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Apex Bex
Boundless Exploration
29
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Posted - 2015.05.07 10:26:11 -
[1] - Quote
I love kill boards as much as the next guy, but sometimes it feels overpowered as an intelligence source. Especially in w space where the lack of local adds to the mystery and shroud, but kill boards kind of undermine that. Any thoughts? |
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery Prolapse.
2302
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Posted - 2015.05.07 10:27:46 -
[2] - Quote
You would say that
Prolapse. Taking fights since 2014.
Sudden Buggery. Got duumb? Hola, Batmanuel!
http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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Neckbeard Nolyfe
Zero Fun Allowed
58
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Posted - 2015.05.07 10:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
It is overpowered free intel and thus should be removed. All it takes is checking the jsig of a wh you jump in, and you see who lives in it, what their tz is, how many people they get in fleets, what ships they use.
Perfect example of what is wrong with killboards.
if you are scouting somebody you should do it yourself and not rely on external automated tools!
~lvl 60 paladin~
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Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1019
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Posted - 2015.05.07 11:04:15 -
[4] - Quote
Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote:It is overpowered free intel and thus should be removed.
I wonder how this goes with your opinion towards watchlists, given they actually give accurate intel on login-status whereas the KB just spits you out things they've done in the past (thought e turn out to be like 95% accurate for the next situation).
Watchlists pinch into the same niche of free intel, KBs though only carry info about your activity if you uploaded a key first, or shoot lots of API-verified people. |
Ghenghis Kralj
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
71
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Posted - 2015.05.07 15:05:55 -
[5] - Quote
this is the first time in 5 years that i have ever read somebody complain about killboards containing too much or any intel. that's how stupid this post is. |
Jez Amatin
Limited Power Inc It Must Be Jelly Cause Jam Don't Shake
68
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Posted - 2015.05.07 15:21:07 -
[6] - Quote
to be fair, he's keeping the market in t1 exploration frigs in good shape |
Andrew Jester
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
1219
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Posted - 2015.05.07 15:24:16 -
[7] - Quote
maybe, just maybe, you shouldn't put your APIs in then? Not a be all end all solution, but it can help.
If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
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MooMooDachshundCow
Incertae Sedis
225
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Posted - 2015.05.07 15:32:34 -
[8] - Quote
OP probably thinks that damage notifications give away too much info about his resist profile too.
Yeah, well, it's just like my-áopinion, man.
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Triakis Cadelanne
Mount N' Do
19
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Posted - 2015.05.07 15:52:46 -
[9] - Quote
I agree with the OP. On the other hand without killboard there's no way to gather intel without having someone connected and active 24/7 in your target's system to watch what's happening (which is mostly nothing). It sounds cool but probably too hardcore for many of us. |
Jack Miton
Isogen 5
4431
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Posted - 2015.05.07 23:22:28 -
[10] - Quote
This has absolutely nothing to do with wspace. Good job. Also, it's a non issue.
There is no Bob.
Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
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Erica Dusette
Isogen 5
43356
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Posted - 2015.05.07 23:41:05 -
[11] - Quote
What Jack said.
Wow, we really are scraping the bottom of the barrel for stuff to complain about or try and nerf these days.
Though I've a feeling OP was just a funny troll and actually doubt this is intended as a cereal topic.
Ghenghis Kralj wrote:this is the first time in 5 years that i have ever read somebody complain about killboards containing too much or any intel. that's how stupid this post is. I've seen it before (from like .. 2 people?), there's even a suggestion thread for it in features and ideas to remove KBs completely.
Silliest idea ever imo, even worse than the whole watchlist thing.
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
Gû+ -+eep+¦ng -+y pro-++¦-òe -ò+¦nce 17|12|116 GÖÑ
Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
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Neckbeard Nolyfe
Zero Fun Allowed
60
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Posted - 2015.05.08 00:34:14 -
[12] - Quote
It's ok apex, looks like none got the joke.
~lvl 60 paladin~
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Iyokus Patrouette
Sudden Buggery Prolapse.
454
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Posted - 2015.05.08 01:19:10 -
[13] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:This has absolutely nothing to do with wspace. Good job. Also, it's a non issue.
You don't understand, every thing has to do with wormhole space all the time! even non issue things. . actually especially the non issue things.
God knows there hasn't actually been any 'wormhole' content in this sub forum for a long time now.
---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----
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Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery Prolapse.
2305
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Posted - 2015.05.08 02:32:41 -
[14] - Quote
I know that the OP spends way too much time staring at retrievers before killing them. he ought to become internet famous by videoing himself. Remember to pat yourself on the back copiously and egregiously every time you kill a noob ship.
Prolapse. Taking fights since 2014.
Sudden Buggery. Got duumb? Hola, Batmanuel!
http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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Apex Bex
Boundless Exploration
32
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Posted - 2015.05.08 02:34:46 -
[15] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:I know that the OP spends way too much time staring at retrievers before killing them. he ought to become internet famous by videoing himself. Remember to pat yourself on the back copiously and egregiously every time you kill a noob ship.
This one time I killed like seven MTU's but totally forgot to tape it. Opportunity lost. |
Jhousetlin Zamayid
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
27
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Posted - 2015.05.09 09:30:17 -
[16] - Quote
People still care about killboards? Wow. lol |
FNPD
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.05.09 16:41:21 -
[17] - Quote
The difference in a killboard and a watchlist is someone had to VOLUNTEER to provide that intel to the killboard. Either you OR THE VICTIM has the ability to advertise what has happened to them.
A watchlist is involuntary information that makes zero sense. You could argue in known space that maybe if you are linked to a local you could see if someone is online, but in w-space a watch list is free intel that make ZERO sense from a RP standpoint or from the standpoint of a game that intel has to be earned in some way. If you say knowing that someone online is not intel, that is also a lie, it is intelligence that you should have to earn by either physically seeing them or through local channels. |
Apex Bex
Boundless Exploration
32
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Posted - 2015.05.10 04:53:38 -
[18] - Quote
FNPD wrote:The difference in a killboard and a watchlist is someone had to VOLUNTEER to provide that intel to the killboard. Either you OR THE VICTIM has the ability to advertise what has happened to them.
A watchlist is involuntary information that makes zero sense. You could argue in known space that maybe if you are linked to a local you could see if someone is online, but in w-space a watch list is free intel that make ZERO sense from a RP standpoint or from the standpoint of a game that intel has to be earned in some way. If you say knowing that someone online is not intel, that is also a lie, it is intelligence that you should have to earn by either physically seeing them or through local channels.
Yo dude, I think you're lost. This isn't about watch lists, k?
Way to derail my thread, man.
But hey, since we're talking about RP, how many times in your real life have you logged off to avoid a fight?
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
978
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Posted - 2015.05.11 17:29:59 -
[19] - Quote
KB are actually totally underpowered. The limited ability to sort or gather info from the current popular kbs is mostly non-existant.
For example the eve-kill fascination w/ breaking things into monthly only blocks is just beyond my understanding.
For a kb to be OP it would need the following features:
1. One click to all of an individuals kb history 2. The ability to parse that individuals history by // tz // system // ship type // gang size // 3. Sort a pilot by solo kills 4. Sort a pilot / corp / alliance by activity (graph from 0000 to 2400) 5. Sort a pilot / corp / alliance by types of ships flown in the last (pull down menu for time period)
It should go as follows:
click on a kill You are now 1 click away from the pilot / corp / alliance data of all parties involved in that kill Once you pick the pilot / corp / alliance you should be one click away from the following pages: solo kills average gang size ship type(s) flown by most to least popular where the pvp happens for that pilot / corp / alliance when the pvp happens for that pilot / corp / alliance
This would make a kb both OP and useful. There really isn't a kb out there right now that gives quick clicking to relevant data. Honestly, when I'm looking up a pilot / group I've just encountered I could give a ratsassamatass about their isk efficiency or their all time standing against every other kb whorecorp in eve. I just want to get a quick image of how big their gang might be and what they might be flying.
All that efficiency this and that is great for recruitment and chest beating, but it would sure be nice to be able to size up an opponent quickly to make some informed decisions on the spot when you encournter them. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
982
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Posted - 2015.05.12 12:38:01 -
[20] - Quote
FNPD wrote:The difference in a killboard and a watchlist is someone had to VOLUNTEER to provide that intel to the killboard. Either you OR THE VICTIM has the ability to advertise what has happened to them.
A watchlist is involuntary information that makes zero sense. You could argue in known space that maybe if you are linked to a local you could see if someone is online, but in w-space a watch list is free intel that make ZERO sense from a RP standpoint or from the standpoint of a game that intel has to be earned in some way. If you say knowing that someone online is not intel, that is also a lie, it is intelligence that you should have to earn by either physically seeing them or through local channels.
So as a wh gal that is totally not a RP - I could give a ratsassamatass about the RP relevance of the watch list. As far as volunteer - the watch list is an original game mechanic that is used sucessfully for many forms of pvp. This fact (that's it's used in various ways to execute pvp) alone should make every player in eve want to keep and protect it. Most of the whinerbabies that want it gone are folks that have trouble dealing with the possibility that someone may be working on blowing up their precious little space ship.
You volunteer to be a part of that game mechanic by logging in. The difference between a kb and a watch list that you point out is that you like kb and don't like watch lists. You volunteer for both by logging (watch list) and undocking (makes you available to be on a kb). You personally don't have to do either if you really don't like the mechanics involved.
Can folks use the watch list for hunting supers? You bet! Can folks use the watch list to do login traps? You bet! Is it a source of intel? You bet! Is it a PVP tool? Absolutely! Is it used for PVE and farming? Not really. Should the watch list be in the game? Hellsyeahs.
Also - get out of the kb thread you blah blah bleep bleep blah
TL/DR Remove the watchlist proponents are either whiney super pilots or whiney bears - I don't give a ratsassamatass about either. Get your watchlist aided PVP on brothers and sisters! |
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Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1027
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Posted - 2015.05.12 13:18:36 -
[21] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:KB are actually totally underpowered. The limited ability to sort or gather info from the current popular kbs is mostly non-existant.
It looks like you're really enjoying small gang with cancer tactics (in a positive way), commonly got between 1-5 people flying with you and are mostly active during the western us tz (wild guess). According to KB, your average gang size is about 3-4 guys, you are able to switch into a dreadnought, and you're potentially a whole lot better at flying your ship than the average bonehead I encounter hugging the hole with logistics and falcon. In case you were baiting I'd assume there are combat/force recons around I don't see.
Is that is underpowered information, I don't know. If I were to fight you, I#d probably try to get people into nados and volley through your shields, looks like the best bet to deal with that <.< |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
982
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Posted - 2015.05.12 19:26:01 -
[22] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:KB are actually totally underpowered. The limited ability to sort or gather info from the current popular kbs is mostly non-existant. It looks like you're really enjoying small gang with cancer tactics (in a positive way), commonly got between 1-5 people flying with you and are mostly active during the western us tz (wild guess). According to KB, your average gang size is about 3-4 guys, you are able to switch into a dreadnought, and you're potentially a whole lot better at flying your ship than the average bonehead I encounter hugging the hole with logistics and falcon. In case you were baiting I'd assume there are combat/force recons around I don't see. Is that is underpowered information, I don't know. If I were to fight you, I#d probably try to get people into nados and volley through your shields, looks like the best bet to deal with that <.<
I didn't say it couldn't be done. I said it should be 2 or 3 clicks not a science project.
You're one of those snipperdoodles that takes a part you want to comment on, deletes the rest.
Here's the important part of my post:
This would make a kb both OP and useful. There really isn't a kb out there right now that gives quick clicking to relevant data. Honestly, when I'm looking up a pilot / group I've just encountered I could give a ratsassamatass about their isk efficiency or their all time standing against every other kb whorecorp in eve. I just want to get a quick image of how big their gang might be and what they might be flying.
I'm not sure what cancer tactics are, but I'm sure I've been accurately accused of worse in my eve history. Here's the MO. We scan a chain and fight anything we can, gank anything we can and disrupt anything we can. We go afk a lot. We giggle like 8 year olds a lot. We make fun of each other. I've been known to hold a static open for 6 hours to miss a carrier and I've whelped 2 vindi fleets on rorqs and killed none. On the other hand a few weeks back we sat quietly on a null hole while one of our guys pretty much solo'd an entire alliance that thought trickling in series to the top belt in t1 cruiser/bc was a good approach to engaging a rattlesnake. If any or all of this is cancer, then guilty as charged.
For me wh cancer is: >5 proteus + >3 armor web loki + >3 armor jamgus + >6 guardians = wh cancer. Quite a few guys love that fleet. I think we're both right. |
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1027
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Posted - 2015.05.12 21:41:35 -
[23] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Lloyd Roses wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:KB are actually totally underpowered. The limited ability to sort or gather info from the current popular kbs is mostly non-existant. It looks like you're really enjoying small gang with cancer tactics (in a positive way), commonly got between 1-5 people flying with you and are mostly active during the western us tz (wild guess). According to KB, your average gang size is about 3-4 guys, you are able to switch into a dreadnought, and you're potentially a whole lot better at flying your ship than the average bonehead I encounter hugging the hole with logistics and falcon. In case you were baiting I'd assume there are combat/force recons around I don't see. Is that is underpowered information, I don't know. If I were to fight you, I#d probably try to get people into nados and volley through your shields, looks like the best bet to deal with that <.< I didn't say it couldn't be done. I said it should be 2 or 3 clicks not a science project. You're one of those snipperdoodles that takes a part you want to comment on, deletes the rest. Here's the important part of my post: This would make a kb both OP and useful. There really isn't a kb out there right now that gives quick clicking to relevant data. Honestly, when I'm looking up a pilot / group I've just encountered I could give a ratsassamatass about their isk efficiency or their all time standing against every other kb whorecorp in eve. I just want to get a quick image of how big their gang might be and what they might be flying. I'm not sure what cancer tactics are, but I'm sure I've been accurately accused of worse in my eve history. Here's the MO. We scan a chain and fight anything we can, gank anything we can and disrupt anything we can. We go afk a lot. We giggle like 8 year olds a lot. We make fun of each other. I've been known to hold a static open for 6 hours to miss a carrier and I've whelped 2 vindi fleets on rorqs and killed none. On the other hand a few weeks back we sat quietly on a null hole while one of our guys pretty much solo'd an entire alliance that thought trickling in series to the top belt in t1 cruiser/bc was a good approach to engaging a rattlesnake. If any or all of this is cancer, then guilty as charged. For me wh cancer is: >5 proteus + >3 armor web loki + >3 armor jamgus + >6 guardians = wh cancer. Quite a few guys love that fleet. I think we're both right.
That stuff is the intel from copying your name and pasting it to zkill (killpages 1+2), a check on your last sleip+cerb losses and then once pasted to plh for any older stuff. It took about two minutes, okay. I didn't quote your hole post since it was just above anyways, nad if you require [...] [...] around the citation, I can do that aswell. I only wanted to do a wild guess from a look at your first pages, and the stuff I wrote down is what it appeared like. You see a scout labeled [x], check out the KB and frequently got a very good idea of how many people might be up to things at certain times. Beyond that, preparing a little and watchlisting ten of them you saw appearing on a KB should then really give a clear picture.
The tactics comment was going towards orthrus/sleips and other top-choices for a very small gang. So no it was far from meant as an insult. It's quite the opposite of 3 cloaky proteus, a falcon, a devoter and guardians I'm used to. Not saying I wouldn't die to the armorgang, but the shieldgang is a lot more intimidating on that scale.
Back to the point, it most certainly kb-intel isn'T just two clicks. But the effort is well manageable. Even if you then watchlist them or their most active, it's not complicated just a bunch of clicks. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
985
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Posted - 2015.05.13 10:36:27 -
[24] - Quote
I think we pretty much agree on a lot of stuffs. I would just like kb to move away from "look how awesome I am" to be more user focussed. If I had my way, it would be 2 clicks to what I want and 2 minutes and a few copt/paste operations to determine the isk efficiency of LittleSallyRottencrotch. There is data that would be nice right now and there is data worthy of a science project. I've been saying the kb have it upside down for quite a few years.
KB programmer folks - here me now!!!
I want an couple of graphs.
1. Activity over time for a pilot / corp / alliance. (make this both over the last week / month / year and a breakdown of daily activity periods). (that's two different activity graphs to choose from) 2. Average gang size (again give me a couple of time options - day / month / year).
I want a couple of charts.
1. What the guy flies - ships on the left and percentage of time flown on the right would be fine. 2. Where his explosions occur - HS (Jita undock hero), LowSex (FW, ebil piwate), Null (Rainbow Princess Land), WH Maybe parse this one by sec status or actual system/region (go nuts with 2 or 3 options)
PROTIP: If you're choosing between useful functionality and some edgy spalsh art - make it useful not pretty! You make a good solid useful KB and folks will use it.
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Apex Bex
Boundless Exploration
32
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Posted - 2015.05.15 02:13:19 -
[25] - Quote
I was watching a Twitch live stream of a Wingspan TT pilot yesterday. He was in a C2 with several friends and a Mining barge turned up in an ore site to mine. I witnessed in horror as they used kill board exploits to form a kill/loss history on the pilot in question, determining that he was not what he appeared to be, was most likely part of a trap and despite being able to disengage at will, chose not to engage him at all.
This is a blight on our great game and must be removed immediately!
#TINFOILHAT |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
994
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Posted - 2015.05.15 14:10:38 -
[26] - Quote
Apex Bex wrote:I was watching a Twitch live stream of a Wingspan TT pilot yesterday. He was in a C2 with several friends and a Mining barge turned up in an ore site to mine. I witnessed in horror as they used kill board exploits to form a kill/loss history on the pilot in question, determining that he was not what he appeared to be, was most likely part of a trap and despite being able to disengage at will, chose not to engage him at all.
This is a blight on our great game and must be removed immediately!
#TINFOILHAT
I hope you are referring to wingspan crapping out instead of engaging and not the ability to sort through kb data. You can't remove the will to not engage.
Barges are tasty. Bait Barges are also tasty. Both should be consumed.
Bait Barg (yum) https://zkillboard.com/kill/46625012/
As for wingspan and others... you just need the right bait. With proper makeup and a little play acting even they can be pulled in. For them I would recommend Astero Bait in a relic site. https://zkillboard.com/kill/46529811/
The whole 'wingspan incident' started with this https://zkillboard.com/kill/46529497/
They seem like decent guys and they sent billy a reasonably commical mail concerning the whole thing. They seem alright to me. They wonked our guy. We responded w/ bait. They took it. Explosions happened. If I recall... they may or may not have had at least one bomber still in system they could have added to the fight, but then again he could have been taking out the trash, walking the dog or putting bunion creme on Bane's foot. I try my best not to judge too much. |
Araikas Rhal
Hair-Trigger Prolapse.
20
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Posted - 2015.05.18 11:38:10 -
[27] - Quote
Apex Bex wrote:FNPD wrote:The difference in a killboard and a watchlist is someone had to VOLUNTEER to provide that intel to the killboard. Either you OR THE VICTIM has the ability to advertise what has happened to them.
A watchlist is involuntary information that makes zero sense. You could argue in known space that maybe if you are linked to a local you could see if someone is online, but in w-space a watch list is free intel that make ZERO sense from a RP standpoint or from the standpoint of a game that intel has to be earned in some way. If you say knowing that someone online is not intel, that is also a lie, it is intelligence that you should have to earn by either physically seeing them or through local channels. Yo dude, I think you're lost. This isn't about watch lists, k? Way to derail my thread, man. But hey, since we're talking about RP, how many times in your real life have you logged off to avoid a fight?
Totally asking for a friend. Does curling up into a ball and whimpering count as logging off IRL?
I played other games in my past life. I must have done something wrong to be re-incarnated as an Eve player.
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Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1045
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Posted - 2015.05.18 14:55:14 -
[28] - Quote
Wingspans highsec camping stratios/falcon/manticore fleet is known for shitting their pants 23/7. |
Alundil
Isogen 5
960
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Posted - 2015.05.18 15:26:29 -
[29] - Quote
Apex Bex wrote:FNPD wrote:The difference in a killboard and a watchlist is someone had to VOLUNTEER to provide that intel to the killboard. Either you OR THE VICTIM has the ability to advertise what has happened to them.
A watchlist is involuntary information that makes zero sense. You could argue in known space that maybe if you are linked to a local you could see if someone is online, but in w-space a watch list is free intel that make ZERO sense from a RP standpoint or from the standpoint of a game that intel has to be earned in some way. If you say knowing that someone online is not intel, that is also a lie, it is intelligence that you should have to earn by either physically seeing them or through local channels. Yo dude, I think you're lost. This isn't about watch lists, k? Way to derail my thread, man. But hey, since we're talking about RP, how many times in your real life have you logged off to avoid a fight? You big meanie
Your hurtful insinuations killed FNPD
I'm right behind you
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Apex Bex
Boundless Exploration
35
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Posted - 2015.05.19 03:36:47 -
[30] - Quote
Alundil wrote:Apex Bex wrote:FNPD wrote:The difference in a killboard and a watchlist is someone had to VOLUNTEER to provide that intel to the killboard. Either you OR THE VICTIM has the ability to advertise what has happened to them.
A watchlist is involuntary information that makes zero sense. You could argue in known space that maybe if you are linked to a local you could see if someone is online, but in w-space a watch list is free intel that make ZERO sense from a RP standpoint or from the standpoint of a game that intel has to be earned in some way. If you say knowing that someone online is not intel, that is also a lie, it is intelligence that you should have to earn by either physically seeing them or through local channels. Yo dude, I think you're lost. This isn't about watch lists, k? Way to derail my thread, man. But hey, since we're talking about RP, how many times in your real life have you logged off to avoid a fight? You big meanie Your hurtful insinuations killed FNPD
He sure showed me.
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