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Murkelost
FinFleet
Northern Coalition.
1
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Posted - 2015.04.11 08:24:48 -
[1] - Quote
Rumour has it that the Svipul is getting power grid nerfed in regard of some people using a 10mn afterburner on it.
I can agree that using a 10mn afterburner on a "small" vessel is silly. But it does not come without having to offline other modules or skip a gun or shield extender, or spend alot of ISK for a good implant to be able to have a complete fit which meet up with the demand of the capsuleer pilot.
Anyhow, with my current setup I have 6.5 powergrid left, and I think that it would be a bad thing to reduce the powergrid at all or to much because then you would not be able to have a decent fit anymore.
Linking my svipul setup for reference: HIGHSLOT: 6x 280mm Howitzer artillery II. MEDSLOT: Limited 1mn MWD, 2x Tracking Computer II, Medium azeotropic ward salubrity I. LOWSLOT: 2x gyrostabilizer II, micro auxilliary power core II, nanofiber interal structure II. RIGS: 3x small core defence field extenter I.
Also pay notice to the fact that I am using a +5 powergrid implant and a micro auxilliary power core II (which is not apart of the ships powergrid from the start). I also have the skill powergrid management at lvl 5 (25% bonus to powergrid).
Powergrid implant: Inherent Implants 'Squire' Power Grid Management EG-605
As much as I can agree on its wrong to be able to fit a 10mn afterburner to this ship, I find as wrong to render the ship into something useless and not so "tactical" as the ship is supposed to be.
So my proposition is as follows:
Make the differently sized afterburner and microwarpdrives locked for specific ship classes/sizes.
1mn ab/mwd for frigates, destroyers and other smaller vessels I haven't mentioned.
10mn ab/mwd for cruisers, battlecruisers, haulers and other medium sized vessels I haven't mentioned.
100mn AB/MWD for battleships and bigger.
This would really make the game more balanced without gimping ships in themselves, and least it would resolve this issue with small ships fitting oversized modules on them which means there will be no need to tweak ships in regards of this dilemma/problem and thereby riscing to render them into something really bad.
On the contrary to this proposal, the fitting concept of Eve Online would be quite boring if you would not be able to experiment with different sized modules (shield extenders, armor plates and so on) on various ships and sizes. So my proposal for this module size restriction is only in relation to "active speed modules". This is only because a 10MN AB Svipul does about the same speed as a 1MN MWD Svipul, but the difference there will be no signature increase due to AB used instead of MWD, good luck with tracking that   
On the other hand you could always adapt your fleet composition to counter this issue with specific ships that has long range webifying, target painting and energy neutralizing. Which in my opinion is what is so awesome about Eve online, you can do anything if you just put some effort into it.
The big question is, do we want to have a open universe where more is possible, or where most things are strictly controlled and less innovative to play around with...
None the less if changes has to be made I find it better to limit the different sized active speed modules to specific ship sizes than gimping each ship in themselves in a general notice (the Svipul was only used as example) with the risc of rendering into something less able to reach a decent fit 
Best Regards // Murkelost |
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
878
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 09:35:29 -
[2] - Quote
Murkelost wrote:I think that it would be a bad thing to reduce the powergrid at all or to much because then you would not be able to have a decent fit anymore.
^^That's why they call it a nerf!
Targeting, Sensors and ECM Overhaul
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Murkelost
FinFleet
Northern Coalition.
1
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Posted - 2015.04.11 09:37:34 -
[3] - Quote
Swiftstrike1 wrote:Murkelost wrote:I think that it would be a bad thing to reduce the powergrid at all or to much because then you would not be able to have a decent fit anymore. ^^That's why they call it a nerf!
Oh really? |
Leto Aramaus
Spiritus Draconis
Spaceship Bebop
96
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Posted - 2015.04.11 13:25:55 -
[4] - Quote
Currently,
I do NOT have to sacrifice a gun, or a shield extender.
My 10mn AB Svipul has either 2x Medium ASB, or 2x Medium Shield Extenders, 7x 150mm guns, and the ASB version can even fit a neut in the utility high.
No you can't fit 10mn, 2x medium shield mods, and ***280mm** guns, of course not. With how T3s are balanced, I'm honestly surprised you can't. But either way, Svipul needs a PG nerf.
The UI update we deserve
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Murkelost
FinFleet
Northern Coalition.
1
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Posted - 2015.04.11 13:31:01 -
[5] - Quote
Leto Aramaus wrote:Currently,
I do NOT have to sacrifice a gun, or a shield extender.
My 10mn AB Svipul has either 2x Medium ASB, or 2x Medium Shield Extenders, 7x 150mm guns, and the ASB version can even fit a neut in the utility high.
No you can't fit 10mn, 2x medium shield mods, and ***280mm** guns, of course not. With how T3s are balanced, I'm honestly surprised you can't. But either way, Svipul needs a PG nerf.
You have all the info you need from the setup I use, which is not a 10MN fit, go try it out and let us know if you were successful. |
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
224
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 13:31:13 -
[6] - Quote
Well, Murkelost, how shall I put it: don't buy Sviipul for arties anymore - it will become just an expensive Thrasher, and I mean *just* a Thrasher. 
ACs however... 10MN, 2x MASB, minimum fitting mods Supreme. ßòª( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦)ßòñ
TL;DR Broken ship.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Murkelost
FinFleet
Northern Coalition.
1
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 13:34:36 -
[7] - Quote
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:Well, Murkelost, how shall I put it: don't buy Sviipul for arties anymore - it will become just an expensive Thrasher, and I mean *just* a Thrasher. ACs however... 10MN, 2x MASB, minimum fitting mods Supreme. ßòª( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦)ßòñ TL;DR Broken ship.
But I love my artys 
Are you suggesting I shouldnt be able to run a full rack of 280 artys with a decent fit (with that i mean a non 10MN AB fit)? |
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
224
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 13:36:03 -
[8] - Quote
Let me get a napkin... Brb with numbers.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Prometheus Exenthal
mnemonic.
786
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 13:44:54 -
[9] - Quote
I don't know what you're complaining about.
You can still fit both 1mn mwd & 10mn ab 280 setups.
Run some ACRs and dont cry about the pathetic hp loss on your already paper Svipul.
https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage
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Tusker Crazinski
Delta vane Corp.
Mordus Angels
62
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Posted - 2015.04.11 13:44:56 -
[10] - Quote
reducing the grid would be fine if the fitting requirements for artillery weren't so absurd.
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
224
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Posted - 2015.04.11 13:49:29 -
[11] - Quote
Tusker Crazinski wrote:reducing the grid would be fine if the fitting requirements for artillery weren't so absurd.
280mms + MWD fit with no PG left.
Anything else extra, fit MACPs - the Minmatar way.
This spaceship desperately needs more CPU for arty fits.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Murkelost
FinFleet
Northern Coalition.
1
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Posted - 2015.04.11 14:14:18 -
[12] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:I don't know what you're complaining about.
You can still fit both 1mn mwd & 10mn ab 280 setups.
Run some ACRs and dont cry about the pathetic hp loss on your already paper Svipul.
I don't know what your problem is with other people posting in this forum, yeah that's how constructive I found your input to be. No offence Stay on topic and don't go all crybaby on the thread please. |
Murkelost
FinFleet
Northern Coalition.
1
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 14:15:33 -
[13] - Quote
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:Tusker Crazinski wrote:reducing the grid would be fine if the fitting requirements for artillery weren't so absurd.
280mms + MWD fit with no PG left. Anything else extra, fit MACPs - the Minmatar way. This spaceship desperately needs more CPU for arty fits. Quote:[Svipul, New Setup 1 copy 1]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Internal Force Field Array I
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Scan Resolution Script
Warp Disruptor II
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot S
[empty high slot]
Small Ancillary Current Router II
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing II
Small Auxiliary Thrusters I 267/268.75 CPU. Nothing else fits due to CPU shortage in the remaining mid but a sebo. vOv Rigs to taste. The following is... Quote:[Svipul, New Setup 1 copy 1]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Internal Force Field Array I
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 50
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
Warp Disruptor II
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot S
[empty high slot]
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Fact: You can't fit a DC CPU-wise with a MASB with the coming changes without using the above rigs.
I presume with Heatsinks you mean Gyrostabilizers right? |
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
224
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 14:16:36 -
[14] - Quote
Yes.
You will now quickly edit that.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Murkelost
FinFleet
Northern Coalition.
1
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 14:17:20 -
[15] - Quote
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:Yes. You will now quickly edit that.
Good lad |
Mario Putzo
1171
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 14:26:22 -
[16] - Quote
There is a sticky for this exact topic, why make a new thread for it.
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
224
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 14:34:03 -
[17] - Quote
As mentioned by Prometheus, your setup works with the new PG by dropping an extender rig for an ACR,
Quote:[Svipul, New Setup 1 copy 1]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot S
[empty high slot]
Small Core Defense Field Extender II
Small Core Defense Field Extender II
Small Ancillary Current Router II
Even downgraded the MACP to t1.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
|
Prometheus Exenthal
mnemonic.
786
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 15:16:49 -
[18] - Quote
Murkelost wrote:Prometheus Exenthal wrote:I don't know what you're complaining about.
You can still fit both 1mn mwd & 10mn ab 280 setups.
Run some ACRs and dont cry about the pathetic hp loss on your already paper Svipul. I don't know what your problem is with other people posting in this forum, yeah that's how constructive I found your input to be. No offence Stay on topic and don't go all crybaby on the thread please.
There really isnt anything to discuss. CCP has flipped their standings on oversized prop mods years ago, and now they have their new ships designed around them.
The problems with the Svipul start and end with the speed that 10mn setups provide.
If that speed were provided by a 1mn AB, it'd be insanely broken unless the ship got a gigantic agility nerf.
Any dev who says they didn't design T3 ships with them in mind is lying through their teeth.
And if they truly didn't, then they shouldn't be designing anything to miss something so glaring.
With any luck the proposed *afterburner* rebalance we've been promised will result in higher fitting requirements.
https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage
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Murkelost
FinFleet
Northern Coalition.
1
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 15:45:13 -
[19] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:Murkelost wrote:Prometheus Exenthal wrote:I don't know what you're complaining about.
You can still fit both 1mn mwd & 10mn ab 280 setups.
Run some ACRs and dont cry about the pathetic hp loss on your already paper Svipul. I don't know what your problem is with other people posting in this forum, yeah that's how constructive I found your input to be. No offence Stay on topic and don't go all crybaby on the thread please. There really isnt anything to discuss. CCP has flipped their standings on oversized prop mods years ago, and now they have their new ships designed around them.
This is why I made my proposal of locking 1, 10 and 100MN propulsion modules to specific ship sizes. It would eliminate the issue as well as spare ships from getting gimped. A win win situation in my opinion :) |
Murkelost
FinFleet
Northern Coalition.
1
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 16:26:32 -
[20] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:There is a sticky for this exact topic, why make a new thread for it.
Read the OP again and perhaps you will come to enlightenment |
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