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Marech Bhayanaka
ISKING
4
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Posted - 2015.04.05 01:50:05 -
[1] - Quote
I've been reading recruitment threads recently, and of course many of them mention security checks, which makes sense in a game full of spies and betrayals. But today I thought about it a bit and realized I have no idea what the checkers are looking before, beyond the obvious "Did he work for the enemy."
Are there things I (and others) should avoid doing because they would make it harder to find a corp in the future?
Marech. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
8293
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Posted - 2015.04.05 01:56:58 -
[2] - Quote
Delete everything in your mail folder before applying.
Other than that, let them have their fun and then change your API key.
Mr Epeen 
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
35539
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Posted - 2015.04.05 02:04:25 -
[3] - Quote
OP, I wouldn't try to tailor your gameplay to make you recruitable at some point in the future.
Just play how you want to play and when you come to applying for a Corp, there are Corps out there to match every playstyle. It's just a matter of finding the one that matches how you play, rather than being worried about your past being a barrier to recruitment (it'll be an asset if you apply to the right Corp).
As a recruiter myself who actively speaks to other recruiters regularly, in most cases, Corps say they conduct security checks, but in reality a large number of them do next to nothing.
Those that do conduct security checks have their own approach, so it is difficult to outline a single set of things they will look for. What they look for depends largely on what the Corp does to begin with.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Chewytowel Haklar
Project RESET
132
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Posted - 2015.04.05 02:13:30 -
[4] - Quote
As far as I am aware private messages can't be viewed by them which in my opinion makes the full API thing laughable. But I suppose those that don't care or aren't paying attention will perhaps have information discovered about them. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
35540
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Posted - 2015.04.05 02:52:57 -
[5] - Quote
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:As far as I am aware private messages can't be viewed by them which in my opinion makes the full API thing laughable. But I suppose those that don't care or aren't paying attention will perhaps have information discovered about them.
If you mean chat conversations, yes they are not available as the logs are stored locally.
If you mean mail messages, no they can be read from a full API.
You can test this yourself, just create a new full API, put it into API Jacknife and click along the menu at the top (mail will show you the mail messages, which you can then read):
http://ridetheclown.com/eveapi/audit.php
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Hengle Teron
Just Another Corp XIV
44790
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Posted - 2015.04.05 03:01:03 -
[6] - Quote
The first thing to check is probably if and who's alt are you.
You can see it by the source of the income of the applicant. |
Valkin Mordirc
845
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Posted - 2015.04.05 03:07:36 -
[7] - Quote
When I was doing things like this, I would check mails, to see who you are talking to, pretty easy to hide though just delete your mails, but an empty mail box is also a big red sign if are up to nefarious deeds delete the mails that are incriminating rather than purging the entirety of it all.
Checking Assets is another good way to figure out somethings. People who have been playing for 1+ years who tend to have ALOT of things, tend to be mains. While alts have only a few ships and such.
Wallet history is another good way. See if anybody is send large amounts of isk to somebody else can show alt hood.
Also if some deletes their API after, it another sign they might be trying to hide something.
If you are not up to no good though. Then it's just a good idea to keep yourself open and honest.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Dots
State Protectorate
Caldari State
41
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Posted - 2015.04.05 03:33:57 -
[8] - Quote
Unless you are training to be a spy, I would suggest you don't deal in deception at all. Life is just simpler that way.
everything is better with ߦêߦÆߦù-ó on it
New Player Opportunities: a gallery
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Vyl Vit
1161
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Posted - 2015.04.05 03:41:24 -
[9] - Quote
The way you know if you can trust somebody is by trusting them.
With majority rule, the majority dictates the form things take. Since those who excel are always in the minority, their vision never prevails. Rather, you have the tyranny of the mediocre in a democracy. The progeny of democracy comprise this player base, so guess what...
There are those who are convinced they must "investigate" someone "to be sure." One thing these folks are for sure about is, they're not very bright and couldn't really tell you whom you can trust and whom you can't, so they pretend procedures (they can't really explain to you) takes out the "human" element. By "human" we're supposed to believe "prone to fail."
The way you find out who you can trust is by trusting them. If they prove themselves trustworthy, then they are. If not, then not. This "investigation" has more to do with the ignorance of those claiming to use it than it does with any player's behavior. I run spies. That's what I do. (Obviously, not on this toon.) Gaining trust is how it's done. Nothing appearing in any so-called "investigation" of any EVE data reveals anything useful, but as long as who I am duping is looking there, they aren't looking where they should be, so further....this way of thinking makes one vulnerable to spies who know their business.
Play your game the way you see fit. Don't bend to the truisms and "wisdom" of so-called veteran players. Realize, there are hundreds of very experienced management-level players who understand well how all of this is done. You may not look "trustworthy" to one of those idiots mentioned above, but if you play a good game, train well, and are honest, the ones who do know will know and that's all you really need.
Enjoy the game. Ignore ignorance.
Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
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Darren Airtex
Born Imperialism
18
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Posted - 2015.04.05 04:43:47 -
[10] - Quote
Never underestimate the power of stupid when it is in a group. |
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Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries
Goonswarm Federation
967
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Posted - 2015.04.05 05:08:54 -
[11] - Quote
Scipio and Dots hit it on the head. Unless you plan on making a permanent change to your playstyle that actually suits you, don't avoid doing anything just because random corp number 43259832475 might not approve of it.
I've always played this game exactly how I wanted to, and it just so happened that my desires lined up with a few decent corporations along the way. I don't hide anything, and I've never felt compelled to lie about anything to anyone.
Christ, I'd make a horrible spy. |
Mithandra
Catastrophic Operations
Nulli Secunda
246
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Posted - 2015.04.05 07:25:15 -
[12] - Quote
API keys deliver a lot of good information, not just who you've been evemailing.
No system of checks is perfect however.
EVE pilots are tricksie little hobbitsis and WILL find a way to hide their nefarious practices if their intent is malodorous.
API Key checking should be used with a rigorous corp security policy.
Trust no one verify everything, and don't make someone a director unless you either know them, or have met them and have an address, and know where their wife does her shopping and their kids go to school.
Even totally "clean" characters raise alarm bells. As a recruiter, yes, I am that paranoid
Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community
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Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force
The Kadeshi
2396
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Posted - 2015.04.05 08:24:18 -
[13] - Quote
Marech Bhayanaka wrote:I've been reading recruitment threads recently, and of course many of them mention security checks, which makes sense in a game full of spies and betrayals. But today I thought about it a bit and realized I have no idea what the checkers are looking before, beyond the obvious "Did he work for the enemy."
Are there things I (and others) should avoid doing because they would make it harder to find a corp in the future?
Marech.
It's more than just "Did he work for the enemy?" but much more. Did you ever contact the enemy? Are you fresh out of an NPC corp? Did you recently receive/send a large sum of money from/to an odd source? Have you ever fought allies? Do you change corps very often? Did you recently create contracts specifically for a suspicious person or an outright enemy? Have you ever been part of a corp known for spying/awoxing?
The list goes on a little futher, and a good recruiter will be checking for all of these things. Honestly though, if you aren't a spy or awoxer and don't intend to ever be one, then you shouldn't run into trouble. That said, the best recruiters are paranoid as hell and will suspect you until they no longer need to.
Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
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Kestrix
Bedlam Escapees
Silent Requiem
178
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Posted - 2015.04.05 09:53:09 -
[14] - Quote
Marech Bhayanaka wrote:I've been reading recruitment threads recently, and of course many of them mention security checks, which makes sense in a game full of spies and betrayals. But today I thought about it a bit and realized I have no idea what the checkers are looking before, beyond the obvious "Did he work for the enemy."
Are there things I (and others) should avoid doing because they would make it harder to find a corp in the future?
Marech.
Alts in this game make security checks a joke and take away any and all consequences of spying and betrayals as it is next to impossible to link a disposable alt on one account to a valued main on another that has a valued reputation. |
Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries
Goonswarm Federation
972
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Posted - 2015.04.05 14:21:27 -
[15] - Quote
Kestrix wrote:Marech Bhayanaka wrote:I've been reading recruitment threads recently, and of course many of them mention security checks, which makes sense in a game full of spies and betrayals. But today I thought about it a bit and realized I have no idea what the checkers are looking before, beyond the obvious "Did he work for the enemy."
Are there things I (and others) should avoid doing because they would make it harder to find a corp in the future?
Marech. Alts in this game make security checks a joke and take away any and all consequences of spying and betrayals as it is next to impossible to link a disposable alt on one account to a valued main on another that has a valued reputation.
I wouldn't go that far. /whistle |
Trajan Unknown
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
7
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Posted - 2015.04.05 15:33:13 -
[16] - Quote
I always delete my mails after a short time. I don-¦t like a crowded mailbox so why should I keep them?
If people think that this behaviour is suspicious talk to my hand :D
As if good spies would use bloody mails to communicate, seriously, how stupid someone can be?
edit: Forget my last question. |
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
199
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Posted - 2015.04.05 23:47:59 -
[17] - Quote
Kestrix wrote:Marech Bhayanaka wrote:I've been reading recruitment threads recently, and of course many of them mention security checks, which makes sense in a game full of spies and betrayals. But today I thought about it a bit and realized I have no idea what the checkers are looking before, beyond the obvious "Did he work for the enemy."
Are there things I (and others) should avoid doing because they would make it harder to find a corp in the future?
Marech. Alts in this game make security checks a joke and take away any and all consequences of spying and betrayals as it is next to impossible to link a disposable alt on one account to a valued main on another that has a valued reputation.
Actually its not that hard.....and it really depends on how disposable that alt is hmmm? Hint: watch for the ones that keep having contact with those seemingly getting doomheimed, sold, or just plain inactve for eternity all the time. |
Pok Nibin
Filial Pariahs
679
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Posted - 2015.04.06 01:23:14 -
[18] - Quote
Vyl Vit wrote:The way you know if you can trust somebody is by trusting them.
With majority rule, the majority dictates the form things take. Since those who excel are always in the minority, their vision never prevails. Rather, you have the tyranny of the mediocre in a democracy. The progeny of democracy comprise this player base, so guess what...
There are those who are convinced they must "investigate" someone "to be sure." One thing these folks are for sure about is, they're not very bright and couldn't really tell you whom you can trust and whom you can't, so they pretend procedure (they can't really explain to you) takes out the "human" element. By "human" we're supposed to believe "prone to fail."
The way you find out who you can trust is by trusting them. If they prove themselves trustworthy, then they are. If not, then not. This "investigation" has more to do with the ignorance of those claiming to use it than it does with any player's behavior. I run spies. That's what I do. (Obviously, not on this toon.) Gaining trust is how it's done. Nothing appearing in any so-called "investigation" of any EVE data reveals anything useful, but as long as who I am duping is looking there, they aren't looking where they should be, so further....this way of thinking makes one vulnerable to spies who know their business.
Play your game the way you see fit. Don't bend to the truisms and "wisdom" of so-called veteran players. Realize, there are hundreds of very experienced management-level players who understand well how all of this is done. You may not look "trustworthy" to one of those idiots mentioned above, but if you play a good game, train well, and are honest, the ones who do know will know and that's all you really need.
Enjoy the game. Ignore ignorance. This is very well written. It's worth the read for that alone. The truth in it is profound, though, making it +2. You de man. Now, see how many ignore it and your point is proved by reality itself, as it should be.
The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.
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Marech Bhayanaka
ISKING
5
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Posted - 2015.04.06 04:51:06 -
[19] - Quote
Lots of interesting responses above. Thank you all!
One more question ... I came across one otherwise attractive looking corp that specifies they want a non-expiring API key. I believe this would give them ongoing access to my email. I don't plan any shenanigans, but this seemed a bit creepy.
Is this a commonly accepted practice?
Marech. |
Valkin Mordirc
847
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Posted - 2015.04.06 04:59:48 -
[20] - Quote
Also to the OP.
API keys and such are not always used to check if your an evil goonswarm/pl/randomcorp1522452 spy, I also used my to keep track of new player skills, using EVEboard, you can help guide people into getting the right skills find things they might be missing, or use it evaluate your corp and form doctrines around it.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Sykaotic
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
20
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Posted - 2015.04.06 10:47:14 -
[21] - Quote
Marech Bhayanaka wrote:Lots of interesting responses above. Thank you all!
One more question ... I came across one otherwise attractive looking corp that specifies they want a non-expiring API key. I believe this would give them ongoing access to my email. I don't plan any shenanigans, but this seemed a bit creepy.
Is this a commonly accepted practice?
Marech.
When I played 5 years ago.... it was extremely rare to see a corp ad for "Full Api", but durring the last 2 years or so it seems to have snowballed into many wanting full api.
This is more of a monkey see monkey do mind set.
With that said, now some corps are starting to require a "non-expiring API key" an while this may be * justifiable* for those with corporate roles, it is 100% tottaly rediculous for for an average "corpie".
As a matter of fact, I recommend that you do not give out a "non-expiring API key" and be just as cautious as the corps are in which of them you share your info with.
I say this as the real mechanic of the api check is like a background check in a job, or a drug test in that if you are dirty you won't attempt to apply and saves corp leaders from headaces.
But..... on the other side of the coin the information gained from you through an api check could be used in a nefarious way at some time.... against you.
So, do study the corp very well first before you even begin to consider giving out your api. Are they trustworthy to have your data? It should be the absolute last thing you do i.e. give out your api when you are considering corps... it goes both ways.
GL |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
5960
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Posted - 2015.04.06 10:53:55 -
[22] - Quote
Pok Nibin wrote:Vyl Vit wrote:The way you know if you can trust somebody is by trusting them.
With majority rule, the majority dictates the form things take. Since those who excel are always in the minority, their vision never prevails. Rather, you have the tyranny of the mediocre in a democracy. The progeny of democracy comprise this player base, so guess what...
There are those who are convinced they must "investigate" someone "to be sure." One thing these folks are for sure about is, they're not very bright and couldn't really tell you whom you can trust and whom you can't, so they pretend procedure (they can't really explain to you) takes out the "human" element. By "human" we're supposed to believe "prone to fail."
The way you find out who you can trust is by trusting them. If they prove themselves trustworthy, then they are. If not, then not. This "investigation" has more to do with the ignorance of those claiming to use it than it does with any player's behavior. I run spies. That's what I do. (Obviously, not on this toon.) Gaining trust is how it's done. Nothing appearing in any so-called "investigation" of any EVE data reveals anything useful, but as long as who I am duping is looking there, they aren't looking where they should be, so further....this way of thinking makes one vulnerable to spies who know their business.
Play your game the way you see fit. Don't bend to the truisms and "wisdom" of so-called veteran players. Realize, there are hundreds of very experienced management-level players who understand well how all of this is done. You may not look "trustworthy" to one of those idiots mentioned above, but if you play a good game, train well, and are honest, the ones who do know will know and that's all you really need.
Enjoy the game. Ignore ignorance. This is very well written. It's worth the read for that alone. The truth in it is profound, though, making it +2. You de man. Now, see how many ignore it and your point is proved by reality itself, as it should be.
Agreeing with yourself - classy.
API checks are good for weeding out bad spies. They don't indicate trustworthiness, nor do they catch everything. But they catch some things - and if a corp doesn't at least perform this basic scrutiny, can YOU really trust THEM?
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
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Nors Phlebas Sabelhpsron
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
96
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Posted - 2015.04.06 11:41:05 -
[23] - Quote
Marech Bhayanaka wrote:Lots of interesting responses above. Thank you all!
One more question ... I came across one otherwise attractive looking corp that specifies they want a non-expiring API key. I believe this would give them ongoing access to my email. I don't plan any shenanigans, but this seemed a bit creepy.
Is this a commonly accepted practice?
Marech.
Fairly, yes. You'll find most serious corps will demand a full, no-expiry API these days. I strongly recommend you don't do as Epeen suggests and change your API key to get around this; I certainly check to see if applicants I have accepted have done this and if any do they'll be getting an immediate punt, I imagine other corp recruitment teams do the same thing.
Scipio's advice is tops - don't try to hide anything in your API if you're applying to a corp with honest intentions. Anyone who finds your past objectionable is not for you anyway, so sod them. The guys closest to your playstyle, who'll want to fly with you, will be the ones who find the things in your past to be an asset. |
Don Purple
Snuggle Society.
1154
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Posted - 2015.04.07 09:05:10 -
[24] - Quote
Just always be honest :D
If you get rejected because you are telling the truth then you probably don't want to fly with them anyways.
Been in a few corps now even when they know I am a spy/awoxer/corp thief.
Had a blast with a lot of good people even met some of them IRL.
I am just here to snuggle and do spy stuff.
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Eve Solecist
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
591
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Posted - 2015.04.07 09:20:17 -
[25] - Quote
If a corp demands your full API then tell them to sod off and go find a better corp.
They are idiots for believing it will do them any good.
API keys make it easy to completely screw you over
with just ONE single mail that makes you look like an awoxer.
Full API keys prevent nothing and no one has a right to sniff through your private convos.
Tell them to feck off.
This one is one of my better posts. You should see the others ....
"I've tried to give up making sexual innuendos. But it's hard, so hard." -RoAnnon
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Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
984
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Posted - 2015.04.07 09:22:24 -
[26] - Quote
Marech Bhayanaka wrote:I've been reading recruitment threads recently, and of course many of them mention security checks, which makes sense in a game full of spies and betrayals. But today I thought about it a bit and realized I have no idea what the checkers are looking before, beyond the obvious "Did he work for the enemy."
Are there things I (and others) should avoid doing because they would make it harder to find a corp in the future?
Marech.
I have recruited a couple of people in to the game, and one thing I have told them to absolutely not do is mail me via the in-game system, add me as a positive contact, or send me anything (a couple of times I have lent them money, but done it strictly through a neutral alt) as all things will show up in an API check, and anyone recruiting them will probably **** a brick if they saw a Goon as a positive contact. Its something that can be easily explained away with a good corp, but a lot would immediately reject without the chance to explain.
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Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation
Mercenary Coalition
298
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Posted - 2015.04.07 09:23:11 -
[27] - Quote
Hengle Teron wrote:The first thing to check is probably if and who's alt are you.
You can see it by the source of the income of the applicant.
how can that prove anything?
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Eve Solecist
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
594
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Posted - 2015.04.07 09:26:16 -
[28] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Hengle Teron wrote:The first thing to check is probably if and who's alt are you.
You can see it by the source of the income of the applicant. how can that prove anything?
Assume you made a new char and stupidly send money to it.
This one is one of my better posts. You should see the others ....
"I've tried to give up making sexual innuendos. But it's hard, so hard." -RoAnnon
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Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
985
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Posted - 2015.04.07 09:29:41 -
[29] - Quote
Marech Bhayanaka wrote:Lots of interesting responses above. Thank you all!
One more question ... I came across one otherwise attractive looking corp that specifies they want a non-expiring API key. I believe this would give them ongoing access to my email. I don't plan any shenanigans, but this seemed a bit creepy.
Is this a commonly accepted practice?
Marech.
There can be valid reasons for this - with larger organisations, rather than manually removing members from services once they leave, there might be automated systems in place to periodically check that every registered forum/comms account is linked to a valid API showing a character as an alliance/corp member (and if one isn't found, immediately auto-banning the account). If in doubt, ask, most wont mind you querying the purpose of the API. |
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
Somethin Awfull Forums
567
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Posted - 2015.04.07 19:32:15 -
[30] - Quote
Don Purple wrote:Just always be honest :D
If you get rejected because you are telling the truth then you probably don't want to fly with them anyways.
Been in a few corps now even when they know I am a spy/awoxer/corp thief.
Had a blast with a lot of good people even met some of them IRL.
This in a round about way.
There is no limit on the amount of accounts someone can have. API checks are useless and they always have been. The closest thing to true security checks are in requirements to have you register with something like Team Speak, It's much more difficult to BS people for long periods of time when they become actual people in a teamspeak environment.
My name is Edwin, I live in Toronto, Canada.
R.I.P. Vile Rat
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