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Warp to 0km - a summary analysis

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Novan Leon Goat Raiders	Posted - 2006.11.09 22:37:00 - [31] Originally by: Araxmas A corp mate said they tested a random warp for RMR and they made it so that there was a warp to 0km but it was a random distance between 0-15km. Personally i would prefer that to warp to 0km. Then people would just start making instas again; unless CCP disables them this will be the case no matter what you do.
Imhotep Khem Total Mayhem.	Posted - 2006.11.09 22:40:00 - [32] 0km is a good first step. Second step will be to actually FIX bubbles so they can stop the warp ins. Maybe double them in size. If your too lazy to buy a bubble then STFU. For the other side of the gate we have interdictors. ____ "If your not dyin' your not tryin'." "Are you prepared to go all the way, Alexi?" DuGalle
Araxmas Caldari Imperial Space Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.09 22:42:00 - [33] Originally by: Novan Leon Originally by: Araxmas A corp mate said they tested a random warp for RMR and they made it so that there was a warp to 0km but it was a random distance between 0-15km. Personally i would prefer that to warp to 0km. Then people would just start making instas again; unless CCP disables them this will be the case no matter what you do. Heh ah forgot to mention that i would prefer the random warp WITH the removal of bm's. My bad --------
Ki An Gallente Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille Tre Kroner	Posted - 2006.11.09 22:45:00 - [34] Originally by: Game Set For the camp that thinks longer travel times and a more tedius experience somehow makes this game "better" I really have no idea what to say. What's your response to the guy who has two hours to play a night and has to jump 15 systems without a station to get decent rats? Well, my response is going to come off as rather selfish, but bear in mind that I do not have overly much time to play, nor do I use instas a lot, and still manage to travel quite a bit. My response would be that EVE should not cater to everyone, and that if someone feel he/she cannot have fun in the game if he has to fly 15km per jump then I would think it's sad that he won't enjoy the game. I really do believe that EVE as a game would be better off without instas or warp-to-0, but that's just me. CCP do as they wish, and I'm gonna keep playing, adapt and hope that the next change will be in a direction I would like the game to take. We can discuss this until the cows come home. A lot of people like this change. Some don't. I am the latter. Hopefully the majority will be right. /Ki
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2006.11.09 22:50:00 - [35] I have to say that I agree with the OP (His second post ) completely. I don't like instas, and I don't like to use them. I do use the small amount of instas I have, because... well... it's easier. I don't want it to be easier (in the big picture), but I'm lazy, as are most others." Really this point about speed is redundant, I mean might as well argue that nanofibers, and AB's and MWD should be removed because they make eve smaller, and all you to get around faster, easier and safer... Look big slow ships will still be big and slow, they take longer to align and initiate warp period, a good buble is right on the gate so your dead the moment you load in there is no warping to a belt then to a gate your caught your done, unless you can mwd out of the bubble first, most every single arguement against warp to 0km is meaningless, as we already do it with BM's the difference is right now it is a major dividing factor among the playerbase, and it shouldn t be. With warp to 0km all will have inst'a and the field will be even.... There is the issue however, there is a segment of players who do not want even, they want to retain there advantage ( smart thing to want but doesnt justify your position) so even though anyone with commen sense can see this truly doesnt change the game play beyond making insta's more accessible for the entire playbase, agenda driven people keep presenting invalid points over and over to try to hold onto thier advantage of having insta's. End of story really nothing left to discuss. CCP will make the decision and allowing warp to 0km will be very good for eve, eve truly needs a shake up and that will take several new designs to the system. PVP sucks, and 95% or more is nothing but a camp fest of spawn points (gates and stations) this is CCP's challenge to make the needed changes to eve to take pvp away from spawn camping gate camping etc.
Captain Ruin	Posted - 2006.11.09 22:52:00 - [36] I am against Warp to 0, but I can see how it would also bring about changes that adversly effect one of the vibes that make the game so attractive to me: The sheer size of the universe. Removing Bookmarks entirely would be a hinderance to this cause - as we would even be more limited in the amount of space that we could interact in. If they could restrict bookmarks from being accessed if they are within 200km of gates and stations, that would be a viable solution for me. That would bring forth the problem of gate-camping/sniping being the ultimate battleground, or as will be more likely than not, the ultimate gank-fest. For solo players and small corps, the risk in traveling in low-sec would be tremendous. In fact, almost suicidal. Accessing a 0.0 system, with any population, would definately be suicidal. Of course, CCP could simply add extraordinarily powerful sentries to every gate, but that would destroy any kind of combat around gates entirely - which is probably not a good thing. I want casual players, who don't want to pay homage to an alliance or large corp, to be a playable option in Eve. My fears with a Warp to 15 Only option, is that travel for small corps/solo players will be limited only to Empire space - due to not having the firepower to risk running into a gatecamp. Or something like that.
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2006.11.09 22:55:00 - [37] "Well, my response is going to come off as rather selfish, but bear in mind that I do not have overly much time to play, nor do I use instas a lot, and still manage to travel quite a bit. My response would be that EVE should not cater to everyone, and that if someone feel he/she cannot have fun in the game if he has to fly 15km per jump then I would think it's sad that he won't enjoy the game. I really do believe that EVE as a game would be better off without instas or warp-to-0, but that's just me." Hate to keep disagreeing with you, but you're right your view is selfish and therefore should carry little weight, i see warp to 0km as again putting the choice in players hands, you like big long trips don't warp to 15 heck warp to 100km ( odd i never see any of you eve needs to feel big choosing to warp to 100km do we?), if you do not you warp to 0km, again turns out this is 100% nothing different than we currently have, you can either choose to tolerate 15km, or use BM's and warp to 0km...) Keep in mind oringally you could warp to like 3km of the gate, it was later changed to 15km, now we might move back to how the game was originally designed....IE 15km isnt the defacto distance eve started with.
Michayel Lyon Contention Inc	Posted - 2006.11.09 22:59:00 - [38] Originally by: hydraSlav BM lag this, BM lag that.... ... Let's clarify. Exactly what lag do BMs cause? Do they lag simply by being there? No. They "lag" when people copy them. So is it the BMs that lag? Or the process of copying them that lags? Remove all copying of BMs. Problem solved. If someone needs BMs, they can go and make them themselves. My first months into the game, i made my own BMs for all my routes (i didn't have the money to buy any, nor had anyone to give me a set) Definitely, older playes that already have them will have an advantage over newer people that don't. But hey, older players have more SP, older players have more money, older players for more friend, older players have more experience. Older players always have an advantage over newer players, that's a given. Apparently, every time you enter a new system there is some bookmark processing as well. Since bookmarks are stored server-side, this cause some lag too. Perhaps not as much lag as copying bookmarks, but still. --- Lasiverin Dark > Is everyone here allied? Red Knight > we are allied by our zombie like ability to ***** missions
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2006.11.09 23:07:00 - [39] "You're over exagerating. I assume you've been using instas for a while? I've never used them and I spend 90% of my time in 0.0. I've never found not-having instas game-ruining by any stretch of the imagination." Sure sit in your own alliance space, never travel a hostile pipe to empire, and always travel with alliance/corp gangs and your right traveling around 0.0 you don't need insta's, but your the one guilty of exxagerating, because we all know the circumstances these come into play and in those circumstances your screwed without inst'as, common sense already tells everyone traveling through 9 empty 0.0 systems doesnt require insta's
Xazier Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.11.09 23:08:00 - [40] alright guys im ending this arguement These are the reasons why this is the best idea ever. A. less lag THIS IS KEY! B. warp bubbles are *** use interdictors if you don't have an interdictor get some skills please. DICTORS CATCH EVERYTHING FROM EVERY ANGLE! C. everyone has istas..if they don't they're morons and should die. D. even if they get through...YOU CAN CATCH THEM ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE GATE after they jump through! unless they're frigates which really don't cause much damage unless there is mass quantities E. the only people that suffer from this are those **** pirates in .4 - .1 space and if they really want to pvp go to 0.0 you fools. F. Also there is the placement of turrets in 0.0 from my understanding...if you have 3 stations in the constellation and then put up POS you can have turrets on gate if i understand right and that will take care of "protecting" your space. Also if you can't get some buddies together and fight off some guys that are trying to run around in your space...you shouldn't have 0.0 in the first place. G. stop whining it makes things easier, and more fun becuz it won't take 3 hours to cross empire anymore.. H. and i've been on the test server if you put on autopilot it warps you to 15km not 0 you can only warp to 0 if you do it manually every jump so you pirates might be able to catch some lazy morons in .4 I. and finally the lag will be cut in half by this so stop whining this is for the better.
Ki An Gallente Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille Tre Kroner	Posted - 2006.11.09 23:08:00 - [41] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 snip That's more or less my point. I would like travel to take a long time. I like that kind of game. Apparently most others don't, and I truly hope they are right, because if CCP implements this and it has the adverse effects I think it might have, EVE will die just a little bit quicker. On the other hand, the current situation is out of hand and change is sorely needed. I bow down to the wisdom of CCP in this case. If they chose to implement warp-to-0, I will not whine about it and instead try to make the game my own again. Anyway, having this discussion is good, because even though CCP are a smart bunch of people (just about done kissing butt here) they are not omnipotent, and perhaps have not thought of all the pro's and con's about a pending change in the game system. /Ki
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Nova Republic	Posted - 2006.11.09 23:09:00 - [42] Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 09/11/2006 23:10:11 Originally by: Novan Leon I would much MUCH rather prefer an alternative solution such as the removal of all insta's AND no warp-to-0km option; this is, after all, the way the game was meant to be played, is it not? I just checked again. It's not. Insta bookmarks, according to the Player Guide on this very site, separates advanced players from novices. It still says that even today, in the section where new players are taught how to make instas. Read it. It's hard to argue that this is not the way the game was meant to be played, when the official Player Guide still instructs otherwise, wouldn't you agree? -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Novan Leon Goat Raiders	Posted - 2006.11.09 23:11:00 - [43] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 Really this point about speed is redundant, I mean might as well argue that nanofibers, and AB's and MWD should be removed because they make eve smaller, and all you to get around faster, easier and safer... But at a sacrifice. I have no problem if you fit your ship for fast travel, but after you add warp-to-0km EVERY ship can travel fast, then there will be no reason for all those modules you speak of. Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 Look big slow ships will still be big and slow, they take longer to align and initiate warp period, a good buble is right on the gate so your dead the moment you load in there is no warping to a belt then to a gate your caught your done, unless you can mwd out of the bubble first, most every single arguement against warp to 0km is meaningless, as we already do it with BM's the difference is right now it is a major dividing factor among the playerbase, and it shouldn t be. With warp to 0km all will have inst'a and the field will be even.... There is the issue however, there is a segment of players who do not want even, they want to retain there advantage ( smart thing to want but doesnt justify your position) so even though anyone with commen sense can see this truly doesnt change the game play beyond making insta's more accessible for the entire playbase, agenda driven people keep presenting invalid points over and over to try to hold onto thier advantage of having insta's. End of story really nothing left to discuss. CCP will make the decision and allowing warp to 0km will be very good for eve, eve truly needs a shake up and that will take several new designs to the system. PVP sucks, and 95% or more is nothing but a camp fest of spawn points (gates and stations) this is CCP's challenge to make the needed changes to eve to take pvp away from spawn camping gate camping etc. Actually, I'd love to see gates go away completely... but that's a whole new can of worms...
Novan Leon Goat Raiders	Posted - 2006.11.09 23:13:00 - [44] Originally by: Guillame Herschel Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 09/11/2006 23:10:11 Originally by: Novan Leon I would much MUCH rather prefer an alternative solution such as the removal of all insta's AND no warp-to-0km option; this is, after all, the way the game was meant to be played, is it not? I just checked again. It's not. Insta bookmarks, according to the Player Guide on this very site, separates advanced players from novices. It still says that even today, in the section where new players are taught how to make instas. Read it. It's hard to argue that this is not the way the game was meant to be played, when the official Player Guide still instructs otherwise, wouldn't you agree? Tough to argue with this; however, is this CCP's official stance or just a recommendation by whoever wrote the guide? I dunno, I do know that CCP never intended it to get this out of hand.
Pesky LaRue Minmatar L.O.S.T. Foundation	Posted - 2006.11.09 23:23:00 - [45] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 snip That's more or less my point. I would like travel to take a long time. I like that kind of game. Apparently most others don't, and I truly hope they are right, because if CCP implements this and it has the adverse effects I think it might have, EVE will die just a little bit quicker. I sincerely don't mean this as a flame, but why do you want LONG travel times? what exactly is it that you enjoy? Do you like looking at the screen as your ship moves towards a gate, or do you like the effects as you go into warp, or is it that you like to browse the web as you travel? i dunno, i've been playing EVE a long time and frankly, while i love the size & complexity of the universe, i get NOTHING from the 'dead time' that comes with travelling. taking a barge across 20 jumps without insta's is, IMO, a mind-numbingly boring experience and i'm genuinely curious as to why you (or anyone else) likes the 'dead time' of travel This message came from the Minmatar Messiah, accept no imitations Pesky LaRue, Minmatar Messiah Bringing Salvation To Your System Soon! ++ PRAY FOR PESKY ++
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Nova Republic	Posted - 2006.11.09 23:23:00 - [46] Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn yea, i was talking about placing the bubbles say, 40km from the gate, to pull people away from gate. You need to do this for the faster ships. Having all approaches in some systems covered in this way would be almost impossible, some gates are surrounded by many warpable objects. It's totally impossible because you can prepare ahead of time and fly to the next grid in a fast MWD T1 frigate in about 5-10 minutes. This allows you to make a pre-insta bookmark from which to insta-jump to the gate from any angle at all, away from being aligned with any warpable object. For most gates, the effort isn't worth it, but for heavily camped choke points, it is. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Ki An Gallente Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille Tre Kroner	Posted - 2006.11.09 23:27:00 - [47] Originally by: Pesky LaRue Originally by: Ki An snip I sincerely don't mean this as a flame, but why do you want LONG travel times? what exactly is it that you enjoy? Do you like looking at the screen as your ship moves towards a gate, or do you like the effects as you go into warp, or is it that you like to browse the web as you travel? i dunno, i've been playing EVE a long time and frankly, while i love the size & complexity of the universe, i get NOTHING from the 'dead time' that comes with travelling. taking a barge across 20 jumps without insta's is, IMO, a mind-numbingly boring experience and i'm genuinely curious as to why you (or anyone else) likes the 'dead time' of travel It's completely a matter of immersion for me. I like to play this game more as a sim than a MMO. I like to immagine the logistics of space-flight and the vast reaches of space. If that is cut short due to dramatically lessened travel-times, it will take away some of that for me. It has nothing to do with me enjoying boring myself or others to tears. It's just about immersion and feel. /Ki
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Nova Republic	Posted - 2006.11.09 23:28:00 - [48] Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 09/11/2006 23:29:18 Originally by: Pesky LaRue i dunno, i've been playing EVE a long time and frankly, while i love the size & complexity of the universe, i get NOTHING from the 'dead time' that comes with travelling. QFT. If travel times are to be long, let ships travel on autopilot while the player is logged off the same way skills train. There is nothing edifying or entertaining about watching the gate models change from Gal to Amarr to Minmatar to Caldari as one traverses EVE. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
zeKzn Empire of Destiny	Posted - 2006.11.09 23:38:00 - [49] Originally by: Skraelingz Tell me you auto to a gate every time right? wrong you use isntas just like eeeeveryone else does. Wrong. I do go through 0.0 with warp to 15, I also fully expect to arrive back at my cloning station, but its fun anyway. my thoughts are my own and do not represent the thoughts of my corp
Nerf Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.10 00:00:00 - [50] Originally by: Skraelingz Originally by: Novan Leon Edited by: Novan Leon on 09/11/2006 20:05:55 I would much MUCH rather prefer an alternative solution such as the removal of all insta's AND no warp-to-0km option; this is, after all, the way the game was meant to be played, is it not? What you mean dying everytime you try to get past a camp and taking hours upon hours to jump any distance.... sure! Yes. Signature graphic removed - please email us to find out why (include a link to the graphic in question) - Jacques([email protected])
Fortior STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.10 00:13:00 - [51] I'd just like to point out that there seems to be Large Warp Bubbles on SiSi. 45 km radius. That's pretty big I'd say. Big enough though?
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.10 00:18:00 - [52] I am against Warp to 0km. If CCP insists Warp to 0km, please give me my Jump to X. --------- Faction Warfare Begins Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.10 00:26:00 - [53] Originally by: Pesky LaRue I sincerely don't mean this as a flame, but why do you want LONG travel times? what exactly is it that you enjoy? Do you like looking at the screen as your ship moves towards a gate, or do you like the effects as you go into warp, or is it that you like to browse the web as you travel? EvE is a game of planning. Take that away, and EvE is counterstrike in space. What is next, cheap T2s? EvE today - Planning + Knowledge of in-game mechanics + Risk = Win --------- Faction Warfare Begins Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.10 00:27:00 - [54] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 10/11/2006 00:29:12 Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 Hate to keep disagreeing with you, but you're right your view is selfish and therefore should carry little weight, i see warp to 0km as again putting the choice in players hands, As if your views are humble. --------- Faction Warfare Begins Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
James Duar Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.11.10 00:41:00 - [55] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I am against Warp to 0km. If CCP insists Warp to 0km, please give me my Jump to X. I don't get it. Oh wait, I do, but it still seems pretty irrelevant. Conversely it would be great if we could have Warp to these coordinates. --- Recently returned from vacation on a sunny planet in 0.0. Guess which one!
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.10 00:54:00 - [56] as i always see the "but it removes stress from the DB" argument regarding warp to 0km to clarify this: warp to 0km & no instas available (no bms in a 100km sphere around a gate) - removes stress from the database - makes travelling a no-brainer warp to 15km (or 10km or any other distance) & no instas available - removes stress from the database - makes travelling a task that needs forethought and preparation there's no difference regarding database strain in both options so it boils down to the following: the question is not if we should remove strain of the DB - as itHAS TO (and WILL) happen, the question is - should EVE be a challenging game .. or not?? ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.10 01:34:00 - [57] Warp to 5km or 7.5km is better in my opinion. Pilots can fit MWDs if they want to insta. --------- Faction Warfare Begins Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Allen Deckard Gallente WTB Supplies	Posted - 2006.11.10 02:56:00 - [58] Originally by: Novan Leon Edited by: Novan Leon on 09/11/2006 22:35:44 I don't think the discussion is whether or not the current system is good or not (it isn't). It's whether instas should effectively be made a standard part of the game and given to everyone, or whether we should keep (revert back to) the original intended method of travel for everyone. I'm for the latter, but please, if you DO add warp-to-0km, AT LEAST don't allow warp-to-0km for stations (aka. instadocking). I keep reading about how horrable it will be for docking. I guess I dont understand unless you have never used the system before and dont have ANY instas for there instas for docking are the easiest instas to make in the game with the new size of the station it's just undock bm location and insta insta from any direction. Now if the logic of no insta dockin was for the old docks then maybe your insta had to be made from certain directions but not now I dont get the arguement.
Allen Deckard Gallente WTB Supplies	Posted - 2006.11.10 02:59:00 - [59] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 "Well, my response is going to come off as rather selfish, but bear in mind that I do not have overly much time to play, nor do I use instas a lot, and still manage to travel quite a bit. My response would be that EVE should not cater to everyone, and that if someone feel he/she cannot have fun in the game if he has to fly 15km per jump then I would think it's sad that he won't enjoy the game. I really do believe that EVE as a game would be better off without instas or warp-to-0, but that's just me." To remove instas all together would indeed make this a very dull game. What a waste of an enormous amount of space. How would you use any space that is located between gates belts docks for anything?
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2006.11.10 03:19:00 - [60] "That's more or less my point. I would like travel to take a long time. I like that kind of game. Apparently most others don't, and I truly hope they are right, because if CCP implements this and it has the adverse effects I think it might have, EVE will die just a little bit quicker." You might be right who knows, but i am of the other opinion this is a long LONG needed change, I am not sure how you play eve but eve already feels HUGe to me, the fact there are no short cuts to get to the "othersides" makes travel in eve painful, I am at point x i need 30 jumps to point y, even with instas this is a very long time just to travel. I will say that if the BM's are truly as big of a burden as they say CCP will gain far more people than they will loose with this change as I beielve ccp has lost ALOT of people to the very poor performance of the server over the last 6 months.

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