it must be your evil plan to let Macros take over Empire and run us all off into low sec and become Pirates.
Ralara Caldari Reunited	Posted - 2006.10.22 23:26:00 - [22] Originally by: Gretek Lal I have not mined ice in a long time. I stopped when every ice belt I went to was crowded with people like "djhff222" and "djhff223" and lagging horribly. I don't play Eve much anymore because mining in Empire is no fun, and mining was mainly what I liked to do. Everything but Veld is mined out. I used to spend days moving my "stuff" to new systems, only to have macros mine those systems clean within a week of my arrival. Why bother? I'm thinking of just quitting the stupid game completely. For the last 2 months it's been a total waste of my money. well I don't like macro miners either but there's hundreds of systems in high sec where you can mine without macro users.
Taaketa Frist The Praxis Initiative Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.22 23:57:00 - [23] Oh on a completely non-macro related note. I used to make 10mill a day ice mining in high sec. Granted I would then have to take a day out to haul the materials to a place where I knew it would sell for good prices but still its very profitable if you sell the right minerals in the right places. -------------- Dang nabit
Verite Rendition Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2006.10.23 00:02:00 - [24] Originally by: Ralara Originally by: Gretek Lal I have not mined ice in a long time. I stopped when every ice belt I went to was crowded with people like "djhff222" and "djhff223" and lagging horribly. I don't play Eve much anymore because mining in Empire is no fun, and mining was mainly what I liked to do. Everything but Veld is mined out. I used to spend days moving my "stuff" to new systems, only to have macros mine those systems clean within a week of my arrival. Why bother? I'm thinking of just quitting the stupid game completely. For the last 2 months it's been a total waste of my money. well I don't like macro miners either but there's hundreds of systems in high sec where you can mine without macro users. You have the wrong point of view. Macro-miners mining ice is great, it keeps down the costs of running POSs and moving cap ships, which in turn means more component supplies for the T2 market, and more death & destruction of players who will need to buy new stuff. The fact that the macro-miners are taking care of supplying the mundane materials on the market is a boon to us all. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic
Cmdr Sy Off Balance Sheet Entity	Posted - 2006.10.23 00:13:00 - [25] The reality is, POS logistics guys are placing buy orders, averting their eyes and not asking questions. Don't ask where the ice is coming from, and nothing bad can happen. That's the mentality these days. Real players are still mining traditional ores in high sec however, wherever they can find a belt. They tend to be the die hard carebears though, people for whom this game really is just a chatroom with a few communal activities for focus and cool visuals.
Fliewatuet Angelus dos Business	Posted - 2006.10.23 00:36:00 - [26] Originally by: Cmdr Sy The reality is, POS logistics guys are placing buy orders, averting their eyes and not asking questions. Don't ask where the ice is coming from, and nothing bad can happen. That's the mentality these days. So, how can you control who sells you the stuff you set a buyorder for? I never get asked on escrow if i want to sell to this or that guy and i never get asked before someone sells me his stuff on a buyorder from me. But i'm sure you can enlighen us on that matter. So, how do you do it? --
Cmdr Sy Off Balance Sheet Entity	Posted - 2006.10.23 00:41:00 - [27] Originally by: Fliewatuet So, how can you control who sells you the stuff you set a buyorder for? I never get asked on escrow if i want to sell to this or that guy and i never get asked before someone sells me his stuff on a buyorder from me. But i'm sure you can enlighen us on that matter. So, how do you do it? You don't. But you know, when you have azsxdc01 and friends stripping the constellation and cheap mins just keep flowing into vast bulk buy orders, it doesn't take a genius to work out that the bulk of the T1 industry mineral feedstock is no longer coming in via shipyards' contracts with local mining corps. Placing mineral buy orders means doing business with currency farming outfits by default.
Charles Schwab The Charles Schwab Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.23 01:52:00 - [28] Welcome to the flat world! This is EVE's equivalent of outsourcing. Instead of moving unskilled jobs to third world countries, however, the menial labor in EVE is being taken up by machines (and people who act like machines). It's good for the economy, but bad for the player who would otherwise be a part of that unskilled labor force. ___
Gjs312 Caldari Custodes Valhallae Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.10.23 05:11:00 - [29] Not sure this is going to happen, because like people said the cost of managing a POS would skyrocket without the macroers. If there really are no real people mining ice the hard way without a macro, then CCP could just seed ice ore as a market item and be done with it. The real issue is more likely the large amount of subscription money coming in from macroers . But what do I know.
Empty Vee	Posted - 2006.10.23 09:25:00 - [30] Originally by: Neveren Edited by: Neveren on 22/10/2006 18:54:06 Edited by: Neveren on 22/10/2006 18:53:20 So im sitting in a 1.0 system mining ice. I need a few million Isotopes to restock pos fuel supplys.. and im wondering if people arnt out here mining ice all the time.. where to the 10's of millions of isotopes on the market come from. now ive been out here 3 days.. and ive noticed aside from the Macro barges... There isnt anyone around... So do people in empire mine ice? or are we just letting the macros supply our ice market?. I wouldnt be supprised if the % was upwards of 85% of the ice product sold comming directly from macro barges.. your thoughts? ** Post thought ** What % of Ice comes from .5+ BELTS.. My guess would be... normal players dont ice mine in empire at all.. So why not remove ALL Empire ice belts.. and put ice into .4 and below only... Ya? Ask yourself why you went to 1.0 to mine ice ... And then assume that others may go there for the very same reason. Removing ice from high sec will drastically remove supply, thus increase prices. -> less corps able to afford the ice to fuel their pos -> less pos -> less people in 0.0 or low sec. In order to avoid that, but still removing ice belts from high sec to get rid of macro barges ccp would have to guarantee stable supply coming from NPC corps/stations. Smart idea? I think not
Otellus	Posted - 2006.10.23 09:34:00 - [31] Do we know how much isk CCP 'intended' the iceprice to be? When they set the fuel requirements of capital ships and POSses, they probably had an idea as to how rare they want those things to be. Best way to start is probably to compare the cost of NPC items (robotics/uranium etc.) used in POS fuels, to the cost of ice. If the cost of iceproducts are only a fraction of the total fuel cost, CCP probably thought ice would be more expensive. If ice is much more expensive than the other fuel items (in terms of cost per month of course, not per unit), that would for me indicate ice prices are higher than CCP expected. And CCP clearly never wanted ice to be scarce, if the size of the iceroids in 0.0 is any indication. With the number of capital ships increasing, its likely we will see a further increase in iceprices in the long run IMO, unless CCP releases a third class of mining vessels with higher yield. Would be nice for lowend ores and for ice tbh, don't think we need to increase the mining yield of highend ore.
Halleck Gurney	Posted - 2006.10.23 09:45:00 - [32] Simple solution to start with : Remove the ability to mine ice from NPC corporations ... that way people who want to mine ice will have to join a player corp ...
Kadarin Wolfenrecon Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.10.23 09:53:00 - [33] With the exception of popping the occasional would-be ore thief, ice mining is not only excruciatingly boring, it is not worth the effort. Even mining with 3 Mackinaws, maxed out skills + mods, and a dedicated hauler, I've found that I'm better off simply running missions to build cash to just buy the ice products.
Neveren Caldari The Taining corp Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.10.23 15:28:00 - [34] well.. after my weekend of some eve. with 2 mack's running and a dedicated hauler.. I mined some 500 blocks of ice.. a sizeable feat.. Only to find its worth pennies.. at around 44 blocks an hour.. thats 5+ hours running 3 accounts.. to yield roughly 30 million isk in pos fuel.. i make 40 mill+ an hour in 0.0 mining bisto with 1 ship... no wonder no one minds that macros are running the ice market..
Sara Harvey Gallente Gwneuthur Corfforeath The Confederation	Posted - 2006.10.23 16:41:00 - [35] Edited by: Sara Harvey on 23/10/2006 16:42:07 i used to mine ice, but after seeing the market price drop in half, decided to go to ore instead also when i used to ice mine i would jump in start mineing laser then go get work done.... seeming as theres such a darnd big delay for them..... i like being productive Sara Harvey
Anavina	Posted - 2006.10.26 15:52:00 - [36] Hrm.. this thread fell without notice it seems... up ya go! Does anyone else have any input on the ice market? Any ice miners out there? or are ccp turning a blind eye to the blaitent ice macro issue
evistin Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.26 16:31:00 - [37] Macro Miners are still income to CCP and CCP has stated that ISK farmers has a very small impact on the overall game. There are people who will always need the ice, macro or not. In the end you guys decided. ----------- Management and Leadership û The Eve-online Guide
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.26 23:49:00 - [38] For the one asking, from my price list: Cost of NPC items needed to run a small Gallente POS for 24 h = 369.240,00 isk Cost of ice products = 966.192,00 And I would prefer to mine ice products in 1.0 instead of 0.1, but the nearest ice fields in high secutity are 20+ sistems away, through other low sec sistems.
Quivox Alkar	Posted - 2006.10.27 00:52:00 - [39] How long do you think the empire ice will take to disapear completely? I'm asking this because if what i've read is true (the great majority of ice comes from macrominers), then buying ice now would be a very good investment. When empire ice disappears, along with the increase in POS and Capital Ships numbers, the price will go up very fast... I'm a noob to EVE and definitly not an economist, so if I talked nonsense please tell me so.
Big Al Another Lame Corp	Posted - 2006.10.27 01:14:00 - [40] Everyone loves cheap ice (cept people trying to make a living at it), and ice mining is truly one of the most boring things to do in the game. The 300-400 mackinaws sitting in high sec mining ice (85+% macro/isk farmer) provide a great source of it. CCP loves that they are raking in the subscription money from a source that isn't out crashing nodes every 5 seconds. Really no one (except miners, and seriously, who cares about miners?) loses. My biggest issue... PICK A REAL NAME. If they all had decent names I think I would be much less agitated and less likely to kill them indiscriminately. I don't do it for love, I don't do it for money (although Ice Miner IIs do sell nicely), I do for spite. If the high sec ice fields do end up going completely, I'd expect a 50-100% rise in ice costs, maybe even more, until that day the population of ice miners rambling in chinese will be on the rise.
Ridley Tree Crimson Knights Trade Federation Thundering Mantis	Posted - 2006.10.27 01:19:00 - [41] Originally by: Charles Schwab Welcome to the flat world! This is EVE's equivalent of outsourcing. Instead of moving unskilled jobs to third world countries, however, the menial labor in EVE is being taken up by machines (and people who act like machines). It's good for the economy, but bad for the player who would otherwise be a part of that unskilled labor force. Not exactly. If players were mining ice the isk would stay in the game, and potentialy go into an isk sink (like pvp), or into player stations (run by mining corps). Instead all the isk spent on POS fuel, ice etc... is being sold on ebay. Not good for the economy. In fact it causes that inflation that we all know and love. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
bahamut pelennor	Posted - 2006.10.27 03:59:00 - [42] Originally by: Soporo Ah well, it must be your evil plan to let Macros take over Empire and run us all off into low sec and become Pirates. i can see it clearly now! the evil plan! we are under attack by unknown AI based race! they are infiltrating everywhere! taking over the Empire! lol CCP could do a whole new game out of this...

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