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In defence of GTC for ISK

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ObiDoom Kenobi Gallente The Senators of The Confederation	Posted - 2006.10.23 21:23:00 - [1] I see threads all the time about how GTC cards for ISK is bad for the game. I wanted to go out on a limb for a moment and explain why I like it. I donÆt do it as of now. I simply donÆt make enough ISK that I can spend it like that nor am I so short ISK that I need to buy it with GTC. That being said, I think that the system is brilliant. I canÆt think of another game that allows you to play to pay. The play to pay is standard faire, paying $15 or something to play the game. But the GTC deals actually allow players that are veterans or players that spend dozens of hours a week playing to pay for their subscription with in game currency. I think itÆs genius, and it probably keeps a lot of people in the game that otherwise wouldnÆt be able to afford it. The other thing that I think is smart about it is that even though some portion of the player base is ôpayingö using in game currency that money isnÆt lost to CCP because someone is paying the real currency. So, I like the GTC for ISK system. I think it does more good then harm and I think itÆs legitimately innovative.
Neveren Caldari The Taining corp Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.10.23 21:25:00 - [2] it does more harm then good.
Valan	Posted - 2006.10.23 21:26:00 - [3] Edited by: Valan on 23/10/2006 21:26:34 Which is why as a GTC hater I have to accept its needed until I can think of an alternative. However, I think its naive to think all this trade is created by people just buying ISK through a GTC which inadvertently helps another palyer. I reckon it helps the laundering trade. Hence I would like sellers to be registered. Linkage I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on.
necronarcosis	Posted - 2006.10.23 21:26:00 - [4] Edited by: necronarcosis on 23/10/2006 21:26:36 Originally by: ObiDoom Kenobi I see threads all the time about how GTC cards for ISK is bad for the game. I wanted to go out on a limb for a moment and explain why I like it. I donÆt do it as of now. I simply donÆt make enough ISK that I can spend it like that nor am I so short ISK that I need to buy it with GTC. That being said, I think that the system is brilliant. I canÆt think of another game that allows you to play to pay. The play to pay is standard faire, paying $15 or something to play the game. But the GTC deals actually allow players that are veterans or players that spend dozens of hours a week playing to pay for their subscription with in game currency. I think itÆs genius, and it probably keeps a lot of people in the game that otherwise wouldnÆt be able to afford it. The other thing that I think is smart about it is that even though some portion of the player base is ôpayingö using in game currency that money isnÆt lost to CCP because someone is paying the real currency. So, I like the GTC for ISK system. I think it does more good then harm and I think itÆs legitimately innovative. hands obidoom a flame suit and runs for the hills omg
Major Stormer Caldari Demon Womb	Posted - 2006.10.23 21:27:00 - [5] Originally by: Neveren it does more harm then good. Now, im against GTC (becuase I personally dont think that ingame should effect outofgame unless designed like so, which eve was not), but please, ****, or get off the pot (inotherwords be constructive and say why you think that. -------------------------- Ahh.......Freedom....I love Fountian........
Hakera Anari Higard	Posted - 2006.10.23 21:34:00 - [6] Originally by: Major Stormer Originally by: Neveren it does more harm then good. Now, im against GTC (becuase I personally dont think that ingame should effect outofgame unless designed like so, which eve was not), but please, ****, or get off the pot (inotherwords be constructive and say why you think that. doesnt really need explaining, your buying your way through the game with real life money. Cheating and devaluing everyone elses hard work who use normal ingame mechanics. No item ingame should ever be obtained using real money.
w0rmy Intensive CareBearz	Posted - 2006.10.23 21:35:00 - [7] Originally by: Neveren it does more harm then good. How? The isk already exists, GTC simply transfers the isk from one persons account to anothers. No additional ISK is being created by the trading of GTC. So spread some light onto this as to how it is bad for the game? Originally by: Avon Originally by: Dark Shikari What single item is larger than a jetcan? My ego?
Galk Gallente Autumn Tactics	Posted - 2006.10.23 21:40:00 - [8] Edited by: Galk on 23/10/2006 21:42:04 Harm than good.. What he means is... ccp make continious in game balances for the good of the game based on that principle. Such as a few weeks ago... they change the game so that cap ships can no longer enter mission gates. We are told that it was never intended, unblanced the game (kieron).... where's the challenge (wrangler) ect.... Now im quite sure it was 'never intended' for people to mass sell timecodes to gain massive amounts of isk.... Where's the challenge in that There is no defence, only ignorance Edit* Wormy... so on your example then.. you would have nothing against ebay ______
Ralus eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.23 21:47:00 - [9] In fairness w0rmy right, unlike macroing and farming its not creating excess isk thats bloating the in game ecconomy its just large transfer of existing isk within the game enviroment. Think of it like paying someone for game advice, or doing a job for you like hauling.
Quutar Caldari Uxor Infensus	Posted - 2006.10.23 21:49:00 - [10] When I first heard about the GTC<->ISK sales... I thought this was something official in game, and at the time it made perfect sence to me... it was an ISK sink for the hard core players. But in retrospect, if CCP did the GTC<->ISK conversion, it would most likely be a static fixed price and would not adjust to inflation. For example... when in game alliances were first formed, a billion isk was a huge chunk of change, while now many many private individuals have more than that. Making the GTC<->ISK conversion player based, it raises the price based on demand, and CCP still get its money for the month's subscription, just from someone else. Personally I would love it if CCP had an official in game ISK sink that would pay for your subscription. I just can't think of a way to do it properly. sonofabeachballbouncingmarymotherfiretrucker
Bricktop72	Posted - 2006.10.23 21:49:00 - [11] Originally by: ObiDoom Kenobi I canÆt think of another game that allows you to play to pay. The play to pay is standard faire, paying $15 or something to play the game. Puzzle Pirates uses a play to pay system, on some servers. It is a bit different as it uses micro payments. You buy the micro payment money "dubs" and use them to just buy what you want to play. Buying a frig cost a little. Buying a battleship equivlent was equivlent to a month long subscription. Or you could just trade them to other players. The addition of in game poker/gambling made the market very interesting to play.
Lord Slater Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.10.23 22:06:00 - [12] If you really need cash i advise you tru hauling missions. The reason being you get them done faster and you get more storyline missions with juicy implant rewards. I get on average 1 billion a month doing this in high sec so i dont really use GTC's ----------------------------------------------- YYAARRHH HAHAHA IM THE HAPPY PIRATE
framolia Gallente The Breakfast Club	Posted - 2006.10.23 22:08:00 - [13] Try being on a low income and having 4 kids! I was bought my first GTC as a present and after that i can only use isk. Some of us don't have top jobs and mummy and daddies with loads of cash. Welcome to the real world
empirebuilder	Posted - 2006.10.23 22:11:00 - [14] as an occasional seller of GTC ill make a point clear for along time i used GTC to pay for the game, didnt have to but why spend my $$ when i had a crapload of isk. i had freinds who couldnt afford to always pay for the game so they too would buy the gtc's both of us would buy them but for totally different reasons, i pay yearly now so i guess i pay to make isk that i could buy a GTC with but instead i buy and sell stuff in eve with the isk, i also buy gtc's every now and then when some of my freinds are low on RL cash and can afford 1 account but not 2 or more. am i evil because i sell the extra to players who might not be able to pay? ive had several GTC seller alts i assume they are alts spam me with eve mails to buy large amounts but i only get like 4 max at a time. and to say it inflates the economy is just stupid, example: player a has 3 accounts and is a college student with little spare cash but lots of spare time player b has little spare time and some spare RL cash player b buys 3 90 day GTC to sell for isk, the reason he does it is his or her own, player a buys them for 1.05 bil isk he had made doing agent missions the isk never leaves the game if player b isnt ebaying and im pretty sure the low volume sellers arnt ebaying you cant say player b is now making prices go up. player a could of just as easily bought what ever item player b did. ill let you flame the people who cant always afford everything they want, as wish i had that much knowledge
Skooney Gallente Universal Agencies Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.10.23 22:24:00 - [15] Originally by: framolia Try being on a low income and having 4 kids! I was bought my first GTC as a present and after that i can only use isk. Some of us don't have top jobs and mummy and daddies with loads of cash. Welcome to the real world So you buy GTC's? What is the problem? You don't like the fact you might be buying a GTC from some one with a better job then you? I do not understand your point? Also what does having 4 kids have to do with playing EVE? I have a cat! Welcome to the real world? We still playing a game? Universal Agencies
w0rmy Intensive CareBearz	Posted - 2006.10.23 22:30:00 - [16] Originally by: Galk Wormy... so on your example then.. you would have nothing against ebay.. jonny farms his isk to sell for timecodes (or lets just call it financial gain... what it is) Jonny farms his isk to sell on ebay for financial gain.. You pointed out the difference for me "Jonny farms his isk" In the transaction you mention above, it is the farming of the isk which causes the game harm. Whos hands it ends up in doesnt. I dont like people who play on game mechanics/macros/hacks/whatever to farm isk. But I dont have a problem with those who earn their isk legitly, trading some of it for a free months eve. Its not the selling/trading of ISK that impacts players... Its the farming of it. Originally by: Avon Originally by: Dark Shikari What single item is larger than a jetcan? My ego?
T Range	Posted - 2006.10.23 22:34:00 - [17] Edited by: T Range on 23/10/2006 22:36:37 Alt because I'm shy. Why is it bad if someone is selling her/his ISK for real money (on eBay) anyway? To earn for living by playing? Dream come true? Now, if I understand correctly, some are worried about, hm, this example: * Joe buys GTC for $15 Joe sells this GTC ingame for 150 million ISK Joe sells 150 million ISK on eBay for $20 Budget balance: +$5 Joe has just earned his lunch for the day. Joe happy, repeat tomorrow. * Now question, why should I buy ISK from eBay for $5 more then I could make the GTC trade myself? Stupid me? :P The ingame inflation is inevitable, with or without it. Enlighten me.. first time I bother reading about this kind of topic. And yes, I'm one of those who trades ISK for GTC. Just because a month in Eve = food for a week for me.
empirebuilder	Posted - 2006.10.23 22:36:00 - [18] Originally by: T Range Alt because I'm shy. Why is it bad if someone is selling her/his ISK for real money (on eBay) anyway? To earn for living by playing? Dream come true? Now, if I understand correctly, some are worried about, hm, this example: * Joe buys GTC for $15 Joe sells this GTC ingame for 150 million ISK Joe sells 150 million ISK on eBay for $20 Budget balance: +$5 Joe has just earned his lunch for the day. Joe happy, repeat tomorrow. * Now question, why should I buy ISK from eBay for $5 more then I could make the GTC trade myself? Stupid me? :P Enlighten me.. first time I bother reading about this kind of topic. And yes, I'm one of those who trades ISK for GTC. Just because a month in Eve = food for a week for me. selling isk for RL cash is agisnt the EULA, thats why it isnt allowed nor wanted in the game
T Range	Posted - 2006.10.23 22:39:00 - [19] Originally by: empirebuilder Originally by: T Range my post selling isk for RL cash is agisnt the EULA, thats why it isnt allowed nor wanted in the game Yes, but why? :P
empirebuilder	Posted - 2006.10.23 22:43:00 - [20] Originally by: T Range Originally by: empirebuilder Originally by: T Range my post selling isk for RL cash is agisnt the EULA, thats why it isnt allowed nor wanted in the game Yes, but why? :P because the people who own the game say so :)
T Range	Posted - 2006.10.23 23:00:00 - [21] Well, CCP can trace every action ingame, as far as I know. Scan evemails for phrases like "short in ISK?" etc. Hire 3.5 people to visit eBay and find the ISK sellers. Ban the account. Ban the IP. Ban the buddy who sent the invitation (and free trial). Ban the one who bought that ISK. Probably not that easy at all, I know... just that... ... don't make me starve for a week
Ogdru Jahad Amarr	Posted - 2006.10.23 23:29:00 - [22] I dont mind Sales of GTC's for ingame cash BUT! prices are getting out of hand. Also Alts selling gtc's and all the so called good aprovals are from other alts. scam or ashamed I dont care! - Think your having a bad day? Imagine this, Your a siamese Twin joined at the hip,Your brother is *** & your not, His lover is comming around and you only have one bottom.
Tammarr	Posted - 2006.10.24 00:05:00 - [23] So... I wouldnt be farming for isk if there were no gtcs? Lets see here... Oh I know I would have a faction ship every two weeks with decent amount of faction gear to use to its fullest instead... ehm... no, I would probably just hoard it anyhow, for the time when I ... well, you know... I realy like that... I would like to have that... things. Now I just give others the oppurtunity to spend money on various items they would never be able to afford in game because they have 9-5 works and no time to play eve, they still get the same skills as us "hardcore" but they dont get the isk to have fun with due to their real life time restrictions. So... real life time investments shouldnt buy you perks in game... lets all get only one hour per day to play eve, that will level the field =) This is why gtcs are realy great. Now rumours creep up about missusing of the intended system. But giving Joe who works 9 hours a day and plays eve 5 hours a week the chance to put his skills to use, let him fly the ships his unemployed friends can afford? I have no problem with that. Peace.
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Nova Republic	Posted - 2006.10.24 00:54:00 - [24] Originally by: Neveren it does more harm then good. For some definition of "harm" that CCP does not share with you. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Kldraina	Posted - 2006.10.24 01:41:00 - [25] I think the real problem is the isk for cash transfer, since it results in people joining to make RL money, instead of joining to play the game.
zibelthurdos	Posted - 2006.10.24 02:15:00 - [26] Edited by: zibelthurdos on 24/10/2006 02:20:35 Edited by: zibelthurdos on 24/10/2006 02:15:40 i also sell the occasional gtc, i do understand it supports the farmers, and most likely the macro's that i can't apologise for. the reason i do it is because for the most part i am a weekend player. and have a job, wife and son. everyone keeps talking about making millions, scratch that. Billions per week running haul missions. i wish i had the time to do that. but i don't so i sell maybe 2 timecodes a month to make up for it. does that make me evil, no. IRL we buy gas, which comes from oil that is bought from people who may or may not be funding terrorist groups who kill my fellow americans. sorry if you feel this is all wrong, but in the eyes of some of us it is necessary. and yes, this is my main. and if ccp ever came up a registry of known nonmacro- nonfarmer gtc sellers i would be all for it.
w0rmy Intensive CareBearz	Posted - 2006.10.24 02:32:00 - [27] Originally by: Tammarr This is why gtcs are realy great. Now rumours creep up about missusing of the intended system. But giving Joe who works 9 hours a day and plays eve 5 hours a week the chance to put his skills to use, let him fly the ships his unemployed friends can afford? I have no problem with that. I think youre exactly right. I work hard, I work long hours, I cannot Farm rats/Farm Complexes/Farm this/Farm that 23/7 like a lot of the unemployable bums who play this game. Id like to be able to play eve enough each day, to afford a new BS all the time, but unfortunately, when I have a busy month with work, I may need buy and trade a GTC to keep myself playing. People complain theres too little willing PVP participants... hey im willing! But just dont cry when I use GTC to be able to afford to keep fighting you. I use my real life cash not to gain an advantage on you, but to even the playing fields. Me, in a ship gives you more targets... isnt that exactly what we all want? More people with the ability to PVP? Originally by: Avon Originally by: Dark Shikari What single item is larger than a jetcan? My ego?
zibelthurdos	Posted - 2006.10.24 02:37:00 - [28] sorry for reposting, but damnit... here here /signed
Ras Blumin 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.24 02:57:00 - [29] Originally by: w0rmy No additional ISK is being created by the trading of GTC. Jo uses his 4 accounts (all fueled by gtc) to afk haul trade goods. Had isk -> gtc not been possible, he would only be willing to pay for 2 accounts. 100% more isk created.
ObiDoom Kenobi Gallente The Senators of The Confederation Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.28 21:49:00 - [30] Originally by: Ras Blumin Jo uses his 4 accounts (all fueled by gtc) to afk haul trade goods. Had isk -> gtc not been possible, he would only be willing to pay for 2 accounts. 100% more isk created. All due respect, but so what? If someone decides that they're going to farm enough ISK in order to run four accounts how much actual farming does that entail? At an assumed rate of 200 million ISk per account per month (just a guess) that means that it takes about 10 billion ISK to "pay" for four accounts for an entire year. I'll bet the Ebay type farmers do that much in a week. Plus, there's something more palatable about farming enough ISK in order to run more accounts and play the game more then there is about farming as a way to make real life money. I don't really mind the people that want to farm just to pay their account fee.

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