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ECCM and signal enhancers.

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Max Hardcase Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.02 18:22:00 - [1] Edited by: Max Hardcase on 02/11/2006 18:26:28 I listened to that podcast about ECM that was linked on the main page and it occured to me that the makers forgot one little thing when they discussed the benefits of ECCM. ECCM as it is only functions as a counter to a negative. It has no positive function when its not countering ECM. The counters to TD's and SD's provide ample benefits when fitted. The second drawback is that its pretty much useless on anything below battlecruisers for 2 reasons : - A general lack of midslots in small ships, and to a smaller degree low slots. - Low sensor strength of small ships to begin with. Proposed changes. ECCM ( midslot ) T1 ECCM array +50% sensor strength +25% scan resolution bonus +25% chance to keep locked targets if jammed (dice roll for each locked target) The last item is calculated as resistance is if you really want to fit multiple ECCM modules. ECCM low slot - change to active module with low power consumption. +25% sensor strength +12.5% scan resolution bonus +12.5% chance to keep locked targets if jammed The smaller scan strength bonus bonus is to compensate for the chance to keep locked targets if the ECCM is active. The bonus to scan resolution offsets the downtime after you've been jammed. It also provides a small positive bonus for when yer not being harrased by ECM The chance to keep targets that are already locked normalises the benefits of the module for smaller ships. Since ECCM now also provide a boost to scan resolution Signal Amplifiers will probably also have to be changed. Signal Amplifier T1 +15% targetting range ( same as current stats ) +25% scan resolution ( compared to 10% now ) I had a second, different idea about ECCM as well, but its very different than what you are used to. ECCM using this scheme would act as a second sensor that also would have to be jammed before the ship cant target anything at all. Drawbacks for this scheme would be a lower targetting range, lower max locked targets and nerfed scan res and sensor strength for the 2nd set of sensors. /edited for second ECCM scheme and to fix a few typos.
Darling Hassasin	Posted - 2006.11.02 19:32:00 - [2] Very solid proposals but a bit too complicated for our Devs tbh
Max Hardcase Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.02 22:52:00 - [3] 94 views but only 1 post ? Feedback is ok guys. You may try to flame but I've fitted 4 thermal hardeners and a thermal rig so
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2006.11.02 23:34:00 - [4] Edited by: madaluap on 02/11/2006 23:36:10 Good proposal, most people dont bother with ECCM because they feel like it doesnt work or its a useless module incase you dont get jammed (sacrificing a slot). This will make fitting ECCM allways be something that can benefit from. Only problem with your proposal is that you only get a 50% increase on medslot vs the current 98%. Allthough ECM got nerfed: using the proper ship (read ECM-ships) and using ECM strength increasing modules i dont know if it is enough. Especially when normal ships dont fit ECM anymore and specialised ECM-ships do, this means you will get jammed less or you can predict it. Its great being gallente , aint it? _________________________________________________
Pepperami Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.02 23:59:00 - [5] Max has good ideas. I like. [EVE TASK BAR?]
Max Hardcase Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.03 07:35:00 - [6] Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 02/11/2006 23:36:10 Good proposal, most people dont bother with ECCM because they feel like it doesnt work or its a useless module incase you dont get jammed (sacrificing a slot). This will make fitting ECCM allways be something that can benefit from. Only problem with your proposal is that you only get a 50% increase on medslot vs the current 98%. Allthough ECM got nerfed: using the proper ship (read ECM-ships) and using ECM strength increasing modules i dont know if it is enough. Especially when normal ships dont fit ECM anymore and specialised ECM-ships do, this means you will get jammed less or you can predict it. Keep in mind you could possibly still have active targets once you are jammed with my scheme. Thats nothing to sneeze at.
Lucian Corvinus Gallente Expert Systems	Posted - 2006.11.03 11:08:00 - [7] Edited by: Lucian Corvinus on 03/11/2006 11:08:35 Originally by: Max Hardcase Keep in mind you could possibly still have active targets once you are jammed with my scheme. Thats nothing to sneeze at. Which is the problems as I see it. Another bonus to the ECCM modules would be a good idea, but not to mess more with the jam probability. This would mean that if you had such a module fitted, and went 1 vs. 1 on a ecm ship you would have an additional 25% chance at not getting jammed. The bonus should be non related to the jam probability but something like 25% increased scan resolution after a succesful jam would be cool, or something similar.
Wintermoon Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.11.03 11:38:00 - [8] What about ECCM making jam cycles not last as long while the cycle time on the ECM module is unaffected? I.e. maybe 50% shorter jam cycle coupled with a mediocre scan resolution bonus could possibly allow you to relock and get off a volley before the next cycle of the ECM module.
Max Hardcase Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.03 11:39:00 - [9] Which is why I lowered the sensor strength bonus ECCM gives in the first place. The main point of this scheme is that it gives a fairer ECCM bonus to smaller ships.
Sandra Tseng THE MISPHIT'S	Posted - 2006.11.03 11:46:00 - [10] How about making the BACKUP ARRAY what it really sounds like? A Backup array. Meaning that once your primary sensors gets jammed you backup array kicks in. You would have to be jammed by TWO jammers (or more if you stick additonal backup arrays on) before you lose lock. _ Killed my sig AGAIN! :p http://www.ninc.org/krubarax/images/2d/verydisco.jpg
Max Hardcase Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.03 20:14:00 - [11] Originally by: Sandra Tseng How about making the BACKUP ARRAY what it really sounds like? A Backup array. Meaning that once your primary sensors gets jammed you backup array kicks in. You would have to be jammed by TWO jammers (or more if you stick additonal backup arrays on) before you lose lock. _ Way ahead of you there. read the OP ;)
Spacehulk Caldari Freedom-Technologies Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.11.05 04:33:00 - [12] Cool, you mean change the current mod so jammers can resist being jammed and get a scan bonus, woo hoo .. Additionaly, lets nerf the Sensor Booster and all those who build it .. You are looking at one side of the coin. I'd love fitting those uber mods if they get changed to this way. Freedom Technologies
Max Hardcase Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.05 10:06:00 - [13] You can say what you want but as it stands the counters to Sensordamps ( boosters ) and turret destabs ( tracking comps) provide pretty hefty benefits when fitted. ECCM does not. I don't see a major drawback to giving a bonus to scanner resolution, they're half of what sensor boosters provide and those also give a hefty bonus to targetting range.
Aslann Gallente Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.11.05 10:17:00 - [14] ECCM in its current form is a joke. If've been duelling in a myrmidon vs a hurrican allot using a 92% sensor backup thingie and I'm still jammed 50%+ of the time by a SINGLE Multi spec ECM II.
Wizard Without Reason	Posted - 2006.11.05 10:22:00 - [15] I fitted 4 midslot eccm named to my appoc for a test against a m8s scorp. I think from memory my radar strengh was like 98 or somthing, the scorp kept me jammed for about 400 secs of a 430 secs test. Without Reason corp website ^^looking for a PvP corp with little stress then
Imhotep Khem Total Mayhem.	Posted - 2006.11.05 12:59:00 - [16] scan resolution bonus is not related to ECM. Chance to keep lock target if jammed makes no sense. How is it different from just not being jammed? Turning 1 equation into 2? ____ "If your not dyin' your not tryin'." "Are you prepared to go all the way, Alexi?" DuGalle
Laboratus Gallente BGG Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.06 09:38:00 - [17] Originally by: Max Hardcase ECCM low slot - change to active module with low power consumption. +25% sensor strength +12.5% scan resolution bonus +12.5% chance to keep locked targets if jammed I resent the idea of adding more and more active modules to the game. Most fleet battles are already so lagged, I don't see any reason to increase CPU needs, lag and lag death by making everyone wait for modules to activate, and the increased bandwith needs of extra commands. So passive mods kthxbye. Otherwise good post. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats

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