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Hamfast Gallente Lightfoot Industries	Posted - 2006.11.03 16:55:00 - [1] First off, I am not talking about being at war... but just the drive-by podding thing... I can see a reason to blast someone elses ship, you get to loot their stuff... that makes sense to me... but why pod them? Is there anything to gain from it? (no, it did not happen to me... yet) Noob in training...
Lanfear's Bane Daughters of the Night	Posted - 2006.11.03 16:57:00 - [2] Edited by: Lanfear''s Bane on 03/11/2006 16:58:06 Kill their implants - financial loss, SP loss until they are replaced. Not in local - no smack. Killmail and frozen corpse as trophy. Lanfear's Bane. _ _ _
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.03 16:59:00 - [3] 1. Gets them out of local so they don't spend the next 30 minutes smacktalking you and alerting everyone else to your presence. 2. Corpse. 3. Nice squishy sound. 4. Keeps implant prices high. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Clone Delta	Posted - 2006.11.03 17:44:00 - [4] 1. because they have fun ruining yours 2. if they are guarding a gate to 0.0 you cannot go into the 0.0 space they are guarding
Easy Target Minmatar Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.03 18:19:00 - [5] 1. Cos it is fun 2. cos it costs them more, their rifter may be 300k.. chances are their clone is more 3. It removes their mouth from the system 4. destroys uninsurable implants... 1 and 3 is applied by pirates 2 is applied by war targets 4 is applied by everyone... Originally by: Dark Shikari 1. 3. Nice squishy sound. eve has sound?? :) ----------------------------------------------- No i'm not good... but i have never claimed to be --------------------
Abrivard	Posted - 2006.11.03 20:20:00 - [6] Because pods are ugly. Death to the pods.
Sakura Nihil Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.03 21:19:00 - [7] Because we can.
Billy Sastard Amarr Zephyr Enterprises Inc. Astral Wolves	Posted - 2006.11.03 21:53:00 - [8] Because 3 weeks ago that b4stard blew up my ship and I want REVENGE!!!!! -=^=- My Bookmarking Guide
Hamfast Gallente Lightfoot Industries	Posted - 2006.11.03 23:31:00 - [9] Ok, so pod killing stops smack talk... so if your ship is blasted you need to be podded or you will start smack talking... I promise I will not smack talk, so please don't pod me... It keeps the cost of implants high, I have yet to pay for an implant so no need to pod me for that... You get a frozen corpse... do Corpsicles taste good? Costing more... Agreed that in a war this matters... a little... but then I have had no real problems earning ISK, so the extra cost would just be an irratant... Because they are ugly... you beat eggs too, so I guess that almost makes sense... Because you can... only if you can catch me and I ain't gonna get that close if I have any say on the issue. As for Revenge... It was not me, I was never there... when I was there I did not shoot and when I shot I did not know what I was shooting at... Noob in training...
Caleb Paine ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.03 23:32:00 - [10] Podding is part of the killing. There's no reason at all to have any emotional bond with a pod. You destroy the ship and then you get the pod. It's the best way to serve someone a nice cup of STFU :) -------------------------------- ISS Navy Task Force; Protecting your interest.

Draconia Blackheart Disciples of the Underverse	Posted - 2006.11.04 00:54:00 - [11] Edited by: Draconia Blackheart on 04/11/2006 00:55:10 Why pod kill? (I don't) but pod-killing people here like to be a***holes... Nuff Said?
Gorek Loc Gallente Fine Art Manufactury	Posted - 2006.11.04 01:54:00 - [12] I have to admit, I would bow to anyone that did not pod-kill me, after a fight! I prolly wouldn't , depends on how the fight went! smack-talk = insta-podkill! As for reasons... I see that implants would play a major part of pod-killing as well as alliance-wars... other than that, plain evil Which is why (up until now) I have avoided low-sectors
Ras Blumin 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.11.04 01:59:00 - [13] Why not? It's only ammo.
Karasu Kaizoku	Posted - 2006.11.04 02:43:00 - [14] Podding is the cherry on top of another successful kill.*
Darksaber64x Ecchi co.	Posted - 2006.11.04 03:48:00 - [15] I personally don't think I'll ever pod... unless they reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaly deserve it :D
Hesod Adee	Posted - 2006.11.04 04:35:00 - [16] Another reason is because they refused to pay you the ransom. ----------------- My door is always open, just don't go in.
Miya Kurosawa Caldari White Wolves Defence league The OSS	Posted - 2006.11.04 05:03:00 - [17] When people want to just get some steam off, it's usually to kill someone. Eeesh. Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam Pinoy ako! =) For you Philippine players out there, join us in the Pinoy channel
Gant Stryker AWE Corporation Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.04 06:38:00 - [18] Edited by: Gant Stryker on 04/11/2006 06:42:28 Edited by: Gant Stryker on 04/11/2006 06:42:15 Killing the pod makes your 0.0 war target travel 30 jumps to get back to the front. Killing the pod makes them plug in a new set of expensive speed implants for their inty. Killing the pod is adding insult to the injury. Oh yeah.. on the killboards a matched ship and pod set gives nice symmetry.
Dano Sarum Giants in the Playground Black Flag Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.04 07:08:00 - [19] Well, I pirate and well... I don't allways go for the pod, infact I hardly ever do. I gain totally nothing from it, take a big sec hit and all I do is harm the other person... that said if the person **es me off I will (same with wars). Most people do it though purely because they're *holes. It's great being Amarr, aint it?
Benglada Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.11.04 07:12:00 - [20] Honestly..... You can argue it gets them out of local etc but...... why not pod kill? --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends.

Wolfways Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.11.04 07:23:00 - [21] Originally by: Hamfast First off, I am not talking about being at war... but just the drive-by podding thing... I can see a reason to blast someone elses ship, you get to loot their stuff... that makes sense to me... but why pod them? Is there anything to gain from it? (no, it did not happen to me... yet) Because the majority of "pirates" are actually just pk's who infect every new MMO like a virus and try to justify their actions in any way they can..."I'm not a murderer, i'm a pirate". I'm all for pvp, corp wars, etc. But random killing should have some consequence. But game companies aren't going to make games that hurt customers, even if those customers get their jollies by hurting others. Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish
Cipher7	Posted - 2006.11.04 08:04:00 - [22] Adding cost to their losses.
Cipher7	Posted - 2006.11.04 08:14:00 - [23] Originally by: Wolfways Originally by: Hamfast First off, I am not talking about being at war... but just the drive-by podding thing... I can see a reason to blast someone elses ship, you get to loot their stuff... that makes sense to me... but why pod them? Is there anything to gain from it? (no, it did not happen to me... yet) Because the majority of "pirates" are actually just pk's who infect every new MMO like a virus and try to justify their actions in any way they can..."I'm not a murderer, i'm a pirate". I'm all for pvp, corp wars, etc. But random killing should have some consequence. But game companies aren't going to make games that hurt customers, even if those customers get their jollies by hurting others. If you are not in Concord protected space, chances are you are in someone's claimed space. Even in some parts of highsec, some corps claim a particular system as "theirs" and will work to wardec and harass and steal until all non-members move out. You have to remember Eve is a PvP game. Gathering resources is PVP, industry is PVP, everything revolves are claiming space and doing things to control that space. The mechanics change based on the security rating of the system you are in, but at no time are you "safe." Even in Jita you are not safe.
Caleb Paine ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.04 08:32:00 - [24] I fail to see how podding someone is different from destroying his ship... If you destroy his ship you cost him money and effort to replace it, same thing with podding but for some reason people find that podding is evil or that people who do this eat babies for breakfast... I think people read too many things into someone else's actions. -------------------------------- ISS Navy Task Force; Protecting your interest.
Iced Casing	Posted - 2006.11.04 08:33:00 - [25] because it adds economic balance into the game ... keeps prices decent for implants ... :) and the best way to avoid it is not to play eve ;) ... as for the person that persecuted the PK'ers pls go back to your other mmorpgs where our pitrates are called pk'ers (aka lame games), we like our pirates ... its fun killing eachother thats whats making this game so fun ... they kill you you kill them ... its not like they are invincible ...
Wolfways Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.11.04 10:28:00 - [26] Quote: we like our pirates ... its fun killing eachother thats whats making this game so fun Well other than ignoring the fact that "pirates" kill anyone, not just each other, what you're saying is that your playstyle should be forced on everyone? Which in essence is what a pk does. I have nothing against pvp, i actually love pvp. But when someone kills me i want it to be for a game-related reason, not just to make someone feel better because he killed my character. There are other games made specifically for that. If i wanted to be involved with that kind of gameplay i'd play those games. But in any game where it's possible to kill other characters people will play solely for that reason. I find it quite sad actually... Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish
Ishida Akiko Caldari The Carebear Club	Posted - 2006.11.04 10:42:00 - [27] Why not? --- Cool, now go away.
Chrysaetus	Posted - 2006.11.04 11:54:00 - [28] I believe pod killing to be more of an affirmation than a strategy for making money. I have a Pirate alt, and I try to work around killing the pod and making some money. It¦s just an affirmation of power of one player over other, no matter what the excuses are in my humble opinion.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.04 12:45:00 - [29] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 04/11/2006 12:45:38 Originally by: Wolfways Originally by: Hamfast First off, I am not talking about being at war... but just the drive-by podding thing... I can see a reason to blast someone elses ship, you get to loot their stuff... that makes sense to me... but why pod them? Is there anything to gain from it? (no, it did not happen to me... yet) Because the majority of "pirates" are actually just pk's who infect every new MMO like a virus and try to justify their actions in any way they can..."I'm not a murderer, i'm a pirate". I'm all for pvp, corp wars, etc. But random killing should have some consequence. But game companies aren't going to make games that hurt customers, even if those customers get their jollies by hurting others. You really have no idea what you're talking about. A pirate, by definition, kills for personal profit. Podkilling increases that profit by decreasing the odds that the victim will alert all those in the system to the pirate. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
MrTripps Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.04 14:23:00 - [30] To get rid of an embarrassingly high sec status. Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell

Wolfways Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.11.04 18:57:00 - [31] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 04/11/2006 12:45:38 Originally by: Wolfways Originally by: Hamfast First off, I am not talking about being at war... but just the drive-by podding thing... I can see a reason to blast someone elses ship, you get to loot their stuff... that makes sense to me... but why pod them? Is there anything to gain from it? (no, it did not happen to me... yet) Because the majority of "pirates" are actually just pk's who infect every new MMO like a virus and try to justify their actions in any way they can..."I'm not a murderer, i'm a pirate". I'm all for pvp, corp wars, etc. But random killing should have some consequence. But game companies aren't going to make games that hurt customers, even if those customers get their jollies by hurting others. You really have no idea what you're talking about. A pirate, by definition, kills for personal profit. Podkilling increases that profit by decreasing the odds that the victim will alert all those in the system to the pirate. Okay, as you have no idea what a pirate is i'll explain. 1) A pirate steals things. 2) If a pirate needs to kill someone who is defending the "prize" then he becomes known as a murderer. So, if you pod someone when they are no threat you are a murderer. See? Simple. Now excuse me, i need to go kill someone for a pirate video... Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish
Guile D'Verde	Posted - 2006.11.04 19:10:00 - [32] Quote: So, if you pod someone when they are no threat you are a murderer. See? Simple. Pods do cause threats for pirates by alerting the system of their presence.
Hamfast Gallente Lightfoot Industries	Posted - 2006.11.04 20:56:00 - [33] So Pirates kill Ships for profit... yet make no profit from pod killing... I guess other then making it easier to sneak up on their next target... so a fair fight is also not in a pirateÆs best interest. I guess I need a Titan to mine in .4 space or lowerà (In the interest of making this an unfair fight that I may have half a chance in)... It would also seem that if I come under attack at some point, I should first broadcast in the local channel that "Fuzznuts the Pirate is attacking me" and then be quiet... because the system would then be alerted to the pirate, yet I am not talking smack... thus no more reason to pod me... no more element of surprise... more of a chance that the pirate will run into a fair fight, or as it seems, run from the fair fight... Yes, I will admit it, I am not into the PvP Combat thing... If I have a chance I will run away... even in my Titan Miner... Thanks for all the input, it proves to me that the same types of people play all these games... which is no surprise to me. Noob in training...
Cipher7	Posted - 2006.11.04 22:55:00 - [34] Tards. PvP isn't a "playstyle" its the whole game. From the first second you turn on the mining laser of your rookieship, and sell the ore on the open market, you are an industrial mercenary, mining veld and selling it to the highest bidder for an entity that builds ships, those ships are later going to be used to assert control over a star system. Industry is PVP. In Eve everything you do affects the balance of power. Except missions, they affect jack diddly squat, and have no place in Eve. You could take all the missions, package them up as a sinlge-player game, add an IRC chat window, and nobody would know the difference except that the lag would decrease. Stupid decision by CCP to spend so much resources on making missions. When mission runners have a discussion I feel like I'm back in WoW listening to a bunch of carebears talk about their +5 fire sword.
Crewman Jenkins	Posted - 2006.11.05 00:01:00 - [35] I must agree with cipher7.
SadisticSavior Caldari Edenists	Posted - 2006.11.05 00:56:00 - [36] Edited by: SadisticSavior on 05/11/2006 01:00:32 Without missions, pretty much all you could do at the low end is courier or mine crap. Or ratting.
Draconia Blackheart Disciples of the Underverse	Posted - 2006.11.05 01:47:00 - [37] Originally by: Cipher7 Tards. PvP isn't a "playstyle" its the whole game. TOTAL GARBAGE, "Tard" "Killing the other soul" and 'Podding' are a VERY SMALL part of Eve. Originally by: Cipher7 Industry is PVP. Really?. Tell me, how do you 'pod' someone in industry, how do you cost them thier ship and implants, how do you get 'loot' from the market. Originally by: Cipher7 In Eve everything you do affects the balance of power. About the only thing you said thats correct.. Originally by: Cipher7 Except missions, they affect jack diddly squat, and have no place in Eve. Mission give you Faction Ratings that can be used for peaceful persuit..Oh, Sorry! I forgot thats only for people with a brain not just a blaster!..
Mayoz Miner	Posted - 2006.11.05 01:57:00 - [38] Originally by: Cipher7 Tards. PvP isn't a "playstyle" its the whole game. From the first second you turn on the mining laser of your rookieship, and sell the ore on the open market, you are an industrial mercenary, mining veld and selling it to the highest bidder for an entity that builds ships, those ships are later going to be used to assert control over a star system. Industry is PVP. In Eve everything you do affects the balance of power. Except missions, they affect jack diddly squat, and have no place in Eve. You could take all the missions, package them up as a sinlge-player game, add an IRC chat window, and nobody would know the difference except that the lag would decrease. Stupid decision by CCP to spend so much resources on making missions. When mission runners have a discussion I feel like I'm back in WoW listening to a bunch of carebears talk about their +5 fire sword. In your opinion .... not CCP's This game is MOSTLY about PVP and like you said on many lvl's, but if you think mission running doesn't effect the game then your deluded. ppl make cash by running missions, alot of cash and some use this cash to buy PVP ships modules ect it is not uncommon for ppl to have 2 chars 1 for PVP one for PVE ! All them ppl that play Caldari are PVPER's? I think more than a few enjoy* PVE lol Some ppl dont like to PVP 23/7 some dont like direct PVP at all, wether they like it or not this game has a large element of PVP and wether YOU like it or not it has a smaller element of PVE all of which is involved in the game. IMO the best way to play this game is to experinace all parts of it PVP at all lvls and PVE too. P.S. Getting rid of choice(between PVP and PVE) means getting rid of customers/players, the more trhe merrier IMO.
Crewman Jenkins	Posted - 2006.11.05 02:47:00 - [39] Edited by: Crewman Jenkins on 05/11/2006 02:47:52 .
Cipher7	Posted - 2006.11.05 06:05:00 - [40] Open up your map, select the factions tab, and choose to view all factions. THAT is what makes Eve Eve. Without that, Eve is just WoW in space. The political side of Eve, the industrial, and financial sides, that's what really makes Eve special and differentiates it from every other piece of crap ever printed on a CD. Other than putting implants on the market, mission runners are irrelevant to Eve. 20,000 mission runners could disappear tommorrow and the faction map would be exactly the same. At the very least level 3's should be in lowsec, and level 4's should be in 0.0 Then you could say that mish running is an alternate form of making isk for PVP. Maybe we'd see some Navy Ravens in fleet battles, instead of sitting in a hangar never to be properly used.

Sakura Nihil Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.05 06:18:00 - [41] Okay, in Kali 1 (a.k.a. Revelations), they're introducing the ability to recover implants from corpses. There, you now have an official reason as it would make you money.
Sun Win Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2006.11.05 07:04:00 - [42] Originally by: Wolfways Because the majority of "pirates" are actually just pk's who infect every new MMO like a virus and try to justify their actions in any way they can..."I'm not a murderer, i'm a pirate". A well known legend about Edward Teach is that he once shot his own first mate to 'remind people who I am.' Sir, are you trying to tell me that BLACKBEARD was not a pirate? New to Eve? Learn to Fly - join channel: "Eve University" or read here
Draconia Blackheart Disciples of the Underverse	Posted - 2006.11.05 07:24:00 - [43] Edited by: Draconia Blackheart on 05/11/2006 07:27:04 Well, me and my friends playing have absolutr shirtloads of fun not killing anyone, and from what we have heard of the *holes in low-sec will prolly never venture out past 0.5. Dosen't that just ps you off! That we are having heaps of fun in eve and not bowing to the all-friggin-mighty-PVP.. There is ALOT more to EVE than just PVP...if anyone takes the time to think past the trigger.. But I can't put it down to much since we are getting absolutly filthy rich selling stuff to trigger-happy "people" over and over again... Cheers
Sakura Nihil Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.05 07:32:00 - [44] Originally by: Draconia Blackheart Edited by: Draconia Blackheart on 05/11/2006 07:27:04 Well, me and my friends playing have absolutr shirtloads of fun not killing anyone, and from what we have heard of the *holes in low-sec will prolly never venture out past 0.5. Dosen't that just ps you off! That we are having heaps of fun in eve and not bowing to the all-friggin-mighty-PVP.. There is ALOT more to EVE than just PVP...if anyone takes the time to think past the trigger.. But I can't put it down to much since we are getting absolutly filthy rich selling stuff to trigger-happy "people" over and over again... Cheers Don't forget that just because people PvP a lot, and kill dozens of pods, doesn't mean they don't mission *****, mine, research, or other things like that. Have you ever lived a life of piracy? Its very hard to maintain a positive income unless you're pretty experienced at it or have a good carebear alt to make you cash. Besides, imo, podding isn't personal - if you were (back in my old NBSI days :p) in a belt or travelling in lowsec or 0.0 and I got you, you were going to die if I had anything to say about it. I don't discriminate, I'd go for the ship, then the pod, it was your own fault for wandering the spacelanes insufficiently protected. Sadly, I'm NRDS policy-based right now, so if you're not -10 to my alliance/corp, you're fine . Lucky you.
Caleb Paine ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.05 09:32:00 - [45] Edited by: Caleb Paine on 05/11/2006 09:35:03 Draconia, everything in EVE is PVP, apart from missionrunning but even that is half PVP. This is because PVP isn't just pewpew, PVP is competing against a fellow player. - if you start a corp you are competing with other corps for members and when you have those you'll try and find a nice homesystem, which you are competing for with others as well. - If you mine you compete for asteroids, you compete by upping your skills so you get a better profit from the ore you refine so that you can sell them cheaper on the market than someone else... you're competing with that other one. - if you produce ships or modules you are competing with others on that market, you try to find the best spot to sell, you try to produce your product as cheap as possible and you try to maximize your profit by competing against others. - if you trade you're PVPing as well, you are trying to outsmart other people and other traders by finding a good traderoute, lowering your cost by getting skills for trading and hauling so you're able to maximize your effort better than some other trader. You also monitor the prices a lot of times, adjusting yours to be able to sell your products, you are competing. - and yes, mission running is partly PVP as well as you'll sell the loot directly, or reprocess it and sell the minerals. By trying to sell them you are, in effect, competing with someone else who wants to sell his stuff as well. This game is about competing with others, in every aspect of the game you do so. And competing with other players is what defines PVP. It's not just the shooty shooty part. -------------------------------- ISS Navy Task Force; Protecting your interest.
master bates Amarr Smoking Hillbillys	Posted - 2006.11.05 09:54:00 - [46] dunno if anyone has mentioned this yet but you can place bounties on pirates, if you podkill them you get the bounty, and consideringn some pirates have bounties well over 1 billion isk, why shouldnt i pod him people also when they lose their ship like to just sit there in the pod, without trying to warp, so they provide the oppurtunity to be podded, a smart pilot wil click on a planet and spam the overview warp to 15km button as their ship is dieing so they warp instantly, do this and you wil never be podded. missions
Cipher7	Posted - 2006.11.05 11:02:00 - [47] Originally by: Draconia Blackheart Edited by: Draconia Blackheart on 05/11/2006 07:27:04 Well, me and my friends playing have absolutr shirtloads of fun not killing anyone, and from what we have heard of the *holes in low-sec will prolly never venture out past 0.5. Dosen't that just ps you off! That we are having heaps of fun in eve and not bowing to the all-friggin-mighty-PVP.. There is ALOT more to EVE than just PVP...if anyone takes the time to think past the trigger.. But I can't put it down to much since we are getting absolutly filthy rich selling stuff to trigger-happy "people" over and over again... Cheers What do people like you do with the money? At some point you have a few billion sitting around. Making cash aint that hard. The fun part is buying expensive toys and breaking them. Its like...disdain for material crap. You are not your possessions, your wallet doesn't care about you. The only real currency that exists is the in-game friendships that you form, having fun times with people that you enjoy hanging out with. In my mind everyone who does PVP for a while learns to love it. The barrier is that ppl get scared of losing virtual "stuff" or even worse have a huge ego where they feel personally "dissed" for being ganked. The *******s in low-sec these days hang out in nice safe places like Jita where they prey on unsuspecting haulers.
Caleb Paine ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.05 11:07:00 - [48] Edited by: Caleb Paine on 05/11/2006 11:11:01 Edited by: Caleb Paine on 05/11/2006 11:09:53 That's a bit too simplictic Cipher... Everyone is different, everyone likes and dislikes different things. Not everyone likes (or will like) shootyshooty, not everyone likes mining, hauling or producing. The trick is acknowledging that everyone is different and entitle them to BE different, the first step to that is trying to understand why they feel different about things instead of spouting unfounded crap (this goes both ways). It's not bad to be different or have a different view, it's bad to call other's views wrong unless you have gauged both sides of the arguement and have enough knowledge to SAY someone is wrong. -------------------------------- ISS Navy Task Force; Protecting your interest.
Cipher7	Posted - 2006.11.05 11:20:00 - [49] Originally by: Caleb Paine Edited by: Caleb Paine on 05/11/2006 11:09:53 That's a bit too simplictic Cipher... Everyone is different, everyone likes and dislikes different things. Not everyone likes (or will like) shootyshooty, not everyone likes mining, hauling or producing. The trick is acknowledging that everyone is different and entitle them to BE different, the first step to that is trying to understand why they feel different about things instead of spouting unfounded crap (this goes both ways). It's not bad to be different or have a different view, it's bad to call other's views wrong and even worse doing so without actually knowing what they're talking about. Oh yeah definitely, people do like different things. But if you like shooting bots, then you like shooting in general. And its generally more fun with a human being on the other end, just that most people don't invest the time and energy to actually get to enjoy it. Alot of people regard getting podded as a "diss." Its just the opposite. People pod you when they regard you as a threat, trying to do maximum financial damage to you. That's not a dismissal of you as a person, that's respecting you as a person. A diss would be if they scramble and web your pod and go make a sandwich.
Wolfways Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.11.05 11:55:00 - [50] Originally by: Sun Win Originally by: Wolfways Because the majority of "pirates" are actually just pk's who infect every new MMO like a virus and try to justify their actions in any way they can..."I'm not a murderer, i'm a pirate". A well known legend about Edward Teach is that he once shot his own first mate to 'remind people who I am.' Sir, are you trying to tell me that BLACKBEARD was not a pirate? No, i'm saying that they often go hand in hand. But...Edward Teach also preferred to give people a choice. They could fight and die or hand over the goods and walk away. So if the infamous Blackbeard was a pod-pilot i think that it's unlikely he'd pod someone. They are no longer trouble and he has the loot. Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish

Wolfways Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.11.05 12:03:00 - [51] Somehow this thread has become a pvp discussion, when i think the OP was actually asking about pirates, or random killing. Both involve "podding", but the difference is that in pvp players fight for a purpose (control of an area, members, revenge, etc) whereas pirating is more about looking for fights where the pirate (the pk, not the roleplayer) has an advantage (the easier the better) and is about killing...and loot is secondary IMO. Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish
Draconia Blackheart Disciples of the Underverse	Posted - 2006.11.05 12:53:00 - [52] To you hard core PVP'ers that think you 'own the place'..and its your way or the highway...get a life.. The definition of PVP, in every gen and in EVE is armed combat human vs human. "Kill the other Guy"..equating this to other aspects of EVE IS NOT the same thing..its ludicous and is not even in the same ballpark A 'Home' System?, the Galentte Federation is my 'Home System', and I don't have to defend it..CONCORD does.. What do we do with the snotloads of money? Pretty Easy we buy BPO's for T2 and Cap ship componets at outragous prices. We produce T2 ships that people just love to blow up and 'pirates' just love to blow up.. We build T1 Ships ans a huge range of items for hardly more than a few hundred rounds of ammo, since most rats in 0.5 high sec drop items that refine into every sibgle mineral need for T1 ships and items. People LOVE to buy them. Megas, Ravens, Ferox's and then go out and blow them up in PVP land and if we are the lowest price, we get all that nice insurance money when they rinse and repeat a few hundred times... We keep hi-sec POS's running even when we have to buy all the materials to keep them running because of the favourism shown to low-sec, and we still have more than we can spend...so why the HE11 would we want to go to low sec? Better Money?? No.. Rich here in Hig Sec..minimal risk of dying..minimal frustration from ***holes.. Someone want to get nasty and declare war... No worries, we send out a bullitin for people to use an alt no listed in the corp, let them spend millions a day we will just stockpile our cash till they get bored or are bankrupt. Then fill the corporate coffers again, losing nothing and gaining everything. Money is Power my friends, here and in RL. If we want you dead or just about anyone dead here..We can always give a merc faction a couple billion and your dead! and we never stepped out of Hi-Sec.. So DON'T EVEN TRY to convince me that EVE is PVP (in the traditional sense) and thats the ONLY way to go..go tell it to the gullible noobers.. Of course I don't assume your limited facilties can understand anything other than your neanderthal approach to most everything. "if it moves shoot it..and shoot it again" And "Oh sorry I killed you and podded you, nothing personal" ..YEAH RIGHT! I don't think it can get more peronal than that. Cheers
Cipher7	Posted - 2006.11.05 14:05:00 - [53] Edited by: Cipher7 on 05/11/2006 14:06:37 Edited by: Cipher7 on 05/11/2006 14:05:18 Hiring mercs is pvp. Industry is pvp. Economy is pvp. Market is pvp. By the way I'm primarily a miner, shooting people is just something I do on the side for fun.
Caleb Paine ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.05 14:43:00 - [54] Draconia, stop trying to claim tyhe high ground implying that you are somehow smarter, or better than someone else. You might get proven wrong somewhere down the line, besides it's very unbecoming. All I see you do is shout about how your POV is truth while foaming at the mouth. PVP is not "armed combat" as you put it. That's how you PERCIEVE it. PVP is PLAYER vs. PLAYER, it does in any way state that this has to be shooting stuff. It's going against another player, be it with weapons, brains or assets. -------------------------------- ISS Navy Task Force; Protecting your interest.
Leonardo Sabrioski Xoth Inc Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.05 19:06:00 - [55] Edited by: Leonardo Sabrioski on 05/11/2006 19:07:20 pod killing is a way to show your 1337 locking times :) and that is why gate campers have 6x sensor boosters on :D I don't get why peopoe moan about pods, to me pods is a more maneuverable ship. It has insta align and warp, and it takes 2 cap to warp 200 AU. basically its the 1337est thing to fly. O yeah and I spend half of my time on EVE in a pod (note: for you noobs it may not apply for you do not know about a lot of things) (note: pods are sexy) (note: PODS ARE SEXY!!)
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.05 22:49:00 - [56] Originally by: Draconia Blackheart The definition of PVP, in every gen and in EVE is armed combat human vs human. The developers of EVE would strongly disagree with you -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Draconia Blackheart Disciples of the Underverse	Posted - 2006.11.05 23:25:00 - [57] Originally by: Caleb Paine Draconia, stop trying to claim the high ground implying that you are somehow smarter, or better than someone else. I don't have to claim anything because I am at what I do... Originally by: Caleb Paine Its very unbecoming. Err..so what??, who am I trying to impress, I'm not looking for a mate. Originally by: Caleb Paine All I see you do is shout about how your POV is truth while foaming at the mouth. Now if that isn't the pot calling the kettle black! I have seen YOUR posts as well as alot of others here. This is too! retoric...(falls off chair laughing) Cheers
Guile D'Verde	Posted - 2006.11.06 00:05:00 - [58] Edited by: Guile D''Verde on 06/11/2006 00:06:06 I don't really understand where the debate or hate is coming from on either side of the issue. As long as you don't undock with things you aren't prepared to lose--implants included--there shouldn't be any hard-feelings about PVP losses. edit: spelling is hard.
Crewman Jenkins	Posted - 2006.11.06 14:44:00 - [59] This thread has kind of gone off topic, but oh well. I don't understand why its bad for me to enjoy pvp. I just do not have fun mining, or missioning/ratting. I guess If each mission had a very engaging storyline, and took a twist or two I would think its more fun. I know they do have story lines, but basically its an instanced complex. I had fun mining for about one week. I made a raven and sold it for 110 mil, so I was happy. Then I just got burnt out on sitting around clicking on virtual rocks. In between the mining and the mission running I did a month or so of PvP down in the Catch 0.0 region. It was a blast. Its the most fun Iv had on EVE so far. I quit that corp to join some friends back in empire for about two months, but now I find myself looking for a way back into 0.0 so I can pvp again. About podding as a presence of power, you're right to an extent. Its kind of a little FU to the guy you podded. The other reason is a bunch of things that could be; Destroying the guys implants will hopefully make him weaker next time, maybe the guys clone costs so much he wont be able to field that t2 ship next time. Theres all kinds of reasons to pod. My favorite one is just to have the pod mail. What can I say, I'm a griefer at heart, though I may be bound by corp rules. Though the usual reason for most people, I think, is the hope that when one is podded it will deter further incursions into home space, or break moral if you are the invader. As for pirates, some really do only ransom your ship. Others don't care about payoffs, the leftover modules are good enough for them. The real mean ones ransom your ship, then blow it up. For some thats a way to gain infamy, which is their end game. Others just think its fun to blow people up, and cant even tell you why they like it. A fight can go any way you can imaging once its begun, will I get the money this time, or is there another ship floating around that I dont know about? That is my attempt to explain why some people do what they do. I think its great that you're having fun in high sec. It goes to show that you don't have to go into the deep end to have fun in EVE. I do, however, think it is rather odd that you dislike the pvp and the podding so much that you will avoid it at all costs, and badmouth others that do it. Yet, you admit that you would hand others over to those that will pod and grief kill, by hiring mercs. So because you are indirectly involved in the actual killing, its ok by your high moral standards?
Ishida Akiko Caldari The Carebear Club	Posted - 2006.11.06 14:58:00 - [60] Originally by: Draconia Blackheart Edited by: Draconia Blackheart on 05/11/2006 13:19:51 To you hard core PVP'ers that think you 'own the place'..and its your way or the highway...get a life.. The definition of PVP, in every gen and in EVE is armed combat human vs human. "Kill the other Guy"..equating this to other aspects of EVE IS NOT the same thing..its ludicous and is not even in the same ballpark Cheers Get a clue, I think there are some t2 ones for sale in Jita. --- Cool, now go away.

Simon Jax Gallente Freelancing Corp	Posted - 2006.11.06 20:12:00 - [61] Griefing, in a game such as this, should really be considered anything that ruins the game for you, not just something that ruins your day. That's my opinion, mind you, and I am quite entitled to it. Getting podded sure can ruin one's day. Losing a ship in and of itself can ruin one's day, even if you can easily afford to replace it. I don't know about you, but while I can always afford to replace my ships easily ... doing so is often a pain in the butt. I change up fittings and fly too many different ships to keep four copies of each ship/setup in my hangar, so getting my ship destroyed takes time to replace. Does that ruin the game for me? No, no it doesn't. Does it ruin my evening. Sure it does, if I was looking to rat/mine/mission run and have to stop to refit my ship, it's less fun. I'm sure once I PvP more it'll be a different story. Losing ships/pods is something more akin to running low on ammo in that case, and I don't get all **y when I gotta return to a can/station to get more ammo. In 0.0 space, podding keeps your butt outta someone elses space. If you break into someone else's home, you shouldn't exactly be expecting them to hit you with a pillow. Expect the baseball bat. In lowsec space, podding keeps you quiet. It keeps you from warning people in local, and odds are it keeps you from getting back to the adjacent system for a while further protecting the gate-camp/pirate presence. Also remember that there are consequences for lowsec gate-campers. Especially one's that pod frequently. They can't use that character outside of lowsec space if they pod too much. They have to use alts/corpmates to hit any major market hubs. Try going from the 'south' side of EVE to the 'north' side of EVE without hitting a single hisec system. They make their own beds, and it ain't cushy like the ones in hisec. Highsec pod killers ... oh so hella rare that you're more likely to lose fifty ships to disconnects before having trouble with these choads. There are perfectly fine and dandy reasons to pod-kill. If you factor in roleplay to the gate-camping pirates, you get yourself easy-reasons for it. "You no pay ransom, I kilz u. You pay ransom, I kilz u eneywa cuz I meen." So let me ask you this: How often have you actually been podded when you've been playing safe? i.e. - checking the map for camp-signs. Does that frequency of 'unavoidable' pod-kills ruin the game for you? Or just that day? Fact: Some people get a kick out of podding people, for whatever reason, deplorable and otherwise. They enjoy the game for letting them do so. If the frequency of 'unavoidable' pod-kills doesn't** ruin the game for you ... can you justify eliminating the pirates ability to do so considering that it would ruin the whole game for them? Whereas getting podded just ruins your day? Come on, if these blokes are getting their giggles out of podding the unwary for no other reason than to say 'he he' ... well, I won't be one to assess the magnitude of their social problems. But lets just say we're likely all better off that they're stuck at a compter playing a game rather than acting out this type of peverse aggression out there in the real world. --Wherever you go, there you are.
Hamfast Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.06 21:23:00 - [62] Originally by: Crewman Jenkins This thread has kind of gone off topic, but oh well. This is true, but it is a given, and so far has been a good discussion. Originally by: Crewman Jenkins I don't understand why its bad for me to enjoy pvp. I just do not have fun mining, or missioning/ratting. I guess If each mission had a very engaging storyline, and took a twist or two I would think its more fun. I know they do have story lines, but basically its an instanced complex... On the PvP (Combat) Front, this is exactly the point... There should be no problem that you enjoy the PvP (combat) in this game or any game, by the same token there should be no problem that I do not... I am adding the combat after PvP to distinguish it from the non-combat, more "Friendly" competition in the game... call it what you like, It's the not shooting at other players part of the game. I mine, I mine a lot, I don't find mining all that much fun, but I do enjoy what it gets me... that you do not enjoy mining means I have a customer (in an indirect way at best at this point, but look me up later)... I look forward to building Ships, making things, getting better at what I enjoy doing... to do this, I mine. I spent all day yesterday running missions, Courier and Kill, what ever comes up, I would take... some were fun, some boring... but I was able to raise my standing, thus lowering my tax rate, so that I am now only losing 3.2% to the tax man (down from 3.8%) I felt the accomplishment of this, that others may not see this as an accomplishment is not the issue, that they feel my feelings of accomplishment are silly is... Just like the folks that look down on you for your enjoyment of PvP (combat). I started this thread to find out why one would bother podding another player (outside of a war) and found the answers both enlightening and ignorantà but all good points in the discussionà I started out with the acknowledgement that killing someone elseÆs Ship nets you loot as well as podding during a war (declared or to defend a system) has some added measure of value (I had not thought of all of those, but I learned a bit more in this thread about it)à We should all agree that we each play this game to have fun, and while we may not agree on how we have fun (each of us will have our own view on ôWhat is fun?ö) we should recognize that we are all in this for the fun. I will even go so far as to say the person who plays the ôEvil Nasty Pirateö(ENP) that will kill you and pod you as soon as look at you (normally attacking with ôoverwhelming Forceö) is in their own way having fun, and if it bothers us (the non-PvP (Combat) folks) then we need to keep our butts in safer locationsà there are enough folks that enjoy the ôThrillö of surviving in low sec space that the ENPÆs will always have targets. Noob in training...
Crewman Jenkins	Posted - 2006.11.06 22:17:00 - [63] Edited by: Crewman Jenkins on 06/11/2006 22:18:16 Agreed Though most of my post was directed at drac.
Draconia Blackheart Disciples of the Underverse	Posted - 2006.11.06 23:54:00 - [64] I am not a Anti-PVP Zealot..I do not tell people "Don't PVP...its wrong". If you enjoy PVP and its your game, you have every right to it..more power to you. What I resent and what he 'greifing' was about is when people like Cipher7 start trying to shove it down peoples throats that 'If your not low-sec PVP and you have the capability to, then YOUR not playing the game right'. I'm a miner and manufacturer, and I PVE. I'm more into 'empire building' than 'Killing the other Guy' in a space battle. The one or two times I even decided to go outside 0.5 (like a 0.4 system 1 jump from Hi-Sec) I was 'podded' for no other reason than I was there. No one 'owned' the place like 0.0. So I decided I need escort so me and my corp mates brought in some heavy guns to defend. Someone comes in see more than 1 ship, leaves and comes back 2 mins later with an armada to gank the lot of us.. This is see no reason for other than being a**holes. If the want to PVP they should go PVP not sit around waiting for peaceful miners to gank. But I guess no one will ever see my point, I will just get accused of doing what other are (stating my opinion) but it seems there is only one allowed in these forums. I can see why Alexis decided to drop even coming to this place.. Laters
Athanasios Anastasiou Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2006.11.07 00:19:00 - [65] Originally by: Draconia Blackheart I am not a Anti-PVP Zealot..I do not tell people "Don't PVP...its wrong". If you enjoy PVP and its your game, you have every right to it..more power to you. What I resent and what he 'greifing' was about is when people like Cipher7 start trying to shove it down peoples throats that 'If your not low-sec PVP and you have the capability to, then YOUR not playing the game right'. I'm a miner and manufacturer, and I PVE. I'm more into 'empire building' than 'Killing the other Guy' in a space battle. The one or two times I even decided to go outside 0.5 (like a 0.4 system 1 jump from Hi-Sec) I was 'podded' for no other reason than I was there. No one 'owned' the place like 0.0. So I decided I need escort so me and my corp mates brought in some heavy guns to defend. Someone comes in see more than 1 ship, leaves and comes back 2 mins later with an armada to gank the lot of us.. This is see no reason for other than being a**holes. If the want to PVP they should go PVP not sit around waiting for peaceful miners to gank. But I guess no one will ever see my point, I will just get accused of doing what other are (stating my opinion) but it seems there is only one allowed in these forums. I can see why Alexis decided to drop even coming to this place.. Laters Wow. So let me get this straight, you have the right to express your opinion, but the rest of the people here don't? FYI, mining in low sec is pvp. You are as a PLAYER competing against other PLAYERS for ore. If you can't see the reason for people to gank miners when half of them are carrying 10m+ loot and can be taken down in less than a minute, then I don't really know what to say.
Draconia Blackheart Disciples of the Underverse	Posted - 2006.11.07 00:33:00 - [66] Originally by: Athanasios Anastasiou Wow. So let me get this straight, you have the right to express your opinion, but the rest of the people here don't? ****..get some reading skills..thats not what I said.. Ahh..whats the use..guess I just lurk from now on.. Jeez...
Athanasios Anastasiou Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2006.11.07 03:06:00 - [67] Originally by: Draconia Blackheart Originally by: Athanasios Anastasiou Wow. So let me get this straight, you have the right to express your opinion, but the rest of the people here don't? ****..get some reading skills..thats not what I said.. Ahh..whats the use..guess I just lurk from now on.. Jeez... Actually, my reading skills are all trained at level 5. I am training advanced reading skill to level 5 as we speak. Sorry if I sounded very condescending. Fact is, everyone here is expressing their own opinion, that's the basis of a forum. If all you want are people who agree with you, then this is not the place to be. That said, we are not mindless drones following the opinion of the forum collective as you accuse us of being. It's just that most people disagrees with you, and they have a right to that opinion. Instead of having the 'everyone is against me' mentality, you should keep an open mind.
Cipher7	Posted - 2006.11.07 05:22:00 - [68] Listen. Eve is a pure PVP game. Thats not my wish, or a statement of support for Eve having no room for carebears, thats my perception of what Eve is. I got no power to change it, to give you a place in Eve, so I tell people up front so they don't waste months training up only to find out "oh wow, someone can wardec my mining corp for only 2 million isk." Highsec is not safe. Nowhere is safe. There is no PVE side of Eve. Even the most carebear corp have to be %50 pvp just to function day to day. People can wardec you just for being easy target. IMO if someone wants to sit in highsec and mine, they should be able to do that. But you can't do even that without being mindful of ore thieves. In highsec ppl can scan your mission and jack your loot cans. Nowhere is safe. If you do not accept that fact, then prepare for a long career of being angry.
Wolfways Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.11.07 05:27:00 - [69] I think what Draconia is trying to explain to you (and i apologize if i'm wrong) is the difference in attitude between pve players and pvp players. I've seen the same attitude in every MMO i've played. Whereas pve'ers will say "I play my way, you play yours", pvp'ers are more likely to say "My way is right, you're playing wrong". Also, if a pve player gets anywhere near a pvp area he is usually forced (i.e. pk'd) to be a part of the pvp'ers playstyle. And please will people stop saying that industry etc is pvp. If that was true then you'd have to say that everything we do in life is pvp. Anyone knows that pvp in games is referring to actual combat between players. Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish
Wolfways Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.11.07 05:56:00 - [70] Quote: Listen. Eve is a pure PVP game. Thats not my wish, or a statement of support for Eve having no room for carebears, thats my perception of what Eve is. Must be tough for you, never ratting for ISK's. But then again, i guess you would support the total removal of npc's from low-sec? Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish

Cipher7	Posted - 2006.11.07 06:38:00 - [71] Originally by: Wolfways Quote: Listen. Eve is a pure PVP game. Thats not my wish, or a statement of support for Eve having no room for carebears, thats my perception of what Eve is. Must be tough for you, never ratting for ISK's. But then again, i guess you would support the total removal of npc's from low-sec? Doesn't matter what I support. Eve is what it is. I think earlier we mentioned that pvp refers to a general competition for resources.
Cipher7	Posted - 2006.11.07 06:55:00 - [72] Originally by: Wolfways I think what Draconia is trying to explain to you (and i apologize if i'm wrong) is the difference in attitude between pve players and pvp players. I've seen the same attitude in every MMO i've played. Whereas pve'ers will say "I play my way, you play yours", pvp'ers are more likely to say "My way is right, you're playing wrong". Also, if a pve player gets anywhere near a pvp area he is usually forced (i.e. pk'd) to be a part of the pvp'ers playstyle. And please will people stop saying that industry etc is pvp. If that was true then you'd have to say that everything we do in life is pvp. Anyone knows that pvp in games is referring to actual combat between players. Nobody is saying "my way is the right way." We are saying, "This is how things work in Eve." And yes everything in life is pvp.
Mr Ninjaface Minmatar Shurekin INC	Posted - 2006.11.07 06:57:00 - [73] go play wow
Caleb Paine ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.07 07:32:00 - [74] Edited by: Caleb Paine on 07/11/2006 07:35:58 Originally by: Wolfways And please will people stop saying that industry etc is pvp. If that was true then you'd have to say that everything we do in life is pvp. Anyone knows that pvp in games is referring to actual combat between players. But that is exactly our point Wolfways. PVP is player vs. player... on all levels. If you don't believe me have a look at the corporate world, see how many people get bankrupted, lose their job, thrive, see their company be destroyed by opportunists and all that, purely due to the competetiveness and rivalry amongst men. People will go to great length to make sure they end up on top and if they have to do that while pushing down others they will do so. It doesn't get any more PVP than that and there's no shooty shooty involved, it's all done by waging a war of money, assets, politics and intel. If people see this happening and want no part in this, they do not need the cut throat competition. they do not need to 'win' over another man, and state that they have no intention of being/playing that way, more power to them. But they can not ignore the FACT that besides them all this stuff is happening. Everything is PVP. -------------------------------- ISS Navy Task Force; Protecting your interest.
Draconia Blackheart Disciples of the Underverse	Posted - 2006.11.07 09:09:00 - [75] Edited by: Draconia Blackheart on 07/11/2006 09:11:16 Originally by: Cipher7 Listen. Eve is a pure PVP game. LISTEN!..Your opinion not mine..or that of alot of others Originally by: Cipher7 There is no PVE side of Eve. So I guess those strange EVE-controlled ship that attack me in astroid belts and missions are just figment of my imagination? They seem to be there.. Originally by: Cipher7 Even the most carebear corp have to be %50 pvp just to function day to day. People can wardec you just for being easy target. IMO if someone wants to sit in highsec and mine, they should be able to do that. But you can't do even that without being mindful of ore thieves. In highsec ppl can scan your mission and jack your loot cans. Well, if someone wardecs us we just switch to our alts who arent in the corp, and carry on business as usual, while the attackers waste millions of ISK for nothing....That annoyance solved... Come jack my can! You will get 1 round of ammo because we use the 'dump truck' techique, the can is only there to transfer to the indy nearby...that annoyance solved Originally by: Cipher7 Nowhere is safe. Again YOUR opinion, all I have to do is have enough shield/armour/hull to survive the first few shots..then no matter what they are TOAST! Even IF we die we have the statifaction of knowing our attacker is dust. Originally by: Cipher7 If you do not accept that fact, then prepare for a long career of being angry. Heed you own words...heh
Caleb Paine ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.07 09:18:00 - [76] Hell, even this forum is PVP... People trying to impose their own views and ideas on others :) -------------------------------- ISS Navy Task Force; Protecting your interest.
Draconia Blackheart Disciples of the Underverse	Posted - 2006.11.07 09:27:00 - [77] Originally by: Caleb Paine Hell, even this forum is PVP... People trying to impose their own views and ideas on others :) Well, it wouldn't be a DISCUSSION forum if it didn't! :D Cipher7's Main Point seems to be either fight with a ship (PvP,WarDec,Can Thieves etc.) or you can't play this game.. My Main Point is it is totally possible to be huge in Eve without the above. And a new corp I see starting up is gonna prove just that..
Caleb Paine ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.07 09:42:00 - [78] Ofcourse, but don't think for a second that if you start mining, producing, trading or claiming your own space to call home you're not PVPing. -------------------------------- ISS Navy Task Force; Protecting your interest.
Wolfways Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.11.07 10:04:00 - [79] Originally by: Caleb Paine Ofcourse, but don't think for a second that if you start mining, producing, trading or claiming your own space to call home you're not PVPing. Its not pvp! lol I don't understand why some people can't grasp this. By your definition i could say that just taking a breath in rl i am pvping because that was air that someone else could have used, therefore the very nature of existence is pvp. Technically that is correct because just by being born you are in competition with every other living thing on the planet to have a better life. Also by your definition, if everything is pvp then pve cannot exist, yet it does. But, that is not what pvp and pve mean in games. I have never heard the term pvp used so liberally. When you say i'm going to go do some pvp do you go mining? Or browse the market? No, you look for another player to attack. Pvp means actual combat against another player. Pve means actual combat against npc's. Everything else (mining, market, etc.) is neither. Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish
Wolfways Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.11.07 10:13:00 - [80] Quote: We are saying, "This is how things work in Eve." And i'm saying you're wrong. What you should be saying is "This is how i think things work in EVE". The only person that can say "This is how things work in EVE" is someone from CCP who is speaking on behalf of the company. You stated that EVE is pure pvp. That statement shows that you are wrong as there are npc's that you fight against in the game, therefore EVE is partly pve. Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish

Caleb Paine ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.07 10:25:00 - [81] Edited by: Caleb Paine on 07/11/2006 10:35:45 That is why EVE is different, EVE gives you very little rules to follow and most of it is player governed, you will be held accountable for your (in)actions, simply because others can influence you very much, and similarly you can influence them as well. Most games will impose rules, like you can't kill anyone unless he's from an enemy faction or you are in duel or BG. There's not many games that have such an intricate playerdriven economy that allows for this much player input as EVE has. If you produce goods and try to sell them to the market at a lower price than your competitor is willing to do you are battling him, that's PVP. If you get fed up with him you can start playing the market, you could start a war with them to 'persuade' them to do business elsewhere or if you have the cash and lack the pilots you could set mercs on them. Life is PVP, EVE comes as close to RL as it can get regarding assets, control, politics, fears, wars and personal gain. Just acdept it as a fact, cause that is what it is. If your ideals, standards or views are different from that, are 'softer' if you will then sure be happy about that and conduct your business as you see fit but it doesn't change the harsh reality. --- edit for content --- I'm not saying people should play the game my/our/PVP way but I'm trying to explain to you how things ARE in EVE, so that you can defend yourself from it, both 'physically' as mentally. If you do business, you 'claimed' a home system and mine there, rat there, produce stuff and start controlling the market you will start to stand out. At some point someone else will take offense to that, they want your share, they want your space, they want your money. They will start various thigns to make this happen. They could simply war dec you, they could set mercs on you, they could inject alts into your corp trying to destroy you from the inside, they could damage your persona towards others. Everything they do will affect yourself, your corp and your friends. If you are not prepared to accept that as a fact then you'll be in for a harsh surprise when this happens to you. Trust me, I know this first hand. The first time someone wardecs you because he can and totally pummels you into the ground, only stopping when you either quit the game or disband the corp you're in for a ig shock, cause there's not many games where they can actually make that happen. Simply because they can destroy assets and deprive you of playing the game, every way possible. EVE is PVP. -------------------------------- ISS Navy Task Force; Protecting your interest.
Draconia Blackheart Disciples of the Underverse	Posted - 2006.11.07 11:08:00 - [82] Edited by: Draconia Blackheart on 07/11/2006 11:09:38 Well, let them think the way they want, Wolf..But don't they expect me to think the way they do.. Human vs Human Combat,Killing Ships and 'Pods': PVP Human vs Computer NPC, In-built Missions: PVE Mining,Manufacturing,Research: INDUSTRY Marketing,Buying,Selling,Trading: ECONOMICS Socailizing,WarDecs,Alliances: POLITICS If the entire world is "PVP"... Well, maybe I should write to leaders of the world and say Stop PVP'ing Maybe contact Microsoft and say stop PVP'ing the market Maybe contact the local steel contractor here and tell not to sell stuff with such PVP This is getting old.. Next...
Guile D'Verde	Posted - 2006.11.07 11:16:00 - [83] Quote: But, that is not what pvp and pve mean in games. I have never heard the term pvp used so liberally. The fact is, it is often used so liberally. I used to play Everquest on a PVE server, and the competition for raid mobs was often admitted to be a form of PVP. Whenever anyone killed a raid mob--this was pre-instancing, you see--it by definition took it away from someone else. Whether you agree with this definition or not is moot; many, including developers in the industry, share such a liberal definition. This is why instancing was developed in MMOs.
Wolfways Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.11.07 11:32:00 - [84] Edited by: Wolfways on 07/11/2006 11:35:39 Originally by: Guile D'Verde Quote: But, that is not what pvp and pve mean in games. I have never heard the term pvp used so liberally. The fact is, it is often used so liberally. I used to play Everquest on a PVE server, and the competition for raid mobs was often admitted to be a form of PVP. Whenever anyone killed a raid mob--this was pre-instancing, you see--it by definition took it away from someone else. Whether you agree with this definition or not is moot; many, including developers in the industry, share such a liberal definition. This is why instancing was developed in MMOs. So if you kill npc's you're removing them, therefore stopping someone else from killing them...so you are pvping? lol, i've never heard that one before, and tbh i've never heard of anyone fighting npc's thinking that they're doing it to stop others doing the same. You kill npc's for the rewards, be it cash or experience, not to stop someone else killing them Edit: As far as i'm aware, instances were created to stop players fun being ruined by griefers who attacked mobs that the original group were fighting so they could get the rewards, or lured mobs onto players to get them killed. This was one of the biggest problem in UO. Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish
Guile D'Verde	Posted - 2006.11.07 11:48:00 - [85] Edited by: Guile D''Verde on 07/11/2006 11:48:49 In Everquest, the killing certain raid targets was the key to progression of raiding guilds. Often times, the raid bosses would drop keys for entry into other, more lucrative zones or possess loot which was required for progression. These mobs would often only spawn once per five to seven days. Thus by the act of a guild killing the target, another guild could not kill said target. It was not uncommon for guilds that didn't really have anymore need for the keys or loot to continue to kill said "gatekeeper" mobs, as it kept rival guild out of the more desirable raid zones. This was done very competitively; keeping the spawns of the raid mobs timed as to better your chances of being there first par of the course. The most obvious PVE equivalent to that in EVE is complex running. There are other, more subtle comparisons that can be made, like others have suggested, choice mining and controlling the market. Any player engaged in commercial activities is engaged in a type of player VS player, as the act of mining a roid denies another player the ability to mine said roid, and any sale made denies another player said sale. While you may never have heard this broad definition of PVP before, it certainly exists, and as I stated previously, is recognized by developers in the industry. This led to the birth of instancing in MMOs; so players felt less or not at all at competition with other players for resources. A game like WoW is one end of the spectrum, where there is almost no player competition, aside from a few outdoor raid targets. EVE is on the far other end of the spectrum. That being said, I do sympathize with part of your argument; I feel like Cypher is probably a bit mistaken to suggest that there is absolutely no PVE in EVE. Being that my primary cash cow is mission running, and I have never, ever seen another player after I hit that deadspace gate, I think some of the scenarios he suggests are a bit outrageous. However, he does have a point: competition for resources is a primary theme and balancing mechanism in EVE Online, and that by definition is a form of PVP. And so is pod-killing.
Wolfways Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:08:00 - [86] Ah thanks Guile, i understand much better now. Still...killing mobs just to stop others from advancing seems like griefing to me. Although i do enjoy pvp (it's all i did in WOW) maybe there is much of a carebear (I hate that word!) in me. I know that people get upset if they lose in pvp, but that is an acceptable risk IMO. But if it came to the point where i was ruining the fun of others by what i consider griefing, just so i could stay ahead then i think i'd quit the game. After all it is a game, and we all play to have fun. Unfortunately many in EVE seem to think that if your fun is being ruined by someone else it's your fault and you should quit. If CCP want EVE to have no place for pve players then their advertizing should state that. Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish
Miya Kurosawa Caldari White Wolves Defence league The OSS	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:23:00 - [87] If that guy happened to wander in .0 that happens to be the territory of an Alliance, more often than not, that guy will get shot down if his standings are not friendly with said Alliance. This security measure is done to prevent and hostiles from getting into their systems. No offense meant really but if you plan to go to .0 do so at your own risk if you are alone. As for the people who pod in more secure space, it's merely to loot or live out their dreams of being a pirate Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam Pinoy ako! =) For you Philippine players out there, join us in the Pinoy channel
Cipher7	Posted - 2006.11.07 12:31:00 - [88] I think the others have said everything I planned to say. Ratting is not pve, it is resource gathering. And yes life is pvp, Eve is just an approximation of life in capitalist space. Why do I enjoy it? Because in a sea of mediocrity, a ruthless game is refreshing. I know I can always jump into WoW and have my carebear candyland where everybody's the hero of the story and they all live happily ever after. Here even the winner doesn't live happily ever after. The winner just prepares for the next fight. The only thing CCP got wrong was the name. They shoulda called it "Evil Online" because that pretty much describes it. I got no dog in this fight, think as you please. C7
Wolfways Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.11.07 13:10:00 - [89] Quote: They shoulda called it "Evil Online" because that pretty much describes it. But thankfully, the majority of players are kinda like...you know....normal Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish
Caleb Paine ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.07 15:16:00 - [90] Edited by: Caleb Paine on 07/11/2006 15:18:06 Originally by: Hamfast In the normal definition of PvX is a Player versus Something else in Combat, PvP is a player fighting a player, if the opponent is computer controlled (not player controlled) it's PvE... you can redefine this to your heart's content, but do not expect folks to blithely accept your redefinition. And since we have a player driven market, player driven demand for resources, minerals, ships and modules... guess what... PVP :) -------------------------------- ISS Navy Task Force; Protecting your interest.

Prone Sultur	Posted - 2006.11.07 16:29:00 - [91] Originally by: Ras Blumin Why not? It's only ammo. Yeah, you can see it from that perspective.
Hamfast Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.07 18:44:00 - [92] Originally by: Caleb Paine Edited by: Caleb Paine on 07/11/2006 15:18:06 Originally by: Hamfast In the normal definition of PvX is a Player versus Something else in Combat, PvP is a player fighting a player, if the opponent is computer controlled (not player controlled) it's PvE... you can redefine this to your heart's content, but do not expect folks to blithely accept your redefinition. And since we have a player driven market, player driven demand for resources, minerals, ships and modules... guess what... PVP :) Player driven market, player driven demand for resources, minerals, ships and modules... are not combat... they are not the classic PvP... Except if you get your new modules, resources and minerals from the remains of another player's shipà In other words, I do not accept your redefinition of terms. Noob in training...
Gobblock Caldari Research Associates	Posted - 2006.11.07 19:48:00 - [93] Originally by: Hamfast Player driven market, player driven demand for resources, minerals, ships and modules... are not combat... they are not the classic PvP... Except if you get your new modules, resources and minerals from the remains of another player's shipà In other words, I do not accept your redefinition of terms. you should play the market sometime. **** of a big trader and you will find every single one of your buy/sell orders undercut. not to mention teh economics of alliance warefare, its isk that fuel them all, and they have have a surprising affect on each other's incomes without firing a single shot
Hamfast Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.07 19:55:00 - [94] Originally by: Gobblock Originally by: Hamfast Player driven market, player driven demand for resources, minerals, ships and modules... are not combat... they are not the classic PvP... Except if you get your new modules, resources and minerals from the remains of another player's shipà In other words, I do not accept your redefinition of terms. you should play the market sometime. ** of a big trader and you will find every single one of your buy/sell orders undercut. not to mention teh economics of alliance warefare, its isk that fuel them all, and they have have a surprising affect on each other's incomes without firing a single shot** No Shots, no Combat, not PvP in the classic sense... I did not say it was not competition, just that it is not Combat, therefore not PvP in the Classic sense. In the New terms this is PPvP - Peaceful PvP. Noob in training...
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2006.11.07 21:15:00 - [95] Like other people have said, it may as well be PvP in EVE because of the competition over resources compared to most other MMORPGs. Whether it's "classic" PvP or not is beside the point, but I'd argue it's classic PvP in the same sense as poker, Monopoly, Railroad Tycoon, or the non-combat aspects of MP Civilization. To put it another way, just because there is a combat option in EVE, doesn't mean all the other stuff suddenly stops being PvP. It might seem like a stretch, but when you realize all the shooty shooty stuff is just as abstract and yet meaningful in terms of consequences as pwning someone on the market, you'll probably come to the conclusion that PvP is the best word for it. Or maybe not. But I think you'd be missing out on a very useful perspective. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2006.11.07 21:30:00 - [96] Oh, and on the original topic: I haven't podded anybody yet--those pesky podzes are hard to catch unless you're set up to get them. Given the opportunity, I definitely wouldn't pod someone newish to the game. If they're around my age or older though, their pod is probably getting ransomed if I can catch it. And if we can't come to an arrangement on the ransom, they're getting popped. To do otherwise would be breaking a promise just as much as shooting somebody who has paid up. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Wolfways Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.11.07 21:47:00 - [97] Why are people arguing over this? When the majority of players that say they don't want to be involved in pvp usually mean actual combat. It doesn't matter what you call it. Call it PvACAAP (Player vs Actual Combat Against Another Player). I'm willing to bet that 99% of people know exactly what people mean by pvp, yet are just arguing about "everything is pvp" because they have no real argument Noone says "I'm going to pvp now", then browses the market, or mines for minerals! If you do...well then you're confused. Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2006.11.07 22:01:00 - [98] Originally by: Wolfways Why are people arguing over this? Words are important to some folks--me included. And they can be useful for changing points of view. I've heard that people do occasionally do that. The reality is that we're not debating the definition of a word, so much as we're challenging each others' perspectives about the ethics of playing this game. And if you're not interested in discussing it, ~~stay in HighSec~~ nobody is forcing you to do so. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Cipher7	Posted - 2006.11.07 22:04:00 - [99] Industrial/Economic/Political capacity has real power, not only Military PVP. They are all commodities that can be traded for each other. Industrial capacity can be used to purchase political clout, money can be used to purchase minerals, minerals can be traded for a mercenary contract, the application of military force can be used to convince someone not to ally with you. In reality nobody's going to come after you for undercutting them. They will simply buy what you sold and flip the price upward for a profit. Or if you price something 1 penny below, they will reprice their goods 1 penny below your price. Then they'll use that profit to go destroy somebody who matters, at which point all pretense of "peaceful pvp" flies right out the window. Part of why we have this cut-throat culture is roleplaying. Darwinism and hypercapitalism are the bread and butter of cyberpunk.
Wolfways Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.11.07 22:42:00 - [100] Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Originally by: Wolfways Why are people arguing over this? Words are important to some folks--me included. And they can be useful for changing points of view. I've heard that people do occasionally do that. The reality is that we're not debating the definition of a word, so much as we're challenging each others' perspectives about the ethics of playing this game. And if you're not interested in discussing it, ~~stay in HighSec~~ nobody is forcing you to do so. Some players are countering the "I don't like pvp" argument with "It's all pvp" when they know that the first point means actual combat. Therefore the second group are not countering anything at all, they are just stating what they consider to be a fact. Therefore they have no argument! Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish

Caleb Paine ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.07 23:13:00 - [101] YOU are discussing symantics... I am discussing a concept. I under stand that "PVP" normally means to go and blow stuff up. However in this game, as a concept, PVP covers much, much more (if not all) parts of the gameplay. -------------------------------- ISS Navy Task Force; Protecting your interest.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2006.11.08 00:06:00 - [102] Originally by: Wolfways Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Originally by: Wolfways Why are people arguing over this? Words are important to some folks--me included. And they can be useful for changing points of view. I've heard that people do occasionally do that. The reality is that we're not debating the definition of a word, so much as we're challenging each others' perspectives about the ethics of playing this game. And if you're not interested in discussing it, ~~stay in HighSec~~ nobody is forcing you to do so. Some players are countering the "I don't like pvp" argument with "It's all pvp" when they know that the first point means actual combat. Therefore the second group are not countering anything at all, they are just stating what they consider to be a fact. Therefore they have no argument! Ok... /me backs away from Wolfways EVE motto of the day: "Semantics is PvP" /me goes off to make an alt named Gnome Chomsky * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Wolfways Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.11.08 00:42:00 - [103] Originally by: Caleb Paine YOU are discussing symantics... I am discussing a concept. I under stand that "PVP" normally means to go and blow stuff up. However in this game, as a concept, PVP covers much, much more (if not all) parts of the gameplay. How is EVE different from other games? Take WoW or UO for example. Players use equipment gained in pve by killing npc's, and use them in pvp, or sell them on the market. EVE is the same. Players in this thread are discussing semantics. They are discussing what pvp actually means, when i believe that the majority, or at least those who have played MMO's for any amount of time, know that when someone says pvp they usually mean actual combat with another player. Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish
Crewman Jenkins	Posted - 2006.11.08 00:44:00 - [104] Entertaining debate
Cipher7	Posted - 2006.11.08 00:59:00 - [105] Ultimately everything you do in WoW is meaningless because you can't affect anybody or anything.
Athena Starfire Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.08 08:44:00 - [106] Yes this is getting a bit ridiculous.. Everyone know PVP means direct combat against human players (A shoot'em up) not some market strategy And podding is evil...
Wolfways Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.11.08 16:22:00 - [107] Originally by: Athena Starfire Yes this is getting a bit ridiculous.. Everyone know PVP means direct combat against human players (A shoot'em up) not some market strategy And podding is evil... I wouldn't say podding is evil. It depends on the situation really. If you pod someone for no other reason than you can, well then yes...that's just being nasty. Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2006.11.08 17:27:00 - [108] Originally by: Athena Starfire Yes this is getting a bit ridiculous.. Everyone know PVP means direct combat against human players (A shoot'em up) not some market strategy Sorry, no. I don't know that. Think of it this way: what you're saying is that PvP can't exist except in games with combat. So chess is out? Any abstract game is out? Money games like Monopoly are out? What are they then exactly? Player vs. ...what? How about war games? Is Risk too abstract? How about Starcraft? How about war games with economic strategies? Is it PvP when you destroy a town, but not when you make everything that comes from that town worthless? When you advance your troops its PvP, but not when you advance your technological advantage? I can understand the skepticism if you're coming from games where the only meaningful confrontation between players exists in killing each other...shooters, dueling games, etc. But in economics and politics, EVE breaks those barriers. It's probably the game's single biggest claim to fame. Again, I think PvP is a much more useful concept applied broadly rather than just to blood, guts, and ectoplasm. YMMV, I guess. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Wolfways Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.11.08 18:05:00 - [109] Edited by: Wolfways on 08/11/2006 18:06:55 This thread is getting really stupid now. I have never heard the terms pvp, pve, pvm, pvr, rvr, etc before the introduction of MMO's. Chess has NEVER been called a pvp game! Why people think EVE is different from other MMO's (other than being on one server) is beyond me. Other MMO's have mining, combat, markets, npc's... WoW has pvp areas (battlegrounds) and servers. UO has pvp shards. EVE just has pvp everywhere, to a degree. Actually in UO guilds can pvp on pve servers so it's the same as EVE. EVE is actually the closest thing to UO i have ever seen. HI-sec = Tram, low-sec = Fel. As far as i'm concerned, and everyone i've ever known, pvp means actual combat (i.e. shooty, stabby, punchy) against one or more other players. ...and has nothing to do with the OP either. Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish
Hamfast Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.08 19:50:00 - [110] Originally by: Wolfways Edited by: Wolfways on 08/11/2006 18:06:55 This thread is getting really stupid now. While I tend to agree, stupid is not always bad... (And I like the Duane Stevenson quote by the way) People think Eve is different because they still like it and are (in some cases) disillusioned with the others... We have issues when we are told that what we think of as unique is just like everything else... more so if that unique item is ourselves (in some form)... And yes, you are unique, just like everyone else... I wanted to agree with another point... Poker can be PvP... Just watch those Old Westerns when someone cheats... but it has never been called PvP... until now. For those that seem to want to broaden the definition of PvP, please understand that it waters down your ability... While your ability with your Raven may be second to none, your inability to bluff when your cards are crap makes you less of a PvPer... that you are unable to make that 3 bank shot means you are weaker in the PvP world... then again, perhaps you are trying to get back at the folks that are better at killing your ship then you are at killing theirsà they may be able to Crush and pod you in game, but put a pool stick in their hand and you will pawn themà Noob in training...

Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2006.11.08 21:02:00 - [111] Edited by: Tsanse Kinske on 08/11/2006 21:05:32 Originally by: Hamfast People think Eve is different because they still like it and are (in some cases) disillusioned with the others... We have issues when we are told that what we think of as unique is just like everything else... more so if that unique item is ourselves (in some form)... And yes, you are unique, just like everyone else... I don't really think of EVE as being so different than other games in that sense. What it is a lot different from in some basic ways are PvE oriented MMOs. Not that it has nothing in common with them either. Really I think of EVE as a sort of throwback to the main lineage of competitive games in human history, pretty much from backgammon on until the last few decades. Note that in all these games, you're given a structure. And within that structure, you use any means you like to defeat your opponent. (Or team up with other players to defeat your opponents.) PvE is the recent innovation in comparison, not PvP, even if the terms themselves are relatively new. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Magus Blacklaw Gallente Vector Industries Unlimited	Posted - 2006.11.08 22:02:00 - [112] One could say the game is PvE and all the PvP stuff is there to help PvE. Afterall, if you guys stoped fighting, we wouldn't be able to keep selling you ships. :) Your fighting exists to help us make money. It's all PvE. :)
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2006.11.08 22:11:00 - [113] Originally by: Magus Blacklaw One could say the game is PvE and all the PvP stuff is there to help PvE. Afterall, if you guys stoped fighting, we wouldn't be able to keep selling you ships. :) Your fighting exists to help us make money. It's all PvE. :) That would only work if you were selling most of your stuff to NPCs. Although I guess that leads to other questions...How do we know somebody isn't an NPC? Maybe everybody else is an NPC? * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Hamfast Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.08 22:57:00 - [114] Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Edited by: Tsanse Kinske on 08/11/2006 21:05:32 Really I think of EVE as a sort of throwback to the main lineage of competitive games in human history, pretty much from backgammon on until the last few decades. Note that in all these games, you're given a structure. And within that structure, you use any means you like to defeat your opponent. (Or team up with other players to defeat your opponents.) PvE is the recent innovation in comparison, not PvP, even if the terms themselves are relatively new. PvE and PvP are both new terms for old concepts... neither are all that recent... You use Backgammon as an example of a PvP game, you are competing against another person and (given the chance) bump them (Combat) to the bar... a fine example!!! Solitaire on the other hand is more PvE... as there is no real opponent... But where in this would Blackjack fall? How about Roulette? Those who say PvP would be wrong, because players are not playing against each other, they are playing against the house... and the house represents the environment. I am guessing there have been games throughout time that have been either Adversarial (PvP) , Non-Adversarial (cooperative, like catch) and communal (PvE)à what those games were is for the historians to tell us. Noob in training...
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2006.11.08 23:09:00 - [115] Originally by: Hamfast Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Edited by: Tsanse Kinske on 08/11/2006 21:05:32 Really I think of EVE as a sort of throwback to the main lineage of competitive games in human history, pretty much from backgammon on until the last few decades. Note that in all these games, you're given a structure. And within that structure, you use any means you like to defeat your opponent. (Or team up with other players to defeat your opponents.) PvE is the recent innovation in comparison, not PvP, even if the terms themselves are relatively new. PvE and PvP are both new terms for old concepts... neither are all that recent... You use Backgammon as an example of a PvP game, you are competing against another person and (given the chance) bump them (Combat) to the bar... a fine example!!! Solitaire on the other hand is more PvE... as there is no real opponent... But where in this would Blackjack fall? How about Roulette? Those who say PvP would be wrong, because players are not playing against each other, they are playing against the house... and the house represents the environment. Ooo, interesting points. :) Though as to solitaire, I did specify competitive games. But I hadn't thought about blackjack and the like--I basically agree with you that the house is very like the 'E' in PvE in that case. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
JgGravy	Posted - 2006.11.09 00:59:00 - [116] Originally by: Hamfast Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Edited by: Tsanse Kinske on 08/11/2006 21:05:32 Really I think of EVE as a sort of throwback to the main lineage of competitive games in human history, pretty much from backgammon on until the last few decades. Note that in all these games, you're given a structure. And within that structure, you use any means you like to defeat your opponent. (Or team up with other players to defeat your opponents.) PvE is the recent innovation in comparison, not PvP, even if the terms themselves are relatively new. PvE and PvP are both new terms for old concepts... neither are all that recent... You use Backgammon as an example of a PvP game, you are competing against another person and (given the chance) bump them (Combat) to the bar... a fine example!!! Solitaire on the other hand is more PvE... as there is no real opponent... But where in this would Blackjack fall? How about Roulette? Those who say PvP would be wrong, because players are not playing against each other, they are playing against the house... and the house represents the environment. I am guessing there have been games throughout time that have been either Adversarial (PvP) , Non-Adversarial (cooperative, like catch) and communal (PvE)à what those games were is for the historians to tell us. So now we are talking PVH? When i first started reading this, i wanted to b!tch slap a few people and hope everyone got the point. After reading more into it, both sides are being too set in there ways. In RL there's no "PVP" so to say, unless you bring a sword or a gun to work. It's competition, business. Same as the market is on EVE, not PVP it's business. Same as when i go hunting deer, it's not PVE, it's just hunting. PVP in almost all cases is known as Player vs Player, and at work, you don't play, you work. It's called that for a reason. That's why in games it's called PvP, we are PLAYING!!! See where this thing called the english language comes in handy? PvE can mean several things, Player vs. Enviroment, Player vs Enemy and more. So, the terms PvP and PvE are used in games, and unless you live your life as a game you shouldn't talk that way. If you do this... You need physical help. I'm serious.
Athena Starfire Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.09 01:05:00 - [117] YOU ARE ALL WRONG!
JgGravy	Posted - 2006.11.09 01:11:00 - [118] In a way i agree with you, we all have opinions. Just some of them go too far.
Wolfways Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.11.09 01:37:00 - [119] Quote: (And I like the Duane Stevenson quote by the way) Who? Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2006.11.09 02:24:00 - [120] Originally by: JgGravy Originally by: Hamfast In RL there's no "PVP" so to say, unless you bring a sword or a gun to work. It's competition, business. Same as the market is on EVE, not PVP it's business. Same as when i go hunting deer, it's not PVE, it's just hunting. PVP in almost all cases is known as Player vs Player, and at work, you don't play, you work. It's called that for a reason. That's why in games it's called PvP, we are PLAYING!!! See where this thing called the english language comes in handy? I guess me English ain't so good. Maybe it me second language and I don't know it. So explain to us slowly...you're saying that when you're ~~playing~~ I mean, uh, using the market in EVE you're not actually playing? You're, hmm, working, I guess? Is this a volunteer job or does CCP pay you for this...and where can I sign up?!!111 Quote: PvE can mean several things, Player vs. Enviroment, Player vs Enemy and more. So, the terms PvP and PvE are used in games, and unless you live your life as a game you shouldn't talk that way. If you do this... You need physical help. I'm serious. Mental, I think you mean. Oops, no, that must be my bad English acting up again. Anyway, who is making a big deal about RL? Or are you trying to say that RL games are more RL than RL computer games? Honestly I don't even know what point you're trying to make. At least the people arguing that a lot of EVE isn't PvP are making some sense, even if I disagree with them. This thread is now just getting weird. Fun, but weird. Oh well, back to chopping up orcs at work for me. Have fun kids! * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE

JgGravy	Posted - 2006.11.09 03:13:00 - [121] Don't forget to sharpen your axe!!! I think what i'm trying to say in a nut shell, you need to unplug.
Athena Starfire Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.09 07:19:00 - [122] Originally by: JgGravy In a way i agree with you, we all have opinions. Just some of them go too far. Opinions are like NAVELS, everyone has one... (PG-13 version)
Sebastian Valance Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.09 11:26:00 - [123] why pod kill you ask? squishy sound? irrelevant for me cause I can? irrelevant for me cause it destroys implants and keeps prices high? why would I want to do that? irrelevant for me so... If I am gonna podkill, it will be for one of two reasons: 1.) revenge 2.) vengence for the Crew of your enemie's ship that was carelessly killed due to your enemie's incompetance....I mean SOMEBODY needs to avenge their death, right? This is my new MAIN; give me a few days and I will get a Corp going...
Detavi Kade	Posted - 2006.11.09 14:48:00 - [124] We're still going on about this? For those who can't accept that the market, as well as everything else in EVE, is PVP, then fine! Only ship based combat is PVP then. Nevertheless, the reasons to pod someone are still there, regardless of whether you want to discuss what exactly PVP means. Destroy implants, destroy clones. Cause economic loss on the victim's part. Remove them from local. Squishy sound, etc. The reasons are still there, regardless of whether you call it PVP or not. Sheesh!
Himo Amasacia Minmatar Elite United Corp Antigo Dominion	Posted - 2006.11.09 15:07:00 - [125] Edited by: Himo Amasacia on 09/11/2006 15:07:36 Well I Dont know if anyone else has mentioned this, but Killmails can be faked, lossmails can be not posted, but a corpse is utter evidence of a kill. I remember I annoyed someone on a recruitment drive on the recruinment thread by offering to sell her her corpse back. She replied by offering to give me "10 EECC corpses" and then asking who I was again. Of course, even though she didn't remember me, she still could remember my corp sticker. RIIIIIIIIIGHT! If the mods had not banned other posting in recruitment threads I might have pointed that out. Oh well I still have it :)
Hamfast Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.09 17:20:00 - [126] Originally by: Wolfways Quote: (And I like the Duane Stevenson quote by the way) Who? Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish It was said by Duane Stevenson in the movie "Dave" played by Ving Rames. Noob in training...
Athena Starfire Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.09 23:06:00 - [127] Originally by: Detavi Kade We're still going on about this? For those who can't accept that the market, as well as everything else in EVE, is PVP, then fine! Only ship based combat is PVP then. Nevertheless, the reasons to pod someone are still there, regardless of whether you want to discuss what exactly PVP means. Destroy implants, destroy clones. Cause economic loss on the victim's part. Remove them from local. Squishy sound, etc. The reasons are still there, regardless of whether you call it PVP or not. Sheesh! I Disagree
JgGravy	Posted - 2006.11.10 00:46:00 - [128] Heck, i'm all for pod killing, i havn't had this happen yet but i thin i'll go ask for(yes, you heard it) someone to pod me in an 0.0 space. Just so i know how it works. I've only been playing about 20 days, and i'm still getting use to the game. Lost several ships, but so far i'm still on the original me!! I think that in most cases, the people pod killing probably arn't profiting too much from the implats the person buys. Infact, i'd be willing to be less then half do. I think it's done just to shut someone up in the system, or the person doing the pod killin gets a joy out of it. In other games i took much fun in fighting, and in most cases killing another person. Pod killing is kine of like staying in and finishing the job. Kind of like we didn't do in Vietnam.


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