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Motivated Prophet
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Posted - 2006.11.04 17:06:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Dark Shikari
What is the profit split?
I.e. %s for Growth/Dividend/Salary.
Current plans are 5% salary, 95% dividend. If initial capital is insufficent to stock stations adequately, I will put forth a vote to shareholders asking to retain profits for a number of months until capital is adequate; I do not, however, forsee this being necessary.
If you have a better plan, I'm very much interested in hearing that; that's the reason share sales don't begin until Monday.
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Caroglac
Amarr
The Arrow Project
The ARR0W Project
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Posted - 2006.11.04 21:45:00 -
[32]
can omber zombie and or emfi manager post on this thread varifying that this guys mains are who he claims?
I am always looking for a good place to invest and if this guy is legit, the idea seems profitable to me.
Cap Ship Sales |
Marodi Julita
Sublime Investment Fund
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Posted - 2006.11.04 21:48:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Marodi Julita on 04/11/2006 21:48:55
Originally by: Caroglac
can omber zombie and or emfi manager post on this thread varifying that this guys mains are who he claims?
Originally by: Omber Zombie
got the mail and have a list of his mains
Edit: I'm interested in 70 mil worth of shares.
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Shin Ra
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2006.11.04 21:54:00 -
[34]
Obviously the usual "don't invest what you can't afford to burn" applied. Seems way more reliable than all the other attempted IPOs lately. I would say its unlikely this is a scam, but still possible.
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Motivated Prophet
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Posted - 2006.11.05 04:57:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Shin Ra
Obviously the usual "don't invest what you can't afford to burn" applied. Seems way more reliable than all the other attempted IPOs lately. I would say its unlikely this is a scam, but still possible.
I appreciate your confidence; I know it's not a cheap commodity by any means. I am certainly striving to make this a very reliable investment vehicle both in terms of profit and in terms of exposure to risk.
I almost feel bad moving your post off the bottom, but... bump! lol
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Lightof God
Caldari
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
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Posted - 2006.11.05 06:07:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Lightof God on 05/11/2006 06:08:32
ok lets see here
ill take a bite
250,000 shares please
before i invest i would like to talk to you and either oz and ds for a bit.
will give iskies after that point to you if i am perfectly convinced
email pls?
for spelling
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Omber Zombie
Gallente
Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2006.11.05 07:04:00 -
[37]
why do you want to talk to me? I just got a mail saying who his mains were...
As it was with Stingy, if this becomes a scam, that info will be released to the public.
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[FTEK] Pwning Eve Carebear Style |
Shin Ra
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2006.11.05 07:56:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Omber Zombie
why do you want to talk to me? I just got a mail saying who his mains were...
As it was with Stingy, if this becomes a scam, that info will be released to the public.
Which should not be take as proof this is legit, everyone has to make their own mind up about this. For example, if I was the main character here, do you really think I would care if a bunch of people decided they didn't like me cause I scammed them? This is just one element of what is necessary to gain trust and reputation.
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EFS Manager
Eve Financial Services
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Posted - 2006.11.05 11:47:00 -
[39]
Edited by: EFS Manager on 05/11/2006 11:55:43
Originally by: Proton Power
Due to his main having some alliances / corps not liking his main's corp / alliance I advise its best to not let the entire Eve Population know there names. I gave him another idea so that it solves the (They could be my alts issue).
Many of us have mains in alliances etc, but still release their names as an act of good faith. You are offering no securety from what I can see so it is more a case of being untrustworthy until you have proven otherwise.
If you want people to trust you with their Isk, I suggest you trust them with at lest who you are ingame (telling third parties is not really a valid solution as people may not trust your mains and therefore would choose not to trust this IPO).
You state in your PDF file that:
"...Sufficient shares will be floated such that, even should Proton Power be unable to step in, a vote for a replacement CEO could still be held amongst all shareholders to either continue the business or to liquidate its assets in the case of my untimely demise."
That does not actually provide a solution withing the game mechanics. The CEO can kick anyone he likes out of the corp without a vote (including directors), and the only people that can call for a vote to take over from the CEO are directors in the corp the last time I looked.
This means that the CEO (who is not disclosing himself to the investors) could very easily just run off with all the Isk and there is really nothing that anyone can do to prevent that. The only thing it does solve is what to do if you happen to die or leave the game suddenly. I suggest you rethink your structure.
Also show some sort of market research to justify the amounts you are trying to raise being fully utilised, or you run a very real risk of ending up like BMBE where capital was "needed" and now sits completely dormant.
Sincerely,
EFS Manager
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Apple Blossom
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Posted - 2006.11.05 12:52:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Motivated Prophet
I appreciate your confidence; I know it's not a cheap commodity by any means. I am certainly striving to make this a very reliable investment vehicle both in terms of profit and in terms of exposure to risk.
As it stands there are a couple of issues that would need to be addressed before I would consider investing:
1. The carrier pilot. You say your courier is prepared to put up 6B collateral for a 7M payday. I can't believe there are many people with 6B+ liquid isk who are interested in 7M isk courier jobs. I can only assume your courier is a close personal friend/corpmate (or alt) who is doing this as a favor. If that's the case then say so, otherwise I'm suspicious about this part of the proposal.
2. Your intial request for capital is too high, and you seem to have no experience in this market. Why do you need 12B straightaway? Get 1B first (you have 500M from Proton already) and do a few test runs. See what sells well and what doesn't. Then come back with plans for expansion. I'd be far more willing to invest in someone who has some experience in the market and a track record doing this kind of trade, rather than someone who's market research is 'anecdotal'.
3. Releasing your main. As you yourself have said, there really is very little risk in jumping a carrier. You can jump it into docking range and you're safe. So I'm still not entirely clear why you cannot reveal your main. You're afraid other alliances/pirates will somehow bring down your (or your corpmate's) carrier? How? Full disclosure gives investors a lot more confidence.
Anyway, I wish you luck with your IPO and business. I may still invest depending on how this thread develops.
Apple Blossom
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Researching Princess
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Posted - 2006.11.05 13:16:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Apple Blossom
1. The carrier pilot. You say your courier is prepared to put up 6B collateral for a 7M payday. I can't believe there are many people with 6B+ liquid isk who are interested in 7M isk courier jobs. I can only assume your courier is a close personal friend/corpmate (or alt) who is doing this as a favor. If that's the case then say so, otherwise I'm suspicious about this part of the proposal.
My problem stems off this a little too. As the 6b is just the collateral that the carrier pilot is putting down, for the 7 million isk job. The carrier pilot would also need to factor the value of his ship (in the face of destruction) into his calculations.
I am unaware on the cost of a carrier, I will base pricing off say 1 billion isk, for ease of maths.
This means, that for every 1 billion isk collateral that the pilot has placed, he is doing it for 1 million isk. Why would anyone, with that kind of skills, and cash available, do this for such a piddly price? There has to be something else the carrier pilot has in mind. Be it, bringing fuel up from empire for his alliance at the same time, filling his hold with t1 and t2 items to resell in 0.0, or moving trit in and moving zyd/mega/nocx out, etc.
If something along these lines was brought to air, that yours is not the main delivery of the pilot, then I think it would be understandable. Why wouldnt that carrier pilot just spend that 6 billion isk buying 10 of each of the tier 2 battleships, and 5 of each of the tier 1's, and move them out? Purchase price = 88m, sale price = 118m per ship. Using the above analogy the profit on one trip (assuming full sales) would be 1.5 billion isk
So, he has the choice of making 1.5 billion off a 7 billion isk investment (6b collateral+1b ship value), (25% ROI)
or
Making 7 million isk off a 7 billion isk investment (0.1% ROI)
I think this may be part of the reason a few people are wary of this, just that there are a few too many unknowns.
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Motivated Prophet
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Posted - 2006.11.05 15:00:00 -
[42]
With regards to not trusting my mains: A fair point. It is my opinion, however, that if your required level of trust exceeds that which can be garnered from reading a well-thought-out business plan and an endorsement from one of the best-rated IPO's out there right now, you need to rethink the amount of money you were looking to invest. Investors of more than 200,000 shares get an alt in the corporation; the only corporation mail right now lists my home phone number. Not my alt's home phone number. 
It is unfortunate that the corporation system works that way (though I could give people a meaningless role so that you'd at least have 24 hours notice, for whatever good that would do you). However, the "hit-by-a-bus" plan is for just that; it is not intended to protect you from a scam. As with all things in Eve and elsewhere, caveat emptor; I know of no game mechanics to protect you from that.
As for the level of capital I am requesting--if anything, I am worried it may be too little. Proton tells me stories of much greater investments in even a single outpost! But, given my current plans of what to supply, 6b per outpost/station allows me to supply all needed skills and a touch of t2 gear to fill out the rest. This is, after all, a skills-selling corporation, not a t2-selling one.
That said, if capital is oversupplied, it's a simple matter to put up a vote--expand to proportionately more stations, or return unused capital? In the latter case, as it seems the Market Discussions forum is obsessed with ROI as a percentage of original investment, this will allow me to keep returns high by effectively modifying the price of shares retroactively.
The carrier pilot has a pre-existing business moving very small, very-high-value items. This is just icing on the cake for him; his fuel costs are already sunk, so he gets the full 17.5 mil as profit, and he effectively earns 0.3% interest on his investment of 6 billion over the course of about 2 minutes. I don't have the tools handy to convert that to an APY, but I'd bet it's impressive.
I can pick up a billion isk in capital skills alone; a billion isk is flatly insufficient to accomplish the goals of this business, and places a proportionately higher load from the 17.5 million fee on profits from that small subset of skills I'd be able to supply. As I've said elsewhere, my product is especially liquid and rarely, if ever, subject to price changes; if something doesn't sell, I can move it back up to Empire, sell it at 1 isk below the NPC's, and either return the isk to shareholders or invest it into other skills and equipment.
As far as releasing my main--I live in sufficiently-deep 0.0 that it takes more than one carrier jump to hit a safe system. In the event that I have to do a delivery, that means potentially jumping my carrier into open space in 0.0; I'd rather potential enemies not have the time and date for the next delivery handy as a tool for being in the right place at the right time. Nonetheless, you make a good point. Give me approximately 30 minutes to think of a good solution.
@RP:
Just a quick note that there's no way to shove a battleship into a carrier; ships in the bay need to be assembled, and it's hard to fit a 1 mil+ m3 battleship into 500k m3. However, your other points are valid, and are discussed above.
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Motivated Prophet
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Posted - 2006.11.05 15:20:00 -
[43]
Okay, I have come up with a solution for revealing my main. If a portion of the corporation's assets are directed towards buying a carrier into which I can clonejump to run deliveries, that solves the problem. Carriers (with a capital repper and some t2 drones, no fighters) cost about a billion isk; this would reduce ROI by approximately one absolute percentage point. Barring significant outcry to the contrary, I will release the name of my main at the start of share sales in approximately 7 hours.
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Proton Power
Amarr
Power Corrupts Trading Inc
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Posted - 2006.11.05 15:33:00 -
[44]
My suggestion for this is simple. Seems more people are worried about the carrier pilot. I know your main can fly a carrier pilot. You should take 2bil of the 12bil and invest that into fuels / carrier designed for travel and max capacity (Mark V's with 27% expanders and such and do the runs yourself. Even if later on the project dosnt go well, carriers are not hard to liquadate.
This is my thoughts on the matter.
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Keep the Game Rolling. |
Proton Power
Amarr
Power Corrupts Trading Inc
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Posted - 2006.11.05 15:36:00 -
[45]
Also by doing it yourself helps 2 things.
1. You are not paying for the delivery (saves some isk)
2. YOu can make sure you only jump the carrier when safe, you wont have to deal with well maybe I can get through those 12 hostiles or pirates in the system.
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Keep the Game Rolling. |
Kanoro
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Posted - 2006.11.05 16:51:00 -
[46]
I'll take 20000 shares.
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R'Onin
Amarr
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2006.11.05 19:10:00 -
[47]
Has a new investor in eve I'm going to try this out.
Save me 50k in shares if it's possible.
Cheers
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Motivated Prophet
Zerodot Schools
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Posted - 2006.11.05 19:37:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Kanoro
I'll take 20000 shares.
Minimum direct purchase is 25,000 shares. Shall I write you down for that?
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Calladen Nimitz
Caldari
Sovereign Labs
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Posted - 2006.11.05 20:32:00 -
[49]
Please reserve 50,000 shares for me at $1000 isk each (50m investment). I trust Proton Power and his involvement in this enterprise is enough to satisfy any questions I may have.
Calladen Nimitz
SOVEREIGN ENTERPRISES WEBPAGE AND FORUMS |
Kasia Pelarar
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Posted - 2006.11.05 21:19:00 -
[50]
Please reserve me 25000 shares.
Thanks.
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Apple Blossom
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Posted - 2006.11.05 22:54:00 -
[51]
Thank you for your replies.
Originally by: Motivated Prophet
The carrier pilot has a pre-existing business moving very small, very-high-value items. This is just icing on the cake for him; his fuel costs are already sunk, so he gets the full 17.5 mil as profit, and he effectively earns 0.3% interest on his investment of 6 billion over the course of about 2 minutes. I don't have the tools handy to convert that to an APY, but I'd bet it's impressive.
OK. This starts to make sense.
Originally by: Motivated Prophet
I can pick up a billion isk in capital skills alone; a billion isk is flatly insufficient to accomplish the goals of this business, and places a proportionately higher load from the 17.5 million fee on profits from that small subset of skills I'd be able to supply.
I realise that 1B would be insufficient for your full venture. My point was that attempting a small-scale test run might be a prudent first step if you've not attempted this kind of trade before. Perhaps this is not a problem with Proton to advise.
Originally by: Motivated Prophet
As far as releasing my main--I live in sufficiently-deep 0.0 that it takes more than one carrier jump to hit a safe system. In the event that I have to do a delivery, that means potentially jumping my carrier into open space in 0.0; I'd rather potential enemies not have the time and date for the next delivery handy as a tool for being in the right place at the right time. Nonetheless, you make a good point. Give me approximately 30 minutes to think of a good solution.
I don't see why potential enemies would know the time and date of your deliveries if you only release your identity. The delivery runs don't need to be on any particular schedule do they?
Once again thank you for taking the time to reply and best of luck. 
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Motivated Prophet
Zerodot Schools
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Posted - 2006.11.05 23:12:00 -
[52]
As it currently stands, 1,400 shares have been reserved. Barring additional reservations in this thread or my thread on the WTS forum, all of the remaining shares will become available on a first-come, first-served basis in the "Zerodot" in-game channel in approximately one hour, at 00:00 Eve time. Please read the channel MOTD for instructions. You may continue to post reservations of shares in this channel (and I'll thank you for the free bumps!).
If you have reserved shares, you may join that channel, send isk accompanied by an Evemail and I will transfer your shares when next I am online, or convo me when I am online. If I do not hear from you, reservations expire one week after they were posted.
Thanks for your interest in Zerodot!
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Motivated Prophet
Zerodot Schools
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Posted - 2006.11.05 23:16:00 -
[53]
Gah, I forgot! And I previewed it twice, too!
Shareholders will be Evemailed the name of my main, and are asked to hold it in confidence.
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Empress Aphrodite
Soar Angelic
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2006.11.05 23:57:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Motivated Prophet
The carrier pilot has a pre-existing business moving very small, very-high-value items. This is just icing on the cake for him; his fuel costs are already sunk, so he gets the full 17.5 mil as profit, and he effectively earns 0.3% interest on his investment of 6 billion over the course of about 2 minutes. I don't have the tools handy to convert that to an APY, but I'd bet it's impressive.
How often is he currently moving these items though? How will this compare to the number of moves he'd be making under this new proposal?
Let's face it, this 17.5m isn't earned every 2 minutes. Maybe once a week? Plus, now he must give 6b in collateral?
In a hypothetical zero risk venture, a return of 17.5m - even every day - on an investment of 6b would be a pretty crappy "icing on the cake".
If I win your auction, please Convo me before escrowing so I can claim straight away. Thanks!
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Researching Princess
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Posted - 2006.11.06 01:53:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Motivated Prophet
Gah, I forgot! And I previewed it twice, too!
Shareholders will be Evemailed the name of my main, and are asked to hold it in confidence.
Excellent idea, just one small pointer though. You have advised that you have told a few different people the name of your main/s. Has this actually been verified by the main itself? I would strongly recommend you actually send the evemail from your main for verification purposes. If not, you could say Oveur was your main, and we would be none the wiser. You may have already been doing this, but over the 2 pages your thread has looked like it is just you sending an evemail from Prophet, giving an unverified name.
Thanks for answering all of my questions as well, it has definetly cleared a few things up, especially regarding the carrier pilot's intentions etc.
I personally believe it would be unwise to reveal your main character under any circumstances other than ie having shareholders with over ie 50,000 shares have this information available to them.
It is definetly a risk to advertise him, as the next time he is in space and in a carrier, all focused fire will be on him, as the enemy will believe he holds billions of isk worth of cargo.
Had something else to say, but forgot it, will add when I remember. Great work answering the questions from the concentration camp thus so far. Your composure and consistency definetly helps to credit your operation
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Motivated Prophet
Zerodot Schools
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Posted - 2006.11.06 07:02:00 -
[56]
Thank you for your kind words, Ms. Princess.
The EVEMail that goes out comes from me, MP, mostly due to not wanting to have to click more things than I already do in order to transfer shares about and keep proper records, and because it's "cleaner" to have only one toon handling the corp interactions. However, I would certainly be happy to send EVEMails, convos, etc., from my main to any shareholder who needs that extra touch of verification.
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Obijameskenobi
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Posted - 2006.11.06 15:37:00 -
[57]
Put me down for 50k of shares at 1k isk / share.
Evemail me ingame to confirm.
Cheers
Obi
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BhurakStarkiller
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Posted - 2006.11.07 03:22:00 -
[58]
Reserve 50m in shares, please
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Motivated Prophet
Zerodot Schools
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Posted - 2006.11.07 07:49:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Motivated Prophet on 07/11/2006 07:50:02
IPO Status update:
Corp cash on hand: 1,209,830,250.00 isk
CEO wallet petty cash on hand: 10,000.00 isk
Shares on hand: 10,788,526
Shares reserved: 1,520,000
Shares available (not reserved): 9,268,526
Total capitalization at par value: 11,998,366,250 isk
(the funny bits are corp registration fee @ just under 1.6m and the occasional CSPA fee)
We are well under way; over 20% of available shares have been bought or reserved. If you don't find me online, just read the instructions in the Zerodot channel, or ask an existing shareholder to contact me through my main.
I look forward to getting the enterprise underway soon!
Immediate edit: changed "nearly 20%" to "over 20%" Go go gadget math!
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Braendig
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Posted - 2006.11.07 21:04:00 -
[60]
Please reserve 250k shares for me.
Thank you.
ISK to be transferred when I get home from work late tonight.
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