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Brel
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Posted - 2003.11.08 21:02:00 -
[1]
Why did CCP get the fundamental design so wrong after 10 years of MMO experience in the developer community?
PKers will always dominate in a design that allows them to do so. This is not a reference to balanced PvP, but malicious, obviously very idle people who use all the exploits of the game to get thier kicks. Admittedly these are usually young people, below 14 years old who get a kick out of it - its a statistic.
But a bad game design is a bad game design. Did any of Eve's designers ever play MMO before embarking on this venture? Origin almost completely lost Ultima Online to the plague of PKers, but managed to make fundamental changes in time to save thier game and profit, but not before loosing huge swathes of players.
Why has CCP not learnt from that basic mistake: "PKers will dominate, and the notion of a balanced good and evil player group is a myth"?
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Reah
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Posted - 2003.11.09 04:36:00 -
[2]
 Quote:
This is not a reference to balanced PvP, but malicious, obviously very idle people who use all the exploits of the game to get thier kicks.
using an exploit is banable
and its not bad game design, more like a bug thats being abused, and u honestly think ccp planed it to be this way, every game has exploits, but u cant just remove every exploit over night, im sure theres still lots of exploits that aint even been discovered yet.
Quote:
"PKers will dominate, and the notion of a balanced good and evil player group is a myth"
in 0.0 space its those ppl who are supposed to dominiate(whoever has the biggest guns, may they be good/bad guys or not), while PK'ers aint allowed in 0.5-1.0 space, and 0.4-0.1 is some kinda middle ground etc..
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Ethen Hunt
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Posted - 2003.11.09 05:02:00 -
[3]
Look at the map where most of the pod kills are, most are 0.4 because people think that space there is still safe. ALso those systems have much more traffic for the pod killers to gank. So 0.1 to 0.4 i find more dangerious than 0.0, and least there you know where you stand and what to expect.
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Jelerak
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Posted - 2003.11.09 12:35:00 -
[4]
I think CCP has done a fairly good job of balancing the interestes of violent and non-violent players.
Although there is a tension between those two groups which leads to the high activity in 0.4 areas, I am able to keep safe within the 0.5 to 1.0 zone.
So the violent players can be violent as they like in 0.4 and lower, and the non-violent ones can carry on with their style of play within the secure area.
Makes sense to me.
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Raj Whitehall
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Posted - 2003.11.09 18:31:00 -
[5]
I personally think some on CCP staff have been PK's in past. I think they designed the game to give PK's a playing field with a lure to bring victims in for thier amusment. did you ever consider that Brei
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Reptar
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Posted - 2003.11.09 22:00:00 -
[6]
 MORON ALERT!!!
 j'k
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darth solo
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Posted - 2003.11.10 13:27:00 -
[7]
Quote:
Look at the map where most of the pod kills are, most are 0.4 because people think that space there is still safe. ALso those systems have much more traffic for the pod killers to gank. So 0.1 to 0.4 i find more dangerious than 0.0, and least there you know where you stand and what to expect.
thats a very good point my friend.
Iv very rarely PVP in 0.0 space..........
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Phoibos
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Posted - 2003.11.11 12:53:00 -
[8]
Er, the PK-players are not dominating Eve. Please. Fighting is not perfect right now, with lags that helps pirates and inst jump bookmarks that helps players. But the ballance is pretty good I think, just not the fighting.
And no I'm not a pirate, but without pirates and wars this game just wouldn't be fun. Sadly some people don't seem to get this. haven't you guys realized that one big point of this game is to battle each other, either with the market or with thips, or with isk or treason or.... ?
Bah, I shouldn't read this forums, always makes me depressed. :)
/Phoibos
DreamScape
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Bexxly
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Posted - 2003.11.11 18:21:00 -
[9]
no offence but if you don't like PK'ers stay in high sec space or play a single player game 
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slothe
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Posted - 2003.11.11 18:24:00 -
[10]
presses the uh uh button.
Say hello on our forum @www.aserea.com
or join our public channel ingame "MLM Public"
http://www.khainestar.com/eve |
hellwarrior
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Posted - 2003.11.11 19:56:00 -
[11]
Have a cookie :) ROFLMAO
If you look at the age post, there were only 3 14yr olds who posted....
I was one of them LoL, and by no means do I pirate/grief attacking helpless newbies.(Then again new people should not go below .5)
Infact I do quite the opposite, the other day we had a few PAK tied up in a station for quite awhile :) After one of them said it was 'their' region.
P.S. I am trying to change those ebil pirates (all 3 listed atm are PAK), with kittens! :D
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2003.11.11 23:09:00 -
[12]
I have no problem with PKer's as such. They are part of the game and a game like this needs an element like this to rev things up a bit. Griefers are another matter. They just suck and do nothing to enhance the game world. Pirate groups ar emore like organzied crime with some lone-wolves about. Generally their overall goal is to prosper but they do it by pirate techniques instead of mining or trading...the Al Capone's of EVE. The griefers are the John Wayne Gacy's of the EVE universe. People who do absolutely zero to add to the game and merely kill because they get a rise out of it. Case in point was an Apoc and a Scorp that nailed me on jump-in. I was in a Tristan all of one week into the game. They didn't ask for money or say anything for that matter. By the time my screen came-up (and I have broadband and a fast PC) I was half dead...five seconds later I was all dead. Of course I didn't have a chance in hell but how this aids the overall feel of EVE I do not see.
What I do not understand is the Dev's stance on getting lag killed and not seeing it as a problem. I believe their offical answer was something like lag is a player issue, not a design issue. Huh? It is their design that allows campers at the jump-in points to lock your ship before you can do a thing. If I stray into .4 space (or less) and some rat goes after me then fine but at least give me a chance, whatever chance it may be no matter how slim, to do something about it. Rats even encourage the lag which while not an exploit exactly is certainly bending the game out of skew from how it should be. How anyone can possibly view lag kills as 'ok...just a part of the game' is beyond me. There are probably dozens of ways to fix this that aren't unbalancing. Make ships completely unlockable for 10 seconds (or whatever) upon entering a system. To still allow jump-in camping the ship warping in should likewise be inhibited from doing anything fro 10 seconds as their systems 'stabilize' (or whatever techno-babble you want to use to describe it). Rats would still have the drop on the incoming ship and have a good chance of zapping it but the jumped-in ship now actually has a chance to respond. Why is this not a more balanced approach? I'd probably (make that certainly) still be dead upon jumping in to the face of an Apoc and a Scorp (as mentioned above) but I guarantee I'd feel better (not quite the right word but I'll leave it) if I felt I actually could do something...anything. If nothing else I would have learned a little something about evading such an attack...still be dead but several of those and you start seeing what gets you just a little closer to getting away...eventually I'd have a ship good enough to pull it off. Instead the world comes into view just long enough to see my pod floating away.
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2003.11.11 23:26:00 -
[13]
I should note that I realize that this issue has been beaten to death but I had to put my $0.02 in anyway. It is, for me, without doubt the single biggest drawback this game has currently.
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Godfather's Revenge
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Posted - 2003.11.13 12:25:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Godfather's Revenge on 13/11/2003 12:35:03
Bah, only smiling about this funny postings. Something terribly wrong something really true.
But in the end, any mpg contents pk'ler, thats still fact, and ok. But the primary point is, if pk'lers searching for equivalent opponents in pvp and a little bit more ethical and moral gameplay and less immoraly attacking against low-level chars in pvp-actions, the balancing would be quite fine! In fact the eve-game has much more play depth as no different one, but we cannot force intelligence stop, the one have them others not.
"Hero-clung size and fameful superiority has only the player, who looks for himself its-same..."
In this sense...greetings
"Argumentum balinicum..." |
Phoibos
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Posted - 2003.11.13 13:52:00 -
[15]
The devs have stated that they are working hard on the lag issue. Hopefully this will be solved not to far away.
/Phoibos
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Einheriar Ulrich
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Posted - 2003.11.13 21:05:00 -
[16]
without pvp, this game would be dead.
Without risk no rewards, just a mining trading npc hunting simulator,, itsa that fun ?
Well learn the flow of the game stay informed, and you may still live, in 0.0 space.
So Say I. Einheriar Ulrich of the Bloodline of Einheriar.
****Minion Of VOTF****
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Honeymoon
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Posted - 2003.11.14 14:06:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Honeymoon on 14/11/2003 14:08:19
This aspect witnesses from very high intelligence and mental distance vision. CCP developed naturally a game, goes with it primarily therefore for other player in antisocial play behavior the play passport facilitating. The awkward minimization of play passport and play risk to this level to reduce, is there naturally exactly contents, which the reasonable community-oriented players will understand easily immediately.
These should naturally rather set themselves before single players of plays, so that you continue to disturb other not when their driving. Thus in the course of the time the problem will then separate from, where no more players are, there are Playerkillers then also redundant! Thus would have this you own play, unfortunately is missing to you then probably any motivation. But can then you begin you mutually with low instincts the life to make difficult. In this sense...
"Carpe diem..." |
kaliente
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Posted - 2003.11.18 10:10:00 -
[18]
Quote:
Edited by: Honeymoon on 14/11/2003 14:08:19
This aspect witnesses from very high intelligence and mental distance vision. CCP developed naturally a game, goes with it primarily therefore for other player in antisocial play behavior the play passport facilitating. The awkward minimization of play passport and play risk to this level to reduce, is there naturally exactly contents, which the reasonable community-oriented players will understand easily immediately.
These should naturally rather set themselves before single players of plays, so that you continue to disturb other not when their driving. Thus in the course of the time the problem will then separate from, where no more players are, there are Playerkillers then also redundant! Thus would have this you own play, unfortunately is missing to you then probably any motivation. But can then you begin you mutually with low instincts the life to make difficult. In this sense...
(translation) "im here to sound smart...please overlook my poor grammer, even though i have nothing of importaince to say...oops...i didnt mean to take all that acid"
once again....a nice posting full of..blah blah.....blah blah im smart you are inferior blah blah
Quote:
Ask not whom the bell tolls for, it tolls for ye'
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Cristobal
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Posted - 2003.11.18 16:49:00 -
[19]
Quote:
Edited by: Honeymoon on 14/11/2003 14:08:19
This aspect witnesses from very high intelligence and mental distance vision. CCP developed naturally a game, goes with it primarily therefore for other player in antisocial play behavior the play passport facilitating. The awkward minimization of play passport and play risk to this level to reduce, is there naturally exactly contents, which the reasonable community-oriented players will understand easily immediately.
These should naturally rather set themselves before single players of plays, so that you continue to disturb other not when their driving. Thus in the course of the time the problem will then separate from, where no more players are, there are Playerkillers then also redundant! Thus would have this you own play, unfortunately is missing to you then probably any motivation. But can then you begin you mutually with low instincts the life to make difficult. In this sense...
Utter and complete nonsense... Excuse me, so sorry, the words of a politician is far more accurate. |
Jelerak
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Posted - 2003.11.19 06:36:00 -
[20]
You mean, you didn't understand Honeymoon's post?
How sad. It's among the most wonderful things I've had the pleasure of reading in many days.
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Eayon
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Posted - 2003.11.20 21:23:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Eayon on 21/11/2003 10:30:40
Edited by: Eayon on 21/11/2003 10:28:11
Honeymoon's post may have been nonsensical garbage but at least she has the excuse of not knowing English that well and having to use an online translater unlike most people who like to post their inane gibberings on these forums.
________________________________
"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." - George Orwell |
NGRU Rix
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Posted - 2003.11.21 13:46:00 -
[22]
I've have been in my share of PvP encounters, hunts and such and I gotta tell ya. Getting an actual fight going can be a real pain in the butt. Before I was involved in these things, I thought the pirates and the PK's had it pretty easy in Eve. I was pretty much wrong on that one, notice I said pretty much and not completely.
It's too easy to run away. It's too easy to go away and never be found. Basically, if you try to attack someone and they don't want to fight, they ain't much you can do to make them fight. Unless, of course, they weren't paying attention in the first place and you got the drop on them.
Lag is a different issue, seen it, never fallen victim to it becuase I read the map I look before I jump. Basically, if you use your head and pay attention to the system you are in and then map, you should be able to go anywhere without problems.
Security in Empire space needs to be tweaked tho, there's no reason someone should be able to camp in a system any higher than .2 without a definitely violent Police response eventually showing up.
Anyone who camps in .4 right next to a 1.0, so they can kill noobs, is ghey as all get out and needs to get a grip.
Oh yeah - read the map and don't be l33ching **** when you are playing. I have yet to be hit by JIP lag issues.
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