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Melody Axon AA and MA 1	Posted - 2015.05.12 01:36:21 - [1] - Quote Yes, I posted this on reddit. Yes I expect to receive negative feedback, but I'm hoping that maybe, just maybe, on the EVE-forums I might actually get some actual reasons why this is a bad idea. And if this has already been proposed, I am sorry. So, with this introduction out of the way, onto the show. There are always people going on about how certain ships are OP and the Gila is one of the ones that is always brought up. I've been playing around with some EFT fits for different ships, and when coming to the Gila I noticed something that I feel could be changed for a subtle, but possibly effective, nerf on the Gila. The drone bay. The Worm gets 2.5 flights of bonused drones (25 m3/10 m3) The Rattlesnake gets 3.5 flights of bonused drones (175 m3/50 m3) The Gila, this apparently OP cruiser, gets FIVE flights of bonused drones (100 m3/20 m3). So, denizens of the EVE forums. Do you think a small nerf in a reduction of the drone bay of the Gila to 60 m3 (giving 3 flights of bonused drones, to bring it in line between the Worm (frigate) and Rattlesnake (BS) would bring the Gila down a little bit in its dominance? I personally feel it would be a good change, as it would still allow for a variety of drones to be carried along, while also increasing the viability of actually shooting down the Gila's drones to reduce the incoming damage. So, thoughts?
James Baboli Ferrous Infernum 653	Posted - 2015.05.12 01:42:14 - [2] - Quote IMO, great. Would prefer to take it to 70, thus it has at most 3.5 flights of the biggest it can use, or 2.5 and a full flight of lights. Talking more, Flying crazier, And drinking more Making battleships worth the warp
Melody Axon AA and MA 2	Posted - 2015.05.12 01:57:00 - [3] - Quote James Baboli wrote: IMO, great. Would prefer to take it to 70, thus it has at most 3.5 flights of the biggest it can use, or 2.5 and a full flight of lights. Yeah, that makes sense. I was thinking somewhere between 50 and 70, 60 just made sense to me because it's halfway between the frigate and BS in terms of bonused flights ;)
Iroquoiss Pliskin Hedion University Amarr Empire 560	Posted - 2015.05.12 02:04:02 - [4] - Quote Sapported. Grave inconsistency. // Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept // Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
Onslaughtor Occult National Security Phoenix Naval Systems 130	Posted - 2015.05.12 03:04:44 - [5] - Quote Agreed. It would be a nice small balance that would see the ship be less powerful to clever or appropriately prepared pilots.
The Primary Target It's All Ogre Now. 2	Posted - 2015.05.12 05:48:47 - [6] - Quote A small and subtle change that could have a very large effect on how the ship is flown. The drones are already incredibly hard to kill just based on raw HP (Remember that the HP increase also increases the shield's passive recharge strength, and now that caldari drone's aren't ****, they are able to tank some serious smartbomb damage and put out some good damage while they do it.). So, I feel that a change that forces pilots to put more thought into the drones they want to bring, and in how they use those drones that they do, is good. The drone bay of 70 sounds good to me, it puts the gila almost in line with the other two but also creates that tactical choice of more mediums or a flight of unbonused lights or ec-300s.
Samillian Angry Mustellid The Periphery 777	Posted - 2015.05.12 08:32:13 - [7] - Quote Seems reasonable. NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
FireFrenzy Satan's Unicorns 368	Posted - 2015.05.12 08:53:40 - [8] - Quote seems reasonable!
Melody Axon AA and MA 5	Posted - 2015.05.12 11:13:54 - [9] - Quote Thanks for the constructive ideas and support guys, I feel like this would be a small yet effective change to the Gila that would make engaging one more viable, and force a medium of choice onto the Gila pilot instead of them just being able to bring everything to the party. :)
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1157	Posted - 2015.05.12 12:45:44 - [10] - Quote wouldn't stop it being OP though.. also think the uber drone thing is a silly gimmick that just makes them more OP than actually add any gameplay, also allows easy use of expensive drones... until gila doesn't do more dps (650 ish) or tank better than a bc.. then they will always be OP Tech 3's need to be multi-role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists. ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist, nerf sentries, -3 slots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster eagle worth using
Frostys Virpio The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 1780	Posted - 2015.05.12 12:50:28 - [11] - Quote Harvey James wrote: wouldn't stop it being OP though.. also think the uber drone thing is a silly gimmick that just makes them more OP than actually add any gameplay, also allows easy use of expensive drones... until gila doesn't do more dps (650 ish) or tank better than a bc.. then they will always be OP The gila's drones are not as ridic when killing them is a viable option. Currently, you have to go through so many of them to declaw it it's absurd.
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1157	Posted - 2015.05.12 13:11:40 - [12] - Quote i think the normal 10% medium drone damage/HP on 5 drones is the better choice with a set of spares. Tech 3's need to be multi-role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists. ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist, nerf sentries, -3 slots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster eagle worth using
Ncc 1709 Fusion Enterprises Ltd Shadow of xXDEATHXx 193	Posted - 2015.05.12 14:05:00 - [13] - Quote +1 so many times when fighting a gila you end up just shooting wave after wave of drones cut the op excess number down and people will have to look after their drones instead of throwing them at people in a steady stream of hp's
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 669	Posted - 2015.05.12 14:07:10 - [14] - Quote How about giving the Rattlesnake a bigger dronebay instead of complaining about pirate ships. Not supported. Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
Iroquoiss Pliskin Hedion University Amarr Empire 566	Posted - 2015.05.12 15:56:58 - [15] - Quote elitatwo wrote: How about giving the Rattlesnake a bigger dronebay instead of complaining about pirate ships. Not supported. Drone mafia is operating on these forums. Be vigilant, people. // Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept // Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
James Baboli Ferrous Infernum 662	Posted - 2015.05.12 15:58:52 - [16] - Quote Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote: elitatwo wrote: How about giving the Rattlesnake a bigger dronebay instead of complaining about pirate ships. Not supported. Drone mafia is operating on these forums. Be vigilant, people. Vigilants kill gila drones like blap blap. Talking more, Flying crazier, And drinking more Making battleships worth the warp
motie one Secret Passage 15	Posted - 2015.05.12 19:52:01 - [17] - Quote No not supported. Sorry you are having problems fighting this ship, but trying alternative tactics may help. Different ships with different flavours is a great design, nerfing them all down to a flavourless gruel is not. Or do you believe that missile ships should only be able to carry three reloads too? After all do you think that ships spewing neverending streams of missiles are overpowered for PVP? No?
Rivr Luzade Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi 1414	Posted - 2015.05.12 20:06:21 - [18] - Quote motie one wrote: Try fighting the ship and not the weapon, sorry if you have to think differently from fighting other drone boats. In case of drone ships, fighting the weapon is the easiest way to fight the ship. I trust you know that. However, having fought against a pair of unsupported Gilas just recently, I their damage is indeed staggering but their tank is all overwhelming. On the other hand, having a cruiser with larger drone hold for such beasts of drones (due to ship bonuses) than Battleships is really off. These Guristas ships are supposed to have a very limited number of drones in their holds and the Gila kind of ignores that pattern. Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
Tiddle Jr Galvanized Inc. 177	Posted - 2015.05.12 21:35:37 - [19] - Quote 75m3 5 mediums + 5 smalls. Not sure what i'm doing here since don't fly Gurista's ships.
Alexis Nightwish 185	Posted - 2015.05.12 21:41:16 - [20] - Quote I've said before that drone cruisers (not really the Gila, but it's bonuses are too high IMO) have way too much bandwidth, but CCP loves em so we'll never see this fixed. Tristan: 25mb Algos: 35mb <-- Why this isn't 40mb, I don't know VNI/Ishtar: 125mb <--- WTF!? Myrmidon: 100mb Dominix/Armageddon: 125mb <-- why only here do Amarr compare to Gallente in bandwidth, I don't know CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge EVE Online's "I win!" Button
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 11	Posted - 2015.05.13 00:32:59 - [21] - Quote Hmmp, and hear I was wondering when the Gila was gonna get targeted for being slightly OP. I figured once the Ishtar gets hammered then the Gila would be next.....was I right? The only real problem with the Gila is that a new pilot can train into one within 4 months doing 600ish dps with just the drones and with 2 of these can crush any Lev 4 mission with little difficulty (yes including blockade). Since they are so easy to train into combined with good dps + solid tank + great range for a cruiser hull (70km with 1 DLA) , I knew it was gonna be a matter of time before some gang decides to amass these ships in fleets and start terrorizing New Eden. But still, compared to the Othrus, is the Gila really that OP. I mean once you kill off the drones (which can be done easily with a web) the ship is as good as dead unlike the Othrus. Also unlike the Othrus it doesn't have the speed to kite, can't fit a MMJD and since it can only use 2 two Med drones simultaneously , targeting, catching and killing the drones isn't as time consuming as when having to kill 5 drones. But having a 100m3 drone bay does make it slightly OP so I propose to dropping one flight of the drone bay down to 80m3.
Iroquoiss Pliskin Hedion University Amarr Empire 579	Posted - 2015.05.13 01:49:50 - [22] - Quote Alexis Nightwish wrote: I've said before that drone cruisers (not really the Gila, but it's bonuses are too high IMO) have way too much bandwidth, but CCP loves em so we'll never see this fixed. Tristan: 25mb Algos: 35mb <-- Why this isn't 40mb, I don't know VNI/Ishtar: 125mb <--- WTF!? Myrmidon: 100mb Dominix/Armageddon: 125mb <-- why only here do Amarr compare to Gallente in bandwidth, I don't know See sig for PvP damage. Light blue is drones. // Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept // Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
Phaade Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF 343	Posted - 2015.05.13 04:35:57 - [23] - Quote elitatwo wrote: How about giving the Rattlesnake a bigger dronebay instead of complaining about pirate ships. Not supported. Are you aware of what you type before you hit post? I feel most times you are not. Supported OP.
Phaade Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF 343	Posted - 2015.05.13 04:37:26 - [24] - Quote Alexis Nightwish wrote: I've said before that drone cruisers (not really the Gila, but it's bonuses are too high IMO) have way too much bandwidth, but CCP loves em so we'll never see this fixed. Tristan: 25mb Algos: 35mb <-- Why this isn't 40mb, I don't know VNI/Ishtar: 125mb <--- WTF!? Myrmidon: 100mb Dominix/Armageddon: 125mb <-- why only here do Amarr compare to Gallente in bandwidth, I don't know CCP logic brah
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 11	Posted - 2015.05.13 04:44:10 - [25] - Quote motie one wrote: No not supported. Sorry you are having problems fighting this ship, but trying alternative tactics may help. Different ships with different flavours is a great design, nerfing them all down to a flavourless gruel is not. Or do you believe that missile ships should only be able to carry three reloads too? After all do you think that ships spewing neverending streams of missiles are overpowered for PVP? No? Try fighting the ship and not the weapon, sorry if you have to think differently from fighting other drone boats. Besides, with an appropriate weapon system, Gila drones are just more gristly meat to the grinder. Agreed. The drones will almost always be primaried , not the ship itself and with only 3 flights of drones even more so. With 4-5 flights of drones it forces pilots to make a choice to either primary the drones or the ship hull itself.
Juan Mileghere Incident Command Southern Star Dominion 26	Posted - 2015.05.13 07:12:04 - [26] - Quote Reasonable +1 Blobbing Explained
motie one Secret Passage 16	Posted - 2015.05.13 08:25:27 - [27] - Quote Daniela Doran wrote: Hmmp, and hear I was wondering when the Gila was gonna get targeted for being slightly OP. I figured once the Ishtar gets hammered then the Gila would be next.....was I right? The only real problem with the Gila is that a new pilot can train into one within 4 months doing 600ish dps with just the drones and with 2 of these can crush any Lev 4 mission with little difficulty (yes including blockade). Since they are so easy to train into combined with good dps + solid tank + great range for a cruiser hull (70km with 1 DLA) , I knew it was gonna be a matter of time before some gang decides to amass these ships in fleets and start terrorizing New Eden. But still, compared to the Othrus, is the Gila really that OP. I mean once you kill off the drones (which can be done easily with a web) the ship is as good as dead unlike the Othrus. Also unlike the Othrus it doesn't have the speed to kite, can't fit a MMJD and since it can only use 2 two Med drones simultaneously , targeting, catching and killing the drones isn't as time consuming as when having to kill 5 drones. But having a 100m3 drone bay does make it slightly OP so I propose to dropping one flight of the drone bay down to 80m3. IF one wished to lower the power of the Gila, and that is a very strong IF, and wished it to carry no more than four flights of medium drones, one COULD reduce the drone bay to 85 to allow three flights of mediums plus 5 small unbonused utility drones (or 4 full flights). However, the gila can be defanged quite nicely with the use of target painters and webs and appropriate weapons. One is not committed to only using one ship to accomplish this at a time. In small gang, having a gila killer pair, is quite doable, and results in dead, surprised, Gilas. It is a strong ship in a 1-1. Leaping on it in an unplanned and ill considered manner is MEANT to not end well. Tl;Dr the Gila is a ship to be treated with respect as an enemy, requiring different tactics to overpower, This means just using unthinking brute force will often result in your destruction.
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 12	Posted - 2015.05.13 10:39:30 - [28] - Quote motie one wrote: Daniela Doran wrote: Hmmp, and hear I was wondering when the Gila was gonna get targeted for being slightly OP. I figured once the Ishtar gets hammered then the Gila would be next.....was I right? The only real problem with the Gila is that a new pilot can train into one within 4 months doing 600ish dps with just the drones and with 2 of these can crush any Lev 4 mission with little difficulty (yes including blockade). Since they are so easy to train into combined with good dps + solid tank + great range for a cruiser hull (70km with 1 DLA) , I knew it was gonna be a matter of time before some gang decides to amass these ships in fleets and start terrorizing New Eden. But still, compared to the Othrus, is the Gila really that OP. I mean once you kill off the drones (which can be done easily with a web) the ship is as good as dead unlike the Othrus. Also unlike the Othrus it doesn't have the speed to kite, can't fit a MMJD and since it can only use 2 two Med drones simultaneously , targeting, catching and killing the drones isn't as time consuming as when having to kill 5 drones. But having a 100m3 drone bay does make it slightly OP so I propose to dropping one flight of the drone bay down to 80m3. IF one wished to lower the power of the Gila, and that is a very strong IF, and wished it to carry no more than four flights of medium drones, one COULD reduce the drone bay to 85 to allow three flights of mediums plus 5 small unbonused utility drones (or 4 full flights). However, the gila can be defanged quite nicely with the use of target painters and webs and appropriate weapons. One is not committed to only using one ship to accomplish this at a time. In small gang, having a gila killer pair, is quite doable, and results in dead, surprised, Gilas. It is a strong ship in a 1-1. Leaping on it in an unplanned and ill considered manner is MEANT to not end well. Tl;Dr the Gila is a ship to be treated with respect as an enemy, requiring different tactics to overpower, This means just using unthinking brute force will often result in your destruction. And therein lies the problem with todays eve pilots, they forgot all about the importants for fitting a proper tank. Todays eve is all about speed & power while sacrificing tank as it's known as the kitting meta. For tank pvp pilots have adopted the use of ewar (TD's, SD's, and ECM) in the mids with very little actual tank in the hopes to mitigate damage. Even armor tankers sacrifice tank to fit all the nanos and damage mods they can while filling the mids with props,tackle, ewar , and cap boosters. But drone boats are all but immune to cheap ewar tactics and kiters since drones act on a independent AI system that will harass aggressors regardless of the ewar placed on the main ship hull. This ability has made drone boats the most hated weapon system in eve. And with the Gila able to do 600+ dps with the drones alone makes it a very formidable opponent against the kiting platforms. And so, since the majority of the eve populas loves the super fast kitey ships, that is why the forumers all band together and bashed the ishtars in the forums 24/7 until CCP could no longer ignore them and gave them their nerf and now it's the Gilas turn. Instead of adopting a new strategy it's easier to just whine in the forums in hopes that CCP would have mercy and nerf the ship to utter uselessness. A simple solution would be to not engage a Gila with a kitey ship and learn to fit a proper tank with good dps, the Gila has a solid tank not an overwhelming one.
Melody Axon AA and MA 11	Posted - 2015.05.13 10:53:50 - [29] - Quote Daniela Doran wrote: the Gila has a solid tank not an overwhelming one. I would actually beg to differ on that one (46k EHP on a Cynabal compared to 75.5k EHP on a comparatively fit Gila) , but the tank is not what I would like reduced, it's the drone bay size. Mainly because it can spit out hordes upon hordes of drones, and it doesn't fit between its two other pirate counterparts (The Worm and the RS). The Ishtar, that hated and 'OP' thing, which has bonuses leading to heavy and sentry drone use, can only hold 3 full flights of heavies/sentries, the Dominix Navy can hold 3 full flights of heavies and a flight of lights, the 'Geddon and Domi get 3 full flights of heavies. But for some reason, the Gila gets 5 full flights of the drones it is bonused for and meant to be used. To me that's weird, and part of the reason why the Gila is classified as OP. I don't think the tank is such a big issue, because a Gila is a slow whale compared to ships like the Cynabal and Orthrus, but when you're talking about the Gila potentially carrying over another 60k HP in drones (10 Hammerhead IIs, and that's raw HP, before resists are added in), that's a lot of extra damage to dish out if you are currently trying to kill their drones to reduce the incoming fire. You can't just set your drones on a Gila's drones to whittle them down while you take them out like you can do with any other ship, including normal drone ships like a VNI, they just take too long and can be continually replaced.
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 985	Posted - 2015.05.13 11:07:33 - [30] - Quote The changes to the ishtar aren't really a nerf. You just need to bring 20% more ishtars to get the job done. Since most ishtar gangs were already flying w/ enough firepower to alpha a well tanked BS and that 20% more requirement was already in place. They made the change to appease the complainers not to address the OP issues w/ the ishtar. It was bad math, put out by giggling ishtar pilots and changed nothing in the meta. The lack of change in current gameplay (post 'nerf') proves that. The gila is different. It uses small drones. They can be smartbombed or killed by other means (not sentries dropped 50km away that you can't reasonably get to before you are dead). The point is, their damage is in harms way and can be reasonably countered. You may not like fighting them, but you can fight them. Reducing the drone bay sized of a Gila will have an effect in a pretty small percentage of fights. How many fights were lost because the gila was able to drop its 5th set of drones on you? It's not something that comes up every day. It's still ishtars online because they are OP. It's not Gilas online. I'll say the gila is fine and there needs to be a real change to ishtars (cough, how many times does 'get rid of sentries on cruisers' have to be said?) The addition of the drone damage / tracking / range modules are what change everything and made the cruiser sentry platform too much. You didn't see ishtar/VNI swarms before that. -1 to Gila bay capacity change as it doesn't effect gameplay most of the time. -1 to the ishtar nerf because it didn't change anything (gangs were already +20% damage needed, so???) TL/DR I don't like fighting Gilas either, but at least you can actually fight back against them.
Arya Regnar Darwins Right Hand 705	Posted - 2015.05.13 11:21:29 - [31] - Quote Supported. A few weeks ago I saw a PVE Gila in a WH site get attacked by 2 confessors and anathema, they all died before being able to warp off after trying to tackle it. RLM Gilas are SERIOUSLY SCARY EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 12	Posted - 2015.05.13 11:59:00 - [32] - Quote Arya Regnar wrote: Supported. A few weeks ago I saw a PVE Gila in a WH site get attacked by 2 confessors and anathema, they all died before being able to warp off after trying to tackle it. RLM Gilas are SERIOUSLY SCARY LOL, They were probably failed fitted. But seriously the Gilas aren't cheap (290 mill isk), if they did nerf the drone bay like you want then their prices are gonna plummet and the ship would see very few uses due to lower survivability. As for tank for the Gila, the drones are it's tank because THEY WILL get primaried and even more so if they're only allowed 3 flights. Anyways if a ship can't tank 620 dps then they have no reason to take on a Gila.
March rabbit Federal Defense Union 1639	Posted - 2015.05.13 12:33:26 - [33] - Quote No support from me. Using Gila for high-sec lvl4s i would not like to move drones for every mission i meet or having not spare drones just in case... I lose small drones once in a while but i do it. So i always have like 6-7 of hoblins and warriors. And recently i messed up and almost lost one of my hammerheads in the middle of a mission. Needed to warp out and repair it in station. Else Gila would have no DPS output at all. For PvP i can agree that Gila's drone bay looks OP. But for PVE it is not. The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1158	Posted - 2015.05.13 12:43:12 - [34] - Quote people are speaking as if gila doesn't have missile damage aswell as drones which leads too over 900 dps fits easy. Tech 3's need to be multi-role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists. ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist, nerf sentries, -3 slots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster eagle worth using
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 669	Posted - 2015.05.13 13:17:55 - [35] - Quote Phaade wrote: elitatwo wrote: How about giving the Rattlesnake a bigger dronebay instead of complaining about pirate ships. Not supported. Are you aware of what you type before you hit post? I feel most times you are not. Supported OP. I am very aware of what I write and how I write it, you may have noticed that. It is no secret that ZEE ZOOPER tactic for zee drone ships is to shoot zee drones and who came up with that first should biomass and apologize. So let's make a deal and the day I can shoot your guns of your ship I stop complaining about people shooting drones. Moving on, the only thing I read in this thread is 'pirate boat stronger than mine, BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH..' Yes, pirate factions ships are stronger than yours and guess what, they are supposed to. Every single one of them. Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
Iroquoiss Pliskin Hedion University Amarr Empire 581	Posted - 2015.05.13 19:04:36 - [36] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: The gila is different. It uses small drones. They can be smartbombed or killed by other means (not sentries dropped 50km away that you can't reasonably get to before you are dead). For one, the ship is bonused in Medium drones. Secondly, those Medium drones on this ship have... TEN TIMES THE NUMBER OF HITPOINTS, than on competing drone boats. Harvey James wrote: people are speaking as if gila doesn't have missile damage aswell as drones which leads too over 900 dps fits easy. Drone+RLML cancer best cancer. Drone Cruisers Online // Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept // Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
Iain Cariaba 1351	Posted - 2015.05.13 19:44:57 - [37] - Quote So, are we officially moving from whining about Tengus-Online and Ishtars-Online to now whining about Gilas-Online? If people spent half as much time thinking about different ways to fight whatever the OP-Ship-of-the-Month as they spent whining about it... EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid. I couldn't have said it better.
Segraina Skyblazer Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 6	Posted - 2015.05.13 21:27:04 - [38] - Quote Harvey James wrote: people are speaking as if gila doesn't have missile damage aswell as drones which leads too over 900 dps fits easy. The Gila really doesn't have the grid or cpu to properly fit missile launchers with tank so that dps can't be applied in most cases and even if they do the missiles have short ranges due to not having missile velocity bonus.
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 12	Posted - 2015.05.13 21:35:10 - [39] - Quote Iain Cariaba wrote: So, are we officially moving from whining about Tengus-Online and Ishtars-Online to now whining about Gilas-Online? If people spent half as much time thinking about different ways to fight whatever the OP-Ship-of-the-Month as they spent whining about it... The forums have made it "Whiners Online". There's always gonna be a ship that people are gonna whine and whine about in the forums because they have gotten to lazy to strategize. There's only one ship that the complaints were justified and that's the Ishtar with having that massive drone bay with sentries. There's another ship called the Othrus that really is OP, but you don't hear too many complaints about it........why? Answer, because it's not a drone boat.
Melody Axon AA and MA 11	Posted - 2015.05.13 21:51:40 - [40] - Quote Daniela Doran wrote: Iain Cariaba wrote: So, are we officially moving from whining about Tengus-Online and Ishtars-Online to now whining about Gilas-Online? If people spent half as much time thinking about different ways to fight whatever the OP-Ship-of-the-Month as they spent whining about it... The forums have made it "Whiners Online". There's always gonna be a ship that people are gonna whine and whine about in the forums because they have gotten to lazy to strategize. There's only one ship that the complaints were justified and that's the Ishtar with having that massive drone bay with sentries. There's another ship called the Othrus that really is OP, but you don't hear too many complaints about it........why? Answer, because it's not a drone boat. 1) I'm not whining about the Gila, I'm confused why it has such a large drone bay and wondering what people would think about a slight reduction to its drone bay. And if people think that the reduction of the drone bay wouldn't affect the Gila at all, then what would be the problem of the drone bay reduction? 2) Sure, the Orthrus is also OP, and arguably even more OP than the Gila, but I haven't thought up of a way that seems reasonable to reduce it's power. If you have any ideas, feel free to post them on the forum.
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 12	Posted - 2015.05.13 22:10:08 - [41] - Quote Melody Axon wrote: Daniela Doran wrote: Iain Cariaba wrote: So, are we officially moving from whining about Tengus-Online and Ishtars-Online to now whining about Gilas-Online? If people spent half as much time thinking about different ways to fight whatever the OP-Ship-of-the-Month as they spent whining about it... The forums have made it "Whiners Online". There's always gonna be a ship that people are gonna whine and whine about in the forums because they have gotten to lazy to strategize. There's only one ship that the complaints were justified and that's the Ishtar with having that massive drone bay with sentries. There's another ship called the Othrus that really is OP, but you don't hear too many complaints about it........why? Answer, because it's not a drone boat. 1) I'm not whining about the Gila, I'm confused why it has such a large drone bay and wondering what people would think about a slight reduction to its drone bay. And if people think that the reduction of the drone bay wouldn't affect the Gila at all, then what would be the problem of the drone bay reduction? 2) Sure, the Orthrus is also OP, and arguably even more OP than the Gila, but I haven't thought up of a way that seems reasonable to reduce it's power. If you have any ideas, feel free to post them on the forum. I dislike whining. I'd rather come up with an anti-strategy against a ship that causes controversy. Either that or I follow the "if you can't beat em, join em" rule. P.S.........3 of my alts fly Ishtar.........
Melody Axon AA and MA 11	Posted - 2015.05.13 22:29:12 - [42] - Quote Daniela Doran wrote: P.S.........3 of my alts fly Ishtar......... Yay for you that you have Ishtar flying alts? Why you felt the need to point that out I have no idea, this thread isn't even about Ishtars.
Tusker Crazinski Delta vane Corp. Mordus Angels 67	Posted - 2015.05.13 22:44:59 - [43] - Quote motie one wrote: No not supported. Sorry you are having problems fighting this ship, but trying alternative tactics may help. Different ships with different flavours is a great design, nerfing them all down to a flavourless gruel is not. Or do you believe that missile ships should only be able to carry three reloads too? After all do you think that ships spewing neverending streams of missiles are overpowered for PVP? No? Try fighting the ship and not the weapon, sorry if you have to think differently from fighting other drone boats. Besides, with an appropriate weapon system, Gila drones are just more gristly meat to the grinder. funny thing is there's little to no tactics or counter tactics to both the weapon systems you've mentioned, and the gila uses both of them. anyway, when a gila lands and grid it'll go one of two ways, either you can trade damage with it favorably at which point the gila is either dead or will disengage, or you can't then you need to disengage or enjoy a losemail. The Gila is one of those ships with a massive and generally capless tank, along with capless DPS that gives no fucks about range. I'm yet to be killed by a Gila, they're not particularly fast. they're just really boring and trade unmitigatable damage favorably with most hulls in their class. hell most BCs for that matter.
Melody Axon AA and MA 13	Posted - 2015.05.14 07:35:28 - [44] - Quote Tusker Crazinski wrote: I'm yet to be killed by a Gila, they're not particularly fast. That is one thing I did notice when playing around on EFT. The Cynabal and Orthrus run rings around it, and even a 1600mm plated Vigilant is faster.
Yossarian Toralen M and M Enterpises 31	Posted - 2015.05.14 10:49:25 - [45] - Quote To the uninitiated, you can only field 4 light unbonused drones at a time, so there's a big hole in the gilas defence, unbonused sentries are a waste of time and space and the ship being slow doesn't help matters. Compared to other drone boats the drone bay is tiny and for the missiles they don't even do a lot of damage. Smart bombs destroy both drones and missiles, so saying that you can't defend against them is a bit off, it's like saying my brawler got shot down by a kiter and something needs to change because I fly brawlers. While you can run level 4's with them they do have trouble with some missions due to lack of ability to deal with frigates, most are a cakewalk. So if you want every ship that you have trouble dealing with due to bringing the wrong tools for the job, this will be a very lackluster and boring game with little or no choice. -1 from me.
Melody Axon AA and MA 13	Posted - 2015.05.14 11:04:11 - [46] - Quote Yossarian Toralen wrote: To the uninitiated,... unbonused sentries are a waste of time and space -1 from me. Hahahaha, do you even fly a Gila? You can't deploy sentries in a Gila, it doesn't have the bandwidth. And smartbombing a Gila's drones? Sure, that works. If the Gila pilot is brain-dead. Have you seen the HP of those drones? -1 for your post, because you have no idea what you're talking about.
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 12	Posted - 2015.05.14 11:29:54 - [47] - Quote Melody Axon wrote: Daniela Doran wrote: P.S.........3 of my alts fly Ishtar......... Yay for you that you have Ishtar flying alts? Why you felt the need to point that out I have no idea, this thread isn't even about Ishtars. You obviously didn't get that punch line. If you fear a certain type of ship and have no knowledge on how to counter it, then train for that ship yourself. You'll learn about a ship's weakness and strength much faster when you actually fly the ship. Either that or train for the Ishtar.
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 986	Posted - 2015.05.14 11:31:01 - [48] - Quote I'll say the Gila is fine as is. My basis? If 5 Gilas land on grid I say get them boys and a fight ensues. Win, lose or withdraw - there is a fight. If 5 ishtards land on grid I call to bail, because screw them. I could care less about mission performanc so other folks can weigh in on that. -1 to nerf the gila. They bring reasonable and fun fights.
Phaade Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF 346	Posted - 2015.05.14 15:49:46 - [49] - Quote elitatwo wrote: Phaade wrote: elitatwo wrote: How about giving the Rattlesnake a bigger dronebay instead of complaining about pirate ships. Not supported. Are you aware of what you type before you hit post? I feel most times you are not. Supported OP. I am very aware of what I write and how I write it, you may have noticed that. It is no secret that ZEE ZOOPER tactic for zee drone ships is to shoot zee drones and who came up with that first should biomass and apologize. So let's make a deal and the day I can shoot your guns of your ship I stop complaining about people shooting drones. Moving on, the only thing I read in this thread is 'pirate boat stronger than mine, BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH..' Yes, pirate factions ships are stronger than yours and guess what, they are supposed to. Every single one of them. Sure, give my turrets the EHP of well fit frigates, and give me 5 replacement sets for each turret. That sounds reasonable. OH WAIT. You are still trying to make that garbage argument. Is has been destroyed many, many times. Please, for the good of all mankind, stop.
Iroquoiss Pliskin Hedion University Amarr Empire 586	Posted - 2015.05.14 16:15:58 - [50] - Quote http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Ishtar http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Gila Medium drones are 10 m3. Gila can field 2 / 100 * 500 + 2 = 12 Effective medium drones. Ishtar 5 / 100 * 50 + 5 = 7.5 Effective medium drones. Ishtar can carry 56.52 Effective medium drones, Gila can carry 60 Effective medium drones - the ratio of fielded drones is 1.6, so Gila with a dronebay of +-62.5-70 m3 would be proper, which would equal to 36-42 Effective medium drones. Ishtard is balanced, if you can call it that way, in that most of its damage comes from Heavies/Sentries. A dronebay of 375 m3 is still huge. A Rattlesnake carries 42 drones and the Worm 30. Grave inconsistency. // Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept // Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
Iain Cariaba 1351	Posted - 2015.05.14 18:09:55 - [51] - Quote Phaade wrote: elitatwo wrote: Phaade wrote: elitatwo wrote: How about giving the Rattlesnake a bigger dronebay instead of complaining about pirate ships. Not supported. Are you aware of what you type before you hit post? I feel most times you are not. Supported OP. I am very aware of what I write and how I write it, you may have noticed that. It is no secret that ZEE ZOOPER tactic for zee drone ships is to shoot zee drones and who came up with that first should biomass and apologize. So let's make a deal and the day I can shoot your guns of your ship I stop complaining about people shooting drones. Moving on, the only thing I read in this thread is 'pirate boat stronger than mine, BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH..' Yes, pirate factions ships are stronger than yours and guess what, they are supposed to. Every single one of them. Sure, give my turrets the EHP of well fit frigates, and give me 5 replacement sets for each turret. That sounds reasonable. OH WAIT. You are still trying to make that garbage argument. It has been destroyed many, many times. Please, for the good of all mankind, stop. Just because you're bad at killing them doesn't make them broken. Trust me, I've lost enough Gilas to know they arent as OP as you think they are. EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid. I couldn't have said it better.
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 12	Posted - 2015.05.15 01:22:50 - [52] - Quote Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Ishtar http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Gila http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Vexor_Navy_Issue Medium drones are 10 m3. Gila can field 2 / 100 * 500 + 2 = 12 Effective medium drones. Ishtar 5 / 100 * 50 + 5 = 7.5 Effective medium drones. VNI is the same as Ishtar. Ishtar can carry 56.52 Effective medium drones, Gila can carry 60 Effective medium drones, with Vexor Navy Issue 30 mediums - the ratio of fielded drones is 1.6, so Gila with a dronebay of +-60-70 m3 would be proper, which would equal to 36-42 Effective medium drones. Ishtard is balanced, if you can call it that way, in that most of its damage comes from Heavies/Sentries. A dronebay of 375 m3 is still huge. A Rattlesnake carries 42 drones and the Worm 30. Grave inconsistency. The Gila is slow as hell, it needs those drones to survive when long pointed by anything. I guarantee that a reduced drone bay Gila drones will always be primaried immediately while (once dead) they can take their time killing the actual ship without fear of it escaping.
Yossarian Toralen M and M Enterpises 31	Posted - 2015.05.15 10:10:22 - [53] - Quote Melody Axon wrote: Yossarian Toralen wrote: To the uninitiated,... unbonused sentries are a waste of time and space -1 from me. Hahahaha, do you even fly a Gila? You can't deploy sentries in a Gila, it doesn't have the bandwidth. And smartbombing a Gila's drones? Sure, that works. If the Gila pilot is brain-dead. Have you seen the HP of those drones? -1 for your post, because you have no idea what you're talking about. So you completely overlook every point I make about the gila but the mistake about the sentries, you are a winner. You got negative feedback on reddit because your idea and small amount of reasoning is well below average, go get some tactics.
Iroquoiss Pliskin Hedion University Amarr Empire 599	Posted - 2015.05.15 10:34:32 - [54] - Quote Daniela Doran wrote: Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Ishtar http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Gila http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Vexor_Navy_Issue Medium drones are 10 m3. Gila can field 2 / 100 * 500 + 2 = 12 Effective medium drones. Ishtar 5 / 100 * 50 + 5 = 7.5 Effective medium drones. VNI is the same as Ishtar. Ishtar can carry 56.52 Effective medium drones, Gila can carry 60 Effective medium drones, with Vexor Navy Issue 30 mediums - the ratio of fielded drones is 1.6, so Gila with a dronebay of +-60-70 m3 would be proper, which would equal to 36-42 Effective medium drones. Ishtard is balanced, if you can call it that way, in that most of its damage comes from Heavies/Sentries. A dronebay of 375 m3 is still huge. A Rattlesnake carries 42 drones and the Worm 30. Grave inconsistency. The Gila is slow as hell, it needs those drones to survive when long pointed by anything. I guarantee that a reduced drone bay Gila drones will always be primaried immediately while (once dead) they can take their time killing the actual ship without fear of it escaping. Excuses, excuses. Sixty effective drones. Five flights of bonused drones. Quote: The only way for the ship to defend itself from kiters is from the abundance of the powerful medium drones at it's disposal, the missiles don't have the velocity bonus to hit beyond 30km. Try fitting something other than HAMs for a change. // Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept // Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
Fourteen Maken The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Enemy Spotted. 159	Posted - 2015.05.15 11:09:51 - [55] - Quote Daniela Doran wrote: The Gila is slow as hell, it needs those drones to survive when long pointed by anything. I guarantee that a reduced drone bay Gila drones will always be primaried immediately while (once dead) they can take their time killing the actual ship without fear of it escaping. The only way for the ship to defend itself from kiters is from the abundance of the powerful medium drones at it's disposal, the missiles don't have the velocity bonus to hit beyond 30km. I have problems recycling drones in a tristan but only when im trying to kite a brawler because he webs my drones and approaches them so they can't escape, but kiters rely on speed to avoid dps and don't have a web fitted so usually don't bother shooting at drones. I haven't flown a Gila but I imagine a kiter won't be interested in shooting your drones either, if he does you have time to recall them and send a fresh one out because he can't pin them down and they have a lot of hit points. If he can't outrun the drones he'll probably bail, and if he can outrun your drones he'll probably focus on your hull and let the drones chase him. I can't really think of a situation where someone would try to chew through all that drone HP unless you were the one kiting him.
Iroquoiss Pliskin Hedion University Amarr Empire 601	Posted - 2015.05.15 11:15:56 - [56] - Quote It is more like "Pretty please don't nerf my 80k EHP, 700 DPS, Omni damage, Two-weapons systems cap-independent cruiser!.." // Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept // Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1161	Posted - 2015.05.15 11:25:38 - [57] - Quote Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote: It is more like "Pretty please don't nerf my 80k EHP, 700 DPS, Omni damage Two-weapons systems cap-independent cruiser!.." 900 dps more like Tech 3's need to be multi-role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists. ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist, nerf sentries, -3 slots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster eagle worth using
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 12	Posted - 2015.05.16 11:45:06 - [58] - Quote Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote: It is more like "Pretty please don't nerf my 80k EHP, 700 DPS, Omni damage Two-weapons systems cap-independent cruiser!.." Oh please, After what they did to the T3D's I really couldn't care less what CCP decides to nerf these days let alone the Gila. And for your info I don't use missiles simply because they don't look as cool as lasers. I just like the convenience that the Gila provides since all my characters can fly it. And please don't get this guy above me started. If it was up to him every ship in eve would continually get nerfed on a regular basis.
Hakaari Inkuran State War Academy Caldari State 255	Posted - 2015.05.16 13:57:55 - [59] - Quote Melody Axon wrote: Yes, I posted this on reddit. Yes I expect to receive negative feedback, but I'm hoping that maybe, just maybe, on the EVE-forums I might actually get some actual reasons why this is a bad idea. And if this has already been proposed, I am sorry. So, with this introduction out of the way, onto the show. There are always people going on about how certain ships are OP and the Gila is one of the ones that is always brought up. I've been playing around with some EFT fits for different ships, and when coming to the Gila I noticed something that I feel could be changed for a subtle, but possibly effective, nerf on the Gila. The drone bay. The Worm gets 2.5 flights of bonused drones (25 m3/10 m3) The Rattlesnake gets 3.5 flights of bonused drones (175 m3/50 m3) The Gila, this apparently OP cruiser, gets FIVE flights of bonused drones (100 m3/20 m3). So, denizens of the EVE forums. Do you think a small nerf in a reduction of the drone bay of the Gila to 60 m3 (giving 3 flights of bonused drones, to bring it in line between the Worm (frigate) and Rattlesnake (BS) would bring the Gila down a little bit in its dominance? I personally feel it would be a good change, as it would still allow for a variety of drones to be carried along, while also increasing the viability of actually shooting down the Gila's drones to reduce the incoming damage. So, thoughts? i didnt even notice its drone bay was out of line. +1 implement this immediately.
Iroquoiss Pliskin Hedion University Amarr Empire 616	Posted - 2015.05.16 15:51:11 - [60] - Quote Daniela Doran wrote: Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote: It is more like "Pretty please don't nerf my 80k EHP, 700 DPS, Omni damage Two-weapons systems cap-independent cruiser!.." If it was up to him every ship in eve would continually get nerfed on a regular basis. Nothing wrong with a 80k EHP, 850 DPS omni damage cap-independent cruiser hull then? // Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept // Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
Corraidhin Farsaidh Farsaidh's Freeborn 1152	Posted - 2015.05.16 16:27:33 - [61] - Quote Now I did mention in ghe ishtar thread that the gila would be next in line for the nerf calls...
Iroquoiss Pliskin Hedion University Amarr Empire 620	Posted - 2015.05.16 21:26:44 - [62] - Quote Cancer spreads, we must contain it wherever it manifests next. // Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept // Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
Melody Axon AA and MA 15	Posted - 2015.05.17 21:47:13 - [63] - Quote Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote: Daniela Doran wrote: Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote: It is more like "Pretty please don't nerf my 80k EHP, 700 DPS, Omni damage Two-weapons systems cap-independent cruiser!.." If it was up to him every ship in eve would continually get nerfed on a regular basis. Nothing wrong with a 80k EHP, 850 DPS omni damage cap-independent cruiser hull then? The topic doesn't even touch upon the above fact, and merely states the discrepancy in dronebay volumes within the same Pirate ship tree. You get it.

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