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New Citadel/POS tear down ease? like if you get wardecced

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Kaelynne Rose WTB Somalians 41	Posted - 2015.05.16 22:43:34 - [1] - Quote I cant find info on how long/how easy they are to take down if your coro gets griefdecced. Is it like current mechanics where you can save your POS from griefdeccers before war goes live?
Avaelica Kuershin 80	Posted - 2015.05.16 23:01:25 - [2] - Quote Kaelynne Rose wrote: I cant find info on how long/how easy they are to take down if your coro gets griefdecced. Is it like current mechanics where you can save your POS from griefdeccers before war goes live? I would hope not. Surely having the citadel of a war-deccing corp still be vulnerable after the war goes live would be a good thing.
DaReaper Net 7 2050	Posted - 2015.05.16 23:59:55 - [3] - Quote Kaelynne Rose wrote: I cant find info on how long/how easy they are to take down if your coro gets griefdecced. Is it like current mechanics where you can save your POS from griefdeccers before war goes live? thats because there is no info OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Col Arran Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 197	Posted - 2015.05.17 00:33:15 - [4] - Quote I really hope not, EVE is harsh and there should be loss. Its not right that you can just tear everything down and dock up so you don't lose anything in a wardec. If you get a "griefdeccer" just ask for allies in the war there are plenty of people willing to help save your ****.
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 1048	Posted - 2015.05.17 00:53:56 - [5] - Quote If you can't defend it you should not deploy it. the Code ALWAYS wins
TigerXtrm Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance 1118	Posted - 2015.05.17 00:57:21 - [6] - Quote Col Arran wrote: I really hope not, EVE is harsh and there should be loss. Its not right that you can just tear everything down and dock up so you don't lose anything in a wardec. If you get a "griefdeccer" just ask for allies in the war there are plenty of people willing to help save your ****. At the same time there's a lot things 'not right' about the current wardec mechanics, but that's been discussed in many other threads so I won't get into that again. One positive thing is that, according to the current ideas, the defenders have a natural advantage when it comes to structures so at least there's that. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
Galphii Caldari Provisions Caldari State 312	Posted - 2015.05.17 01:20:49 - [7] - Quote Citadels will have aoe missiles, massive smartbombs, fighters and possibly fighter-bombers. I can understand tearing down current towers, since they suck at combat, but with all those new toys coming along, you might at least consider watching the fireworks. "Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 2174	Posted - 2015.05.17 01:39:33 - [8] - Quote Galphii wrote: Citadels will have aoe missiles, massive smartbombs, fighters and possibly fighter-bombers. I can understand tearing down current towers, since they suck at combat, but with all those new toys coming along, you might at least consider watching the fireworks. None of which matters when your small corp has no players online because there are only 10 of you in the corp to start with. Since the AI will sit there like a dead dodo and do nothing since there won't be any AI on these structures. And a single frigate can just come along and destroy everything you own in 30 minutes. Reinforcement timers if they even exist for the smaller versions also don't matter since once it's into reinforcement the Deccers have a very specific time they know they can force you to undock and lose ships or just write off the structure. So once it's into reinforcement cycles it's game over vs a Wardec corp. Meaning one of two things has to happen. You have to be able to tear it down in half an hour of online time. Or all the assets in storage inside the structure must be perfectly safe. If you want to force the structure to remain in space, I'm ok with that, but assets in storage must be safe. If assets in storage aren't safe, the structure must be removable. Otherwise any structure in highsec is just a pure wardec magnet and the game gets one step worse.
Kaelynne Rose WTB Somalians 42	Posted - 2015.05.17 01:47:17 - [9] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: If you can't defend it you should not deploy it. But currently my POS defends itself. In dickstar mode with supercrazy ecm its bacisally invincible and i dont even have to logon all war to defend it. New Citadels are manual guns only
Kaelynne Rose WTB Somalians 42	Posted - 2015.05.17 01:48:14 - [10] - Quote Galphii wrote: Citadels will have aoe missiles, massive smartbombs, fighters and possibly fighter-bombers. I can understand tearing down current towers, since they suck at combat, but with all those new toys coming along, you might at least consider watching the fireworks. But that arent automatic. A small corp must have someone online during the attack or lose it. Its unfair that griefers get this advantage
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 2174	Posted - 2015.05.17 01:50:29 - [11] - Quote Kaelynne Rose wrote: But currently my POS defends itself. In dickstar mode with supercrazy ecm its bacisally invincible and i dont even have to logon all war to defend it. New Citadels are manual guns only Allow me to introduce you to the concept of Grids and ASB Marauders and FOF missiles. Or just remote ECCM set ups. Dickstars can be taken down by any group that actually cares about your POS, they just won't be taken down by groups who are just out for cheap easy profit who focus on undefended POS's.
Kaelynne Rose WTB Somalians 42	Posted - 2015.05.17 02:50:27 - [12] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Kaelynne Rose wrote: But currently my POS defends itself. In dickstar mode with supercrazy ecm its bacisally invincible and i dont even have to logon all war to defend it. New Citadels are manual guns only Allow me to introduce you to the concept of Grids and ASB Marauders and FOF missiles. Or just remote ECCM set ups. Dickstars can be taken down by any group that actually cares about your POS, they just won't be taken down by groups who are just out for cheap easy profit who focus on undefended POS's. But now there are specific windows meaning you must bring the dps enough for the window too. And um i really think that most mercs/griefers wont spend hours and hours and mindnumblying hours trying to take down a small corp POS/Citadel. Thats why these changes are being made, cuz mindnumbinly boring structure grinds. But yeah if the griefers wanna bore themselves with my dickstar, so be it. But anyways im just fed up that I wont be able to save my Citadel under new system if i get griefdecced like i can now. (Dickstars are BASICALLY INVICIBLE / too boring to take down)
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 2176	Posted - 2015.05.17 02:53:53 - [13] - Quote Entosis link, no DPS grind needed, just one frigate with a link and you are all done.
Kaelynne Rose WTB Somalians 42	Posted - 2015.05.17 02:59:52 - [14] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Entosis link, no DPS grind needed, just one frigate with a link and you are all done. Hense why i am saying that i should be able to save my Small Citadel from griefers like you currently can. Thats whst im saying bro
Avaelica Kuershin 80	Posted - 2015.05.17 03:59:16 - [15] - Quote Kaelynne Rose wrote: Galphii wrote: Citadels will have aoe missiles, massive smartbombs, fighters and possibly fighter-bombers. I can understand tearing down current towers, since they suck at combat, but with all those new toys coming along, you might at least consider watching the fireworks. But that arent automatic. A small corp must have someone online during the attack or lose it. Its unfair that griefers get this advantage Griefers? What are those. Your words, I believe: Tyyler thats you terribad LOSSboard. So stfu before i grief you into quiting you bad player
Iroquoiss Pliskin Hedion University Amarr Empire 621	Posted - 2015.05.17 07:10:00 - [16] - Quote Kaelynne Rose wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: Entosis link, no DPS grind needed, just one frigate with a link and you are all done. Hense why i am saying that i should be able to save my Small Citadel from griefers like you currently can. Thats whst im saying bro Don't mind the POS-equivalent turrets fitted on it with all the other EWAR. // Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept // Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
Nicolai Serkanner Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. Brave Collective 368	Posted - 2015.05.17 09:58:40 - [17] - Quote Kaelynne Rose wrote: I cant find info on how long/how easy they are to take down if your coro gets griefdecced. Is it like current mechanics where you can save your POS from griefdeccers before war goes live? deleted ....
Nicolai Serkanner Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. Brave Collective 368	Posted - 2015.05.17 10:00:52 - [18] - Quote Kaelynne Rose wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: Entosis link, no DPS grind needed, just one frigate with a link and you are all done. Hense why i am saying that i should be able to save my Small Citadel from griefers like you currently can. Thats whst im saying bro You can. Kill the guy with the Entosis link.
Jacob Holland Weyland-Vulcan Industries 402	Posted - 2015.05.17 10:46:12 - [19] - Quote If I'm understanding correctly the tear-down will still be possible. The nano-assemblers demo does talk about repackaging structures after all. And I guess that (at least for the OP) it's necessary that that be the case because the vulnerability window will be too large for any small corp to be reasonably expected to cover (the OP's Citadel would be in high or lowsec or 'deccers wouldn't be a worry and therefore the window will be the full eighteen hours as there is no means to change the occupancy metrics).
Hir Miriel Elves In Space 193	Posted - 2015.05.17 10:59:34 - [20] - Quote From the Shake my Citadel blog... As such they should: Repel trolling attempts from a single player trying to capture them with an Entosis module Act as force multipliers to deal with attacking fleets and promote asymmetric warfare (less defenders are required than attackers) Have engagement inertia, meaning they require time to acquire and switch targets Require support from defending fleets to successfully fend off attacks ~ ~~ Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox. ~~ ~
DaReaper Net 7 2055	Posted - 2015.05.17 16:22:17 - [21] - Quote The info we do have, form the thread and the blog: there will be a window of opportunity they can be attacked, you will set your prime time and the window will be determined by occupancy. If your citadel gets RF'd and you go to remove it, the RF timer will restart. You will also have an unanchoring delay, which is stupid but thats the concept right now. Nothing is set in stone yet, so there is no official information on any of this at this time. That is why there is a feedback thread, if you have an issue, go post there, the devs will see it and take the thoughts into consideration in the final design. OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 2185	Posted - 2015.05.17 20:31:49 - [22] - Quote Occupancy is a Null Sov mechanic though. They have explained it all nicely for Null Sov, and it works for Null Sov, the issue is how it works in every other area of space where alliances are not thousands of people, but often a small handful only.
Carrie-Anne Moss Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 135	Posted - 2015.05.22 04:10:49 - [23] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Occupancy is a Null Sov mechanic though. They have explained it all nicely for Null Sov, and it works for Null Sov, the issue is how it works in every other area of space where alliances are not thousands of people, but often a small handful only. And where the most players are according to ccp and other data. Most players in hisec....least info about Citadels in hisec?? Legit
Carrie-Anne Moss Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 153	Posted - 2015.05.23 10:26:14 - [24] - Quote DaReaper wrote: Kaelynne Rose wrote: I cant find info on how long/how easy they are to take down if your coro gets griefdecced. Is it like current mechanics where you can save your POS from griefdeccers before war goes live? thats because there is no info Then this sounds like the perfect time to give feedback and let CCP know how to implement this system
Solecist Punk Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 57	Posted - 2015.05.23 11:08:43 - [25] - Quote Those who can not defend themselves ... ... aren't being griefdecced, silly. It's called natural selection ! You die, because you deserve it ! :D A million times over ! And then some ! :D Hell, anyone who thinks griefing is an issue in this game ... ... has NO idea what griefing really is ! :D <----- Profile pic - 1024x1024
permion Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 19	Posted - 2015.05.23 11:44:12 - [26] - Quote OP is perfectly justified asking for info. Should also be info that even people opposing the OP care about... Essentially the sooner the info gets out, the sooner both of your sides can actually fight about what should be happening. Right now this is just an amusing troll/flame war to watch. I've also never understood why people would ever even need to worry about high sec war deccers in the first place. Just hang out on low/null/WH or PvE spaces that you need keys/similar to get to if you can't leave High sec for whatever reason. Even stupid simple tactics of using WH's to get to the other side of the map will keep the average war dec player away from you(and that only costs you 20 to 30 mins a day, while costing the war dec corp several to many man hours to actually get to you).
Cyborg Girl86 Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 8	Posted - 2015.05.23 11:53:48 - [27] - Quote I really hope the mechanics for tearing down the new structures doesn't deviate too much from what they are now. Here's a RL example of how tiny corps use them to defend against an unstoppable threat taken from a thread I made: Quote: A RL example of how the current POS mechanics saved my hide: I got wardecced by a griefer/wardeccer corp a month ago and immediately after finding out, tore down and stored my POS during the 24hr grace period. To my amusement, every other corp in my system got systematically wardecced by the same corp, and sure enough a fleet of 20+ Apocs showed up and began wiping out all of the other corps' POS's one-by-one until nearly two thirds of all the POS's in my home system were wiped out. I seemed to be the only smart person other than the wardeccer corp in that system that day Lol Let's just say I saved myself quite a bit of ISK Most tiny indy/exploration/PVE corps can't defend themselves against entire fleets of 20-30+ POS bashing BS's/BC's, and the ability to tear down and store their POS is really their only saving grace.
Carrie-Anne Moss Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 153	Posted - 2015.05.23 15:36:49 - [28] - Quote permion wrote: OP is perfectly justified asking for info. Should also be info that even people opposing the OP care about... Essentially the sooner the info gets out, the sooner both of your sides can actually fight about what should be happening. Right now this is just an amusing troll/flame war to watch. I've also never understood why people would ever even need to worry about high sec war deccers in the first place. Just hang out on low/null/WH or PvE spaces that you need keys/similar to get to if you can't leave High sec for whatever reason. Even stupid simple tactics of using WH's to get to the other side of the map will keep the average war dec player away from you(and that only costs you 20 to 30 mins a day, while costing the war dec corp several to many man hours to actually get to you). This is very smart
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 9680	Posted - 2015.05.23 16:33:43 - [29] - Quote Carrie-Anne Moss wrote: permion wrote: OP is perfectly justified asking for info. Should also be info that even people opposing the OP care about... Essentially the sooner the info gets out, the sooner both of your sides can actually fight about what should be happening. Right now this is just an amusing troll/flame war to watch. I've also never understood why people would ever even need to worry about high sec war deccers in the first place. Just hang out on low/null/WH or PvE spaces that you need keys/similar to get to if you can't leave High sec for whatever reason. Even stupid simple tactics of using WH's to get to the other side of the map will keep the average war dec player away from you(and that only costs you 20 to 30 mins a day, while costing the war dec corp several to many man hours to actually get to you). This is very smart Might be a bit smarter to go post this in one of the structure discussion threads in f&I where the devs have actually responded to legitimately good questions rather than here in gd with a 50% chance of getting trolled =]\|[=
Kashadin Big Johnson's 28	Posted - 2015.05.23 16:46:24 - [30] - Quote All of the OPs fears and misinformation has been talked about in the F&I section. The new citadels will (if they are "unlimited" storage) launch your stuff into space, at a random point in system, that only you have a BM to, that is un-scanable and un-open-able to any but you, this includes ships, when they blow up. AFAIK that smaller Citadels will drop stuff like the current CHA does with the same drop rate. The Citadels defenses are made to be able to defend against a group that is trying to do nothing but use a single frig with a entosis link to destroy the citadel, tho a decently sized group with Logi will be able to easily overpower the Citadel. The Citadels will have a much better chance to be a force multiplier for the defenders than the current POS system because of the nature of the Citadel being: 1: Able to be placed location other than moons 2: Have a better interface (supposedly anyways) for the defender to coordinate the defenses. 3: Still have a POS shield like mechanism in place for friendly ships (unknown if it will be in the final build or what this "invincibility link" will do)

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