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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
36149
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Posted - 2015.04.21 05:13:47 -
[1] - Quote
Mr Deleted wrote:highsec is overrated, lowsec is where its at, and it solves the war deccing problems, all the war deccers cant go to lowsec, thats where real fights are Like taking a Stratios, Broadsword, Proteus and Gnosis to kill an Interon Mk V, Sigil or Badger? Or even more ships to kill a Mackinaw? Those sorts of fights?
Seems plausible. They look so much more real than what the highsec pvpers do.
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
36154
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Posted - 2015.04.21 05:58:18 -
[2] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:There's a fellow by the name of LieK Darz who operates around towards the Korsiki direction of The Forge region and he's negative ten along with an alt he uses and I have not seen it stop them. (Very by the book and respectable too ) Surely, not being stopped by being -10 is not the same as travelling in the same safety as the mission runner or incursioner (or really, anyone that isn't outlaw)?
This is totally off topic to the OPs point (since being a wardeccer doesn't go well as a -10), so not worth spending much time on, but surely you can't say they are the same.
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
36154
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Posted - 2015.04.21 06:04:30 -
[3] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:You just described 99% of highsec pvp. I've never seen a mackinaw in lowsec.
Go and look at that guys killboard.
He is ridiculing highsec pvpers on the basis that 'real fights' happen in lowsec. But he is doing just the same.
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
36158
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Posted - 2015.04.21 06:12:11 -
[4] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Even the "deny the playing of the game" mechanics are being reviewed and/or changed. In just about every thread when this comes up, most people on both sides of the argument express the view that the wardec system needs to be changed. Not everyone, but many have the view that the mechanic could be improved.
The -10 argument doesn't really have any place in this thread, since that is a separate thing. This one's about highsec wardec mechanics being broken, not gankers.
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
36158
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Posted - 2015.04.21 06:19:37 -
[5] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:...Everybody wants an easy gank...
Absolutely.
Which makes the argument that 'lowsec pvp is real pvp' or that' nullsec pvp is real pvp' or that 'highsec pvp is not real pvp' kind of all pointless.
They are just different to each other. Not greater or lesser than one another.
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
36161
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Posted - 2015.04.21 08:13:16 -
[6] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:You are the one who does that, then uses the reporting tool when you get back what you dished out. That, IMO, makes you the lowest form of life and no lionger worth debating with knowing you are going to go running to the report button. I must have used the report button at best 5 or 6 times since 2006.
I'm done with you. This is like arguing with a died-hair social justice warrior on Twitter.
Go and report that too. He doesn't need to. I did already.
Irrespective of who it's from or who it's directed that, those types of posts don't belong here.
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
36163
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Posted - 2015.04.21 08:30:29 -
[7] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:diddums... It's also just total disrespect to the OP, who bought a well thought out and expressed post (irrespective of our individual opinions on the topic), which was totally derailed almost from the start.
Why even carry on with this sort of stuff when the actual topic of the thread could be discussed instead? I'm not claiming to be better than anyone in this. Just lamenting the situation that we can't be civil to each other, especially when unprovoked to begin with. Someone always has to claim a higher moral ground and in doing so, attacks someone else. It's just hypocritical.
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
36165
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Posted - 2015.04.21 08:37:08 -
[8] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:The slime dripping from that post was awesome to behold... Why's that?
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
36167
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Posted - 2015.04.21 09:17:37 -
[9] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Personally I think a wardec should be as trivial to exit as it is to enter. If 50mill (+ costs for members) to concord starts one it should end one just as easily. Since we don't have that the next best thing is dec dodging, which is better since it lacks the harassment potential for dec'ing repeatedly for isk attrition. There are ways out of wardecs that don't involve dec dodging. Whether that is to surrender, fight or hire someone to fight for you Corps do have options. Adding more options to the mechanic that doesn't just provide a near free way to avoid conflict is also something I hope CCP eventually add.
On the other hand, not every wardec fits into the 'frivilous' category that is often complained about and we have no figures to know what percentage of wars are for a genuine greivance, to gain a competitive advantage, etc. v declaring because the mechanic exists.
In situations where someone is genuinely trying to 'avenge' a greivance, or if they are trying to get rid of the competition, gain some market advantage, etc.; the dec dodging mechanism robs them of that opportunity to genuinely bring conflict against someone they have a reason to.
In that respect, the mechanic is totally to the advantage of the dec dodger and to the disadvantage of the other person/Corp. Mercs make a living off settling someone's greivance for them and the dec dodging mechanism also affects them.
So looking at it from the perspective that the war has a genuine reason to exist, the dec dodging approach is a bit too easy.
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
36168
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Posted - 2015.04.21 10:00:21 -
[10] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Fighting and ransom payment both have the singular effect of marking you as a target for future exploitation, exception being that you are better than your aggressors at the latter. Everything I've ever read from wardeccers on the forum suggests the opposite.
In relation to fighting, if they are looking for easy targets and you present a significant threat, that seems like a good reason to avoid you in future. That takes a bit of research once a war is declared so you can check their history and try to determine their objectives.
If they have a specific reason to declare war, then avoiding them is only satisfying their objectives anyway.
So it seems, the fight option is potentially a win-win for both (for genuine wars) and at best could be a win for you if they are just looking for easy targets.
As for surrender terms, every comment I've seen from wardeccers on the forum suggests that if you surrender, you won't be wardecced again. I have no experience in that personally, but have no reason not to believe that.
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
36175
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Posted - 2015.04.21 10:54:52 -
[11] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:The problem with this attitude is that it's simply saying "if your corp wants to do anything other than PvP, it can't". No amount of defense in the world allows you to run non-PvP operations while being wardecced by groups who focus purely on PvP who are multiple times your size. You have no problems because all you want is PvP. That doesn't work for corps who want things outside of that. There's a reason there are no large scale highsec corporations with a non-PvP focus that don't operate almost entirely through NPC alts. Like every Corp and Alliance, we receive wardecs at different times.
In our experience, the large wardec groups aren't a threat at all. They are running up to a hundred wars at a time. They aren't out looking to specifically target anyone, just catching the wartargets that present themselves as a target, usually through carelessness.
It's the small ones that are more likely to be a risk because they are running fewer wars and have more time to devote to dealing with each one, especially so for small merc groups. Even then they are often running a dozen or so wars, so won't target you all the time, just occasionally each week. Good scouts make it much easier for anyone trying to avoid them and it is definitely possible to keep active, almost with no impact, if you are careful.
That's just our experience and I don't know how representative it is of others.
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