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Camios
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
18
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Posted - 2011.12.03 19:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
It has been said many times that human interaction is the key to make people subscribe. But what kind of interaction can a newbie have in this game? There can be 2 kinds of human interaction. They can either chat with other player, or fly with/fight against them. Of course playing together is better, you can see the ship (or avatar) of the other player in the space around you, and while chatting you have the feeling that he is right there. That is, while local chat is a good thing for human interaction, flying together is better.
This is what actually happens in the asteroid belts. You are a newbie, you go around the belts, you see a mining barge, don't know anything about it, you are curious and you can actually talk to its captain, and he will tell you things that will make ou dream of you future in EVE; you can socialize, he might even invite you into a corporation. But most of the people in empire run missions, and newbies cannot really interact with them.Newbies can't fly with mission runners unless the mission runner invites them into a fleet.
This does not feel right. Empire should be all about human interaction, and human interaction is flying together or fighting eachother. Instead, space could feel unpopulated and unappealing for a newbie, even if there are 40 people in local, because he will never be able to fly with all those mission runners, while a miner in the belts might just be "not in the mood", and others can be docked and afk. Actually space feels quite empty until one learns how to probe out things. I think that this is an issue that needs to be addressed.
Summing it up:
- Newbies can perceive empire space like is empty and there is nothing to do for them because it's difficult for them to interact with older players
- Chat systems are just a palliative, flying together and having a visual contact with the other player's ship is much better
- Most active player in empire run missions and are thus unreachable by newbies
- For newbies, estabilishing a contact to older player would be really good
My suggestion are, just to make an example:
- Every mission dungeon (in highsec) should be visible on the overview like factional warfare dungeons, or
- Easy to find with the onboard scanner (only in highsec) like anomalies, but the first tutorial mission should talk about the onboard scanner.
I'm perfectly aware that this would make things easy for the ninja salvager, but I don't see this as a problem. |
grazer gin
Raving Rednecks
20
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Posted - 2011.12.03 21:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
Posting in a stealth ninja salvager whine thread |
Thredd Necro
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
67
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Posted - 2011.12.03 22:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
Space IS mostly empty you know...even nullbear tears can't possibly fill it up... |
Velicitia
Open Designs
152
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Posted - 2011.12.03 22:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
Douglas Adams wrote: Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
/thread
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Camios
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
18
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Posted - 2011.12.03 23:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
If you are urged to comment on a thread, please read the OP and try to troll not so obviously
- I like ninja salvagers; I think that it should be easier to find mission runners in highsec, but this has nothing to do with ninja salvaging. You were misguided, try to read again.
- I know space is physically almost empty, of course, and you don't need a degree to read on wikipedia about the orders of magnitude of interstellar gas densities. I'm talking about human interaction, and it's pretty important since we're talking about an MMO and not about your favorite space documentary.
The point is that space may look empty of people and lifeless for a newbie, and a newbie should be able to interact and fly with anyone he likes and he is liked by.
I hope you acknowledge there is a possible problem about socialization and involvement in the game; it is pretty evident that for some people EVE is hard because they could not find a proper corporation or a suitable company to enjoy his game. And why? Possibly because the mechanics are hiding the "expert" player from the newbies?
I have exposed here a problem, an opinion, and a way to intervene on the situation. If you agree on the problem but not on the solution, let's discuss about this. If you don't think this is a real problem, well I hope you found my point to be at least worth a tought.
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Velicitia
Open Designs
152
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Posted - 2011.12.04 00:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Yes, I agree that there needs to be a way to make it easier to interact with people ... but it's hard in this game where within weeks, you pretty much learn to not talk in local ... |
grazer gin
Raving Rednecks
22
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Posted - 2011.12.04 13:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
Camios wrote:If you are urged to comment on a thread, please read the OP and try to troll not so obviously
- I like ninja salvagers; I think that it should be easier to find mission runners in highsec, but this has nothing to do with ninja salvaging. You were misguided, try to read again.
- I know space is physically almost empty, of course, and you don't need a degree to read on wikipedia about the orders of magnitude of interstellar gas densities. I'm talking about human interaction, and it's pretty important since we're talking about an MMO and not about your favorite space documentary.
The point is that space may look empty of people and lifeless for a newbie, and a newbie should be able to interact and fly with anyone he likes and he is liked by. I hope you acknowledge there is a possible problem about socialization and involvement in the game; it is pretty evident that for some people EVE is hard because they could not find a proper corporation or a suitable company to enjoy his game. And why? Possibly because the mechanics are hiding the "expert" player from the newbies? I have exposed here a problem, an opinion, and a way to intervene on the situation. If you agree on the problem but not on the solution, let's discuss about this. If you don't think this is a real problem, well I hope you found my point to be at least worth a tought.
Obvious troll/whine is obvious try better wording next time 2/10
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Camios
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
20
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Posted - 2011.12.04 18:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Yes, I agree that there needs to be a way to make it easier to interact with people ... but it's hard in this game where within weeks, you pretty much learn to not talk in local ...
It depends, you don't type in local when you are part of a self sufficient group. When a new pilot is looking for advice or just exploring the world in highsec, that's a different situation.
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Xien Anh
Watanabe Heavy Industries
6
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Posted - 2011.12.04 19:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
Local chat is great when the subject is Bacon. Only a ginger can call a ginger a ginger! |
Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
220
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Posted - 2011.12.04 19:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
There should be some kind of general chat channel I live, I post, I slay. I am content. Alpha Flight --á an open-source initiative for newbies looking for PVP. Join channel ''Alpha Flight'' in game https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=40104 |
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Velicitia
Open Designs
159
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Posted - 2011.12.04 21:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
Camios wrote:Velicitia wrote:Yes, I agree that there needs to be a way to make it easier to interact with people ... but it's hard in this game where within weeks, you pretty much learn to not talk in local ... It depends, you don't type in local when you are part of a self sufficient group. When a new pilot is looking for advice or just exploring the world in highsec, that's a different situation.
and *WE* all know local is full of scammers and "newbs" looking for easy targets. That's the problem. |
Iosif Dzughasvilli
13 Rocks and Wrecks LTD. Vindication Mob
0
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Posted - 2011.12.05 08:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
I'm a relatively new player and I agree with this thread. While you may meet some nice people it is extremely difficult to actively engage with most of the EVE community as a new player.
EVE needs better low-level, socialized mission integration. Not to compare EVE to a terrible MMO, but WoW has got this going in the right direction with the dungeon finder. If there is missions that need you fleet up for increased ISK and item rewards it will do a much better of job of integrating the player base while also giving a benefit to those players who choose to work together. A UI option or moderated channel such as "Looking for Group" or even an option after accepting a mission to automatically queue for a fleet once enough players are ready would do the trick.
Understandably, loot will be a difficult thing to distribute fairly, but then again, when has CCP ever interfered with player interaction, particularly scams.
At any rate, some of the problems I can see arising from this is: Pirates making an alt and ganking new players, for the 'lulz'. This can be effectively combated by having a basic three strikes rule, if your account attacks/destroys a fleet member at a mission location, one strike, two strikes and then the third strike they're banned from fleeted missions.
Not enough new players. By having a Looking for Group option you would have to severely limit the number of missions available to ensure you're not sitting around doing nothing. Alternatively having more localized start areas would be ideal to a system like this. It would also be good to having a single start area and one connecting system for the first few. This way you can learn the basics in the first system and receive your ship, start doing solo missions in the second system and so on. It would impractical to make these mandatory however as players creating alt accounts would be un-thrilled by having to play the same tutorial over and over.
At any rate, this is just an idea I was having after talking to a friend who plays WoW and told me about the Raid Finder they've just created.
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Intar Medris
Viziam Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2011.12.05 10:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
You want empty. Try freaking null sec. Even in Alliances that number in the thosands you hardly ever see anyone. |
Ya Huei
Imperial Collective
34
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Posted - 2011.12.05 14:50:00 -
[14] - Quote
Get out of your NPC corp.
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Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5100
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Posted - 2011.12.05 17:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
I am compelled to disagree with this thread in its entirety.
The primary source of my game activity involves interacting with total strangers who may or may not be members of my corporation, aliance, or coalition. While it is true that I have been playing EVE for several years, the same cannot be said of the overwhelming majority of those persons with whom I interact. A lot of them are just a day or two, or perhaps a couple of weeks, into figuring out the game. One does not need to know the game well at all to find oneself joining a large and influential group of people eager to throw billions of ISK worth of liquid currency, ships and skillbooks at one's newbie education. What one requires for that is personal motivation and independent research, though belonging to certain out of game communities can also be a boon.
The major gripe that I see here, if I am to take this thread on face value, is that EVE Online does not spoon feed the newbie experience to people or provide a linear framework of "progression" towards clearly defined goals in the way that guild-based games such as EverQuest and World of Warcraft. I see no inherent problem in that. Just as the more charismatic, motivated, outgoing and research oriented people in those games are more likely to find themselves in top-end guilds owing to their personal qualities, so, too, are similarly qualified people likely in EVE Online to find themselves in positive and supportive environments with which to interact with other players and enjoy the game with no worry for the purse strings.
It is almost as though being a charismatic, motivated, outgoing and research oriented person gives one social advantages. Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM I am the Pubbie Whisperer |
Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
227
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Posted - 2011.12.05 17:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
I'm convinced, here's my security deposit and full API I live, I post, I slay. I am content.
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Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5100
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Posted - 2011.12.05 21:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:I'm convinced, here's my security deposit and full API I can't be arsed to log into EVE. Sky Captain of Your Heart; Lyris Chronicles of Narnia in the World of Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot Com; Good Poster Extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar : RIFTERSWARM I am the Pubbie Whisperer |
Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
228
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Posted - 2011.12.05 21:56:00 -
[18] - Quote
He had everything a boy could want Except the one thing he wanted the most Friends. I'm two months old and what is this
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Thredd Necro
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
67
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Posted - 2011.12.05 22:26:00 -
[19] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Douglas Adams wrote: Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
/thread
This. Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. - Douglas Adams |
Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
228
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Posted - 2011.12.05 22:34:00 -
[20] - Quote
Thredd Necro wrote:Velicitia wrote:Douglas Adams wrote: Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
/thread This.
There is only one force in the universe that possesses the ability of Thread Ending: moderators.
Velicitia is not one. Hence, the thread can continue.
I'm two months old and what is this
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Rina Asanari
State War Academy Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2011.12.06 08:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
Let me sum it up:
Tradehub local (e.g. Jita): Scams and scambots. Can be summarily dismissed.
Other local: Smacktalk as a precursor to a fight or from a sore loser. Sometimes worth a petition if it descends into racial (and I mean out-of-game) slurs or such.
Help channel: Most used response is "F12" or a variation thereof.
Corp/alliance channel (NPC): Sometimes quite worth a look if I'm really bored.
Corp/alliance channel (player): Mostly obsolete because of an outgame communications platform like TeamSpeak.
Anyone warping into the mission/ano/complex I'm currently in (not fleet/corp/alliance): Looking for a fight or trying to goad me into a fight.
So, player interaction in EvE? I can live without. If they buy what I'm putting up on the market or in contracts, I'm happy.
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Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
40
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Posted - 2011.12.07 11:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
Missions used to sometimes spawn a couple of 100km off of gates. It was pretty cool as a newbie to be traveling through a busy area and see a couple of ravens chucking missiles at 20+ battleships. This was before canstealing aggression and salvage too but the mission runners still whined because once in every 100 or so level 4s someone would come up and remote rep the rats. |
Camios
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
21
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Posted - 2011.12.07 14:12:00 -
[23] - Quote
Yeep wrote:Missions used to sometimes spawn a couple of 100km off of gates. It was pretty cool as a newbie to be traveling through a busy area and see a couple of ravens chucking missiles at 20+ battleships. This was before canstealing aggression and salvage too but the mission runners still whined because once in every 100 or so level 4s someone would come up and remote rep the rats.
Well I don't see any problem with this, isn't empire all about human interaction? And in my opinion these are things that a newbie likes to see.
If I, as a newbie, see 100 people on local chat then I expect to see a proportional level of activity, either in space or in station. If I see a lot of activity, I have the perception that there are a lot of things to do in the game, and the game is healthy, and moreover it looks like it's more immersive. What are all these folks doing? You get naturally curious.
Space is mysterious and dark, but with various gradations. High sec should *look* more friendly, full of player activity, a place where it's easy to socialise and it *feels* safe (I feel safer in 0.0), while lowsec and nullsec should feel more dangerous. |
Takara Mora
University of Caille Gallente Federation
19
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Posted - 2011.12.08 03:30:00 -
[24] - Quote
Rina Asanari wrote:Let me sum it up:
Tradehub local (e.g. Jita): Scams and scambots. Can be summarily dismissed.
Other local: Smacktalk as a precursor to a fight or from a sore loser. Sometimes worth a petition if it descends into racial (and I mean out-of-game) slurs or such.
Help channel: Most used response is "F12" or a variation thereof.
Corp/alliance channel (NPC): Sometimes quite worth a look if I'm really bored.
Corp/alliance channel (player): Mostly obsolete because of an outgame communications platform like TeamSpeak.
Anyone warping into the mission/ano/complex I'm currently in (not fleet/corp/alliance): Looking for a fight or trying to goad me into a fight.
So, player interaction in EvE? I can live without. If they buy what I'm putting up on the market or in contracts, I'm happy.
Yep, almost 90% of players interacting with players in EVE sucks ***ss .... just like real life .... but a little too much like real life, since why would I want to pay to play a game that is just as bad as real life?
Luckily the other 10% is better than real life ....
It's pretty difficult to find anyone you can actually trust in EVE .... would be nice if there was a better way ... just not sure if there is. |
Wolodymyr
Mando'a Navy Controlled Chaos
12
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Posted - 2011.12.08 19:05:00 -
[25] - Quote
ALL of these problems go away when you join a small to moderate sized corp. Anything with 10-20 active members at any given time.
You get a small group of people who have to get along just out of pure enlightened self interest.
Most people care about their little circle of people they know, and everyone else can die in a fire.
I have ended up downloading the demo and then quitting several times in the past until I finally joined a player corp.
I really wish the tutorial flat out told you at the end, "This game is only fun with friends. Now that you know how to fly your ship, your next important goal is to get in a corp and make some friends." |
DeBingJos
T.R.I.A.D
152
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Posted - 2011.12.20 07:57:00 -
[26] - Quote
Takara Mora wrote: Yep, almost 90% of players interacting with players in EVE sucks ***ss .... just like real life .... but a little too much like real life, since why would I want to pay to play a game that is just as bad as real life?
Luckily the other 10% is better than real life ....
It's pretty difficult to find anyone you can actually trust in EVE .... would be nice if there was a better way ... just not sure if there is.
It is not hard to find people you can trust. I've been in a lot of corps since I started playing EVE and I have not been scammed once.
Don't trust some unknown guy in local, but your corpmates in general are ok. (Unless you've been in some really ****** corps) Fix FW ! |
Velicitia
Open Designs
222
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Posted - 2011.12.20 15:19:00 -
[27] - Quote
Wolodymyr wrote: I think the trick might be to reduce the amount of places in a system people can warp to. If you have a room with a fixed amount of people in it, the only way to make the room feel more crowded is to make the room smaller.
I'd reduce the emphasis on mission running in the game since it sends you to a private instance that only you and your fleet can get to.
um ... probe them out and say "hi" (then salvage the wrecks).
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Takara Mora
University of Caille Gallente Federation
22
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Posted - 2011.12.20 15:25:00 -
[28] - Quote
DeBingJos wrote:
It is not hard to find people you can trust. I've been in a lot of corps since I started playing EVE and I have not been scammed once.
Don't trust some unknown guy in local, but your corpmates in general are ok. (Unless you've been in some really ****** corps)
Oh I get it ... you're a scammer trying to get us to trust you, aren't you? :) hehehe
Yeah in general I bet most people CAN be trusted ... but in practice, you have to assume NO ONE can ... including corp recruiting. |
DeBingJos
T.R.I.A.D
152
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Posted - 2011.12.20 15:30:00 -
[29] - Quote
Takara Mora wrote:DeBingJos wrote:
It is not hard to find people you can trust. I've been in a lot of corps since I started playing EVE and I have not been scammed once.
Don't trust some unknown guy in local, but your corpmates in general are ok. (Unless you've been in some really ****** corps)
Oh I get it ... you're a scammer trying to get us to trust you, aren't you? :) hehehe Yeah in general I bet most people CAN be trusted ... but in practice, you have to assume NO ONE can ... including corp recruiting.
There are several levels of trust.
Would I trust my corpmembers with one of my generic pvp-ships. Yes Would I trust them with all my assets. No
Most people in your corp can be trusted with more than you might think. Fix FW ! |
Rina Asanari
State War Academy Caldari State
29
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Posted - 2011.12.21 10:26:00 -
[30] - Quote
DeBingJos wrote:There are several levels of trust.
Would I trust my corpmembers with one of my generic pvp-ships. Yes Would I trust them with all my assets. No
Most people in your corp can be trusted with more than you might think.
Trust in EvE has to be earned. Whoever gives it away freely is just asking to be scammed.
And yes, I myself trust my corp mates only as far as I can set up a contract and expect them to accept it, though I usually do keep my promise once given. Which is rare enough.
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