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Tank CEO
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Posted - 2003.11.05 05:56:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Tank CEO on 05/11/2003 05:57:16
We understand that progression is way too fast. Players skid past areas in the game. We attribute this to 2 main things, the first being that skill learning is too fast. That will be fixed, in part, with Tech level 2, as it includes a lot of new skills that have the Tech level one skills as requirements.
CCP beleives that skill training is too fast? I think its perfect in my opinion. If they really had to nerf training time, i think that they should make more skill training requirements for certian modules/ships. Don't you agree?
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Molly
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Posted - 2003.11.05 06:00:00 -
[2]
 Quote:
Edited by: Tank CEO on 05/11/2003 05:57:16
We understand that progression is way too fast. Players skid past areas in the game. We attribute this to 2 main things, the first being that skill learning is too fast. That will be fixed, in part, with Tech level 2, as it includes a lot of new skills that have the Tech level one skills as requirements.
CCP beleives that skill training is too fast? I think its perfect in my opinion. If they really had to nerf training time, i think that they should make more skill training requirements for certian modules/ships. Don't you agree?
They are going to nerf everything. Making everything harder.
They want to stop the power gamers, but the only winners will be power gamers again.
I'd rather like to see a large scale conflict in EVE finally (like an empire war or something) than disussions foccused on technical / game mechanics aspects.
Player controlled stations in TL3? This is a show stopper.
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Kasha > Mastema, face the reality: All the juicy dots are gone.
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Molly
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Posted - 2003.11.05 06:03:00 -
[3]
I don't agree on that progression thingy, but I agree on other parts of the interview, which sound promising :-).
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Kasha > Mastema, face the reality: All the juicy dots are gone.
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Sinsemillia
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Posted - 2003.11.05 06:07:00 -
[4]
Sounds like bull**** to me. Progression too fast my ass, the real problem is development/bug fixing is too dam slow.
Same old story, instead of fixing the problem they just nerf something else.
Instead of nerfing high sec mining, how about fixing the roid growth bug so its actually worth your while taking the risk and moving out of empire space.
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Van Cleef
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Posted - 2003.11.05 06:08:00 -
[5]
more detailed skills to use some of the modules would be very much prefered to just lengthing the time to learn skills.
It would add more detail and allow for more specialization in characters besides the cookie cutter ones we have now.
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Serve the State
Join Channel CAINCOM |
Myrmex
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Posted - 2003.11.05 06:09:00 -
[6]
i think that what they meant by saying that is the higher level skill will require much more pre-requisite and also have higher rank thus making them hard to specialize in more than 1 or 2 branch per player.fighter , trader , producer , refiner etc...
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Archemedes
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Posted - 2003.11.05 07:30:00 -
[7]
The reason they say skill training is too fast is there's no real reason to take most skills to level 5. I started the game almost 3 months after release and I can already fly one race's battleships, 2 races' cruisers, all non-Caldari frigates, and Amarr industrials. I also have lots of gunnery skills, good mining skills, good science skills, and a ton of engineering, electronics, and navigation. That means I can already fight well, mine well, research well, and haul freight... and a lot of you have 10-12 weeks more training time than I do. So I assume quite a few people have almost every skill in the game at at least level 1.
I really don't think the devs had that in mind. They (hopefully) aren't nerfing the rate you gain skill points, but it sounds like the new skills will be much harder to learn, so not everyone will be ABLE to do everything. If tech 2 skills need things like Engineering 5 and Science 5 to learn, people will specialize. If there are several difficult to learn building skils, every builder won't build every item.
I think the whole idea is that the devs want people to need each other. If the deep core miner is ALSO a master builder AND an expert researcher, they could acquire a tech 2 blueprint, mine the ore, refine it, build the item, and sell it. That's not nearly as good for the economy as having builders buy BPs from researchers and ore from miners is...
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.11.05 08:59:00 -
[8]
Edited by: j0sephine on 05/11/2003 09:02:28
"CCP beleives that skill training is too fast? I think its perfect in my opinion. If they really had to nerf training time, i think that they should make more skill training requirements for certian modules/ships. Don't you agree?"
... They are not nerfing the training time, but doing pretty much what you suggest -- new technology requires the primary skills at high levels, meaning people will have to pick their specialization areas more carefully.
E.g. in order to research new laser turret modules one needs Adv.Laser Technology -- rank 8 skill with requirements of Science lvl.5 and Adv.Turret Technology skill at lvl.3... Adv.Turret Tech in turn (also a rank 8 skill) requires Science 5 and Gunnery 5. And this is for the reasearcher. The manufacturer of these advanced lasers will also need the Adv.Laser Tech skill, but together with Industry 5. Other module classes have similar requirements, but in their related fields i.e. advanced Propulsion technology requires Navigation lvl.5 etc.
edit: it's all obviously just guesswork based on the info available at eve-db.com... actual process in game can be completely different ;s
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2003.11.05 09:09:00 -
[9]
j0sephine hit it spot on.
Face it, there is no real reason to train anyhthing beyond lvl 4, as the time outweighs the actual bonus.
(Now if only I could get Adv Signature Analysis =\)
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Beringe
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Posted - 2003.11.05 10:31:00 -
[10]
Specialization = good.
They didn't say they would touch the current training times.
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"My main griveance with the Caldari state was that once I had finished my work for them, they wanted me dead."
"No, it's none of your business." |
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Merjan
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Posted - 2003.11.05 10:32:00 -
[11]
Skills that were in game at day 1 would take close to 3 years to max.
If Devs think they need to slow down learning skills they are very wrong.
And i don't like idea of too many new advanced skills that are rank 8 or something with 3 or 4 level 5 skills as requirements either.
Problem is that some of the professions or careers in EVE are non-existant (reverse engineering, black market trading, any trade or social careers) so people are not wasting their time there but train what is there (try gunnery skill with 17 skills already there plus 8 in missiles category).
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2003.11.05 10:37:00 -
[12]
This contradicts :
Quote:
Skills that were in game at day 1 would take close to 3 years to max.
If Devs think they need to slow down learning skills they are very wrong.
And i don't like idea of too many new advanced skills that are rank 8 or something with 3 or 4 level 5 skills as requirements either.
this:
Quote:
Problem is that some of the professions or careers in EVE are non-existant (reverse engineering, black market trading, any trade or social careers) so people are not wasting their time there but train what is there (try gunnery skill with 17 skills already there plus 8 in missiles category).
Career paths are at the moment indeed non-existant. By creating skillsets that force you to have several lvl 5 skills to train the Advanced skill in the first place, you make people specialise in a certain skill-tree
:)
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Merjan
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Posted - 2003.11.05 10:43:00 -
[13]
No it doesn't if the first thing they do is advanced gunnery and advanced large hybrid, laser or projectiel turrets.
Followed by advanced electronics and engineering.
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Merjan
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Posted - 2003.11.05 10:45:00 -
[14]
What i am trying to tell is that they should introducedd rest of the skills in the trade, social and leadership, and reverse engineering first and then look for advanced skills.
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Shaelin Corpius
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Posted - 2003.11.05 10:51:00 -
[15]
I have been waiting for them to do this for a long time. Kinda tired of being a Miner/trader/builder/researcher/killer and whatever esle you can do in the game, I can do them all quite well with almost 6mil in skill points.
Specialization is going to be the most important thing to happen to this game whether you think so or not.
Corps will actually have to recuit "certain ppl" to do "specific jobs" and depend on that person on a constant basis. Instead of "well Johns not here today to make these ships, how bout one of you other 100 ppl in my corp do it.
 Wrong, it shouldn't be like this. The basic skills in this game so far are just a taste of what a character can do and what you might picture yourself doing better. If they don't do skill specialization, we will have a game of ppl who can do everything on their, like they can now.
As far as time requirements go, I don't think they will "nerf" that as much as we are expecting. Even though they have done a number on a lot of things.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2003.11.05 10:52:00 -
[16]
Ah, i see your point!
Yes, you're right. I'd appreciate them putting in those skills at the same time, though.
(And gimme Advanced Learning, damnit..)
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Shaelin Corpius
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Posted - 2003.11.05 12:05:00 -
[17]
Ya that would have been more ideal to gameplay.
I agree I would have liked to had my skilltree set before I trained every skill in the game.
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Carp Riddell
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Posted - 2003.11.05 12:10:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Carp Riddell on 05/11/2003 12:11:14
All I ask is that CCP make clear what the implications of going down a given training path are at the point when the skills are released. If certain skills are required for certain manufacturing \ research \ whatever actions, then it needs to be made clear from the start as it sounds like training these skill sets will take us a long time.
In short, please CCP can you post a mini-manual for the Tech II patch on the Eve site with a link from the in-game CONCORDE news when the patch is released.
- Carp Riddell
- CEO, Innsmouth Shipping
- Proud Member of Curse Alliance
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.11.05 12:26:00 -
[19]
They meant the training dependencies afaict.
i.e. to get to flying a battleship only requires going frigate-cruiser-battleship...
whereas they think now that maybe it should also have been dependent on getting gunnery 5, Navigaiton 5, Shield Ops 4 (etc etc).
I do tend to agree and you can see their attitude to this in their ranting over battleship miners... with more interdependencies they suppose fewer would reach the point of being able to battleship-mine as quickly.
THus its not training time per se that will change, but an increase in skill dependencies requiring more sifferent skills to be researched to level X before you can train skill Y.
(At least imo)
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patch
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Posted - 2003.11.05 12:44:00 -
[20]
Quote:
And i don't like idea of too many new advanced skills that are rank 8 or something with 3 or 4 level 5 skills as requirements either
Remember there will be advanced implants and boosters, so training time wont be ludicrously stupid 
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Vel Kyri
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Posted - 2003.11.05 12:50:00 -
[21]
For what its worts, i agree with Morkt/josephine/ etc..
they will be increasing dependancies.
also making lots of new "upper level" skills that need the current ones at lvl5..
skilla(lvl5) -> skillb(lvl5) ->skillc
etc etc.
that way the people who want to get skillc in certain areas will have to devote time to ONLY those arease - so we'll start to see some division between the people good at turrets, vs good at ecm, vs good at scien/manufacturing etc.
all good things in my eyes.
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Spider Jerusalem
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Posted - 2003.11.05 12:51:00 -
[22]
You are on my S**T list and soon you will be a ghost.
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Quantum Gopher
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Posted - 2003.11.05 12:57:00 -
[23]
Let us hope that with all of these new skill point requirements for Tech II that we will be getting Tech II clones as well to protect our investment in training time if we should we meet with fatal adversity. 
Q. Gopher
__________
I know...it's only ROCK and roll, but I like it!! |
Zarquon Beeblebrox
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Posted - 2003.11.05 12:58:00 -
[24]
Agreed with josephine, if they make this the game would be much more RP, and non fighting PVP. (not that we dont need fighting PVP ofcource.)
--
Lady Beeblebrox
Teddybears movies
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