It will never be more profitable to risk exploding when it comes to FW plexes.

The complaints about stabbed farmers, I feel like, come from the dudes trying to get ganks in backwater systems. Coming from an alliance with a very large TZ hole I know the pains of plexing happening during my off time, and we do begrudge the farmers but ultimately what blocks them is a culture shift on our part and a focus on occupying the FW space we lay claim to. What happens in back end systems doesn't matter. And in FW what makes a system important is generally who lives near by.

I often encounter people who don't want to fight me. Sometimes I am sneaker than them and make them fight me. Sometimes I am not. That is the way PVP works, I do wish unfit or non combat ships didn't have an impact on WZ control, but the easiest way to counter that is with pilots in space shooing them away.

If I am farming and someone attacks me I risk losing my ship. Or I could just fly away and not lose my ship. I would never argue that a pilot cannot sustain living in the WZ and only plexing and fighting, because I know for a fact one can. What I wanted to get across is that no solution designed to "make someone fight" will make someone fight if they don't want to. Which is why I would say more of a culture shift, rather than one of mechanics, be the solution to it.

In my experience, if you want a fight in Eve, you can find one. The problem with anti-farmer argument is that they always say that no one wants to fight but what they really mean is "no one wants to fight me in a fight completely in my favor. Come here so I can wipe the floor with you."

I'm not going to fight your souped up slicer when I'm flying a tristan with low SP. Sorry. And it's not that I'm risk adverse but I'm not insane either. Nor do I think I should have to wait until have 100 percent perfect combat skills before I do FW.

Far as I can tell, FW has always been intended as an avenue to learn PVP, and one of the first things you learn is what fights to pick . So yeah, if you are a high SP character with a **** load of kills you are going to get choosing not to fight you in FW.

Just because you don't like the system doesn't mean its broken.

i learned pvp in FW. Back when the FW system was far worse than it is now. So i do know how it is for a low SP char to get winnable fights. At the same time it is far more rewarding once you manage to win a fight.

Your corp does it right. You guys group up if i remember correctly. I think i lost at least one confessor to your low-sp gang. When i was talking about farmers i didn't have you guys in mind - you can be sure about that.

I am wondering, why do you think game mechanics should let a militia member make progress, let him contest a system, earn LP, despite the fact that he run away. If you can't fight, so be it, you have to move on or group up, reship, whatever.

If you don't WANT to fight in general, you can still do FW pve.

it was solved for about 10 days. till players adapted.

Just because you like the system does not mean it is not broken.

The anti-farmer argument is valid when you consider:
1. FW complexes are designed in the game as conflict drivers
2. Eve design is supposed to be founded on "a greater reward for a greater risk"
3. Eve design is supposed to be founded on "there is a cost to your actions" and "the cost is high (HTFU)"
4. Armies don't bring their farmers to harvest inside a warzone they send the troops in to secure it. The farmers are behind enemy lines cooking soup.

Do you get these "design philosophy goals" from propoganda videos?
1. Anything in Eve can only be a conflict driver if both sides decide to engage. This includes low sec anomalies, belts, missions, etc... not just FW plexes.
2. Sure it is. Yup. That's why the game has so many different ways to opt out of conflict.
3. The reality everywhere in this game is the exact opposite. It's not hard to join the status quo. It's not hard to reap rewards for doing so.
4. Armies use their low skill auxiliary forces to secure the backlines (afk deplexing alts), and they don't send their high-value troops to secure areas that are not defended by anyone (nearly afk farmers in tristans). See, I can play "Eve is RL " too.

Edit: BTW, timer rollbacks would work too. Would welcome that feature.

In regard to timer rolls backs... it already exists.

if you don't want stabbed farmers, support the threads which mention plex timer resets whenever they periodically come up.

since they fix the problem at its core. The only way to fix it is to make running away less profitable than fighting and attempting to hold the grid.

That would be the end of solo plexing and most of the solo pvp in fw. Millitia's would have small gangs in cheap frigs just roaming around a huge area systematically kicking out solo plexers and resetting all the clocks until the only way to win a plex would be in gangs. there's little enough solo pvp as it is, this would kill whats left of it and reduce faction warfare to pure blobbery.

EDIT: If he spends ten minutes of his time running the clock down, why shouldn't you spend ten minutes of your time running it back up?

Timer resets would be a real **** you for people like me who solo plex to pay for ships. Nonsensical that I should lose 10-15 minutes of my time because a blob or a WT in a worm warps into my plex.

It is also nonsense if a pilot (ok eg: in a Worm) warps into the novice you were in and drives you out. Starts to reverse your work only to see you open another novice in the same system. It will take him 15 mins or so to capture the one you have worked on or 10 mins+ to capture the one you have opened. In the mean time you can capture either plex faster than he can capture to prevent you.

He can chase you back and forth until one of you decides it is pointless to carry on "rince and repeat" and one pilot quits or he stays and completes one to cancel the effect of your VP (almost no affect on your attempt to capture a plex).

I hope you can see the poor design in this kind of common place scenario?

He can try and be sneaky and set a trap or call a friend for the other plex. Even less chance of any proper interaction if the pilot is a farmer with warp core stabs only interested in the LP from a plex.

Rollbacks (I agree timer resets are not appropriate) should be implemented for this very reason. No it would not be fair for you to lose 10-15 mins work instantly. It would be fair for you to lose 2 mins for every 1 mins the pilot held the plex after he force you out - up to and only up to "uncontested" point. Then he would have to earn his plex at the rate you had to.

I don't understand your point. Do you actually think this is an issue for system fights? Because it's not, unless it's a system no one really cares about contesting.

He can chase you back and forth until one of you decides it is pointless to carry on "rince and repeat" and one pilot quits or he stays and completes one to cancel the effect of your VP (almost no affect on your attempt to capture a plex).

So basically if both sides are willing to run back and forth, then nothing will happen to system contested level?

The other option is that timer rollbacks happen, and still nothing happens until one of you leave the system.

That right there is a revolutionary change in Occupancy Warfare.

Being able to prevent capture of complex's (by presence of force) promotes combat.

make it so when you upgrade a system to a certain level it makes scram/disruptors infinate warp scram strength in range of the beacon. Upgrade your system and farmers go bye bye. /thread

huh, I think I actually like this idea, make it within 100k of the capture point.

There is a subtle change to the circumstances that promotes combat and the intention for combat.

In most cases players will not "back n forth" but will decide to run a plex as counter to the other or one will leave (let's be practical). This means two novices cancel each other out.

However, this changes when the only plex's are of different sizes. Now the one with "control" (ie superior force) can stabilise the plex's in a system and then run the smaller. This says get out of my system to the weaker force or bring more.

Reward of the "evasion farmer" is removed when an active enemy is present in system.

Two solo pilots: one weaker can try to ship up or bait with a mate.
Fleets: the weaker force must try to engineer a situation to gain control. Sometimes that will just be savvy tactics and flying whilst holding position inside a plex or splitting off a force and sometimes it is up ship, reship or get friends.

This all promotes players to "bring it". To bring combat ships and intentions to fight. It attracts back the pilots who gave up on FW coz the farmers have more of an impact on occupancy than they do and they cannot do anything about it. It encourages pilots to undock in a combat capable ship. There will still be system changes if timer rollbacks are implemented. It could mean more systems roll over as deplexing cannot be so easily farmed (I believe GalMil like their depleting alts? - sorry).

Amarr dragged itself up from tier 1 after the dps check changes to tier 3 with coordinated concerted effort w/o farmers. It was not til tier 3 that the farmers jumped in and deplexing became a synch so that the combat forces could focus on key systems (a failure of the current status quo). Then major Minmatar players left, Kourmonen fell and CTRL Q were the last bastion to quit. Amarr got a medal.

Being able to prevent capture of complex's (by presence of force) promotes combat.

This along with a narrowing of the Tier 1 - Tier 5 LP bonus's/penalties come high on my recommendations for FW (Less militia jumping).

If the presence of force promotes combat and running a plex timer requires some kind of force to be present then why do we need a timer roll back?

Let's stop talking about timer decay it's a terrible idea.