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Shukan 02
MINING CASTE OF GOR
0
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Posted - 2015.05.12 02:21:43 -
[1] - Quote
Greetings
I would like to start a general discussion about the Rorqual.
My thoughts, allow the use of the Rorqual in High Sec as a short term fix.
Anyone thoughts?
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
37206
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Posted - 2015.05.12 02:28:01 -
[2] - Quote
At Fanfest CCP Seagull mentioned that capitals will be looked at this year, in part I think because of a lot of unrest in the community about the recent nerfs, while still being a high skillpoint demand ship and pinnacle ship to aim for as a new pilot.
So I would hope for Rorqual pilots that it is included in that balance process and if the choice is to give capitals some grid affecting capability similar to wormhole effects, then some sort of effect on mining will hopefully be included.
I don't use one, so have no skin in the game on this, but I hope something is done for the ship. It's been a lame duck since the compression array introduction.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Mr Grape Drink
Sugar - Water - Purple
16
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Posted - 2015.05.12 03:11:38 -
[3] - Quote
Good place to start would be looking at its flaws, starting with the broken bonuses
1) Drone bonus 2) RR bonus 3) Survey/Cargo Scanner bonus 4) Tractor bonus 5) Has to be deployed to get better boosts
These may have been helpful a long time ago, when in deep null you had plenty of time to see somebody coming and plenty of time to gtfo. And when there were no mobile tractor units, or mobile depots, or tanky mining barges. But now with wormholes, black ops, super interceptors, there's too much risk to sit that much isk out there stuck in deployed mode when you could run an orca for 1/4 the cost, slightly less boosts, and be safely aligned out with a higgs rig like a boss.
Simply put its bonuses are all over the place making it not all that great at anything other than afk in a pos. It needs to be purely focused on mining in all aspects. Putting it into high sec wouldnt make it any better. It would just mean the orca would become useless as it could be safely outclassed by a rorq in every way.
My thoughts on how to fix it?
Compare it to the other capital ships. A dread get XL guns, a carrier gets XL reps, a JF gets XL cargohold. So following the trend, a rorqual get XL mining lasers, right? :D
It's also Gallente in design, so how about large/fighter sized mining drones? This would add the same risk/reward as a carrier out ratting in anoms. Sure you can align out and be safeish, but hey you may lose a bunch of expensive drones and not make much if you do it too much.
Get rid of the idea of being stuck to be useful. Who would try to market such a poor design on a mining related fragile ship!?!
Add bells and whistles that relate to mining
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
8515
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Posted - 2015.05.12 04:06:56 -
[4] - Quote
Shukan 02 wrote:I would like to start a general discussion about the Rorqual.
There's nothing to discuss. It's a piece of crap and will stay a piece of crap for the foreseeable future. I haven't seen even a hint that CCP is in any way considering giving it some love any time soon.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Mr Grape Drink
Sugar - Water - Purple
18
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Posted - 2015.05.12 04:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Shukan 02 wrote:I would like to start a general discussion about the Rorqual. There's nothing to discuss. It's a piece of crap and will stay a piece of crap for the foreseeable future. I haven't seen even a hint that CCP is in any way considering giving it some love any time soon. Mr Epeen
Theres only room for one Mr in this thread |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Intrepid Crossing
1700
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 04:30:51 -
[6] - Quote
I thought Rorqual is being phased out along with the old pos forcefield... |
Kashadin
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
21
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Posted - 2015.05.12 04:37:22 -
[7] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:I thought Rorqual is being phased out along with the old pos forcefield...
The Rorqual was phased out before it was implemented. It had limited use with high efficiency mining groups operating in null but lets be honest, the thing was never very useful even before it become totally obsolete with the addition of a POS mod that did the same thing. |
Brutus Utama
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Shadow of xXDEATHXx
28
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Posted - 2015.05.12 07:59:38 -
[8] - Quote
a short term fix for what exactly? |
Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
177
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Posted - 2015.05.12 21:25:53 -
[9] - Quote
First of all please try to use search option to find similar topics where pilots have already discussed a lot about the Rorqual's current issues.
Second and last this thread should be closed as redudndant post. |
Lena Lazair
Khanid Irregulars Khanid's Legion
459
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Posted - 2015.05.13 00:03:59 -
[10] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Shukan 02 wrote:I would like to start a general discussion about the Rorqual. There's nothing to discuss. It's a piece of crap and will stay a piece of crap for the foreseeable future. I haven't seen even a hint that CCP is in any way considering giving it some love any time soon. Mr Epeen
They've acknowledged it's "wonky" and in need of fixing. They've also acknowledged they won't be touching it any time soon |
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Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
231
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Posted - 2015.05.13 04:21:58 -
[11] - Quote
The rorqual is the premier ship for one niche task........
Scaring the bejesus out of any fleet considering a hot drop. If Rorqual is in belt you know 4000 ships are waiting for you to take the bait.
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
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Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
182
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Posted - 2015.05.13 04:28:35 -
[12] - Quote
Forgot to mentioned the Rorq is still good to buy at low value and re-sell with some reasonable mark up. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
1493
|
Posted - 2015.05.13 04:44:54 -
[13] - Quote
Shukan 02 wrote:... allow the use of the Rorqual in High Sec ... Anyone thoughts? No.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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DaReaper
Net 7
2040
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Posted - 2015.05.13 05:07:02 -
[14] - Quote
Convert the rorq into a cap miner
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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u3pog
Ministerstvo na otbranata
89
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Posted - 2015.05.13 06:36:52 -
[15] - Quote
Tiddle Jr wrote:Forgot to mentioned the Rorq is still good to buy at low value and re-sell with some reasonable mark up.
I am selling few of them, you are welcome to buy them all in the Forge |
Krevnos
Back Door Burglars The Otherworld
12
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Posted - 2015.05.13 07:03:54 -
[16] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:I thought Rorqual is being phased out along with the old pos forcefield...
The Rorqual was never phased in! |
Aza Ebanu
Junkyard Gunners. Strange Phenomenon
35
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Posted - 2015.05.13 08:02:07 -
[17] - Quote
Mr Grape Drink wrote:
Get rid of the idea of being stuck to be useful. Who would try to market such a poor design on a mining related fragile ship!?!
Add bells and whistles that relate to mining
Now that would break the whole predator v. prey game design philosophy. |
Azami Nevinyrall
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
2238
|
Posted - 2015.05.13 13:17:18 -
[18] - Quote
The Rorqual can be retooled so it can be allowed in Highsec and not step on the Orcas toes...
What needs to happen is both ships need to be rebalanced in such a way that they're both viable.
An easy way to do so is make the Orca good for moving ORE and giving fleet boosts with a decent tank for a Capital ship.
The Rorqual can be tooled for Jumping around, Mining with a buff to offensive and defensive abilities. But avoid giving it the ability to use lazers as it'll step on the toes of the Barges and will make it impossible to deal with AFK mining and botting/boxing, especially in Highsec...
Hello, world!
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
4556
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Posted - 2015.05.13 13:27:04 -
[19] - Quote
This thread has been moved to Ships & Modules.
ISD Ezwal
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Bed Bugg
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
9
|
Posted - 2015.05.13 14:55:33 -
[20] - Quote
Frankly this is a no brainer. Bring the Rorqual to HS. It would take the smallest amount of changes to the Rorqual and it would be a highly viable ship again.
All it would take is letting it come into high sec and travel in and out like a Jump Freighter.
It would yield the following results:
1. Would reinstate the Rorqual to its rightful place as the Crown Jewel of the miners progression path. 2. It would actually allow the Capital tractor beam to actually be useful 3. It would allow corporations to use the Jump Clone Facility and get members jump clones rather than have them have to leave the corporation and join another to get clones and then come back.... because of the FUBAR standings requirements. This would fix what is now a work around to an onerous and broken mechanic. 4. Allows for mobile compression. Again, the idea of having to drop a POS and run it for an hour to compress ore and then turn it off again... is just another ANNOYING non game enhancing workaround. Make the Rorqual use fuel blocks for all I care... but it can move and compress with the mining fleet. 5. This would boost a flagging capital ship industry which is on the ropes since jump fatigue 6. Would drive trit and low end mineral prices down, which would help push the high end mineral market back up and helps make null sec capitals less expensive. (.10 change in trit prices basically changes the price of a dread by 20 mil or so) 7. Allows for some protection of mining fleet in the belts with remote repair. Does not prevent destruction of course, and with all the other top slots running, allows only a few spaces for remote rep units. But it gives some protection. 8. Allows for the transportation of an entire mining fleet...miners can be more nomadic. Can function as a mobile base of sorts. 9. Encourages miners to join groups that can field this force multiplier -- encouraging more social interaction. 10. Of course corps that actually field one would be much more juicy war targets, but meh, there are work arounds for that. 11. Will not interfere with the role of ship carrier that the Balloon Head takes.
This combined with Fuzzy Steve's ideas of prospecting and/or other peoples suggestions of more random grav sites, this would add some much needed content to the mining profession.
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Hicksimus
Xion Limited Resonance.
630
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Posted - 2015.05.13 15:27:42 -
[21] - Quote
Bed Bugg wrote: this would add some much needed content to the mining profession.
The launcher's mining background wasn't enough?
Recruitment Officer: What type of a pilot are you?
Me: I've been described as a Ray Charles with Parkinsons and a drinking problem.
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Bed Bugg
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
12
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Posted - 2015.06.03 13:45:52 -
[22] - Quote
[/quote] The launcher's mining background wasn't enough?[/quote]
The art department at CCP can make just about anything look amazing and compelling. |
Moth Eisig
92
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 16:28:34 -
[23] - Quote
If the ship bay weren't restricted to industrials/mining ships, I would at least consider training my alt into one to use as a deep space exploration base instead of an Orca because of the jump clone convenience. I'd probably end up losing it long before I got it cyno-ed into position though, so maybe it's just as well. |
Nalia White
Tencus
121
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 17:25:16 -
[24] - Quote
Mr Grape Drink wrote:snip
Compare it to the other capital ships. A dread get XL guns, a carrier gets XL reps, a JF gets XL cargohold. So following the trend, a rorqual get XL mining lasers, right? :D
It's also Gallente in design, so how about large/fighter sized mining drones? This would add the same risk/reward as a carrier out ratting in anoms. Sure you can align out and be safeish, but hey you may lose a bunch of expensive drones and not make much if you do it too much.
Get rid of the idea of being stuck to be useful. Who would try to market such a poor design on a mining related fragile ship!?!
Add bells and whistles that relate to mining
I like this actualy. uber mining vessel :) |
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
25
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 19:18:00 -
[25] - Quote
Bed Bugg wrote:Frankly this is a no brainer. Bring the Rorqual to HS. It would take the smallest amount of changes to the Rorqual and it would be a highly viable ship again.
All it would take is letting it come into high sec and travel in and out like a Jump Freighter.
It would yield the following results:
1. Would reinstate the Rorqual to its rightful place as the Crown Jewel of the miners progression path. 2. It would actually allow the Capital tractor beam to actually be useful 3. It would allow corporations to use the Jump Clone Facility and get members jump clones rather than have them have to leave the corporation and join another to get clones and then come back.... because of the FUBAR standings requirements. This would fix what is now a work around to an onerous and broken mechanic. 4. Allows for mobile compression. Again, the idea of having to drop a POS and run it for an hour to compress ore and then turn it off again... is just another ANNOYING non game enhancing workaround. Make the Rorqual use fuel blocks for all I care... but it can move and compress with the mining fleet. 5. This would boost a flagging capital ship industry which is on the ropes since jump fatigue 6. Would drive trit and low end mineral prices down, which would help push the high end mineral market back up and helps make null sec capitals less expensive. (.10 change in trit prices basically changes the price of a dread by 20 mil or so) 7. Allows for some protection of mining fleet in the belts with remote repair. Does not prevent destruction of course, and with all the other top slots running, allows only a few spaces for remote rep units. But it gives some protection. 8. Allows for the transportation of an entire mining fleet...miners can be more nomadic. Can function as a mobile base of sorts. 9. Encourages miners to join groups that can field this force multiplier -- encouraging more social interaction. 10. Of course corps that actually field one would be much more juicy war targets, but meh, there are work arounds for that. 11. Will not interfere with the role of ship carrier that the Balloon Head takes.
This combined with Fuzzy Steve's ideas of prospecting and/or other peoples suggestions of more random grav sites, this would add some much needed content to the mining profession.
Lower the mining bonus to be equal to Orca so the Orca still have a place for mining fleets. Having mobile compression in a belt already save alot of hauling so it would already be better than an Orca Also nuke the drone bonus (10 effective drones) and the Capital Remote Shield Booster range (same bonus as carriers) |
kyoukoku
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
29
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 01:51:26 -
[26] - Quote
If they ever allow it in HiSec I feel it should only be in the lower half, i.e. 0.5 to 0.7 systems, at least then it's a fair compromise.
This would also have the consequence of locking it out from 0.5-0.7 systems which are only accessible from 0.8-1.0 space, but people shouldn't be allowed to eat the whole cake anyway. |
Augustus Risalo
Vulcans Forge
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 12:17:57 -
[27] - Quote
If they want the Rorqual to be used in a belt, then it needs to be capable of protecting said belt.
How about letting the Rorqual take Remote ECM burst? You could give it a bonus to range and duration, and at least allow it to buy some time in a belt until a support fleet can arrive. I also like the idea of giving it a jump bridge, so you could get your allies in quick to defend it. I don't think it should really have a lot of offensive ability, it needs a support feet, but it should be able to defend itself long enough for help to arrive. |
Bed Bugg
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
14
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 18:54:58 -
[28] - Quote
kyoukoku wrote:If they ever allow it in HiSec I feel it should only be in the lower half, i.e. 0.5 to 0.7 systems, at least then it's a fair compromise.
This would also have the consequence of locking it out from 0.5-0.7 systems which are only accessible from 0.8-1.0 space, but people shouldn't be allowed to eat the whole cake anyway.
I agree. |
Moonlit Raid
State War Academy Caldari State
249
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 21:45:04 -
[29] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Shukan 02 wrote:... allow the use of the Rorqual in High Sec ... Anyone thoughts? No. Such a well formed, detailed, clear, highly assertive argument you just didn't give there.
If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.
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Bed Bugg
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
20
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Posted - 2015.07.30 13:12:33 -
[30] - Quote
Any word on any fixes coming for the Rorqual? |
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Mike Whiite
Geuzen Inc
393
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Posted - 2015.07.30 14:00:56 -
[31] - Quote
was the Rorqual not the relatively cheap mobile cloning bay |
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
70
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 15:25:55 -
[32] - Quote
Mike Whiite wrote:was the Rorqual not the relatively cheap mobile cloning bay
Yes it was (only other ship was Titan)
Restrictions on the use and free NPC clones didnt help it there tho :P |
Do Little
Red Frog Freight Red-Frog
66
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 16:19:50 -
[33] - Quote
I would support Rorqual in the lower security regions of high security space - .5 & .6. Ship is 1 million m3 packaged so it can be moved to destination system by freighter. With a price tag 3 times that of an Orca (not including the capital skill books) plus very restricted travel I don't see it putting the Orca out of business, but a 250K m3 ore hold plus compression would save the need for a freighter to haul ore and the capital remote shield booster should frustrate a few gankers. Wonder how many Catalysts (or Talos) CODE would need to take down a properly tanked Rorqual! |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
4527
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 03:00:01 -
[34] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:At Fanfest CCP Seagull mentioned that capitals will be looked at this year, in part I think because of a lot of unrest in the community about the recent nerfs, while still being a high skillpoint demand ship and pinnacle ship to aim for as a new pilot. We're almost into Fall here, so this is looking less and less likely to materialize before the end of 2015...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
337
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 10:45:52 -
[35] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:At Fanfest CCP Seagull mentioned that capitals will be looked at this year, in part I think because of a lot of unrest in the community about the recent nerfs, while still being a high skillpoint demand ship and pinnacle ship to aim for as a new pilot. We're almost into Fall here, so this is looking less and less likely to materialize before the end of 2015...
even fozzie didn't even want to discuss it cause he's so hell bent on nerfing drones and pushing his gamestyle. its almost as if they still have no idea after all this time what to do with the rorqual.. with exception to making sure she's a griefer/gank target.
T1 rorquals in HS would kill the orca.. also force orca to use and be configured to other types of platforms.
give us a T2 variant if these devs are so focused on pushing her into the field. give her teeth ( again we know a certain dev hates drones so he nerf's them) but she should have fighter drone support.. she's a capitial for petes sake.
so up the bonus to boost she provides, allow her to help boost industry index in null.
allow her to lock onto attackers and suck them into her bay and refine them..
the problem with the rorq now is you have those folks that decided to do battle rorq's which ccp read as "oh hey they like to pvp in an industrial capital ship".. so now she's stuck in the hole she's in.
also give her a new look.. one thing she really needs is attention.. its long overdue.
give her attention CCP!
save the rorqual!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Moonlit Raid
State War Academy Caldari State
257
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 14:52:54 -
[36] - Quote
I vote we just delete it; all Rorqs get replaced with Orcas and call that the end of it.
Realistically, what would have changed by doing that? Nothing, yes you are correct.
If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.
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Andii G-Love
Instar Heavy Industries
0
|
Posted - 2015.08.02 09:12:01 -
[37] - Quote
The Roq is broken. That said it should not be deleted.
What I think mining is missing in Eve is an expeditionary ability. The Jump Drive and Clone Bay on the Roq could serve this purpose, but right now they are limited.
I propose an ability for it to be capable of moving large fleets of mining vessels via a bridge. This could either be in the form of a barge specific storage bay (that can accommodate haulers too?) and the clones of their pilots OR the ability to bridge mining vessels.
What this would allow is expeditionary mining. Get a crew together, scout out a system, light a cyno and jump into to mine. Sure there are risks involved here that are not uncommon to the usual cyno jazz, but I think it would provide an option for mining fleets to do something different. I know I would hold weekly bridging ops!
I think to achieve this the bridging option is best, but the range needs to be increased. 5 AU is not sufficient.
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Hal Morsh
Aliastra Gallente Federation
365
|
Posted - 2015.08.02 16:32:04 -
[38] - Quote
Yeah. Rorqual mining lasers + highsec is a bad idea.
Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
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Oxide Ammar
209
|
Posted - 2015.08.03 06:22:57 -
[39] - Quote
Nalia White wrote:Mr Grape Drink wrote:snip
Compare it to the other capital ships. A dread get XL guns, a carrier gets XL reps, a JF gets XL cargohold. So following the trend, a rorqual get XL mining lasers, right? :D
It's also Gallente in design, so how about large/fighter sized mining drones? This would add the same risk/reward as a carrier out ratting in anoms. Sure you can align out and be safeish, but hey you may lose a bunch of expensive drones and not make much if you do it too much.
Get rid of the idea of being stuck to be useful. Who would try to market such a poor design on a mining related fragile ship!?!
Add bells and whistles that relate to mining
I like this actualy. uber mining vessel :)
Actually it's more of a broken idea than bringing Rorqual to HS, can you imagine capital ship with capital mining lasers and fighter size mining drones (warping with you like carriers) are sucking those gigantic asteroids you see in nullsec ? add couple of rorquals to the formula and you can literally suck the whole system dry before even someone notice that rorquals on the field.
Lady Areola Fappington: -áSolo PVP isn't dead!-á You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
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Shukan 02
MINING CASTE OF GOR
0
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Posted - 2015.08.12 04:27:16 -
[40] - Quote
Taking a look at the Rorqual from the point of view of a small mining operation, I would have limitations. I am unable to carry Cruisers in the bay, so am I to throw an ore at a ganker? Can the Rorqual protect my two hulks in space? I know, some of you are thinking, what am I doing alone in space? cant I mine in 0.4 space anymore? If that is the case, then there is no need for me to mine.
Some of you may say, mining in low/null is accomplished in mass... but what if the mass is out there running around? The only safe place for a small mining operation is 0.5 space, but I have outgrown mining in 0.5 as many of you have. Don't get me wrong, my Orca does what it is supposed to do, but WTF, I can fill my Orca in less than an hour in 0.5.
I myself am ready for the Rorqual, but with the current limitations, I do not see the Rorqual as an option. T1 T2 the sucker and for the love of Eve, fix the Ship Maintenance bay to carry other than Mining barges.
your thoughts? |
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Andii G-Love
Instar Heavy Industries
2
|
Posted - 2015.08.13 12:18:24 -
[41] - Quote
Shukan 02 wrote: Taking a look at the Rorqual from the point of view of a small mining operation, I would have limitations. I am unable to carry Cruisers in the bay, so am I to throw an ore at a ganker? Can the Rorqual protect my two hulks in space? I know, some of you are thinking, what am I doing alone in space? cant I mine in 0.4 space anymore? If that is the case, then there is no need for me to mine.
Some of you may say, mining in low/null is accomplished in mass... but what if the mass is out there running around? The only safe place for a small mining operation is 0.5 space, but I have outgrown mining in 0.5 as many of you have. Don't get me wrong, my Orca does what it is supposed to do, but WTF, I can fill my Orca in less than an hour in 0.5.
I myself am ready for the Rorqual, but with the current limitations, I do not see the Rorqual as an option. T1 T2 the sucker and for the love of Eve, fix the Ship Maintenance bay to carry other than Mining barges.
your thoughts?
I am the same, I love my orca and running small-medium sized mining operations. I am at pains at how I can take my guys into more riskier areas to mine, and bring them and their ore back safely. I feel we have outgrown high sec mining fleets, but have no next obvious path... Besides renting.
For high sec, I don't need the Rorq. I can mitigate the compression issue with the use of a hauler providing support (it is a good way to include the new guy), sometimes I'll even get freighters involved.
But until miners have a method of by passing gate camps, null sec is beyond my reach. We settle for highest with boosts or wormholes in something more disposable. I think an ability to bridge mining barges and haulers would be a neat tool, and I would take the risk of staging a mining fleet in a entry low sec, just to form up and bridge into a properly scouted null sec. It is important to that there them remains a way to get the ore out... This the need for the haulers to be bridged.
Andii |
dudz Navi
Society of the Endless Circle-Of-Two
3
|
Posted - 2015.08.25 12:55:52 -
[42] - Quote
This is indeed a tricky subject, the best answer iv seen is the XL mining lazors, That would indeed make it worth while. However It still doesn't negate the whole what is the point problem entirely. How about 100% refine on board + the ability to compress minerals not just ORE. Mobile factory are the word in my mind. |
Leila Meurtrier
Why Am I Not Surprised
1
|
Posted - 2015.08.25 13:19:37 -
[43] - Quote
I totally support idea of letting Rorqual in highsec just to see more beautiful killmails and tears of indie miners losing even more ground to boGǪIsboxers. |
Mikkir
Freelance Mining Company
10
|
Posted - 2015.08.25 15:10:14 -
[44] - Quote
Bed Bugg wrote:Frankly this is a no brainer. Bring the Rorqual to HS. It would take the smallest amount of changes to the Rorqual and it would be a highly viable ship again.
All it would take is letting it come into high sec and travel in and out like a Jump Freighter.
It would yield the following results:
1. Would reinstate the Rorqual to its rightful place as the Crown Jewel of the miners progression path. 2. It would actually allow the Capital tractor beam to actually be useful 3. It would allow corporations to use the Jump Clone Facility and get members jump clones rather than have them have to leave the corporation and join another to get clones and then come back.... because of the FUBAR standings requirements. This would fix what is now a work around to an onerous and broken mechanic. 4. Allows for mobile compression. Again, the idea of having to drop a POS and run it for an hour to compress ore and then turn it off again... is just another ANNOYING non game enhancing workaround. Make the Rorqual use fuel blocks for all I care... but it can move and compress with the mining fleet. 5. This would boost a flagging capital ship industry which is on the ropes since jump fatigue 6. Would drive trit and low end mineral prices down, which would help push the high end mineral market back up and helps make null sec capitals less expensive. (.10 change in trit prices basically changes the price of a dread by 20 mil or so) 7. Allows for some protection of mining fleet in the belts with remote repair. Does not prevent destruction of course, and with all the other top slots running, allows only a few spaces for remote rep units. But it gives some protection. 8. Allows for the transportation of an entire mining fleet...miners can be more nomadic. Can function as a mobile base of sorts. 9. Encourages miners to join groups that can field this force multiplier -- encouraging more social interaction. 10. Of course corps that actually field one would be much more juicy war targets, but meh, there are work arounds for that. 11. Will not interfere with the role of ship carrier that the Balloon Head takes.
This combined with Fuzzy Steve's ideas of prospecting and/or other peoples suggestions of more random grav sites, this would add some much needed content to the mining profession.
I disagree with your assessment.
The real consequences of letting the rorq into high sec is this: 1. completely displace the orca 2. capital sized remote reps in high sec would be disastrous 3. near ungankable level of eHP
And many of the things you state as benefits are more of an idealists dream than an actual outcome. |
Bed Bugg
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
21
|
Posted - 2015.08.25 16:21:19 -
[45] - Quote
Mikkir wrote:
I disagree with your assessment.
The real consequences of letting the rorq into high sec is this: 1. completely displace the orca 2. capital sized remote reps in high sec would be disastrous 3. near ungankable level of eHP
And many of the things you state as benefits are more of an idealists dream than an actual outcome.
Displace Orca--No. It is 3-4 times the price and would rightly have more applications. Orca would make more sense for some groups, and Rorqual for others.
Capital sized reps -- Disastrous to who? They might up the ante a bit from the rote ganking formulas in existence now. Since ganking is basically a riskless griefing activity anyway, who cares if the ante gets upped a little bit.
Near "Ungankable" level of EHP -- there are plenty of other ways to get to a Rorqual besides a straight out gank. If you put on your thinking cap.
Idealist? Hahahaha!
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Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
422
|
Posted - 2015.08.25 16:56:02 -
[46] - Quote
Andii G-Love wrote:I think an ability to bridge mining barges and haulers would be a neat tool, and I would take the risk of staging a mining fleet in a entry low sec, just to form up and bridge into a properly scouted null sec. It is important to that there them remains a way to get the ore out... This the need for the haulers to be bridged. Am I remembering the Rorq incorrectly? Your miners place their mining ships in the Rorqual's Ship Maint and their jump clones in the Clone Vat; your Rorqual pilot jumps to the mining site (or however close or far away you want to be) and when in position your miners clone jump to the Rorq, pull their ships out of the bay and mine away - there's no need for a bridge because it's entirely self contained. With compression the hold has space for a pretty impressive quantity of ore so you just jump back out when you're full. |
Mikkir
Freelance Mining Company
10
|
Posted - 2015.08.25 17:02:40 -
[47] - Quote
Bed Bugg wrote:Displace Orca--No. It is 3-4 times the price and would rightly have more applications. Orca would make more sense for some groups, and Rorqual for others.
Capital sized reps -- Disastrous to who? They might up the ante a bit from the rote ganking formulas in existence now. Since ganking is basically a riskless griefing activity anyway, who cares if the ante gets upped a little bit.
Near "Ungankable" level of EHP -- there are plenty of other ways to get to a Rorqual besides a straight out gank. If you put on your thinking cap.
Idealist? Hahahaha!
The only places in null that use an orca over a rorq are the groups that are currently trying to build one. Once the rorq is built the orca is useless and is completely replaced. For some reason you think high sec would be different.
And yes the rorq being in high sec would be disastrous. The problem is you're not seeing it as a carrier, but that's what it performs like. Mining corps would float around with their single rorq to boost their fleets, but the real disaster is when a rorq is used by PvP corps. You need to envision 100+ rorqs on grid, 5 sentry drones out (10 effective damage wise, same as a carrier) all spider tanked with remote capital shield reps. That's a nightmare in null sec to handle, where you can drop dreads and titans, and you think that would be good for high sec? Get real.
And the hauling rorq would be ridiculous. Just looking at hull EHP:
(250000 x 1.25 (mechanics) x 1.25 x 1.25 (2xbulkheads) x 1.25 x 1.25 x 1.25 (3xcapital hull rigs)) /.4 (dcu II) = 2,384,185 ehp from the hull. Yeah, nearly ungankable. |
Bed Bugg
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
21
|
Posted - 2015.08.25 18:51:48 -
[48] - Quote
Orca replaced by Rorqual -- who cares.
EHP and cargo... not really a big deal given limitations on cargo. Small hangers except for ore bay. It can carry a lot of ore and a small bay of trinkets. It could be expanded of course, but that eliminates that big tank. Not sure why you care so much about gankability. Everything else out there is pretty much a push over for gankers. Why such push back on one thing would raise the level of difficulty a bit?
100 Man Rorqual RR gangs -- ok Ill give you this one--as stupidly expensive that would be... Regardless, there are ways to balance this for use in HS.
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Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
79
|
Posted - 2015.08.25 20:57:44 -
[49] - Quote
Bed Bugg wrote:Orca replaced by Rorqual -- who cares.
EHP and cargo... not really a big deal given limitations on cargo. Small hangers except for ore bay. It can carry a lot of ore and a small bay of trinkets. It could be expanded of course, but that eliminates that big tank. Not sure why you care so much about gankability. Everything else out there is pretty much a push over for gankers. Why such push back on one thing would raise the level of difficulty a bit?
100 Man Rorqual RR gangs -- ok Ill give you this one--as stupidly expensive that would be... Regardless, there are ways to balance this for use in HS.
It have 500k+ EHP with no mods fitted, Damage Crontrol bring it up to over 1m EHP with 40k Cargo and 30k Fleet Hangar (those 2 holds have no limitations other than space.
100 man Rorqual RR gangs may seem "stupidly expensive" but keep in mind that people are fielding 100man super capital fleets. Cost is never a factor, when that extra cost means that you have next to 0 losses its the cheaper options. Would be fun to try on test server and see what you need to kill a 100man Rorqual RR gang, but the numbers needed means its not realistic to pull off (real server = dreads, SC and titan so that cant happen either) |
Itarn Tauran
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 17:11:00 -
[50] - Quote
I'm disappointed the latest round of new updates did not mention the Rorqual. :( |
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Mr Grape Drink
Sugar - Water - Purple Winmatar Republic
44
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 17:57:38 -
[51] - Quote
Itarn Tauran wrote:I'm disappointed the latest round of new updates did not mention the Rorqual. :(
/me hopes it ends up in the capital rebalance announcement at Vegas in a few weeks. Otherwise RIP Rorqual :( |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1455
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 20:10:03 -
[52] - Quote
Change the scanning bonus to cap recharge bonus.
Keep them out of HS. Putting caps in HS is like allowing a canoe in your bathtub. It just doesn't belong there.
The rorq is nearly un jammable - it would be a triage carrier w/ out the module if you let it loose in HS. Three would be 4+ on the undock of every hub lol repping anything that felt like repping with plenty of raw EHP to de-agress and dock.
HS is just a bad idea. |
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