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Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.13 16:52:00 - [1] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 13/11/2006 16:51:57 Bear with me, this is just a crazy thought I had a minute ago. Currently, people complain that there is no reason to go to low sec. There have been all sorts of radical ideas tossed around, like moving all level 4s to low sec and so on. Of course, the mission runners complain because honestly, low sec is more dangerous even than 0.0 in many cases. So here's the crazy idea... make low sec more profitable than 0.0. It fits in perfectly with the risk vs reward concept and would revitalize piracy as a whole (even with 0km warp) because people would have reason to actually mine the belts or kill the NPCs: they wouldn't solely go to low sec because of autopilot. Am I crazy? Or might this actually work? -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Ficti0n FireTech Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.13 16:55:00 - [2] Hehe when i saw that Dark Shikari was making a EvE suggestion post i was quite opimistic, because....well its Dark Shikari! But to be honest I like the move agents to low sec idea, and im a lvl 4 mission runner! ficti0n
asdasdaasdasd	Posted - 2006.11.13 16:55:00 - [3] Edited by: asdasdaasdasd on 13/11/2006 16:54:57 Delete
Elve Sorrow Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.13 16:58:00 - [4] Purely out of interest. Why would anyone go to 0.0 if low-sec was more profitable? It's great being Amarr, aint it?
Paddlefoot Aeon Neogen Industries Serenity Fallen	Posted - 2006.11.13 16:58:00 - [5] You're crazy... Just had to do it And by making lowsec more profitable than 0.0, you will increase the pirates in those regions, and fewer people will go into them. 0.0 is only safe because of alliance control. Not to long ago, if you went into Pure Blind (before NEC calmed things a bit), you would see pirates everywhere. The can bubble you, they can gank you on both sides of a gate, and they can chase you through multiple systems. At least in lowsec, pirates are stuck in one system unless they can tank the sentry guns. If an alliance controls space, less pirates will go there because of the organized resistance that you don't find in lowsec. If you want more people in lowsec and 0.0, remove all empire-based ice fields. Alliances buy most of their ice from macro miners, who are keeping prices low. If prices go up, fewer POSes will be launched due to cost of operation, less space will be claimed, and more people will move out.
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.13 16:59:00 - [6] Originally by: Paddlefoot Aeon If you want more people in lowsec and 0.0, remove all empire-based ice fields. Alliances buy most of their ice from macro miners, who are keeping prices low. If prices go up, fewer POSes will be launched due to cost of operation, less space will be claimed, and more people will move out. i'd say: hi-sec icefields ... but i like this idea ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Letouk Mernel	Posted - 2006.11.13 16:59:00 - [7] Edited by: Letouk Mernel on 13/11/2006 16:59:53 It might work, but the problem is that CCP cannot control who goes there. The current problem is that empire-dwellers aren't motivated to take a chance, either in lowsec or 0.0, but making lowsec "more profitable" attracts all players, not just empire dwellers. In the end, the result will probably be alliances moving in / expanding their areas to adjacent lowsec systems. That means more combat / chances for the pirates to have prey, but it's not the kind of prey they're looking for, probably, and the empire dwellers will stay in empire still.
Lord WarATron Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.13 17:00:00 - [8] to be honest - remove spud from 0.0 and put it in low sec. That will bring in the numbers wanting to mine. To be honest, Spud really is a low sec ore, and not a 0.0 one. --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.13 17:01:00 - [9] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Purely out of interest. Why would anyone go to 0.0 if low-sec was more profitable? Your own refinery with 0% tax, sovreigntiy etc etc? -------------------- \0/\0/\0/\0/\0/ Cant we all just get along? Wheres EVE heading?
Michayel Lyon Contention Inc	Posted - 2006.11.13 17:03:00 - [10] Originally by: Dark Shikari make low sec more profitable than 0.0 Then what would be the reason to go to 0.0? No, I think moving all lvl4 agents to low-sec/0.0 and have more missions around belts, stations and gates would be the best solution. Alternatively, the simplified probing might have the same effect. And I'm saying this both as a pirate and a lvl4 mission runner... --- Lasiverin Dark > Is everyone here allied? Red Knight > we are allied by our zombie like ability to ***** missions The Game - You just lost it
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.13 17:03:00 - [11] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Purely out of interest. Why would anyone go to 0.0 if low-sec was more profitable? Because low sec will be filled with pirates -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Elve Sorrow Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.13 17:09:00 - [12] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Elve Sorrow Purely out of interest. Why would anyone go to 0.0 if low-sec was more profitable? Because low sec will be filled with pirates No, alliances would just claim low-sec systems instead, and since 95% of EVE's pirates are clueless morons they'd be kicked out in about 2 days. It's great being Amarr, aint it?
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.11.13 17:11:00 - [13] Isn't low-sec already more profitable? - Higher Quality agents. - Better Ore/Minerals. Or do you mean make it more profitable over its current levels? What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.13 17:12:00 - [14] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 13/11/2006 17:12:25 Originally by: Elve Sorrow No, alliances would just claim low-sec systems instead Hmmph. Good point. Though the lack of bubbles, etc in low sec might hinder them. Originally by: FireFoxx80 Isn't low-sec already more profitable? - Higher Quality agents. - Better Ore/Minerals. Or do you mean make it more profitable over its current levels? Low sec more profitable than 0.0 was my nutcase idea. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Jollyreaper Gallente Ace Adventure Corp	Posted - 2006.11.13 17:16:00 - [15] I like the idea. Right now, I have very little cash because I just bought a new ship and a ton of skills. There's no way I want to get in a tussle right now, especially since I don't have the scratch to ransom my pod. It's high-sec for me for the moment. When I'm ready for it, I'll be more than happy to go into lowsec, especially if I have a chance of significantly increasing my returns for the risk. To me, that's the way to do it. Carebears should be allowed to sit in highsec. Those who are wanting to run some risks can then go into lowsec and make their rewards. The only real question that needs settled is just how much more profitable does it need to be down there? Also, what are the odds of a successful attack by a pirate? The better your chance of escaping, the more likely a carebear will go down there. That will give the pirates more chance to make a kill while the carebears are still feeling that the trade-off is worth it. From my perspective, losing the ship isn't the worst risk to run, it's losing the pod. I can always fly a ship I can afford to lose into a dangerous area. If I lose my pod, though, that's a lot of implants to replace. Maybe enhanced pods could be a new item to sell in the game, perhaps one that has war stabs equipped to allow for escape? Maybe give it a 1 or 2 rating so it can escape single or paired rats but would still allow a gang to nail the target -- in that case, the gang gets the reward for having so many people together but the target can still escape single encounters. The thing is, pirate victims aren't playing the game just so they can be targets. A pirate should have to work just as hard to nail a carebear as the carebear worked to put his ship together.
Rafein Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.11.13 17:18:00 - [16] actually, it would work, and not a bad idea, TBH. I mean, what's the difference between killing a player in low sec compared to no-sec? Security loss. So players who are in 0.0 are already risking more, not only their ship, but their ability to go to high sec space. Risk Vs. reward should favor low sec, as it has the same risks are no sec, but more penalties.
Arushia Nova Inc.	Posted - 2006.11.13 17:19:00 - [17] Originally by: FireFoxx80 Isn't low-sec already more profitable? - Higher Quality agents. - Better Ore/Minerals. Or do you mean make it more profitable over its current levels? Not more profitable than 0.0, and not enough more profitable than 0.5 to justify the risk. Especially for mining purposes. Better Zydrine yield from Jaspet would help, and replace Kernite in Minmatar low-sec with something that doesn't spawn in Amarr high-sec.
Torquemanda Corteaz Gallente Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.13 17:22:00 - [18] Make low sec more profitable than it currently is but not more profitable than 0.0 low sec is still empire space, 0.0 is unclaimed and dangerous territory, the only reason low sec is currently more dangerous is that there are greater number per system of empire than 0.0, so there are more clueless carebears, and more ebil pirates
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.11.13 17:26:00 - [19] Edited by: Plutoinum on 13/11/2006 17:31:09 Why not let the empires depend more on low sec ? At the moment low sec has not much use, except being a rather uninteresting alternative to high sec. If you remove lowsec altogether, everything would be still fine for the rest of EVE. CCP could put resources into low sec that are vital to the economy in high-sec. Like nobody gathering resources in low sec, prices go up, economy suffers. Trades between the empires could also be strengthened in a similar way. The 4 'empires' could differ more in the distribution of resources for example. Maybe building caldari ships in caldari space could be more cost-efficient than in Minmatar space and such things, that would strengthen inter-empire trading even more. Those both things would be an incentive to enter low sec to gather resources and to trade between empires even more. And to secure it. There would be more targets for pirates, but those targets had a harder time, because high-sec folk really had a strong motivation to keep criminality in low-sec low. They'd organize some military/police themselves, pay bounty hunters etc. because secure low sec = high profit. I believe it would be a lot more fun than now, where low sec is rather pointless. /edit **** edited too wild
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.13 17:26:00 - [20] Well, this idea might not work, but I like the intentions behind it. Keep thinking. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Donna Darko	Posted - 2006.11.13 17:30:00 - [21] If you try to make low sec more profitable than 0.0, alliances will move there instead of still claiming 0.0 space. And suddenly you ARE going to see low sec crawling with pirates, since everyone has an NBSI policy and will kill every noob venturing in their system. Low security as it is now is not ôworseö than 0.0, in my opinion: if you fly something bigger than a frigate, you wonÆt worry about the frigate/assault frigate/interceptor/destroyer near the gate. Gate camps consist mainly of snipers, which makes it possible for certain ships to go through. I will agree that low sec has to be made a lot more profitable and I agree level 4s should be moved there. Stories.
Silver Bird Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.13 17:33:00 - [22] I would like to see the following happen. Move high quality level 3 and 4 agents to low sec Cut the amount of ore in high sec roids based on security levels. Increased the amount of ore in low sec roids based on the secuity level. No +.7 roid should have enough ore for one strip miner cycle. (I have bot checked this recently to see if this is still acurate)
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.13 17:35:00 - [23] So essentially you add another X regions of npc sovereignty 0.0 space to the mix ? Wouldnt that end up with alot of the boring station camping we all left behind with the introduction of conquerable stations ? After all, large groups of cooperative players > pirates. Move the wealth to low sec, and the groups will follow. Instead, low sec empire should simply remain the intermediate risk place it is (intermediate on a group level, not neccesarily on an individual level), but be graced with some unique resources that are part of integrated production chains. Preferably resources that do not involve instances or semi-afk POS management to extract. Old blog
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.13 17:38:00 - [24] Originally by: Silver Bird I would like to see the following happen. Move high quality level 3 and 4 agents to low sec Cut the amount of ore in high sec roids based on security levels. Increased the amount of ore in low sec roids based on the secuity level. No +.7 roid should have enough ore for one strip miner cycle. (I have bot checked this recently to see if this is still acurate) /signed and add "tie sell orders to corp offices". --------- Boryokudan Recruitment. Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.13 17:48:00 - [25] Edited by: Godar Marak on 13/11/2006 17:49:55 Originally by: Elve Sorrow 95% of EVE's pirates are clueless morons they'd be kicked out in about 2 days. They would only be 'kicked out' because theres more isk to grind when you have your own refinery etc. Thus you could afford more. And as far as morons go, the fan fest stream prooved you have one of the biggest morons in all of EVE. -------------------- \0/\0/\0/\0/\0/ Cant we all just get along? Wheres EVE heading?
Serapis Aote TBC	Posted - 2006.11.13 18:02:00 - [26] Dont move all good agents to low sec. Dont force people to have to go there. Make it so they want to go there because it is worth it. It currently isnt worth it. Give them a good amount of quality agents in a good number of systems. Dont concentrate agents in 1 system. Migrate some of the mid-range ore from 0.0 to low sec. Enable corps that gain really good standing with empires to run pos at lower costs and to have a refine and tax possibility on par or very close to that of their 0.0 counterparts. Increase the efficiency and reduce the tax at low sec stations. This includes a lower tax (to almost no tax) for selling stuff on the market in low sec. Everything that NPCs sell should be cheaper on low sec markets to encourage people to buy from there. The futher the NPC is from high sec the lower the price. Mainly dont concentrate everything in 1 or 2 low sec systems. Spread everything out. So the better ore isnt in just 1 or 2 systems per region, it is in every low sec system of similar level. One of the problems now that makes low sec so much more dangerous, is that the only real valuable resource is quality agents, and CCP put them in only a handful of systems.
Elve Sorrow Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.13 18:11:00 - [27] Originally by: Godar Marak Edited by: Godar Marak on 13/11/2006 17:49:55 Originally by: Elve Sorrow 95% of EVE's pirates are clueless morons they'd be kicked out in about 2 days. They would only be 'kicked out' because theres more isk to grind when you have your own refinery etc. Thus you could afford more. And as far as morons go, the fan fest stream prooved you have one of the biggest morons in all of EVE. Yes, i think ill go and apologise for the actions of some idiot who i dont know for something that i dont even know the details about. It's great being Amarr, aint it?
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.13 18:16:00 - [28] Edited by: Godar Marak on 13/11/2006 18:18:49 Edited by: Godar Marak on 13/11/2006 18:18:12 Originally by: Elve Sorrow Yes, i think ill go and apologise for the actions of some idiot who i dont know for something that i dont even know the details about. Unlike the low sec pirates should apolagise to you for being 'morons' right? edit : You say you dont know about it, well there not that much to know. Basically he behaved like your average alliance minion/muppet. Kinda like you did in the 2nd post of yours I quoted. -------------------- \0/\0/\0/\0/\0/ Cant we all just get along? Wheres EVE heading?
stoats Another Lame Corp	Posted - 2006.11.13 18:22:00 - [29] Make low sec worth being in and it will be populated by people who aren't either nub, or crazy. It will also provide some good fights as people try to keep their systems (worth being in, zomg!) clear of those ebil pirates.
Ingols	Posted - 2006.11.13 18:36:00 - [30] Two Words Gate camps. Explaination. I havn't seen anybody who's ever come up with a suggestion to get more people into Lowsec, do it out of the kindness of their heart. Everybody suggesting changes to induce more people into Lowsec are doing it for their own agenda. Players don't mind getting run down in a asteroid field or complex, or Similar POI because at least they had a chance. Players do mind jump-in gate camps because they really have absolutely no chance unless they have a specific type of fitting that really doesn't match what the player wants to be doing. Eve is not corporate-centric or alliance-centric enough. There isn't enough negative reprecussions to piracy (like permanant security loss) and there aren't enough safe points in 0.0 to even bother with that aspect of the game.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2006.11.13 18:56:00 - [31] Two things would vitalize low sec. Casinos. Black market, all loot being marketable only in low sec systems. And those two only in select locations to make people actually having to traverse some low sec space to get to them, not just pop in to get their fix and then back out again. Something's rotten with the state of the servers.
Kakk0 Warui	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:09:00 - [32] Maybe I just don't know enough about the game yet, but these "increase low sec population" threads all seem to amount to people set for PvP wanting more people set for mining and PvE (read: easy meat) as targets. While I'm not against getting people to low sec (I want to go there myself someday). I don't think it should be what is percieved as a lambs to the slaughter afair. Missions moved to lowsec should be fundamentally changed, in that the ship setup to be effective in a mission should be similar to a conventional PvP fit. This would take away the "If a pirate finds you you are essentially dead" mentallity. Which I believe is more the reason lowsec is sparsley populated. Also, there should be an option for people to run the same mission together. so for Lowsec missions, rewards and bounties should be the same for all. Rather than having one bounty split between the number of people running the mission. So you have a feeling of safety in numbers. Basically, I think the way to populate low sec is not to nerf highsec, but make lowsec seem safer without necessarily making it safer.
Rafein Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:18:00 - [33] Alright, how about this option. 1. Boost NPC pirates. Let's make them worthwhile to fight, maybe even seeing the rare Battleships in .2 2. For miners, have special items that rarely appear after a full cycle of mining. These items will be used in constructions of item that can be used to modifiy modules, suck as increased tracking, faster RoF. This items would be kinda like rigs, except for modules, instead of ships, but have no drawbacks, other than having to be mining in .1-.4 for a while to obtain parts needed for them. This would attract people to low sec, better NPC rewards, and items used to boost the strength of their equiment, making them better overall. Just have to make it so ONLY low sec, not 0.0 or .5+ can obtain the items, or else it's pointless.
Megadon Caldari Deathshead Inc.	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:24:00 - [34] ♠♠♠♠♠♠ NEWS FLASH ♠♠♠♠♠♠ THE BEST AGENTS ARE ALREADY IN LOW SEC! WELCOME TO YESTERDAYS NEWS!
Donna Darko	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:26:00 - [35] Originally by: Ingols There isn't enough negative reprecussions to piracy (like permanant security loss)... Oh, please... What if your favorite action in the game "punished" you with permanent security loss? How long would you play? Hell, even real life is more lenient than you. Stories.
Detavi Kade	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:28:00 - [36] Edited by: Detavi Kade on 13/11/2006 19:29:27 In-game ****, shown on those tv billboards, only in lowsec =) That should do it. -edit, dang it, filtered! ok..starts with a P, ends with N, has OR or RO in the middle. I sense a forum warning in my msg box soon.
Sakura Nihil Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:39:00 - [37] Simple idea - move all level 3 and level 4 agents to lowsec. The rationale? - Reality check! How would all those pirates maintain a foothold in CONCORD and navy patrolled space after over a year, especially with the level of missionrunners killing them? - Name one other highsec profession that can make even half the money level 4 grinders can. Make risk vs. reward a reality, move ALL L3 and L4 missions to lowsec. "Titans were never meant to be cost-effective, they're a huge ****" - Oveur
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:40:00 - [38] Easiest way to get mroe people into LoSec? Make the security ratings mean something. As it is a lone player or small group is in more danger in a .4 system than in a 0.0 system. Two battleships running missions are in constant danger in a .4 system that is 2 hops from a 1.0 system. Two BSs shouldn't have to constantly watch over there shoulders in .4 The security ratings from .4 to .1 mean nothing, fix that and you will get more people into lower security areas. As it is we have three security areas: Empire, Pirate and Alliance. --------------------------------------------------- MMORPG == Massively Moronic Online Raw Powergaming Grief fests.... Play something different: EvE LowSec != NoSec
hobieone Caldari Intergalactic Commerce Union	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:49:00 - [39] actually none of those reason is why no one goes to low sec!! this is basically beating a dead horse. the main reson people don't go to low sec and it been explained over and over again and again is the idiots that insist on gate camping to the point that it totally useless to even enter low sec becuase it become suicide to even remotely try with any ship configuration. and all moving level 4 or even level 3 mission to low will accomplish is to kill the mission wich willbe useless do to most mission runner s will quit becuse the gate camps will make it impossible to reach the npcs as usual. only solution is make gate camps impossible to do unless its a sec 0.0 zone. and leave pvp as it stands in lows sec Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Serapis Aote TBC	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:53:00 - [40] Originally by: hobieone actually none of those reason is why no one goes to low sec!! this is basically beating a dead horse. the main reson people don't go to low sec and it been explained over and over again and again is the idiots that insist on gate camping to the point that it totally useless to even enter low sec becuase it become suicide to even remotely try with any ship configuration. Its not the gate camps that keep people out. Its that once you get past the camps, you realize its not worth the effort to beat the camp. If you could make a lot of money in low sec compared with high sec, people would do it more. Right now there is very little incentive to try to break those camps, because the difference in what you can make in high sec and low sec isnt that big.
Jason Kildaro Minmatar Synergy Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.13 21:04:00 - [41] Edited by: Jason Kildaro on 13/11/2006 21:12:37 Interesting problem. I think low sec does need to be more viable for players but not to the point where it would make alliances come snooping into low sec. Level 4 agents - well we already have those but I think the difference needs to be bigger. Keep level 4's in high sec as they are but make the low sec agent payout much more LP and reward for the mission runners added risk. Cut the loot down in high sec missions and boost it in low sec. The introduction of modules should bolster the markets in low sec to the point where buying stuff makes a low sec shopping run worth it. Ore - hmmm...I think we could see a boost in the 10% and 15% ores like "fiery kernite" stuff. More ice would boost this area as well. Markets - station NPC's should buy the trade goods at awesome prices so traders have incentive to travel there. Buy low in Empire and sell high in low sec. Afterall these low sec NPC's should be hurting for some goods since the traffic is less dense anyway. These changes are worthwhile to budding corps but not so profitable to 0.0 corps to warrant expanding into low sec. 0.0 alliances don't normally run missions and have no time to mine the mid grade ores, nor do they usually NPC trade much. What do you think of these ideas?
mazzilliu Caldari Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.11.13 21:24:00 - [42] welll if they are going to introduce those 0.0 sentry guns, might as well make lowsec more profitable. it's definitely more dangerous then a lot of alliance space atm. though i think a much better system would be a more complex dynamic one that reduces and increases belt rat and ore quality based on how hard its been farmed recently, and keep the same concord in highsec, sentries in lowsec, and nothings in 0.0. it permanently ensures that the safest places are the least profitable and wherever it is most dangerous at the time, it is the most profitable, no matter what the current politics of the area are atm. 1000% awesome guide to logging out
hobieone Caldari Intergalactic Commerce Union	Posted - 2006.11.13 21:46:00 - [43] yes, i agree tho something definatly needs to be done to make it more worth while to enter low sec. my prob with gate camps is normaqlly if i go into low sec it mainly to peck a fight to break up the boredom of mission running. yes i admit i'm as mission runner primarily but do dabble in pvp from time to time and trying to fight through a gate camp isn't worth just going into low sec for some bounty hunting on some pirate or to get the drop on someone for an ocaasional pvp action. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Alekseyev Karrde The Royal Guard	Posted - 2006.11.13 21:48:00 - [44] Could add CONCORDish bounties to gate camping pirates. And not just the pods, but ships to. There are alot of anti-pirate corps in EVE and coming from one of them, i can tell you: Fun yes. Profitable no. If there's incentive for the players to go out and organize+risk the rescources needed to break a pirate gatecamp, then low sec will be better. The pirates will still camp, but now at least there's incentive to fight them rather than wait till they get bored or give up all together, as many empire dwellers do.
Lord WarATron Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.13 21:50:00 - [45] Perhaps more trade goods, to get people into low sec to haul it out. Perhaps even freightor sized goods, i.e 100,000m3 items, to get more freightors into low sec --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.13 21:51:00 - [46] Originally by: Lord WarATron Perhaps even freightor sized goods, i.e 100,000m3 items, to get more freightors into low sec Gooooooooooooooooood idea! -------------------- \0/\0/\0/\0/\0/ Cant we all just get along? Wheres EVE heading?
Rorix Whitecloud Caldari Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.13 22:02:00 - [47] This is just responding to OP. The problem with the proposal is this: At first, lots of "carebears" would go into low sec because of the massive profitability. Soon after, lots of pirates will go into low sec because of the large numbers of "carebears" there. Soon after that, there will be so many pirates there that the "carebears" realize that despite the profitability of low sec, the risks just isnt worth it, and they will go back to high sec, returning us to the problem we have right now. Alternatively, Daos and I have proposed an idea to repopulate low sec, just clicky on the link in my sig. We'd love to hear your thoughts on it, DS :) Repopulate Low Security! Goal: To blaster-fit every Caldari ship with a gun slot! :D
Ben Derindar Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.11.13 22:05:00 - [48] Originally by: Serapis Aote Dont move all good agents to low sec. Dont force people to have to go there. Make it so they want to go there because it is worth it. It currently isnt worth it. But if L4 agents were all moved to low-sec, don't you think it'd be worth it then? /Ben How to fix Eve
Lord WarATron Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.13 22:56:00 - [49] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 13/11/2006 22:56:52 Originally by: Godar Marak Originally by: Lord WarATron Perhaps even freightor sized goods, i.e 100,000m3 items, to get more freightors into low sec Gooooooooooooooooood idea! The more I think about it - the better it gets. Freightors pilots hiring pvp escorts in order to grab trading gear from a "stratigicly placed" station which has tradegoods worth something. As for lvl4 mission runners, I think moving lvl4 agents to low sec will just nerf 0.0 officer loot, as people will just take t2 setups to run lvl4's insted. My suggestion is that low sec lvl4 agents need a big boost, to put them back to what they used to be bounty wise, then you will get people risking their ass. And I say this as a 0.0/low sec lvl4 runner myself :) --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2006.11.13 23:14:00 - [50] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 13/11/2006 16:51:57 Bear with me, this is just a crazy thought I had a minute ago. Currently, people complain that there is no reason to go to low sec. There have been all sorts of radical ideas tossed around, like moving all level 4s to low sec and so on. Of course, the mission runners complain because honestly, low sec is more dangerous even than 0.0 in many cases. So here's the crazy idea... make low sec more profitable than 0.0. It fits in perfectly with the risk vs reward concept and would revitalize piracy as a whole (even with 0km warp) because people would have reason to actually mine the belts or kill the NPCs: they wouldn't solely go to low sec because of autopilot. Am I crazy? Or might this actually work? Here is the thing why this prolly will never work and is one of eve pitfalls. The moment you make it truly worth the risk for the casual or solo player, is the moment it becomes OOODLES of easy money for an organized corp. Problem is right now that low sec/empire is really just for solo/casual play/very small corp types, so it doesnt take alot to make it dangerous. to make it worth the risk of losing a 500mill ship you goto seriously jack the rewards up, because it is for more easy to loose a Mission or mining set up ship in low sec than it is in 0.0, primarily due to the fact you will have alot of people in the system in low sec where as people find empty systems in 0.0 and use local to alert to danger, in low sec msot systems have too many names to know when it is really safe. So with a system actively pirated in low sec your can be sure to loose a ship every ten runs easily. What kinda reward you need to make ground on paying for a 200 mill BS set up every 10 runs? Heck i will wager more than every 10 to be honest.
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2006.11.13 23:16:00 - [51] "Maybe I just don't know enough about the game yet, but these "increase low sec population" threads all seem to amount to people set for PvP wanting more people set for mining and PvE (read: easy meat) as targets." LOL, yes that is the exact nature of the problem in eve. you got a set of players in pvp set up ships and gangs, wanting to have people in none pvp ships/gangs handed to them on a platter to be pk'd, instead of them actively hunting other people in pvp set ups.
Jason Kildaro Minmatar Synergy Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.14 01:32:00 - [52] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 "Maybe I just don't know enough about the game yet, but these "increase low sec population" threads all seem to amount to people set for PvP wanting more people set for mining and PvE (read: easy meat) as targets." LOL, yes that is the exact nature of the problem in eve. you got a set of players in pvp set up ships and gangs, wanting to have people in none pvp ships/gangs handed to them on a platter to be pk'd, instead of them actively hunting other people in pvp set ups. There is a misconception about low sec. Is it more dangerous than Empire....yes. Will you get ganked every 10 missions? No. I am not a pirate or gate camper and I have lived in low sec for a while now. It is not as bad as some of you make it out to be. Do I have to watch myself on travels to the gate....sure do. Do I have to check the map every once in a while to make sure I'm not running into a snipe fest...yes. But in general, I don't lose ships in missions. I don't have to run around with a gang either. Now my area of space is probably quieter than most so it may be an exception to the rule. Not everybody is looking for a gank. Some of live out there because it is not sooo crowded and me personally, I like the sense of danger. I hate being in this MMO and not doing things with other players. I get more player interaction out here. What I am looking for is a market. I hate running to Empire and trying to sell stuff off at a hub with 500 other people. I have a dream of making MORE regional markets. I think most people will find there is good business to be built out here.
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction	Posted - 2006.11.14 01:45:00 - [53] Originally by: Rod Blaine Instead, low sec empire should simply remain the intermediate risk place it is (intermediate on a group level, not neccesarily on an individual level), but be graced with some unique resources that are part of integrated production chains. Preferably resources that do not involve instances or semi-afk POS management to extract. I would tend to agree, but low sec has no unique resources. On the one hand it offers partial protection, through sentry guns, sec loss and incompatibility with warp bubbles and interdictor spheres. On the other hand, it reduces the flexibility of people wishing to fight defensively. So the intermediate security aspect is a double-edges sword which suits some people and not others. In this respect is is a perfect buffer between high sec Empire and 0.0. But without offering anything to positively differentiate itself from Alliance 0.0 and high sec Empire, it becomes a no-man's land, a travel time sink, and gate sniper risk to most EVE players. I think more thought needs to be given as to what it is for, and where it fits into the EVE economy.
Ituralde Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.14 02:00:00 - [54] I like the idea of adding higher ore quality to Lowsec... that would encourage specifically defenseless miners and pirates to hunt them. As it is now, its pointless to mine in lowsec near enough. Fear is the mind-killer.
Kristoffer Amarr Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2006.11.14 02:25:00 - [55] I agree.
Siriyana Astrum Contract Services Group	Posted - 2006.11.14 02:32:00 - [56] Originally by: Jason Kildaro Not everybody is looking for a gank. Some of live out there because it is not sooo crowded and me personally, I like the sense of danger. I hate being in this MMO and not doing things with other players. I get more player interaction out here. What I am looking for is a market. I hate running to Empire and trying to sell stuff off at a hub with 500 other people. I have a dream of making MORE regional markets. I think most people will find there is good business to be built out here. You'd be surprised at how much YARRRRRRRBBQ'ers are willing to pay for gear in low sec, especially when they are outlaws. :) ----- CEO, Astrum Contract Services Group
Valator Uel Caldari Pax Minor Asylum Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2006.11.14 03:12:00 - [57] Low-sec is a typical catch-22 situation: - A player sees better isk can be made in low sec - Pirates see the player and gank him - Player decides low-sec isn't worth it and moves out - Pirate complains low-sec is empty In a way I compare this to today's wildlife conservations efforts: you can either harvest a crop till nothing is left or leave enough to regrow for the next harvest. Yes ladies and gentlement, pirates should think like enviromentalists and oversee that their resource isn't hunted dry. If you have 20 pirate corps and alliances all fighting over a couple of systems then carebears will stay away. But if you have a pirate corp/alliance making sure that thier system is free of "other pirates" and thus considered safer (ie, inticing carebears to take more risks) then the population will start growing. Carebears don't pop out of nowhere, you have to make them want to come there. As for moving agents to low-sec, imo that's a very shortsighted and selfish idea. All the tools to kill carebears in empire are there, you just need to want to spend a few for wars. Nothing is for free. It's also selfish because not everyone wants to do full-time pvp. What makes EVE so unique is that there are so many ways it can be played. 24/7 players have time to plan things like POS's, get enough cash to pvp, take part in big alliance events etc etc. But remember that there are also those that play this game casually. A friend of mine for example only plays an hour or two per week, sometimes even less. He doesn't have time to make millions of isk, so pvp represents a heavy investment for him, and thus being ganked by 5 ships at a gate really spoils the game for him. Others like myself can invest a few more hours and buy a couple of T1 fitted cruisers, pvp a bit and then carebear till I got more isk. To encourage people to go to low-sec don't remove all the benifits of high-sec. Instead of removing level 4 agents just make different missions for high-sec and better ones for low sec (Worlds Collide is a good example). Low-sec agents already give a considerable amount of extra pay and LP. Introduce better missions that don't exist in high-sec and people will start moving. Bubbles in low-sec... bad idea if implemented "as-is". For haulers, bubbles mean certain death... and you want haulers in low sec. Carebears won't enter low-sec if they know there is a chance of certain death. Without going into a winding discussion, it all boils down to: give those who want to avoid fights the modules to do so, give pirates the tools to catch them, but neither of these should have a 100% chance of success. And don't give me the "get an alt scout" crap; I should be able to play this game with a single character. ----------------------------------------------- http://www.uozone.net/files/cic/val4_eve.jpg Signature filesize exceeds max limit of 24000 bytes. Mail us if you have questions -Eldo
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.11.14 03:14:00 - [58] ineffective bubbles in low sec perhaps 10% jamming chance
Maximillian Pele Caldari Jewel Enterprises	Posted - 2006.11.14 05:17:00 - [59] Edited by: Maximillian Pele on 14/11/2006 05:18:21 I was thinking about this issue the other night. Why does a corp go all the way to 0.0 to mine for zydrine when you can get it in low sec? Why is mining in 0.0 safer than 0.4? Answer - people. The low sec PvP crowd - pirates, the odd anti-pirate, PvPers, etc - are really good at what they do. Without the hassle of maintaining POSes or Sovereignty in 0.0, and with the markets of hi-sec just a few jumps away, your low sec PvPer can concentrate on what they love - PvP. So Just as certain alliances are the best at what they do, certain low sec PvP groups are the best at what they do. Then add the security system. In 0.0 I can fire at anyone I want. In low sec - if I want to keep my sec rating high enough to go to high sec (without sending hours ratting while the corp waits) - I have to wait to be aggressed first. Hence unless I am in low sec to PvP, the deck is heavily stacked against me. Now compare the relative rewards of high/low/no sec. With the exception of lone wolf or small gang PvPing low sec has the worst reward <> risk ratio in EvE if you are doing anything else. NPCing - dead meat to a PvP ship + the rat bounties aren't high enough to make sharing worthwhile. Mining - either ninja mine or don't bother. If you have the organisation to mine as a group with adequate cover to defend against pirate attack then you'll do it in 0.0 and make far more isk for the same efforts. Hauling - escorts of limited use unless in large numbers. Best defence against snipers is scout alts and not hitting the camp. Territorial defence - apart from a handful of systems there are always NPC stations so you can't really keep people out. Proactive ganking of non <4.9 threats ruins your sec rating and criminally flags you. A PvP force strong enough to secure a low sec system is again better used in 0.0. So the problem always is the fact that anyone who can survive and prosper in low sec can do alot better in 0.0. Note: Those high sec ice fields are actually diminishing - it's just that ice roids are so big and ice mining so slow they'll take years to all pop. Note: missions are one of the major sources of funds for PvPers - so if you nerf missions you will hurt both pirates and PvPers who need another source of income to support their main activities. The reason why low sec is such a loss and CCP seems little interested in fixing it is the fact that it is players who provide the risk/disincentives. Hence any adjustment to the risk is an adjustment to players. All CCP can do is tweak the rewards, but if you make the rewards to great either the alliances move in or you get the ever present plague of isk farming. It will be interesting to see the combined impacts of warp to 0 km, the 50% HP increase, the WCS nerf and the other changes that may be coming in Kali 1. Possibily this whole topic will become moot, maybe not. In times of doubt I ask myself "What would BoB do?", and then do the opposite.
Sakura Nihil Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.14 07:17:00 - [60] Originally by: Siriyana Originally by: Jason Kildaro Not everybody is looking for a gank. Some of live out there because it is not sooo crowded and me personally, I like the sense of danger. I hate being in this MMO and not doing things with other players. I get more player interaction out here. What I am looking for is a market. I hate running to Empire and trying to sell stuff off at a hub with 500 other people. I have a dream of making MORE regional markets. I think most people will find there is good business to be built out here. You'd be surprised at how much YARRRRRRRBBQ'ers are willing to pay for gear in low sec, especially when they are outlaws. :) QFT, from experience - alt hauling sucks and wastes valuable YARRR time. "Titans were never meant to be cost-effective, they're a huge ****" - Oveur
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.14 07:27:00 - [61] Remove all ice fields from 0.5+ systems. Make Lvl 1 Agents 0.0-1.0 Make Lvl 2 Agents 0.0-0.8 Make Lvl 3 Agents 0.0-0.6 Make Lvl 4 Agents 0.0-0.4 Make Lvl 5 Agents 0.0-0.2 Make Mercoxite a 0.1-0.4 only ore. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender What is your opinion?
Rorix Whitecloud Caldari Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.14 09:07:00 - [62] Originally by: Valator Uel Low-sec is a typical catch-22 situation: - A player sees better isk can be made in low sec - Pirates see the player and gank him - Player decides low-sec isn't worth it and moves out - Pirate complains low-sec is empty In a way I compare this to today's wildlife conservations efforts: you can either harvest a crop till nothing is left or leave enough to regrow for the next harvest. Yes ladies and gentlement, pirates should think like enviromentalists and oversee that their resource isn't hunted dry. If you have 20 pirate corps and alliances all fighting over a couple of systems then carebears will stay away. But if you have a pirate corp/alliance making sure that thier system is free of "other pirates" and thus considered safer (ie, inticing carebears to take more risks) then the population will start growing. Carebears don't pop out of nowhere, you have to make them want to come there. Yeah, thats essentially what we proposed in our low sec proposal... clicky and read it! :D Repopulate Low Security! Goal: To blaster-fit every Caldari ship with a gun slot! :D
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.14 09:33:00 - [63] Originally by: Donna Darko Originally by: Ingols There isn't enough negative reprecussions to piracy (like permanant security loss)... Oh, please... What if your favorite action in the game "punished" you with permanent security loss? How long would you play? Hell, even real life is more lenient than you. Oh please, explain to me how I can recover that -3 with diplomacy with Caldari and I will accept that -3 security standing can be esaily fixed. The only way is volountari failure in storyline mission, so if I lose 6 points of Federation standing I can go to 0 with Caldari. A great solution.
Rorix Whitecloud Caldari Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.14 09:35:00 - [64] Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Donna Darko Originally by: Ingols There isn't enough negative reprecussions to piracy (like permanant security loss)... Oh, please... What if your favorite action in the game "punished" you with permanent security loss? How long would you play? Hell, even real life is more lenient than you. Oh please, explain to me how I can recover that -3 with diplomacy with Caldari and I will accept that -3 security standing can be esaily fixed. The only way is volountari failure in storyline mission, so if I lose 6 points of Federation standing I can go to 0 with Caldari. A great solution. not entirely sure, but maybe shoot lots of gurista rats? Repopulate Low Security! Goal: To blaster-fit every Caldari ship with a gun slot! :D
Wild Rho Amarr Black Omega Security	Posted - 2006.11.14 09:56:00 - [65] Don't really agree. With low sec being more profitable than 0.0 there is basically no incentive to colonise 0.0 systems and even less incentive to spread out to the fringes. Having your own little empire wouldn't be incentive enough to move out to an area with less income, more hassle (pos, outposts etc) hen you can simply base yourself out of a free npc station and forcibly eject any local residents (as far as that's possible in eve). However, giving low sec some unique resources that cannot be found in both high sec or 0.0 would be an interesting path to take to encourage more traffic. Possible options could be the new resources involved in production of boosters and similar new entities being added in kali. It would make such resources available to all player types will take to the risks in low sec and the danger involved in acquiring it would make it potentially profitable to attempt to acquire it. I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.14 09:58:00 - [66] No, killing ships don't increase your standing with an Empire, only lower it with the faction losing the ship. That is the reason for the low Caldari/Amarr standing of most Gallente/Minmatar, and viceversa. Wile it is possible to keep in cheek the losses alterning the Faction for wich you do missions, as soon as you do combat missions, the standing start to drop. I have seen a lot of bad/self serving suggestion in this thread, mixed with some good one. As I see it, the problem is simple, but the solution is very hard. To keep a sistem reasonably safe from pirates you need to patrol it 23/7 with a decent force, while a pirate of a group of them need to be on line for 1 hour to disrupt all the work done. So a defensive force has a huge disavantage unless it can muster at least 3-4 PvP pilot at every time of the day. The off line pirate is totally safe, so it is relatively easy for them setting up a pirating operation. There is some regional difference too. As I want to rise my standing with Republic navy I am spending time in a low sec sistem in Minmatar space. In 4 days I have been locked 1 time and no one has fired on me. If I did the same thing in Gallente space I would have a combat or near miss every day at least.
LexaKosh	Posted - 2006.11.14 10:08:00 - [67] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 13/11/2006 16:51:57 Currently, people complain that there is no reason to go to low sec. Am I crazy? Or might this actually work? So, basically, you want to reduce the income of industrialised 0.0 who have high-end mins/loot/pos products as their main export. And want to reduce the income in empire dwellers who have mission running as main source of income. What is that? Some kind of reverse-IDEC principle? Screw the many for the benefit of the few.
Aodha Khan Minmatar The Necroborg The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2006.11.14 10:20:00 - [68] I would make low sec more profitable but not as much as 0.0. So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak.
murder one Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.14 10:33:00 - [69] Crazy Idea #488... Right now I'm totally 100% against Warp to 0km. Why? because I get a TON of kills at gates/stations. Why? Because that is the ONLY time I can even get at a target, at all. Players fly from gate to mission to gate. That's it. I can't get them during a mission, since they're off-plain, so I'm stuck with killing them at the gate with my short ranged BS. So my suggestion: in addition to making all mission runners scannable/probeable, make the missions occur in/near belts and other celestial objects, so that people have a little more access to the mission runners. In addition to this, put all L3 and L4 missions in .4 or less, and increase the rat bounties and mineral content of .1-.4 sec systems dramatically, while removing the equivilant mins/rat bounties out of high-sec. I agree with others that low-sec should be the most profitable resource rich area in Eve. Why? Because alliances provide quite a bit of safety in 0.0 and you can fly around in 0.0 all day long without seeing hardly anyone as long as you don't venture near any major chokepoints. Low sec needs to be the connection between the two environments, where the two cultures meet. If warp to 0km were implemented, but missions took place in/near belts etc., then there would be less chance (literally zero chance) of players being killed in gate camps, but much more risk during the actual mission itself. I don't take any joy from killing players at gates, but they leave me no choice. If I had another way, I would definitely take it. Because I said so...
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.14 10:56:00 - [70] Originally by: murder one I don't take any joy from killing players at gates, but they leave me no choice. If I had another way, I would definitely take it. You don't gind jpy in it but you do it on sufference? It is so profitable ganking Pve or miners? Originally by: murder one So my suggestion: in addition to making all mission runners scannable/probeable, Exactly what is done on Revelation. Originally by: murder one make the missions occur in/near belts and other celestial objects, so that people have a little more access to the mission runners. In addition to this, put all L3 and L4 missions in .4 or less, and increase the rat bounties and mineral content of .1-.4 sec systems dramatically, while removing the equivilant mins/rat bounties out of high-sec. So you want mission runner in easy reach, easy to find and well tenderized by the rats. Very easy for you. Ah, and don't forget, no level 3 and 4 in high security, so the mission runner have destroyers at most. Figthing one in a cruiser can be bothersome. You only have easy access to faction loot. Originally by: murder one Low sec needs to be the connection between the two environments, where the two cultures meet. If warp to 0km were implemented, but missions took place in/near belts etc., then there would be less chance (literally zero chance) of players being killed in gate camps, but much more risk during the actual mission itself. Ever looked the time needed to align an industrial? or a PvE fitted BS? With little o no sensor bosters you can lock and warp scramble your target before it warp away, so kill at gates will be as plenty as before. And for all the thread: Reveleation will get a increase in content, more than 0.0 and much more than empire.
Irrilian Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2006.11.14 11:02:00 - [71] Speaking from experience Im not sure about forcing mission runners etc into low sec, but certainly making it more attractive sounds a good idea (not specifically more attractive than 0.0, just a lot more attractive than it is now). It would be nice if CCP took a look at the distribution of high quality agents. Perhaps Ive just been working for the wrong corps, but the often repeated adage that all the best agents are in low sec doesnÆt seem to work for me. My best level 4 agent is in a 0.5 system, ignoring the poor quality agent in Syndicate (mission running in Syndicate, no thanks) the best low sec agent I have is actually next door to the best high sec one, in a 0.4 but with a pretty appalling quality. Though the mission ISK rewards are a little better, I get half the loyalty points with the low sec agent and frankly the loot is just as bad with the high sec agent. I intend to stick it out a little longer to see if I can boost the effective quality of this poor low sec agent enough to make the rewards worth the risk, but otherwise Id be better off going back to high sec where I can run missions faster and with a lot less risk (less npc risk too as I can optimise my tank for them rather than having a nod to being able to defend myself against a pvp outfitted ship). Id also question if there is enough low sec to go around, backwater constellation and systems that arent on a busy pipe to somewhere else. The inhabitants of 0.0 sensibly veer away non pvp activities from gateway systems and pipes, yet as a low sec inhabitant I pretty much have to put up with the risk of a constant stream of people moving through. Moreover with Kali the new scanning system will making it incredibly easy to hunt down mission runners, there will be little player skill needed to probe out my mission, thus Ill be faced with even more risk. Unfortunately rather than relying upon quality ai and rats, ccp seems to rely upon quantity of dumb ai rats to make up the challenge. The consequence of this is that to be actually capable of dealing with the lag inducing swarms of npcs I have to fit a tank that no sensible pvper would dream of, leaving me pretty venerable in real combat. It would be nice if somehow pve was a closer approximation of pvp (unless youÆre fighting Goonswarm), however distant rather than being the strange artificial thing it is now.
Perani	Posted - 2006.11.14 11:11:00 - [72] Originally by: Kakk0 Warui Also, there should be an option for people to run the same mission together. Does anyone know why this is not the case?
Perani	Posted - 2006.11.14 11:18:00 - [73] Edited by: Perani on 14/11/2006 11:18:29 Originally by: murder one Crazy Idea #488... So my suggestion: in addition to making all mission runners scannable/probeable, make the missions occur in/near belts and other celestial objects, so that people have a little more access to the mission runners. In addition to this, put all L3 and L4 missions in .4 or less, and increase the rat bounties and mineral content of .1-.4 sec systems dramatically, while removing the equivilant mins/rat bounties out of high-sec. This idea seems brutal. Wouldn't this just force high sec players to join 0.0 alliances instead? Edit: spelling
Perani	Posted - 2006.11.14 11:34:00 - [74] Originally by: Irrilian Unfortunately rather than relying upon quality ai and rats, ccp seems to rely upon quantity of dumb ai rats to make up the challenge. The consequence of this is that to be actually capable of dealing with the lag inducing swarms of npcs I have to fit a tank that no sensible pvper would dream of, leaving me pretty venerable in real combat. It would be nice if somehow pve was a closer approximation of pvp (unless youÆre fighting Goonswarm), however distant rather than being the strange artificial thing it is now. I agree with this assessment. I am only doing level 3 missions now, but the sheer shock of changing from 2 to 3 has left me permanent mental scars. The AI in the game is subpar, just about the only thing separating level 2 and level 3 missions are the sheer amount of DPS my rig must withstand, and from what I understand, level 4 is not much better. This is indeed a problem where pvp combat is expected at somepoint in a pilot's life. The missions 1. have no variablity 2. have dumb AI and aggro rules that do not stimulate intelligent play 3. have no relevance to pvp combat. I can't say much for others, but for me, the biggest obstacle for me to want to venture into low sec are lack of capital and lack of experience. Some of the solutions previously suggested wanted to even stem this high sec ISK gain further, how do the new pilots with no experience and no wallet feel about going to low sec to make money? How about we make the missions smarter, more tactical, and more pvp training related? How about having missions that throw players against intelligent scripts piloting ships that players use in pvp. And variability please.
Uggster Caldari Never'where	Posted - 2006.11.14 11:36:00 - [75] There is one idea that has not been tabled..... Leave low-sec as the wasteland it is. It's the badlands of the old Buck Rogers, the Cursed Earth of Judge Dread, the Reaper space of Serenity and even the no-go areas of cities here on earth right now (certain South American cities have gang controled areas for instance and also areas of cities like Bagdad). The only change that really needs to be made is the avalibility of contraband items in low sec. Slaves, Drugs, Guns, Chemical nasties etc should be avalible in certain systems (0.1 or 0.2 pahaps) that are in the middle of low sec areas, this would mean that a trip there could be very profitable IF your willing to take the risk and know what you are doing. It would also add a certain "something" to the area...Seedy space bars where life guns and drugs are all cheap...I think you get the picture. _______________________________________________ Sig removed as inappropriate- Tirg Story of my life that one :(
Glorificus	Posted - 2006.11.14 11:52:00 - [76] What about having a chance of concord showing up when someone is attacked in low sec based on the security sec of the system. -4 20% chance -3 15% -2 10% -1 5% Makes sense that low sec would have some kind of Concord presence but not all the time. Kinda like a random patrol or something.
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2006.11.14 12:32:00 - [77] Nope all wrong....best way to get people out to low sec and 0.0 is DO AWAY WITH LEVEL 2-4 MISSIONS, thats right get arid of them. There is no reason for a mission runner to leave empire. Move level four missions and they will drop down to level three. These people DO NOT WANT to play the same game you and I play in low sec/0.0. They want NOTHING to do with PvP combat. They want their social PvE envioment where they have little to no risk of running into a ganker. Missions have hurt the player ran economy more then any tech II BPO. Missions have just about destroyed the Player made ship equipment market. Missions have drawn the people willing to mine, to do missions, thus opening up the belts for the sweat shop players of Eve-online. No moving level 4 agents to low security wont work. Cause they wont use them. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Miklas Laces A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A	Posted - 2006.11.14 12:45:00 - [78] Originally by: Dark ShikariSo here's the crazy idea... make low sec more profitable than 0.0. It fits in perfectly with the risk vs reward concept and would revitalize piracy as a whole (even with 0km warp) because people would have reason to actually mine the belts or kill the NPCs: they wouldn't solely go to low sec because of autopilot.[/quote My take on this: 1) make all missions less profitable, removing bounties from deadspace rats. Money would come from rewards, loot and loyalty points. 2) give better spawns to low sec belts, up to 650k battleships 3) npc battleship bounties in 0.0 would start from 800k
Samirol Ore Mongers	Posted - 2006.11.14 13:07:00 - [79] the people that arent already in low sec/0.0 wouldnt go there if the holy grail was in low sec. no matter how much you poke or prod, they like doing their stuff in safety. good thinking, but bad idea.
Wotar	Posted - 2006.11.14 13:36:00 - [80] Originally by: Roshan longshot Nope all wrong....best way to get people out to low sec and 0.0 is DO AWAY WITH LEVEL 2-4 MISSIONS, thats right get arid of them. There is no reason for a mission runner to leave empire. Move level four missions and they will drop down to level three. These people DO NOT WANT to play the same game you and I play in low sec/0.0. They want NOTHING to do with PvP combat. They want their social PvE envioment where they have little to no risk of running into a ganker. Missions have hurt the player ran economy more then any tech II BPO. Missions have just about destroyed the Player made ship equipment market. Missions have drawn the people willing to mine, to do missions, thus opening up the belts for the sweat shop players of Eve-online. No moving level 4 agents to low security wont work. Cause they wont use them. This is horse-sh1t. I do missions - not all the time, but I do them a lot. And you claim that this means I want 'NOTHING' (caps ftw) to do with pvp? So when I go out actively looking for a scrap, what is that? I'm imagining that? A hallucination of some sort? Please, stop trying to pigeonhole people. Nothing in Eve is black and white, ok? Btw your idea of removing all but level 1 agents is not a good idea to get more people into low-sec. Its a good idea to make a lot of people leave the game.
Wotar	Posted - 2006.11.14 13:38:00 - [81] Originally by: hobieone the main reson people don't go to low sec and it been explained over and over again and again is the idiots that insist on gate camping to the point that it totally useless to even enter low sec becuase it become suicide to even remotely try with any ship configuration. No, the reason is that they think low-sec is like that, because people like you tell them so! In reality, most of low-sec is deserted.
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2006.11.14 14:07:00 - [82] Originally by: Wotar Originally by: Roshan longshot Nope all wrong....best way to get people out to low sec and 0.0 is DO AWAY WITH LEVEL 2-4 MISSIONS, thats right get arid of them. There is no reason for a mission runner to leave empire. Move level four missions and they will drop down to level three. These people DO NOT WANT to play the same game you and I play in low sec/0.0. They want NOTHING to do with PvP combat. They want their social PvE envioment where they have little to no risk of running into a ganker. Missions have hurt the player ran economy more then any tech II BPO. Missions have just about destroyed the Player made ship equipment market. Missions have drawn the people willing to mine, to do missions, thus opening up the belts for the sweat shop players of Eve-online. No moving level 4 agents to low security wont work. Cause they wont use them. This is horse-sh1t. I do missions - not all the time, but I do them a lot. And you claim that this means I want 'NOTHING' (caps ftw) to do with pvp? So when I go out actively looking for a scrap, what is that? I'm imagining that? A hallucination of some sort? Please, stop trying to pigeonhole people. Nothing in Eve is black and white, ok? Btw your idea of removing all but level 1 agents is not a good idea to get more people into low-sec. Its a good idea to make a lot of people leave the game. Well then they should have never came here in the first place, this game is NOT about solo missions, in a two or three man corp. Its about Empire building, not solo play. And as for a good idea to make alot of people leave? Yeah sounds good to me. So take your alt poster here and go find a nice little PVE social envioment to play in. The only ones I see leaving are the E-Bayers, isk sellers, and yes the isk buyers. The rest of us that play this game the way its supposed to be played, well we wont miss those people. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Kakk0 Warui	Posted - 2006.11.14 14:30:00 - [83] Quote: Well then they should have never came here in the first place, this game is NOT about solo missions, in a two or three man corp. Its about Empire building, not solo play. And who are you to decide how others should or should not spend their game time? Your sig seems to suggest you would be an advocate of anyone trying to make their way in the game in any way they deem fit. No limitations. Turns out you just want people to play in a way that works for you. Score another post for ôgive me easy targets pleaseö.
Wotar	Posted - 2006.11.14 14:50:00 - [84] Originally by: Roshan longshot Well then they should have never came here in the first place, this game is NOT about solo missions, in a two or three man corp. Its about Empire building, not solo play. Yawn. If CCP didnt intend people to run missions, why exactly are there missions in the game? Originally by: Roshan longshot And as for a good idea to make alot of people leave? Yeah sounds good to me. So take your alt poster here and go find a nice little PVE social envioment to play in. Again: yawn. I just told you I go out and solo pvp for fun, why would I want a PVE environment? Also, I think so busy parroting the same old crap you've heard the big boys saying that you're losing sight of the facts: CCP is a business. You might say 'good, let them leave' but I doubt CCP are having meetings to decide how to make carebears quit the game, don't you? Originally by: Roshan longshot The only ones I see leaving are the E-Bayers, isk sellers, and yes the isk buyers. The rest of us that play this game the way its supposed to be played, well we wont miss those people. Again, you're making assumptions about 'the way its supposed to be played'. Congrats, I think you fulfilled every single cliche.
Wotar	Posted - 2006.11.14 14:52:00 - [85] Originally by: Kakk0 Warui Quote: Well then they should have never came here in the first place, this game is NOT about solo missions, in a two or three man corp. Its about Empire building, not solo play. And who are you to decide how others should or should not spend their game time? Your sig seems to suggest you would be an advocate of anyone trying to make their way in the game in any way they deem fit. No limitations. Turns out you just want people to play in a way that works for you. Score another post for ôgive me easy targets pleaseö. Totally. He's just a self-contradiction, regurgitating the same old rubbish that he doesnt even believe in. Wait for the 'risk v reward' mantra next
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2006.11.14 14:52:00 - [86] Originally by: Kakk0 Warui Quote: Well then they should have never came here in the first place, this game is NOT about solo missions, in a two or three man corp. Its about Empire building, not solo play. And who are you to decide how others should or should not spend their game time? Your sig seems to suggest you would be an advocate of anyone trying to make their way in the game in any way they deem fit. No limitations. Turns out you just want people to play in a way that works for you. Score another post for ôgive me easy targets pleaseö. LOL you "!" make me laugh...Pirate? Me? Three years ago, when it was possible to be one, and not sit at a gate. Manufacture? I did real well till missions came out and droped better loot then I was allowed to make. Mission runner? Yeah did that also...boaring as hell, stupid lady kept getting kidnaped... I have done everything in the game you can think of, scams, ganks, griefed, pirate, corptheft (wait I aint done that...yet) ore theft, you name it. No I dont go looking for easy targets...with a 4.7 security rate that should tell ya all there is about me. I have no use for Empire space, none at all past the solar system I have a jump clone in. Missions have ruined my game play in Empire space, so I dont go there anymore. I have two alts I have no idea where in empire they are located, cause I cant stand the thought of logging them on in empire space. Missions where somthing hardly anyone did for along time, so the rewards were great, like the miner II bpo. Then they added the missions, the game became reduntant and boaring, instead of minning, or patroling, people rather go and do a mission. I can make about 200 million in my twenty hours of game time a week, doing level three missions. Or about 150 million ratting in 0.0. Where would you go? Mission hurt this game, sure they brought thousands of people here, but in the long run, they hurt it. Take a look at the map, and your see. Where are the big blobs? Empire space, nice safe and secure. Market if full of loot from these missions, and the only player made items that sell are tech II and ships. So do I have a hardon against missions? Yeah, do I run missions anymore? No. Will I keep posting my dislike for missions? You betcha Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
monkiboi Minmatar Love and Rockets	Posted - 2006.11.14 15:16:00 - [87] I don't think low sec needs to be more profitable than 0.0. I do think what it needs to be is different from high sec empire and 0.0. Maybe (and please note - i'm using this as an example only) make bounty hunting a low sec profession where the hunter gets less of a security hit than normal for instance. Add in an industry based profession that's attractive to those player styles and maybe it'll be seen as an acceptable risk vs reward scenario that won't diminish the attractiveness of 0.0. Maybe.
Kakk0 Warui	Posted - 2006.11.14 15:16:00 - [88] Quote: LOL you "!" make me laugh...Pirate? Me? Three years ago, when it was possible to be one, and not sit at a gate. Manufacture? I did real well till missions came out and droped better loot then I was allowed to make. Mission runner? Yeah did that also...boaring as hell, stupid lady kept getting kidnaped... I have done everything in the game you can think of, scams, ganks, griefed, pirate, corptheft (wait I aint done that...yet) ore theft, you name it....[snip] Nice rant. Which part of it exactly gives you the right to tell someone else how the game should be played? Perhaps you could highlight it for me, us "!"'s are a little slow.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.14 16:02:00 - [89] Originally by: Roshan longshot Nope all wrong....best way to get people out to low sec and 0.0 is DO AWAY WITH LEVEL 2-4 MISSIONS, thats right get arid of them. There is no reason for a mission runner to leave empire. Move level four missions and they will drop down to level three. These people DO NOT WANT to play the same game you and I play in low sec/0.0. They want NOTHING to do with PvP combat. They want their social PvE envioment where they have little to no risk of running into a ganker. Missions have hurt the player ran economy more then any tech II BPO. Missions have just about destroyed the Player made ship equipment market. Missions have drawn the people willing to mine, to do missions, thus opening up the belts for the sweat shop players of Eve-online. No moving level 4 agents to low security wont work. Cause they wont use them. If this is the idea, make a PvP server and a unrelated PvE one, and you can have your pure environment, no miners, no mission runners and 100 players . Add a fee to move a character from a server to the other. Maybe you get 1000 players.
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2006.11.14 16:36:00 - [90] Originally by: Wotar Originally by: Kakk0 Warui Quote: Well then they should have never came here in the first place, this game is NOT about solo missions, in a two or three man corp. Its about Empire building, not solo play. And who are you to decide how others should or should not spend their game time? Your sig seems to suggest you would be an advocate of anyone trying to make their way in the game in any way they deem fit. No limitations. Turns out you just want people to play in a way that works for you. Score another post for ôgive me easy targets pleaseö. Totally. He's just a self-contradiction, regurgitating the same old rubbish that he doesnt even believe in. Wait for the 'risk v reward' mantra next Here we go..."Risk v Reward" Has got to be the worst statement ever made in Eve. Said by people who park 120k from a gate and snipe, and then run away when the hunters show up. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Onchas Erivvia Lords of Andromeda SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.14 16:41:00 - [91] I think Kali offers a bit of a potential solution for us. Now, this will take a bit of time to explain so keep patient until you read all of it. I tend to be on the side of the people who have observed that one of the things at work here is that the Pirates have out-stripped their resources. Most of the suggestions to make low-sec more profitable or to move current high-sec missions/careers to low-sec are, quite obviously, motivated by pirates looking to get more pigeons to kill. Personally, I think the problem is the piracy career is simply not fleshed out enough to make it anything more than a an opportunity to gank people and steal their loot. Although this is the essence of piracy, it's not everything. There needs to be more ways for other players to be able to act as pirate hunters and make that a viable career. The suggestions to make low-sec more profitable are, frankly, naive. People are implying that you're increasing the reward component of the risk-reward ratio, but you're not really. Because risk and reward always raise proportionately in this game when it comes to piracy. The more fat and juicey targets you're going to have the more pirates you'll have. So how does Kali offer a solution? Simple, combine the new faction-declaration system with a method of enhancing the risk assumed by pirates. Okay, so the first component of the plan is to create a system of Letters of Marquis (if you don't know what those are, time to google) and Resource Extraction Contracts. If you want to mine, you need to buy a REC from a faction (i.e., Caldari, Minmatar, Amarr, Ore etc..). Those will allow you to go mine resources from the systems within that faction's space. Those contracts should also correspond to allowing docking rights in low-sec; if you don't have a Resource Extraction Contract or a Letter of Marquis, you shouldn't be able to dock in the low-sec (and I stress low-sec) faction stations. The Letters of Marquis give you the ability to hunt another factions players within your factions low-sec systems. This essentially creates pirates into Privateers, enforcing territorial rights instead of Concord doing it, and in the name of the faction issuing the Marquis BUT also giving you rewards for hunting players in another faction's low-sec space. Just as any Pirvateer, the loot you capture and the ships should become the property of the issuing faction but you get to keep the bounty; bounties being determined by a combination of the killee's Security Rating (the general rating) and the specific Faction rating towards that individual. Killing players in Empire space (not 0.0, for obvious Alliance war reasons) of another Faction should result in significant penalties to said Factions opinions of you. So much so, that if you enter into their low-sec space you automatically get an Aggressor Flag. If you while in another faction's space so much as lock someone with a Letter of Marquis or an REC, a Beacon is activated that tags the location of the incident that people with a Letter of Marquis can see so they can run to the rescue of someone mining in that area or hauling or whatever. So the idea here is instead of using money as a way of encouraging miners and mission runners out to low-sec so they can be ganked by Pirates with PvP set-ups while their opponents are in PvE or, worse, unarmed haulers, the risk increases instead for pirates and gives people who want to hunt pirates a viable career path. I have absolutely no doubt that many of our pirate friends who are into pirating because they like seal clubbing are going to hate this idea. I have no doubt, however, that it will get more miners out into low-sec and it will get more pirate hunters into the game. This idea is fully compatible with all the ideas of adding unique Low-sec markets, with moving missions, and with changing resource (i.e. roid) locations. Making low-sec more profitable is important. But pirates should also be assuming more risk. ------------------------------------------ 'Teh Onchinator' - Lords of Andromeda <LRDS> Director & Personal Assistant to MrsPitman
Haas Fatale	Posted - 2006.11.14 16:45:00 - [92] Here's an idea for you... release many many more t2 bpo's. What might happen... More t2 bpo's mean more builders, which creates a demand for more t2 construction components, which drives up demand for moon mats, which gives industrialists more incentive to put up mining pos's in lowsec, which gives pirates more targets, which leads to all sorts of fun in lowsec. Make any sense?
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.14 17:38:00 - [93] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 14/11/2006 17:39:19 Edited by: Venkul Mul on 14/11/2006 17:38:50 Originally by: Roshan longshot Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Roshan longshot Nope all wrong....best way to get people out to low sec and 0.0 is DO AWAY WITH LEVEL 2-4 MISSIONS, thats right get arid of them. If this is the idea, make a PvP server and a unrelated PvE one, and you can have your pure environment, no miners, no mission runners and 100 players . Add a fee to move a character from a server to the other. Maybe you get 1000 players. I dont know what your going on about...All I said by moving the level four agents to low sec, wont do a thing, cause they wont use them. And they will just drop down to level three missions. Sorry? re-read what you wrote.
Rorix Whitecloud Caldari Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.14 22:18:00 - [94] Originally by: Onchas Erivvia SNIP REALLY interesting idea but with maybe a few bugs that needs ironing out... For example, whats to stop ppl that have positive standings with... for example, minmatar, to ONLY mine in minmatar space, in which the minmatar Privateers cant shoot them? Or, what if someone has positive standings to all empires? Would he then be immune to all factions' Privateers? You've obviously put a lot of thought into this, and it is pretty well thought out. I would love to hear your opinions on the low sec proposal that is linked in my sig. Repopulate Low Security! Goal: To blaster-fit every Caldari ship with a gun slot! :D
mechtech	Posted - 2006.11.14 22:43:00 - [95] I like the train of thought here, but I have a suggestion. Don't just make it better, make it different and weird! Make lowsec have a wide range of difficulty, .4 is good for T1 cruisers, and .1 is even better than the average 0.0 system. Add a new feature as well, in regards to either exploration or factional warfare.
Onchas Erivvia Lords of Andromeda SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.15 15:27:00 - [96] Edited by: Onchas Erivvia on 15/11/2006 15:29:58 Originally by: Rorix Whitecloud For example, whats to stop ppl that have positive standings with... for example, minmatar, to ONLY mine in minmatar space, in which the minmatar Privateers cant shoot them? There's nothing wrong with someone only mining in Minmatar low-sec faction space. That's a good thing. It get's people out there and mining. They'll have protection (potentially) by Minmatar Faction pirate hunters. But anyone who has, say, a Letter of Marquis from the Amarr Faction to hunt Minmatar can come along and spank them. And then, of course, there will be the pirates who hunt regardless of Letters of Marquis. Okay, so there are two aspects here I should flesh out more. You don't have to be the same race as the Faction who issues you a Letter of Marquis or a Resource Extraction Contract; so pirate corps can decide to hunt together as groups regardless of their race. It should, however, cost you far, far more to get a LoM or a REC if you're not alligned to that faction explicitly -- keep in mind this idea of allignment to a faction is an aspect of Kali's deeper Factional conflict system. Privateers won't own the loot they liberate. With the new wreck/recovery system they've got going with Kali, this can make more immediate sense. A pirate, however, will have that extra motivation of getting loot. Then there's always the possibility of adding a system whereby the Pirates can get ships outright (or component drops) and/or choose to hold the pilot at ransom. What would be ideal here, however, is to make it possible to take ships as prize (another age of sail term, basically it allows you to capture the ship). For a Privateer, the Faction sponsoring them would get the prize ship and the Privateer would be paid a certain amount as a bounty (historically a pitance of the value of the ship), but not get the ship. A pirate should not be burdened by such a problem and would get the ship or at least something juicey (i.e. a component) to sell. So with this, relatively simple, addition to the code of the game, you will see economic incentives for people to take on the hassle of being real pirates but you'll also see people take on the task of defending their faction's space. Being a pirate would be hard because it would be difficult to find safe harbour. But the economic rewards might be worth it. You can easily see pirate coalitions working to set-up POSes in low sec space or in 0.0 sectors close to low-sec where they could outfit. And, hey, being too promanent of a pirate haven should have reprocussions as well -- hmm...Alliance dreadnaught missions, that's a whole new idea. Make enough trouble from a particular haven and you get squished. The easiest "piratey" profession would be to focus on defending your own Faction's space. You'd have more support, less chance of getting attacked by opponents, a place to dock etc.. It would be a bit more challenging to roam into your factional enemy's space and hunt, but still not as hard as being a full pirate. Quote: Or, what if someone has positive standings to all empires? Would he then be immune to all factions' Privateers? I doubt that the factional system that CCP is developing will allow for that. Remember, this is just building on what they're already planning. But there are a couple of points to make, assuming you can declare Factional support to all four major Racial Factions, you're still going to be prey to pirates. Also, you can make it so that Resource Extraction Contracts are extremely expensive if you're not Factionally aligned. They should also time-out or weaken if you don't make use of them. Quote: You've obviously put a lot of thought into this, and it is pretty well thought out. I would love to hear your opinions on the low sec proposal that is linked in my sig. You, sir, are giving me far too much credit. But I'm glad you liked it. I'll take a look at your idea. ------------------------------------------ 'Teh Onchinator' - Lords of Andromeda <LRDS> Director & Personal Assistant to MrsPitman
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.11.15 15:35:00 - [97] Low sec just needs to be a lot more profitible than high sec (which it isn't). 0.0 should always be the most profitable for grinding.
Suggy Wubbles	Posted - 2006.11.15 15:38:00 - [98] Originally by: Ficti0n Hehe when i saw that Dark Shikari was making a EvE suggestion post i was quite opimistic, because....well its Dark Shikari! But to be honest I like the move agents to low sec idea, and im a lvl 4 mission runner! ficti0n lvl 4 mission *** b4 moving to 0.0 and becoming ratting *. these r just some of the things i would like to see when moved and to make 0.0 worth the risk 1) move all the lvl 4 agents to 0.0 including player owned outposts 2) the lower the ss of the system should mean the more ore and more rarer types of ore. right now you get the more rarer ore but lose other ores (dumb) 3) increase the bounties on rats in 0.0 4) stop giving crap for BS kills, seriously what the hell are we gonna do with a small armor repair or a med cap injector 5) make lvl 4 missions worth more when moved to 0.0, i went back to do some missions saw the pay and left. 9.89 standing with my agent and they give me crap isk :( 6) release the lvl 5 for the ♥ of anything holy, i see them but can not use them, meanies i can go on and on but these r the most important i think PS give us the use of MWD in deadspace, no matter the reason it is *
Agent Li	Posted - 2006.11.15 15:45:00 - [99] Originally by: Roshan longshot <snippage> Missions where somthing hardly anyone did for along time, so the rewards were great, like the miner II bpo. Then they added the missions, the game became reduntant and boaring, instead of minning, or patroling, people rather go and do a mission. I can make about 200 million in my twenty hours of game time a week, doing level three missions. Or about 150 million ratting in 0.0. Where would you go? Mission hurt this game, sure they brought thousands of people here, but in the long run, they hurt it. Take a look at the map, and your see. Where are the big blobs? Empire space, nice safe and secure. Market if full of loot from these missions, and the only player made items that sell are tech II and ships. So do I have a hardon against missions? Yeah, do I run missions anymore? No. Will I keep posting my dislike for missions? You betcha Hell, I am new, and I stopped doing missions on the second one after the tutorial. Not because of the loot, or isk, but because they are dreadfully boring. "Reward" for me isn't the isk, either. I'm here for the long term, and I hope to get involved in the game politics at some level. If it were all about blasting other ships, and gathering loot, I would log off forever.
Jurskjeld Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2006.11.15 16:05:00 - [100] I agree with Ingols, security loss as of today matters little to anyone who makes a habit out of shagging a few rats over to win up their sec status. PROPOSITION to counter this, not based on personal agenda: No sec status gain in 0.0, and sec status rise which is at its lowest at 0.1, highest at 1.0. --- I tank armour. REAL men tank structure REAL men tank pod! REAL Minmatar tank skin.
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.11.15 16:30:00 - [101] Edited by: Plutoinum on 15/11/2006 16:31:56 Originally by: Uggster There is one idea that has not been tabled..... Leave low-sec as the wasteland it is. It's the badlands of the old Buck Rogers, the Cursed Earth of Judge Dread, the Reaper space of Serenity and even the no-go areas of cities here on earth right now (certain South American cities have gang controled areas for instance and also areas of cities like Bagdad). The only change that really needs to be made is the avalibility of contraband items in low sec. Slaves, Drugs, Guns, Chemical nasties etc should be avalible in certain systems (0.1 or 0.2 pahaps) that are in the middle of low sec areas, this would mean that a trip there could be very profitable IF your willing to take the risk and know what you are doing. It would also add a certain "something" to the area...Seedy space bars where life guns and drugs are all cheap...I think you get the picture. I prefer that definately over making low sec safer. Who needs a safer low sec ? We have high sec for that. Low sec is the place for shady people, criminals and should be the place for high risk high reward activities, but it should never be the place for mindless carebearing. I want to see clever people working together there: Traders, industrials, pirates, mercs, bounty hunters, who really put some effort into it to earn their rewards. So don't make it safer per game mechanics, make it more interesting for players to go there that are interested in interacting with others and playing in a harsher pvp environment, players, who want to build up some social structures/networks there and play intelligent. cdt/con-loss vs. regular log-out. A proposal ...
Myndarlegur	Posted - 2006.11.15 18:21:00 - [102] Originally by: Elve Sorrow No, alliances would just claim low-sec systems instead, and since 95% of EVE's pirates are clueless morons they'd be kicked out in about 2 days. non-fighter < mission runner/npc killer < newbie low-sec pirate (w/ or w/o corp) < newbie 0.0 pirate (w/ or w/o corp) < alliance fighter < regular 0.0 solo pvper = pro alliance fighter < pro alliance/corp fleet leader = pro 0.0 solo pvper < pro 0.0 based small corporation fighter = pro low-sec pirate. This would be the stereotypical player ranking system. Ofcourse there will be a number of people too good for their own place in this ladder but most people would fit in there. Meaning, no buddy, your thoughts on low sec pirates is wrong.
Onchas Erivvia Lords of Andromeda SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.15 19:02:00 - [103] Originally by: Myndarlegur Originally by: Elve Sorrow No, alliances would just claim low-sec systems instead, and since 95% of EVE's pirates are clueless morons they'd be kicked out in about 2 days. non-fighter < mission runner/npc killer < newbie low-sec pirate (w/ or w/o corp) < newbie 0.0 pirate (w/ or w/o corp) < alliance fighter < regular 0.0 solo pvper = pro alliance fighter < pro alliance/corp fleet leader = pro 0.0 solo pvper < pro 0.0 based small corporation fighter = pro low-sec pirate. This would be the stereotypical player ranking system. Ofcourse there will be a number of people too good for their own place in this ladder but most people would fit in there. Meaning, no buddy, your thoughts on low sec pirates is wrong. I don't really agree with either of you. Many (rather than most) pirates are pretty clueless but, let's face it, they don't really have to be much more capable considering the combat capability of the ships/pilots they're usually ganking. I do, however, worry about people who haven't figured-out that Eve isn't really PvP - it's template verses template. It's skill training and equipment set-ups that determine the outcomes of battles, and that's a fact brought into very sharp focus when it's small encounters. This game really doesn't take a whole lot of smarts. Being a low-sec pirate is definitely one of the least complicated aspects of PKing (player killing) in this game. The stuff that actually requires tactics and strategy are the fleet battles. Now, the average quality of the fleet battles are quite low but they're far more capable of being diverse and complicated. They fail to be so because of a lack of sophistication in the playerbase and because that vast majority of the mouth breathers who get wacked hard in fleet battles aren't able to comprehend why it happened. An inability to understand the complexities of fleet battles leads directly to an inability to learn from their deaths in any more than the most trivial of ways. ------------------------------------------ 'Teh Onchinator' - Lords of Andromeda <LRDS> Director & Personal Assistant to MrsPitman
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.16 20:57:00 - [104] To add to some of the posts: My impression (getting it only as the aggressed, not the aggressor) is that pirating in low security (not 0.0) just to easy against catching/defending against pirates. A pirate to do his thing need to be active only a hour every day and gank at a gate or hunt in some system. He can get out empty handed, but the risk to find an active hunting squad is low, and he will disrupt the activity of a good number of non PvP players. For a non pirating group defending against a pirate means using ship set for PvP (so less functional in PvE), have someone constantly on guard against pirates, moving always in group if you have some weak target (industrial, barge, ecc.). Most of you would thing that it is right, but look the number involved: 1 pirate will influence the activity of 10-20 persons. And if they try to strike back he has an easy time disappearing (log off, changing system, ecc.). The problem can be overcome with enough organization, but with the same organization you can set up in 0.0, more profitable and with less problems. So as it was suggested more than once it is needed to make pirate hunting a worthwile profession. Currently the worp peril for low security pirates are other pirates.
Kkobalt Caldari Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.16 21:50:00 - [105] There is already a resource that exist in much greater quantity in low-sec than in 0.0 (and doesn't exist in high-sec). The problem is that resource worth nearly nothing atm, so if you find a way to make it worth something then peoples might find it interesting to go "harvest" it. That resource is the player pirate, tons of them there, it's the main reason why low-sec is more dangerous than 0.0 but it can also become a reason to lure more folks in low-sec. This is my idea: In low-sec only each time you blow up a ship you get a reward (like npc rat) based on the mineral value of the ship you just blowed up. I.E. You blow up a Raven you get 3Mil or so (10% of the plat. insurance cost) Since this bounty would be paid by concord the number should be modified depending on your security rating. If you blow up someone with very bad security rating then you'll get more money since Concord want it more, on the other hand if you blow up someone with a good security rating you get less. The bounty should also be awarded for pod, maybe a % of the clone price. Pirate should make more money than now but there are more risks than before since they will get hunted more. Someone might go quite far to kill a pirate with -10 sec rating since he can worth a lot. That should bring more people in low-sec, probably some very good bounty hunter but also some new folks. That will also add more fun into the game and a very good reason to go pvp in low-sec instead of just ganking/being ganked. If you combine the bounty with the loot you can get you might even make enough money to be able to pvp 100% of the time without having to get isk from somewhere else.

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