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Barrak Wormhole Engineers Greater Realms 110	Posted - 2015.05.21 20:30:58 - [1] - Quote Hey all, Wanted to post here in EvE as the post will cover two topics that I am very interested in learning. Where can I learn to use the API and, for the coders out there, where is a good place to learn coding. I have a passion for computing and always have done and have always regretted not doing much to embrace my passion within my career..... well, I might have the option to do that now. So.... can anyone help me out with some suggestions.... in relation to my questions Regards Barrak
Jarno Midumulf Riders of Sleipnir 1	Posted - 2015.05.22 08:44:53 - [2] - Quote there are a ton off different coding languages out there, so you need to be a bit more specific on what you want to make. for example if you wane make a website you should start learn html, css, javascript and then add php, sql later on the line. but if you want to make a windows program you should start whit c# or java for example. and for a mobile app its a different ballgame.. for the windows phone you should look at c# / xaml and for android you need java and for iphone you gone need to learn xcode (not sure on that one). nad in relation to your questions, learn a programming langues first and then go to work whit the api

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 4035	Posted - 2015.05.22 09:16:51 - [3] - Quote I am of course very biased but I would recommend learning Python. If you do go that route I would also highly recommend the evelink python library for the API: https://github.com/eve-val/evelink @CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Size Matters Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Barrak Wormhole Engineers Greater Realms 112	Posted - 2015.05.22 13:03:27 - [4] - Quote Thanks Guys. I'll take a closer look at those things over the weekend. The main aim at the moment is to couple up two passions.... EvE (or gaming in general) along with coding. I see all those great websites out there that get data from this game and I want to be able to understand it and be able do it myself (lofty ambitions.... at least from where I currently stand ). The aim then would be to just keep growing. I appreciate that this is a very generic question, but once you understand one language do the others follow on easier? Regards Barrak
Max Kolonko WATAHA. Unseen Wolves 519	Posted - 2015.05.22 13:43:27 - [5] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: I am of course very biased but I would recommend learning Python. If you do go that route I would also highly recommend the evelink python library for the API: https://github.com/eve-val/evelink As for learning python: coursera.org have good courses on the subject. Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Pete Butcher KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 292	Posted - 2015.05.22 19:00:21 - [6] - Quote If you want to make multiplatform software with minimum external dependencies and high performance, C++ is the way to go. Although it's very complex, so it might not be the best choice for a beginner. But, when you learn it, you'll be able to make software for pretty much every system out there. Try out Qt some time. http://evernus.com - the ultimate multiplatform EVE trade tool + nullsec Alliance Market tool + Trade Advisor
Amely Miles Exiled Tech Space Monkey Protectorate 49	Posted - 2015.05.23 09:14:54 - [7] - Quote http://www.w3schools.com/ if you need help i myself am not a code monkey but i have alot of them in my alliance who would most likley beable to answer your questions Favorite Quotes: In Space No one flings Poo!! Yes that is a Banana in my Pocket http://spacemp.net
Desmont McCallock 424	Posted - 2015.05.23 14:22:52 - [8] - Quote I would recommend to choose a language that can be used for building desktop and web applications on any OS, although I would put more weight on the web part (as the trend is the 'cloud'). There a lot of those out there but my advise would be to chose that one that can support you also on a career level. I myself now am a prof .NET programmer and I started from scratch by getting involved with EVEMon. Nowadays even .NET/C# is a viable choice as you can now build web apps for any host OS (yes, even MAC and Linux) by targeting the DNX Core 5 framework.
Mr Mac Dark Goliath 55	Posted - 2015.05.24 09:22:32 - [9] - Quote Few months ago I started to play in C#/.NET. I have alot of fun in coding. I really like to work with database using Entity Framework tool. Such powerful tool to work with existing database. I'd recommend learning .NET but it's up to you. I'd advise to learn a programming languages first then work with an API
Barrak Wormhole Engineers Greater Realms 113	Posted - 2015.05.24 13:34:01 - [10] - Quote Hey all, Really appreciate all of the feedback. I can see how much of a journey I have in front of me as I don't understand half of what you're saying and I haven't even started. I really want to benefit from the learning quickly and want to see how I can get it to work with me in this game. If you couple that with all that had been recommended so far, what would the result be? which language? Which one lends itself best to all or as a starter? The more results I can get from it the more motivated I remain..... at this stage I certainly do not plan on starting a new business with these skills and my current trade (Sales and Marketing DIrector in New Homes) doesn't require such skills. Thus it is purely a gaming and passion thing. That said. If I can use it ingame and the push further than who knows what will happen What is very pleasing is that there is a lot of feedback on here and elsewhere where people have managed to learn quickly!! Regards Barrak
Amely Miles Exiled Tech Space Monkey Protectorate 49	Posted - 2015.05.24 13:53:04 - [11] - Quote i understand some what there talking about and i would work on things that teach you how to make websites/databases Favorite Quotes: In Space No one flings Poo!! Yes that is a Banana in my Pocket http://spacemp.net
Pete Butcher KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 292	Posted - 2015.05.24 14:17:12 - [12] - Quote It would be best if you give yourself a specific goal, like making a trading website, or an industry desktop app etc. Then you can start to look around various technologies which you can use, and decide which language to learn. If you want to learn some "generic thing", you most likely will get lost in all the possibilities. http://evernus.com - the ultimate multiplatform EVE trade tool + nullsec Alliance Market tool + Trade Advisor
Barrak Wormhole Engineers Greater Realms 113	Posted - 2015.05.24 14:22:48 - [13] - Quote Pete Butcher wrote: It would be best if you give yourself a specific goal, like making a trading website, or an industry desktop app etc. Then you can start to look around various technologies which you can use, and decide which language to learn. If you want to learn some "generic thing", you most likely will get lost in all the possibilities. Well... that sounds like a good idea. My new venture in this game is trading and then, slowly, into Invention/Tech. Ideally I'd want to design something that allows me to see value of items in multiple places, but to then reduce this down to the highest/lowest 4/5 buys/sells and cross that with volume and historical data. Is there a best path based on that? Barrak
Pete Butcher KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 292	Posted - 2015.05.24 14:49:37 - [14] - Quote Barrak wrote: Pete Butcher wrote: It would be best if you give yourself a specific goal, like making a trading website, or an industry desktop app etc. Then you can start to look around various technologies which you can use, and decide which language to learn. If you want to learn some "generic thing", you most likely will get lost in all the possibilities. Well... that sounds like a good idea. My new venture in this game is trading and then, slowly, into Invention/Tech. Ideally I'd want to design something that allows me to see value of items in multiple places, but to then reduce this down to the highest/lowest 4/5 buys/sells and cross that with volume and historical data. Is there a best path based on that? Barrak The first question is - what kind of application you would like it to be? A website? A desktop app? A mobile app? If not a website (where things are much simpler to learn), you then have to choose your target. What OS? Or maybe multiplatform? And finally then you can start researching technologies and choose the best tool for the job. http://evernus.com - the ultimate multiplatform EVE trade tool + nullsec Alliance Market tool + Trade Advisor
Steve Ronuken Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM 5291	Posted - 2015.05.24 16:04:33 - [15] - Quote if you go down the python route, https://github.com/fuzzysteve/CREST-Market-Downloader may be of interest. Doesn't do all of what you want, but covers the basics of how to interact with crest to download price data. Woo! CSM X! Fuzzwork Enterprises Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Barrak Wormhole Engineers Greater Realms 113	Posted - 2015.05.24 17:08:00 - [16] - Quote THanks again guys. I think its important to start with something fairly easy to get my teeth into. Based on your response Pete, I think the website is probably the best option. I'd like to be able access work whilst away from home. I created an account with Codecadamy and they have two things that reflect the comments in here. Well... they have a ton of things but there is a tutorial on creating a website (which I guess I'll need ) in HTML & CSS (whatever that is - can you tell how pro I am) and there is another on Python Out of curiosity, and not that I'd dare use it ingame of course , which language is best for scripting? So.... run with Codecadamy, learn HTML website first, then into Python maybe? Does that sound feasible? I just scrolled down and they have an entire section on API too..... What do you think? Barrak
Pete Butcher KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 292	Posted - 2015.05.24 17:32:16 - [17] - Quote Depends what "scripting" you have in mind. There's a ton of scripting languages out ther http://evernus.com - the ultimate multiplatform EVE trade tool + nullsec Alliance Market tool + Trade Advisor
Barrak Wormhole Engineers Greater Realms 113	Posted - 2015.05.24 17:43:51 - [18] - Quote Well....to do something from another game for instance. Star Wars: The Old Republic. Set up a script that will, upon the click of a button, carry out various commands around running companion missions (ie a series of clicks on the screen in various places). Or... I play Travian and I could set up a script that, similar to the above, carries out a series of actions which allow me to attack overnight.
Pete Butcher KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 292	Posted - 2015.05.24 17:58:41 - [19] - Quote Barrak wrote: Well....to do something from another game for instance. Star Wars: The Old Republic. Set up a script that will, upon the click of a button, carry out various commands around running companion missions (ie a series of clicks on the screen in various places). Or... I play Travian and I could set up a script that, similar to the above, carries out a series of actions which allow me to attack overnight. Hmm, are you really asking how to make a bot? http://evernus.com - the ultimate multiplatform EVE trade tool + nullsec Alliance Market tool + Trade Advisor
Amely Miles Exiled Tech Space Monkey Protectorate 49	Posted - 2015.05.24 18:03:01 - [20] - Quote Pete Butcher wrote: Barrak wrote: Well....to do something from another game for instance. Star Wars: The Old Republic. Set up a script that will, upon the click of a button, carry out various commands around running companion missions (ie a series of clicks on the screen in various places). Or... I play Travian and I could set up a script that, similar to the above, carries out a series of actions which allow me to attack overnight. Hmm, are you really asking how to make a bot? +1 Favorite Quotes: In Space No one flings Poo!! Yes that is a Banana in my Pocket http://spacemp.net
Barrak Wormhole Engineers Greater Realms 113	Posted - 2015.05.24 18:05:23 - [21] - Quote hmmm I guess it certainly looked that way..........was just curious. Am halfway through the html tutorial now! Seems interesting.... funny, already I can see how some of the more basic websites have focused on content rather than presentation. Just seen your link.... am looking at that too now. Did my learning plan seem feasible? Barrak
Pete Butcher KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 292	Posted - 2015.05.24 18:20:36 - [22] - Quote Barrak wrote: hmmm I guess it certainly looked that way..........was just curious. Am halfway through the html tutorial now! Seems interesting.... funny, already I can see how some of the more basic websites have focused on content rather than presentation. Just seen your link.... am looking at that too now. Did my learning plan seem feasible? Barrak If you want to make websites - sure. Learn HTML, CSS, Javascript and some scripting language, like PHP or Python. http://evernus.com - the ultimate multiplatform EVE trade tool + nullsec Alliance Market tool + Trade Advisor
Barrak Wormhole Engineers Greater Realms 113	Posted - 2015.05.24 18:22:10 - [23] - Quote Pete Butcher wrote: Barrak wrote: hmmm I guess it certainly looked that way..........was just curious. Am halfway through the html tutorial now! Seems interesting.... funny, already I can see how some of the more basic websites have focused on content rather than presentation. Just seen your link.... am looking at that too now. Did my learning plan seem feasible? Barrak If you want to make websites - sure. Learn HTML, CSS, Javascript and some scripting language, like PHP or Python. Thanks. ... and Python will allow good interaction with EvE?
Amely Miles Exiled Tech Space Monkey Protectorate 49	Posted - 2015.05.24 18:35:56 - [24] - Quote definitely sounds like your trying to learn how to bot Eve good luck sir but this is one guy bowing out of the conversation before the "Ban Hammer" comes down Favorite Quotes: In Space No one flings Poo!! Yes that is a Banana in my Pocket http://spacemp.net
Barrak Wormhole Engineers Greater Realms 113	Posted - 2015.05.24 18:40:23 - [25] - Quote Amely Miles wrote: definitely sounds like your trying to learn how to bot Eve good luck sir but this is one guy bowing out of the conversation before the "Ban Hammer" comes down I'm really sorry it appears that way. That is certainly not my intention and can even link my progress with Codecadamy... though, I'm not sure what they will prove. I really appreciate the support so far and I welcome CCP to have a look at my accounts if they wish. I like the game to much to do that. Gutted now as I have ruined what, at least for me, was a great thread that was really helping to learn. My apologies to all. O7 Barrak
Pete Butcher KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 292	Posted - 2015.05.24 18:43:23 - [26] - Quote Barrak wrote: ... and Python will allow good interaction with EvE? It will allow you to get banned pretty fast. http://evernus.com - the ultimate multiplatform EVE trade tool + nullsec Alliance Market tool + Trade Advisor
Barrak Wormhole Engineers Greater Realms 113	Posted - 2015.05.24 19:08:58 - [27] - Quote Pete Butcher wrote: Barrak wrote: ... and Python will allow good interaction with EvE? It will allow you to get banned pretty fast. I can see that I have managed to alienate everyone in this thread. Again, I can only offer my apologies. Thank you for your support so far. Regards Barrak
Nuke Cherenkov Tacere Servitium 0	Posted - 2015.05.26 06:20:56 - [28] - Quote Don't worry about it... Up near the top of the thread is a post by CCP Foxfour, he is the main guy at CCP updating and maintaining both the API and CREST data interfaces. He suggested Python... Shameless plug from me because I really like it too, it just seems to work like you expect it to. There are also libraries that you can import into your app for doing just about anything you can imagine. He pointed you to the main one in Python for working with the Eve API. I will differ with most of the other advice and suggest you start with a desktop app. If you go with a web app you have to add learning all the infrastructure behind web apps, web hosting, deployment, etc. Also HTML, CSS, Javascript most likely. I think a desktop app gets you up and doing something useful with Eve more quickly. Good stuff to learn eventually but you don't need it to be productive with Eve. I focus mainly on trading using a library that makes it easy to use Excel for the user interface and Python for all the code: https://github.com/ericremoreynolds/excelpython/releases This way you can focus on finding the data and manipulating it rather than the presentation. I've found that figuring out the UI can take as long or longer than the core functionality of the app... When I want to add new functionality, like showing all the contracts on my alts, I add a new tab and dump the data there while using Excel to make it look pretty (set calculation to manual though). I am also writing all the code in a modular way, that way when I do go with a desktop app with a UI or a web app, the code can drop in. In fact I've already peeled off part of the spreadsheet into a small standalone app. If you do want to stay with a web app, check out Flask: http://flask.pocoo.org/ http://www.fullstackpython.com/flask.html Programming is not part of my day job, but since starting with Python I've written a bunch of little apps that scratch an itch and have been picked up by a bunch of people at work... Good luck (and don't bot :)
Barrak Wormhole Engineers Greater Realms 117	Posted - 2015.05.26 13:51:58 - [29] - Quote Thanks Nuke!! I can understand why the other guys are thinking like they are. It almost appears as a betrayal of their trust..... if that makes sense. I spoke with my Brother the other night who has (I had completely forgotten) a FC-H Degree in computer science. He recommended the following (in order) Don't bother It's a young mans game (I'm 39 and he is 37 - way to make me feel old!) Java Python Your comments around a desktop app make sense and to be fair.... the likelihood of me playing when not in my study are pretty slim no matter what I thought! Can I ask you to expand on the desktop bit? You make reference to using Excel, so is that what you're referring to as a desktop app or are you 'building' something with windows etc (though that is into Java I believe (or other stuff))? The main aim is to arbitrage between the hubs and to then, possibly, set up a minihub in low/null. At least those are my ambitions.......... I'm out of work at the moment and my wife is keen (which makes sense) to use my time wisely and even she conceded that"...... if it works with a game then great!". Thanks again for supporting. Regards Barrak
Nuke Cherenkov Tacere Servitium 0	Posted - 2015.05.26 18:33:16 - [30] - Quote Hmmn... I was learning Cobol in high school before at least he was born so it certainly isn't a young man's game As a little more context, I am an electrical engineer so while I have had my fingers in programming for a long time it hasn't been a core part of how I spend my days. I looked at Java when I wanted to leave VB6 behind for my itch scratching projects but my god it is verbose; type, type, type... The I found Python and never looked back. In the US, Python is replacing Java as the first language taught in high schools and universities. It is also cross platform, PC, Mac, Linux, Raspberry Pi (Linux), etc., though to be honest you have to be careful which libraries you pick if that is a requirement (probably true for Java too). By desktop app I mean a standalone program that you either invoke from a command line or double click an icon to launch. (BTW I mostly work in Windows) At work I have packaged up some of my utilities into exe files that people use just like any other Windows app. I also create small batch files so I don't have to open a command window and type anything :) Excel kind of counts as a desktop app where each tab generally serves a different function. I'm using Excel almost exclusively as a user interface; I didn't want to spend time coding and tweaking a UI for most things. Basically as I add functionality to the spreadsheets I am figuring out what info I need to put in, how to display the info that I get back from CCP/Eve Central most effectively, etc. Another for instance, I make a list of the BPs I want to manufacture from, how many units to build, etc. When I "run" the code behind that tab of the spreadsheet, it gets the ME for the BP (from CCP), figures out what is needed to build the item (thanks Steve Ronuken), looks up the cost of the components from Jita, Dodi, Amarr and Hek, gets the sell prices at the hubs and shows the amount of profit. I use this to figure out what to build (it also makes an IGB shopping list for the supplies). You can do this (mostly) with Google Docs spreadsheets which is probably more common but with Python and Excel you have total control and the code is reusable. In the aggregate, I can't say that this is "easy" to do but that is true no matter what language you pick. I think my approach pares it down to learning the minimum to get started and then you can add the other stuff (GUI/web/mobile) as you get the basics under control and are seeing useful results. Otherwise it is easy to take too big a bite and totally stall. Of course it has a strong dependency on Excel but a quick search says it is easy to connect Python and Libre Office for instance: https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=71532

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