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Pod Panik
United Allegiance of Undesirables
35
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Posted - 2015.04.23 19:45:55 -
[1] - Quote
Hello All!
I need some clarification...I need to understand why people use Lasers vs the other weapons system. Through my inexperienced eyes, they seem to be very lacking compared to the other option as they have low versatility and have a significant Cap cost to use.
On the other hand, lot of people use lasers. Why...other then the fact that they have infinite ammo?
Thanks for sharing the wisdom?
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Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
586
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Posted - 2015.04.23 19:54:19 -
[2] - Quote
Pod Panik wrote:Hello All!
I need some clarification...I need to understand why people use Lasers vs the other weapons system. Through my inexperienced eyes, they seem to be very lacking compared to the other option as they have low versatility and have a significant Cap cost to use.
On the other hand, lot of people use lasers. Why...other then the fact that they have infinite ammo?
Thanks for sharing the wisdom?
High base damage, no reloads, broad damage application arc on most crystal / gun combinations, and Scorch is often considered the best T2 ammo type hands-down, though that varies with who you're asking.
Additionally, if you want to fly the Amarr boats for other reasons (insane armor buffer, shiny golden doom-graphics, etc) they often have bonuses to lasers but not other weapon types, so not a whole lot of choice there. If you're flying a fleet with an armor-based doctrine it's really Lasers or Hybrids in broad-strokes terms, though some Amarr boats can run missiles too.
Overall they're one of the best weapon types for wanting to put sort of minimal effort into positioning if you want instant-hit weapons. When you're skilled up and fitted properly they won't run you out of capacitor before either you blow up or the other guy does. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9427
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Posted - 2015.04.23 20:00:26 -
[3] - Quote
they're one of the best at projecting their dps to medium range (with t2 crystals, scorch in particular is stupidly good at this)
pulse lasers fit with scorch enables you to kite with short range turrets and you still have the option to switch down to close range ammo if you need.
beam lasers have excellent optimal ranges and tracking (for big guns) which means they apply their damage quite well.
Also cristals tale up shag all space and can be swapped out in a couple of seconds so no downtime for reloading.
Now its worth looking at amarr boats stats as they're designed specifically to use them and have hudge cap pools and often bonuses to keep the guns from capping you out.
And they look glorious.
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Pod Panik
United Allegiance of Undesirables
35
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Posted - 2015.04.23 20:03:03 -
[4] - Quote
So the base damage and tracking of lasers is such that it mitigates the fact that there is no versatility? |
Solomar Espersei
Quality Assurance
568
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Posted - 2015.04.23 20:03:18 -
[5] - Quote
- Well, for bashing down POS and other structures, it's nice to have a weapon that never runs out of ammo.
- There's not much better to be using when you're opponent is armor-tanked. EM simply shreds them.
- Scorch, the T2 ammo, is still very, very good and allows you to apply DPS at extended range.
- Insta-swapping of crystals to improve damage or optimal.
- Their versatility lies in the ability to apply effective damage across the spectrum of the fight. Where blasters deal incredible DPS, you're forced to brawl with them all while being tied to fixed damage type. Lasers, while also suffering from fixed damage type, can apply DPS quite broadly across the distances that are most common in fights (inside scram/web, just outside, just under T2 point, etc.).
- Though a fixed damage type of EM/Therm, this isn't as bad as it looks as it's really only terrible against T2 Minmatar.
- As opposed to missiles, and this is a trait that lasers share with projectiles and hybrids, lasers apply damage immediately.
- Due to their excellent damage projection across critical ranges, they make it very hard for enemy pilots to minimize the damage of your guns.
- As an excellent mid-range gun, you'll often get easy kills where opponents hit approach and fail to spiral in against you. Missiles can't really do this.
Quality Assurance
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9428
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Posted - 2015.04.23 20:08:59 -
[6] - Quote
Pod Panik wrote:So the base damage and tracking of lasers is such that it mitigates the fact that there is no versatility?
Their quite versatile, just not for damage type.
You can be versatile in your engagement ranges, you can swap ammo in a heartbeat to adjust to the circumstances, you can go from kiting to brawling in a moment's notice.
And it's beams that have good tracking, not pulses, and only comparatively.
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
424
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Posted - 2015.04.23 21:01:29 -
[7] - Quote
As has been said, on balance they're a very efficient & competitive weapons system.
Used to be a time when all ships had 60% base EM resists. Horrible times. 
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Ovv Topik
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
706
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Posted - 2015.04.23 22:00:02 -
[8] - Quote
CCP has done a great job in tweaking and balancing the 5 weapon systems to give them all clear pro's and cons, and evenly sit each of them in the 'rock, paper, scissors' game that is EvE pvp.
The trick is to learn each systems strength, and where it wins/loses you fights.
Lasers are no better worse than any other system.
"Nicknack, I'm in a shoe in space, on my computer, in my house, with a cup of coffee, in't that something." - Fly Safe PopPaddi. o7
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Woeful Animation
Ascendent.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
55
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Posted - 2015.04.23 22:17:21 -
[9] - Quote
As has been pointed out, their is no clearly superior weapon system. If you want to hit every time missiles are your weapon, but understand they have a low base damage point. You want to hit very hard, then tracking will be an issue. Lasers have nice base damage, are versatile across the damage types but can suffer from being to hit the bullseye for max damage.
Stated differently. A pilot who likes to get in range and orbits his target with afterburners on, is going to find that lasers perform poorly, even inside of optimal ranges. A highly skilled pilot who is adept at creating situations which have low transferals and can get into optimal ranges will excel with lasers.
The other point mentioned is the ability to change ammo types almost instantly. Missiles typically have a 10 second reload time, (35 seconds for Rapid Lights). Hybrids have 5 seconds and Projectiles 5-10 seconds depending on the type. 5-10 seconds is an eternity. |
L'ouris
Have Naught Subsidiaries
277
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Posted - 2015.04.23 23:02:12 -
[10] - Quote
Most of the answers given so far don't worry about the fixed damage type:
In PVP it matters very little, as most opponents will be Omni tanked.
In PVE it can stink against the wrong rats, until your skills get trained up. With focus, lasers do more than enough to melt every rat, off damage or not so it matters little eventually in PVE too.
That said, without high skills, try not to chew on a shotgun by ratting guristas or angels with a laser boat. Stick to the blood and Sansha rats until you are insta popping the em weak ones :) |
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Memphis Baas
318
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Posted - 2015.04.23 23:17:49 -
[11] - Quote
Understanding Lasers.
Questions have been answered already. People like lasers because they like Amarr ships, and that's the weapon the ships use. Some fights DO take hours of shooting, and any ship would run out of ammo given that cargo space isn't that big on a lot of ships. Options are: bring along "logistics" industrials full of ammo for reloads, or only invite laser ships when you set up your fleet.
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13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
96
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Posted - 2015.04.24 05:52:11 -
[12] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:Understanding Lasers. Questions have been answered already. People like lasers because they like Amarr ships, and that's the weapon the ships use. Some fights DO take hours of shooting, and any ship would run out of ammo given that cargo space isn't that big on a lot of ships. Options are: bring along "logistics" industrials full of ammo for reloads, or only invite laser ships when you set up your fleet. Without prior knowledge about what the enemy will bring (intel), most people omni-tank their ship, bringing each resistance to 60+ and calling it done. After all, it's equally likely that you'll be attacked by lasers, some damn drone boat, blasters, missiles, or crazed Minmatar autocannon on full auto. Once you undock, you can't really change your defenses all that easily. So lasers or autocannons, they all hit equally hard, because you're omni-tanked. Having intel, however, that's how the smart people play. You find out who the enemy is, you look at their killboard to see what ships they've flown in the past, you figure out limits on skillpoints given their age etc., and then you fit EM and Thermal defenses because the guy always flies Amarr ships. Well, and then you hope he doesn't bring a missile Amarr ship. Or Minmatar slaves friends.
I don't see anything wrong with the concept of fitting specifically before a fight, and then avoiding a fight and swapping out if you determine they're using some other type of weapon.
At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
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Laken Starr
Mining and Munitions Ltd
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
77
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Posted - 2015.04.24 08:05:45 -
[13] - Quote
You're firing hot beams of fiery death at your enemies. Do you really need another reason beyond that?
I'm sure that the fact that so many of the Amarrian ships look like sharks is a complete coincidence. |
Azda Ja
Green Skull LLC
3596
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Posted - 2015.04.24 08:08:02 -
[14] - Quote
There is no other argument.
"I only lose ships when I fly with Azda." - Barry Cuttlefish
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9437
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Posted - 2015.04.24 08:31:52 -
[15] - Quote
I can think of one.
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Azda Ja
Green Skull LLC
3596
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Posted - 2015.04.24 08:38:09 -
[16] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Same argument, different formulation  .
"I only lose ships when I fly with Azda." - Barry Cuttlefish
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
507
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Posted - 2015.04.24 14:23:12 -
[17] - Quote
A lot of good info so far that I will try and avoid repeating.
While lazors do use cap because of that fact Amarr ships have the best capacitor stats so the whole using cap thing has a plus side. If you fly amarr ships you will see that you can fit a lot of cap consuming mods and still be good on cap. Just dont' obsess about being cap stable in EFT.
Also I don't think that most people understand how much Amarr being the "Pretty Race" figures into how much use Amarr ships see. That is one of the problems that I have with CCPs current doctrine of nerfing what gets flown the most. Eventually Amarr ship stats will get nerfed because the ships look pretty which to me seems silly but I play the game fully zoomed out.
Also I know that it has been said but I can not put enough emphasis on the no reload time and infinite versatility with regards to range. Projectiles and Hybrids both seem to have a huge hole between long guns and short guns that is just non-existent with lazors.
To me lazors seem to be to good as compared to the other two turret types. I even have them on my Domi FFS. But then again I shoot Sansha mostly so my opinion is probably colored by that. I'm sure if I was shooting at angels I'd have a different opinion. |
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