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Aristocrate Kondur
DD Starship Ltd
8
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Posted - 2015.05.19 23:13:40 -
[1] - Quote
Hi There, I am a very intense marketeer in EVE, but gettin frustrated about the following: I change my market prices over 200 times a day. When i post an order well below regional average, i get a reminder if that's good.... So far no problem... But when i make an error in stating a buying-order (a comma) or a selling order (same thing), no warning whatsoever. I lost 600 mil because i thought selling cruisers but was a line false and i sold battlecruisers. Today i sold a vexor for 106 mil but it had to be 10,6 mil, no warning for such an order. I hate that and it makes me each time more careful to hit enter. In fact my market activities diminish because i won't want to take the risk of mistaken orders (i lower my market-mutations to a level which can be double-checked cause otherwise it's useless to participate in that market)
Ari |
Aristocrate Kondur
DD Starship Ltd
8
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Posted - 2015.05.19 23:37:14 -
[2] - Quote
Aristocrate Kondur wrote:Hi There, I am a very intense marketeer in EVE, but gettin frustrated about the following: I change my market prices over 200 times a day. When i post an order well below regional average, i get a reminder if that's good.... So far no problem... But when i make an error in stating a buying-order (a comma) or a selling order (same thing), no warning whatsoever. I lost 600 mil because i thought selling cruisers but was a line false and i sold battlecruisers. Today i sold a vexor for 106 mil but it had to be 10,6 mil, no warning for such an order. I hate that and it makes me each time more careful to hit enter. In fact my market activities diminish because i won't want to take the risk of mistaken orders (i lower my market-mutations to a level which can be double-checked cause otherwise it's useless to participate in that market)
Ari
So my point is: Stop giving warnings whatsoever (in the spirit of EVE no rules when not explicitely needed) OR be consequent and warn also for potential loss in all market-orders. |
Cista2
Phoibe Enterprises
91
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Posted - 2015.05.19 23:40:04 -
[3] - Quote
Supported. Adjusting existing orders goes so smoothly with the different warnings in place - then not having it when launching on order... it must be like that simply to drive us bonkers.
Another pet subject of mine is the colors of the percentage deviations of the mean market value, something I use A LOT to avoid errors as well. When you adjust an order it glows red when you make an adjustment that is bad for yourself, green when it is advantageous to yourself (selling over average, buying under average).
The color will change when you add or remove digits. This works for adjusting buy order, adjusting sell order, and launching a sell order. However, when launching a buy order, the colors are opposite! Green color is disadvantageous for you (way above average price), red color is what you want (buying below average price). WTF! grrrrrr
My channel: "Signatures"
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Recommended: "The Biomass Bar" (for corpse selling)
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Kaea Astridsson
Hoplite Brigade
156
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Posted - 2015.05.19 23:40:06 -
[4] - Quote
Erm, I get warnings on buy orders also. "Your Buy Order is 66% Below Regional Average" or something like that. |
Aristocrate Kondur
DD Starship Ltd
8
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Posted - 2015.05.19 23:49:39 -
[5] - Quote
Kaea Astridsson wrote:Erm, I get warnings on buy orders also. "Your Buy Order is 66% Below Regional Average" or something like that.
Yep, but you won't get a warning when you mistakenly put a buy order which is 66% over regional average and you'll be surprised how fast such a mistake is used, In my example of battlecruisers i lost 600 mil in 19 seconds... |
Aristocrate Kondur
DD Starship Ltd
8
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Posted - 2015.05.19 23:59:20 -
[6] - Quote
Cista2 wrote:Supported. Adjusting existing orders goes so smoothly with the different warnings in place - then not having it when launching on order... it must be like that simply to drive us bonkers.
Another pet subject of mine is the colors of the percentage deviations of the mean market value, something I use A LOT to avoid errors as well. When you adjust an order it glows red when you make an adjustment that is bad for yourself, green when it is advantageous to yourself (selling over average, buying under average).
The color will change when you add or remove digits. This works for adjusting buy order, adjusting sell order, and launching a sell order. However, when launching a buy order, the colors are opposite! Green color is disadvantageous for you (way above average price), red color is what you want (buying below average price). WTF! grrrrrr
I totally agree, there is no consequent use... so stop it at all or implement it in all market-actions in a consequent way. |
Aristocrate Kondur
DD Starship Ltd
8
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Posted - 2015.05.20 00:32:28 -
[7] - Quote
I noticed actually:
I am for now probably done with this game after almost 2 years of playing (more than half with 2 accounts) Cause i hate to lose days of work in an instant without any warning. I'll rather blow my isk away in a big fight then loosing it because of ****** game mechanics
So bye |
Charlie Nonoke
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
70
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Posted - 2015.05.20 01:31:39 -
[8] - Quote
Ok... Obligatory, Stuff, can i haz?
But stop blaming anyone else but yourself. You made the mistake, HTFU. It doesn't hurt to double check your figures before you hit OK. There is no mandatory "warning" box for anything you do in life, let alone a game.
You got comfortable, and people make mistakes when they're comfortable. A way to weed out the weak I guess. But sleep on it, and you'll be back in no time.
I once sold 3 Paladins for 100m each, instead of 1b each, so laugh it off, and recoup the losses. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
5112
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Posted - 2015.05.20 02:07:24 -
[9] - Quote
Aristocrate Kondur wrote:I noticed actually:
I am for now probably done with this game after almost 2 years of playing (more than half with 2 accounts) Cause i hate to lose days of work in an instant without any warning. I'll rather blow my isk away in a big fight then loosing it because of ****** game mechanics
So bye
If you are going to throw a tantrum over a small loss (and if you are a 'very intense marketeer' 600m is trivial), then I don't think EVE is a game suited for you at all.
I say this despite agreeing with your suggestion.
Overall it balances out - I'm about neutral, maybe slightly up, from market errors in my favor and market errors that hurt me.
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
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Aldur Saken
SQPR Investment Bank
5
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Posted - 2015.05.20 06:48:20 -
[10] - Quote
Yeah i've had this happen to me before, normally I catch them before It's accepted But a few have slipped the net. Apart from just checking carefully, which I can understand might be difficult with 200 orders I don't see what else u can do |
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HeXxploiT
Big Diggers Get Off My Lawn
145
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Posted - 2015.05.20 07:08:26 -
[11] - Quote
I can't disagree with the OP. Wait until this happens at 5 or 10bil.
The single most important effective deterrent I have implemented in my own system that has almost certainly saved my ass as well as my wallet on many occasions is |
GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
406
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Posted - 2015.05.20 11:30:10 -
[12] - Quote
Aristocrate Kondur wrote:I noticed actually:
I am for now probably done with this game after almost 2 years of playing (more than half with 2 accounts) Cause i hate to lose days of work in an instant without any warning. I'll rather blow my isk away in a big fight then loosing it because of ****** game mechanics
So bye
Don't be mad.
If it makes you feel better, I once sold 3x Abaddon Tash-Murkon Edition hulls for 440k ISK each.
Charlie Nonoke wrote: I once sold 3 Paladins for 100m each, instead of 1b each.
Wooo, look at that - we have a tough one here. v0v
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+
Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
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RAW23
894
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Posted - 2015.05.21 11:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
Charlie Nonoke wrote:Ok... Obligatory, Stuff, can i haz?
But stop blaming anyone else but yourself. You made the mistake, HTFU. It doesn't hurt to double check your figures before you hit OK. There is no mandatory "warning" box for anything you do in life, let alone a game.
You got comfortable, and people make mistakes when they're comfortable. A way to weed out the weak I guess. But sleep on it, and you'll be back in no time.
I once sold 3 Paladins for 100m each, instead of 1b each, so laugh it off, and recoup the losses.
This is a pretty tiresome example of the kind of cliched posting that bedevils this game. Someone points out that a game mechanic is legitimately broken (it is and has been for 8 years now; CCP acknowledges this and refunds the consequences of the broken mechanics when other players aren't involved, i.e. fees) and your response is HTFU. It's not big, tough or clever to pretend that crappy implementation of the game design is a feature rather than a bug. Yes, people should be careful. However, the game should also work properly and comments such as those in the OP raising genuine issues contribute far more towards eventually improving things than does the kind of slavish acceptance that you are pushing (while also trying to be edgy).
_There are two types of EVE player: _
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
415
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Posted - 2015.05.21 13:28:33 -
[14] - Quote
No argument that is is somewhat broken. How should we go about fixing it - would that be an additional Yes/No prompt for every single transaction that you undertake on the market? Would such a warning be optional?
Funny thing is that most of these "Sold plex for 610k" happen after the seller hits OK on the low regional average price warning.
What is the threshold currently to get such a warning - 30, 50% deviation?
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+
Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
419
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Posted - 2015.05.22 11:13:22 -
[15] - Quote
Any suggestions how to improve the system then?
"Warning: your selected market price exceeds the regional average by 1204000%, Do you like to continue with the order?"
What was I purchasing? Why, the Thukker Large Shield Extenders for 35 mil of course.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+
Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
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Cista2
Phoibe Enterprises
95
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Posted - 2015.05.22 11:23:37 -
[16] - Quote
GankYou wrote:Any suggestions how to improve the system then? The same warnings as when adjusting orders would work excellent imo.
My channel: "Signatures"
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Recommended: "The Biomass Bar" (for corpse selling)
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Shakuul
Infinitus Sapientia
20
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Posted - 2015.05.22 15:05:36 -
[17] - Quote
Since cache scraping is permitted, is there a way to flag the fact that you had an order window open and flash warnings before you pressed enter? Going a step further, would it be EULA permissible to have a program that intercepts the enter key press until you address the warming? I think the answer is yes, since the program doesn't actually cause any behavior in the EVE client (rather it prevents behavior).
As far as in game improvements, I would have several options: - Threshold % (set by you) that will trigger a warning on any type of order modification - Checklist to enable/disable all warnings, by order type (buy, sell, modify, etc) - Option to disable warnings for specific items
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TheSmokingHertog
TALIBAN EXPRESS
312
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Posted - 2015.05.22 15:11:05 -
[18] - Quote
At EVE amsterdam and Fanfest 2014 / 2015 I brought this up... no joy jet.
My solution; If there is a market value difference on the product you are selling, be able to set the warning on a threshold (100mil, 1bil, etc)... It would be best to do this on a product basis. But if that is to difficult to implement an overall solution could work too.
"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X
"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron
-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
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Fornost Fornostsen
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.05.25 11:18:58 -
[19] - Quote
Marmket mistakes are annoying, but they tend to balance in the long period.
The best solution I read is to make you're order AT LEAST match the higher buy order/the lower sell order that is active in you station.
Example: You are selling a Paladin and you mistype 100.000.000 instead of 1.000.000.000. In your station the higher buy order is 900.000.000. You're Paladin is automatically sold for 900M.
You probably are losing your expected margin, but at least not 90% of item value.
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Makhpella
Temet Nosce Ex Astra
35
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Posted - 2015.05.25 16:47:52 -
[20] - Quote
there was always warning which they finaly fixed like month or two ago so when you spam enter it wont sell for the unusual price
before the fix I managed to sell 7 vindicators for 700k ISK then I wrote Evemail to those guys(5 or 6), only one replied and sent me 50m so it is rare to meet a decent man these days greedy f**kers everywhere, watch out |
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Cista2
Phoibe Enterprises
101
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Posted - 2015.06.08 07:22:56 -
[21] - Quote
Ohh and while we are here, there is another small peculiar item.
When you set up a sell order on something from your stock, some UI-coding genius found it would be amusing not to tell us which number represents your item sell price, and which number is the item count! How would anyone think this is helpful?
Granted, there is a ".00" after the suggested sell price (until you start typing, then it disappears). And my sell orders usually read as e.g. 3 x 299,999,999 isk so they are hard to confuse. But neither of those have helped when I have quickly typed one number, hit alt-tab, typed the other number, then look. Then having to start over because I could not see what I was doing. Because you know, we tend to think we know what we are doing, hence we type before we think.
I imagine if you are new in trading and maybe want to sell 2,000 items at a price of 4,000, you could often end up typing in the wrong field altogether and not realise it once you have done it.
My channel: "Signatures"
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Recommended: "The Biomass Bar" (for corpse selling)
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TheSmokingHertog
TALIBAN EXPRESS
314
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Posted - 2015.06.08 14:33:03 -
[22] - Quote
Cista2 wrote:Ohh and while we are here, there is another small peculiar item.
When you set up a sell order on something from your stock, some UI-coding genius found it would be amusing not to tell us which number represents your item sell price, and which number is the item count! How would anyone think this is helpful?
Granted, there is a ".00" after the suggested sell price (until you start typing, then it disappears). And my sell orders usually read as e.g. 3 x 299,999,999 isk so they are hard to confuse. But neither of those have helped when I have quickly typed one number, hit alt-tab, typed the other number, then look. Then having to start over because I could not see what I was doing. Because you know, we tend to think we know what we are doing, hence we type before we think.
I imagine if you are new in trading and maybe want to sell 2,000 items at a price of 4,000, you could often end up typing in the wrong field altogether and not realise it once you have done it.
This mistake I made a lot of times selling small amounts of compressed ore stacks. Most of the times the green / red % bar behind the order tells you something is wrong, or you can't type behind the ,.. and then you notice.
"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X
"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron
-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
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Plleasure Hub
Municorn
77
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Posted - 2015.06.09 23:19:57 -
[23] - Quote
For the people attacking OP, blaming him as the sole cause of the mistake is misguided. What he is pointing out is a user experience design flaw. These exist in every type of software, and they can and will cause even the most diligent of users to make mistakes.
I have all-too-often seen that people (especially smart programmers or system admins) love to blame users as the first response to an error. Often, this only distracts from the root of the issue, which is usually a flaw that needs correcting in the user experience of the software.
He is calling for greater consistency in the design of the order warnings. Lack of consistent design patterns is a classic UE issue! This type of reporting of flaws should be encouraged, not responded to by condescension.
"There's no meaningful difference between a real and a virtual world. It's pointless to ask anyone who they really are. All you can do is accept and believe in them, because whoever they are in your mind, is their true identity." GÇö Kazuto Kirigaya
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Cista2
Phoibe Enterprises
105
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Posted - 2015.06.15 10:27:41 -
[24] - Quote
TheSmokingHertog wrote: Most of the times the green / red % bar behind the order tells you something is wrong, or you can't type behind the ,.. and then you notice. Usually you will notice, but maybe it can go wrong! Case in point, somebody currently has an order up in Jita, to buy 50 million units of Merlin Wyirkomi SKINS for 0.01 (?) isk each. That order will take some time to fill :)
My channel: "Signatures"
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Recommended: "The Biomass Bar" (for corpse selling)
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
526
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Posted - 2015.06.15 10:50:11 -
[25] - Quote
I'd say, just be attentive when entering the last three digits of the order, and mentally keep in mind what you're dealing with - million, billions or thousands.
The number of orders that I modify per day predisposes me to a lot of risk, which can be managed with a sensible approach, and so far the losses only amounted to a few billion ISK.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+
Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
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