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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 11 post(s)
Darcie Wray	Posted - 2006.11.05 14:32:00 - [91] Edited by: Darcie Wray on 05/11/2006 14:34:53 Please please listen. Please listen. Everyone saying the T2 BPO Lottery is good etc etc because "If you cant afford a 500m Hulk then dont buy it!" is missing the point. The POINT is that NO ONEshould be given an item worth 70billion isk+ just for getting a research agent (takes next to no effort) and then the game mechanics creating luck and granting it to them. If Hulks were an NPC sold item and the price was 500m people would complain, but no one would be totally outraged. What really really makes people mad is that some stupid mindless nobody did next to nothing and got something that makes him the ultra supreme uber EVE player, who is able to buy a 60m SP character and a mothership with just a few months of EASY EASY profit from his lucky BPO that CCP handed to him almost for free in the form of the JOKE that is the T2 BPO lottery. I dont give a rats *** about your "Real world economy cant afford it dont buy it" nonsense. This is a game and games are supposed to be fair and make sense.
Epidemis	Posted - 2006.11.05 14:46:00 - [92] Originally by: ObiDoom Kenobi Originally by: BPO HATTER Few probs with that. Its called public out cry, and the news media would run wild with it, some politican would do the right thing and either make a motion to remove the patent or just allow anyone to do it cause it saves lives. Also, releasing more t2 bpos into the current lottery would work as well, would have to quiet a bit more, but it would work none the less. Fine, then I suggest the Devs make you this offer. Once CNN does a story about the global public outcry for reduced T2 prices they implement a new system. And, I suppose some politician could do the "right thing" and make sure that nobody ever invents a cure to anything. Ever. Fortunately, the chances of someone being that irresponsible and that stupid are fairly low. (Although quite frankly not as low as one might like). 1) Medical patents only last 5 years 2) You do not need to make it unaffordable to make it profitable. Lowering the price while still giving a nice margin would be more than enough incentive.
DefJam101 Gallente Praxiteles Inc. E N I G M A	Posted - 2006.11.05 14:59:00 - [93] Originally by: Sonos SAGD I have a question for all the t2 bpo haters I do not have any that i personally own and i speak for myself not for my corp or alliance If you some how won a t2 hulk would you sell it for a "reasonable" price, or would you sell it at current market value? i doublt you you sell them at 200 mil lets say when people are buying them at 500 If I WON the BPO. Yes, hell yeah I would. Doing the right thing and getting a good rep for it is worth a lot more than ISK to me. Problem is you can't win it unless you get lucky, and all the current BPO holders are self obsessed carebears who never worry about ISK anymore. Problem is if I buy it I don't have a choice, since the cost of the BPOs are based on current market value, not the fair price. And even if I did sell at market value it would take a long time to make back the BPO cost. So the only way to make a profit is to win the BPO. That's a pretty big problem if you ask me. ***
BPO HATTER	Posted - 2006.11.05 16:19:00 - [94] Originally by: Sonos SAGD I have a question for all the t2 bpo haters I do not have any that i personally own and i speak for myself not for my corp or alliance If you some how won a t2 hulk would you sell it for a "reasonable" price, or would you sell it at current market value? i doublt you you sell them at 200 mil lets say when people are buying them at 500 Heres what I would do. Sell em at 200m a pop in a market far off the trade routes so that jerk with XXXXXb isk won't buy em all up cause has been selling em at 500m
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.05 16:26:00 - [95] Originally by: Kunming And with all inflation the income of ratting and mining is also losing its buying power (regions with rogue drones is the way to go, IMO bounties from rats should also be removed and they should drop worthwhile modules making money circulate instead of injecting more into the economy). Remove insurance will solve a lot of T2 whinings. You buy at the price you can afford or keep losing T1s until you are used to it before jumping into T2s. I have explained how T2 market works like 119283238828928919812837 times. If you do not like the price, do not buy. T2 market should not be T1 market. Cheap T2s are bad for EvE. EvE is balanced between skill points and ISKs. --------- Faction Warfare Begins Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Moghydin Confederation of Red Moon Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.05 16:31:00 - [96] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire EvE is balanced between skill points and ISKs. It sounds nicely, but the meaning of this evades me.Isn't it one of the sentences that look so full of deep hidden truth, but turn out to be like colorful shells devoid of any true meaning.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.05 16:35:00 - [97] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 05/11/2006 16:36:43 Originally by: Moghydin Originally by: Jenny Spitfire EvE is balanced between skill points and ISKs. It sounds nicely, but the meaning of this evades me.Isn't it one of the sentences that look so full of deep hidden truth, but turn out to be like colorful shells devoid of any true meaning. I can tell you what I might do if I have 50M SP and 100M ISKs. I will fly cheap T1 ships. If I am in a bad mood and want to grief a bit, I will go find 1B ISKs somewhere and fit all faction stuffs and T2 stuffs that are now T1 price and go kill all the 5M SP players somewhere. It will not be hard to do. People who cry "Cheap, cheap, ...", "ISKs, ISKs, ...", "Nerf, nerf, ..." do not have the mental capacity to push themselves far. --------- Faction Warfare Begins Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2006.11.05 16:39:00 - [98] Would you all be happy if T2 BPO's could be bought just like T1's? From NPC stations? At lets say... erhm... 5 billion for the Hulk BPO??
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.05 16:41:00 - [99] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 05/11/2006 16:41:53 Originally by: Shameless Avenger Would you all be happy if T2 BPO's could be bought just like T1's? From NPC stations? At lets say... erhm... 5 billion for the Hulk BPO?? 5B? No. 50B or more? I might consider. A T2 BPO should hurt a bit. --------- Faction Warfare Begins Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
BPO HATTER	Posted - 2006.11.05 16:51:00 - [100] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 05/11/2006 16:41:53 Originally by: Shameless Avenger Would you all be happy if T2 BPO's could be bought just like T1's? From NPC stations? At lets say... erhm... 5 billion for the Hulk BPO?? 5B? No. 50B or more? I might consider. A T2 BPO should hurt a bit. To most people in eve 5b does hurt..... oh wait you make how many B a week producting t2 stuff while the rest of use get screwed over?

Moghydin Confederation of Red Moon Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.05 16:52:00 - [101] Edited by: Moghydin on 05/11/2006 16:54:22 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I can tell you what I might do if I have 50M SP and 100M ISKs. I will fly cheap T1 ships. If I am in a bad mood and want to grief a bit, I will go find 1B ISKs somewhere and fit all faction stuffs and T2 stuffs that are now T1 price and go kill all the 5M SP players somewhere. It will not be hard to do. People who cry "Cheap, cheap, ...", "ISKs, ISKs, ...", "Nerf, nerf, ..." do not have the mental capacity to push themselves far. They will never compete well in a competitive environment. Your definition of being competitive is strange. Does griefing 5M sp noobs in T1 ship is being competitive? Fighting the best players the best way you can, THAT is being competitive and not ganking 2 month old mission runners in some dead end low sec. system. And also what mental capabilities of a titanic magnitude did the T2 lottery winners manifest for having that CCP approved ISK trainer in form of some T2 BPO's?
eve's lover	Posted - 2006.11.05 16:52:00 - [102] Originally by: BPO HATTER Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: BPO HATTER Originally by: Jenny Spitfire That is the wonder of economy. Well in the real world an economy isn't controlled by some guy who won a lottery. Yes it is. Those who were lucky enough to get land on oil fields control the oil market. Those who were lucky enough to end up with patents for many very simple, intuitive concepts earn billions a year. Those who were lucky enough to get a skilled director working for them get copyrights on a bunch of good movies and make billions. In the end, even in real life, most of being rich is luck. Only person so far who has made a decent arguement. You win with the oil remark, you have that victory. The next two points of yours furthers my points. Do you pay 200 dollars for a dvd? Do you pay a few hundred dollars for one ticket to see a movie? That drink can in your fridge is pattented, but is the can 10x the price it should be? The answer to all the above is NO. If any of that was true, than those bussines would be closed down because of competition. Ok, then why do some cars cost afew thousand dollars while others can cost in the Millions ? I cant afford to drive a Porsha but you dont see me whining that they drop the price, instead i drive a car i can afford. Its simple, If you dont want to pay 500mill for a hulk, then Dont. The saying "the rich get richer" works in eve just as in real life.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.05 16:58:00 - [103] Originally by: Moghydin Originally by: Jenny Spitfire People who cry "Cheap, cheap, ...", "ISKs, ISKs, ...", "Nerf, nerf, ..." do not have the mental capacity to push themselves far. They will never compete well in a competitive environment. Your definition of being competitive is strange. Does griefing 5M sp noobs in T1 ship is being competitive? Fighting the best players the best way you can, THAT is being competitive and not ganking 2 month old mission runners in some dead end low sec. system. And also what mental capabilities of a titanic magnitude did the T2 lottery winners manifest for having that CCP approved ISK trainer in form of some T2 BPO's? Is EvE supposed to be fair? By your reasoning, we make T2 cheaply available like T1. Why do we stop at there? We can make EvE fairer! Remove skill points. Anyone can use anything. No need to train. Make all ships the same. Racial ships are different in cosmetics. Raven, Armageddon, Tempest and Megathron have missiles velocity bonus and missile damage bonus. This is even better. Remove ISKs and make everything free. --------- Faction Warfare Begins Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
BPO HATTER	Posted - 2006.11.05 16:58:00 - [104] Originally by: eve's lover Originally by: BPO HATTER Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: BPO HATTER Originally by: Jenny Spitfire That is the wonder of economy. Well in the real world an economy isn't controlled by some guy who won a lottery. Yes it is. Those who were lucky enough to get land on oil fields control the oil market. Those who were lucky enough to end up with patents for many very simple, intuitive concepts earn billions a year. Those who were lucky enough to get a skilled director working for them get copyrights on a bunch of good movies and make billions. In the end, even in real life, most of being rich is luck. Only person so far who has made a decent arguement. You win with the oil remark, you have that victory. The next two points of yours furthers my points. Do you pay 200 dollars for a dvd? Do you pay a few hundred dollars for one ticket to see a movie? That drink can in your fridge is pattented, but is the can 10x the price it should be? The answer to all the above is NO. If any of that was true, than those bussines would be closed down because of competition. Ok, then why do some cars cost afew thousand dollars while others can cost in the Millions ? I cant afford to drive a Porsha but you dont see me whining that they drop the price, instead i drive a car i can afford. Its simple, If you dont want to pay 500mill for a hulk, then Dont. The saying "the rich get richer" works in eve just as in real life. I was wondering if someone would eventually say that. Let me explain. You got car 1 (t1) average car lets call it a compact sedan, goes for about 20k, made in different styles by manufactures and at comeptitive prices. Now you got car 2 (t2) a luxury sedan, its more expensive, better features, made by different ppl at semi competitive prices. Thats how things should be in eve. Why would you bring a sportscar up? They cost more to build, so their for they cost more to sell, unlike t2 which is about 12x the build cost for a hulk.
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2006.11.05 17:10:00 - [105] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 05/11/2006 16:41:53 Originally by: Shameless Avenger Would you all be happy if T2 BPO's could be bought just like T1's? From NPC stations? At lets say... erhm... 5 billion for the Hulk BPO?? 5B? No. 50B or more? I might consider. A T2 BPO should hurt a bit. And that's exactly the problem: they don't hurt, they are given in a lottery.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.05 17:11:00 - [106] Originally by: Shameless Avenger And that's exactly the problem: they don't hurt, they are given in a lottery. You could have invested in RP when you had the chance. Kali is also coming. There is no point to cry until then. --------- Faction Warfare Begins Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
zeKzn Empire of Destiny	Posted - 2006.11.05 17:14:00 - [107] god ***it, does there have to be one of these retarded threads EVERY WEEK? my thoughts are my own and do not represent the thoughts of my corp*
Moghydin Confederation of Red Moon Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.05 17:25:00 - [108] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Shameless Avenger And that's exactly the problem: they don't hurt, they are given in a lottery. You could have invested in RP when you had the chance. Kali is also coming. There is no point to cry until then. So, you invested in a lottery at the right time. Well, i didn't, that's why I can't blame the lottery for the lack of T2 BPO in my assets. But in the end, you got that BPO not because you invested in RP, but because you were LUCKY, yes, that is the key word. Blind dumb LUCK was needed to switch Eve difficulty to "easy". Some Joe Nobody instead of you could have gotten this ISK trainer for opening an agent convo some time ago - yes, that much effort was needed in order to have an ISK "cheat". How many ppl invested in hundreds of thousands of RPs and got nothing at all.
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.11.05 17:27:00 - [109] Edited by: Plutoinum on 05/11/2006 17:27:52 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire EvE is balanced between skill points and ISKs. The prices are acceptible for t2-bpo owners, mission ***s etc., players who have high incomes. Owners of good T2-bpos earn their isk in their sleep, mission ***s earn isk with their main activity and operate at low risk, so they automatically end up in faction fitted ships. I find it rather disturbing that those people push the prices higher and higher and the usual not so rich pvp player has to compete with it. I want my vagabond for 120 mil max. End of story. (But I think about changing my playstyle anyway. Want to earn iskies in my sleep or while having fun, too. Grinding for isk feels more like a pain each time I need to do it. )
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2006.11.05 17:43:00 - [110] I understand if you are mad for not having the T2 BPO. There is no way to get it now so yeah, rabble rabble. But what's the deal with mission running? U can do that too if you want. After all, the iskies for the T2 ships have to come from somewhere.

Darcie Wray	Posted - 2006.11.05 18:09:00 - [111] Wow. Spitfire is sooooo blinded by herself and is sooooooooooooo getting owned on so many levels by these people. This is simply amazing. Hey, Spitfire! Read this: Please please listen. Please listen. Everyone saying the T2 BPO Lottery is good etc etc because "If you cant afford a 500m Hulk then dont buy it!" is missing the point. The POINT is that NO ONE should be given an item worth 70billion isk+ just for getting a research agent (takes next to no effort) and then the game mechanics creating luck and granting it to them. If Hulks were an NPC sold item and the price was 500m people would complain, but not many would be totally outraged. What really really makes people mad is that some stupid mindless nobody did next to nothing and got something that makes her the ultra supreme uber EVE player, who is able to buy a 60m SP character and a mothership with just a few months of EASY EASY profit from her lucky BPO that CCP handed to her almost for free in the form of the JOKE that is the T2 BPO lottery. I dont give a rats *** about your "Real world economy cant afford it dont buy it" nonsense. This is a game and games are supposed to be fair and make sense.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.05 18:15:00 - [112] I know I am blind but I also know I am not blind when I am discussing with --------- Faction Warfare Begins Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Kim Chee Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.05 18:17:00 - [113] Originally by: BPO HATTER This has gone beyond capitilism. This is to the point of insanity. Hulk=500m Hulks Build cost=40m See a problem? I can see payin 150m-200m for a hulk because its T2, and its supposed to be "elite". Well, if you and others who feel they "need" a hulk would refuse to buy them for the price that's being asked... and eve-mail the seller with a reasonable offer, perhaps when they fail to unload more than 1 every few months, they'll start lowering their prices. OTOH, if you keep buying them and then whining about it, the sellers have no reason to lower their prices. Whine with your pocketbook, not the forums. :)
DefJam101 Gallente Praxiteles Inc. E N I G M A	Posted - 2006.11.05 18:20:00 - [114] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I know I am blind but I also know I am not blind when I am discussing with You own a very profitable T2 BPO and have an unlimited supply of ISK. You don't have a right to try and defend yourself in this argument. Stop trying. The T2 market is unbalanced, get over it. There is no risk, there is an unlimited amount of reward. See a problem? ***
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.11.05 18:25:00 - [115] I get so tired of these threads. Its very unfortunate that all of them are written by people who have little concept of how the T2 market works. They ignore re-sellers driving the prices up, not the builders They ignore the organization that sell even the high prices ships/components at reasonable prices, only to have them purchases by the re-sellers. They ignore the mediocre profits the vast majority of T2 bpo's bring in. They ignore the slow build times (and incredibly slow copy times) that lead to shortages in the expensive high demand items. They ignore the changes to this system that Kali will bring in. They refuse to accept the fact that some very handy items are going to be rare and expensive, and this is how it should be. They ignore the fact that the average T2 BPO owner might be lucky enough to bring in 50 to 100mil isk a day from that BPO. A figure that most skilled miners, NPCer's, or mission runners can get close to without a T2 BPO. True, it takes less time to gather the components and market the ships, but should'nt someone with the supposed "I Win" ticket in EVE have SOME advantage? Just relax. Those of you who think economics should be "fair" should be happy with Kali.
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.11.05 18:28:00 - [116] Edited by: Ranger 1 on 05/11/2006 18:29:50 Originally by: DefJam101 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I know I am blind but I also know I am not blind when I am discussing with You own a very profitable T2 BPO and have an unlimited supply of ISK. You don't have a right to try and defend yourself in this argument. Stop trying. The T2 market is unbalanced, get over it. There is no risk, there is an unlimited amount of reward. See a problem? Dog gone it Jenny, don't you realise that someone who knows what is actually going on has "NO RIGHT" to post in this thread? Gesh, what were you thinking. This thread is purely for those that can't afford the more expensive items in game and feel the need to complain.
Darcie Wray	Posted - 2006.11.05 18:32:00 - [117] Originally by: Ranger 1 I get so tired of these threads. Its very unfortunate that all of them are written by people who have little concept of how the T2 market works. They ignore re-sellers driving the prices up, not the builders They ignore the organization that sell even the high prices ships/components at reasonable prices, only to have them purchases by the re-sellers. They ignore the mediocre profits the vast majority of T2 bpo's bring in. They ignore the slow build times (and incredibly slow copy times) that lead to shortages in the expensive high demand items. They ignore the changes to this system that Kali will bring in. They refuse to accept the fact that some very handy items are going to be rare and expensive, and this is how it should be. They ignore the fact that the average T2 BPO owner might be lucky enough to bring in 50 to 100mil isk a day from that BPO. A figure that most skilled miners, NPCer's, or mission runners can get close to without a T2 BPO. True, it takes less time to gather the components and market the ships, but should'nt someone with the supposed "I Win" ticket in EVE have SOME advantage? Just relax. Those of you who think economics should be "fair" should be happy with Kali. Please read the yellow text all over this thread. Thanks. PS: I know many T2 bpos dont produce the dumb profits that some of them do.
Nev Clavain Wise Guys	Posted - 2006.11.05 18:33:00 - [118] Edited by: Nev Clavain on 05/11/2006 18:34:29 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Moghydin Originally by: Jenny Spitfire People who cry "Cheap, cheap, ...", "ISKs, ISKs, ...", "Nerf, nerf, ..." do not have the mental capacity to push themselves far. They will never compete well in a competitive environment. Your definition of being competitive is strange. Does griefing 5M sp noobs in T1 ship is being competitive? Fighting the best players the best way you can, THAT is being competitive and not ganking 2 month old mission runners in some dead end low sec. system. And also what mental capabilities of a titanic magnitude did the T2 lottery winners manifest for having that CCP approved ISK trainer in form of some T2 BPO's? Is EvE supposed to be fair? By your reasoning, we make T2 cheaply available like T1. Why do we stop at there? We can make EvE fairer! Remove skill points. Anyone can use anything. No need to train. Make all ships the same. Racial ships are different in cosmetics. Raven, Armageddon, Tempest and Megathron have missiles velocity bonus and missile damage bonus. This is even better. Remove ISKs and make everything free. Why take it to extremes Jenny? Is it so difficult to admit that the price of certain T2 items could actually come down in price a bit without destroying the entire game? EVE was dong just fine when hacs cost 100M and, yet it would be catastrophic according to you to go back there, and anyone who wants to is in some way uncompetitive and lazy. We have heard your explanations of the T2 market, and to be frank I find them simplistic and disagree with them. Simply saying do not buy them is futile, because people who take your advice will simply be totally undermined by isk buying newbies who just think this is how things are done in EVE. Prices will come down when CCP takes effective action to remedy the drastic reduce in suply per capita of certain t2 items, which were released when the game population was at a 1/3 of its current levels. Without going too deep into economic theory, this sort of economy is being controlled in your favour by CCP, it is not player driven at all, the players just churn out the goods but the ultimate source of supply comes from CCP. T2 is a command economy, not player driven, and it benefits arbitrary 'winners' who are suddenly granted an utterly limitless, and unnassailable source of production, with absolutely no risk of real price competition due to the stagnant supply situation. Your arguments seem even less credible when you also account for the fact that you have a massive vested interest in maintaining the current status quo which nets you an absolute fortune. Hopefully Invention is going to change all this, but from initial reports it doesn't seem that promising. The fact that CCP are trying to implement something suggests also that even the game developers think the current system is a mess, yet you still stubbornly still say its as it should be and that everyone else should just stop buying expensive ships, and that no one should be given the same incredible gift you have, and then make fairly personal assumptions about people who disagree with you. Pffft. Sig removed. Please keep sigs to 400x120 pixels and 24000 bytes in size or less. -Kaemonn
Slan Traveller SteelVipers YouWhat	Posted - 2006.11.05 18:47:00 - [119] Yeah. What this game needs is a revolution. Including putting some filthy rich people to the wall and shooting them. It would wonderfully reflect the spirit of the game. Sic parvis magna
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.05 18:49:00 - [120] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 05/11/2006 18:50:25 Originally by: Nev Clavain Your arguments seem even less credible when you also account for the fact that you have a massive vested interest in maintaining the current status quo which nets you an absolute fortune. Hopefully Invention is going to change all this, but from initial reports it doesn't seem that promising. Your opinion is biased because you conclude I am wrong because I have a Vagabond BPO and should not discuss further. I might as well be the jury and read the accused has murdered before and conclude the accused is guilty in his current crime that the accused is not. If you want to argue, put me at your level and assume I am as poor and T2 BPO-less as you all. --------- Faction Warfare Begins Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!



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