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Casual highsec solo industry

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AeonOfTime Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate 91	Posted - 2015.05.29 22:16:19 - [1] - Quote Before the industry overhaul my highsec industry alt actually managed to turn a profit (after a long isk sinking career). With a small collection of fully researched blueprints ranging from modules to ships, I was able to go into a small-scale T2 production setup. Margins were not awesome, but enough to keep me interested. After the changes, I eventually gave up entirely - I was not able to match the new selling prices for most of my items. I keeps bugging me though - hence my question: Do you guys n girls think there's still a chance with the current system for a solo highsec industry venture to be worth the effort - and if so, would you care to share a bit on how you manage it?
Paranoid Loyd 5451	Posted - 2015.05.29 23:33:32 - [2] - Quote You can't make a profit because of the stockpiles of things built before the changes, those won't last forever... In the meantime, I have been hauling things to places where people pay stupid markups for them. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
Grime89 Jovetec Industries 0	Posted - 2015.05.30 00:50:37 - [3] - Quote solo industry can be profitable but you have to do your homework and source you materials carefully. Many t2 items will have 25-40% margins depending on how you get materials and where you sell the final product. Keep in mind that margins arent everything and whatever you are making has to have sales volumes to actually see a return in a reasonable amount of time. Also keep in mind if you want to see large amounts of profit you will have to have large amounts of overhead. Currently have to carry about a billion worth of overhead to make 200 million profit per week. Hope this helps,
Kiddoomer ScrewWork Inc. 49	Posted - 2015.05.30 09:46:16 - [4] - Quote I'v been doing solo casual industry for the past months, building T1 cruisers and sometimes T2 cruisers. Until now I was mining every minerals I needed by myself, but I think my mind recently broke with all the pyerite and tritanium needed to build just a dozen of cruisers. So I decided to train for and build a freighter to buy these two minerals and stick to mining everything else. My margins are not huge but I noticed some things like fighters/bombers have a very good margin, don't know why though, maybe the capital building skill needed for that. Another thing if you like T2 building, I buy my moon advanced material in Providence, prices are better than trade hub and because I solo play, a blockade runner is enough to haul safely the stuff back to highsec. A survey scanner tweak and new mining methods: interactive mining
Do Little Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 8	Posted - 2015.05.31 17:17:38 - [5] - Quote I've done very well making T2 modules. Bear in mind that the markets are cyclical. Once the price drops to a certain point, people stop listing new product. The old inventory sells and the the price will snap back - often dramatically. I have a "floor" price below which I will not compete - I simply wait for the market to come to me. Sometimes it takes several weeks - you can get a feel for the range and duration of the cycle for a market and product you are considering by using the price history tab in the market tool.
AeonOfTime Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate 91	Posted - 2015.06.01 07:42:08 - [6] - Quote Thanks for all the insights, folks - much appreciated. I think one of the things I will concentrate on is the supply of raw materials to start with - as Kiddoomer mentioned, fetching them below hub value. That, and learn patience when, as Do Little said, the market prices cycle. I think I'll dust off my industry toolset once more and give it a new spin. Thanks :)
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 982	Posted - 2015.06.01 08:49:23 - [7] - Quote Grime89 wrote: solo industry can be profitable but you have to do your homework and source you materials carefully. Many t2 items will have 25-40% margins depending on how you get materials and where you sell the final product. actually it doesnt matter how you get your materials, you should always do calculation with jita sell prices. Everything else is profit from trading not from industry. You could as well sell raw materials/components for same profit or buy cheap stuff in jita and sell somewhere else with markup.
AeonOfTime Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate 92	Posted - 2015.06.01 10:58:48 - [8] - Quote Robert Caldera wrote: Grime89 wrote: solo industry can be profitable but you have to do your homework and source you materials carefully. Many t2 items will have 25-40% margins depending on how you get materials and where you sell the final product. actually it doesnt matter how you get your materials, you should always do calculation with jita sell prices. Everything else is profit from trading not from industry. You could as well sell raw materials/components for same profit or buy cheap stuff in jita and sell somewhere else with markup. Agreed, it goes into the realm of trading, but it can give me an edge to compete with local prices. Some well organized manufacturing corps with access to a POS (for ex. in lowsec) can build stuff cheaper than I can, so it may be enough to level the playing field if I can get cheaper materials.
Jan Minayin Project Kairos The Bastion 2	Posted - 2015.06.01 11:29:10 - [9] - Quote T2 industry is totally fine. My solo (3 character) hisec industry setup was making a healthy profit from T2 crusiers and modules, even just buying and selling in Jita. As long as you have a wide portfolio and can adapt quickly to market trends, and build in a POS with a half decent system index, you should be able to turn a profit.
AeonOfTime Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate 92	Posted - 2015.06.01 11:59:33 - [10] - Quote Jan Minayin wrote: T2 industry is totally fine. My solo (3 character) hisec industry setup was making a healthy profit from T2 crusiers and modules, even just buying and selling in Jita. As long as you have a wide portfolio and can adapt quickly to market trends, and build in a POS with a half decent system index, you should be able to turn a profit. I had a POS for a while, but my operation is just too small to warrant setting one up. Also, I realized that it stops being casual industry at that point. It would sit there doing nothing for weeks at a time, and that's just sad and unprofitable.

Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs 4939	Posted - 2015.06.02 18:59:58 - [11] - Quote Recently I decided to make something new, so I dropped over 2 billion ISK for a decent trial run. By the time the invention and manufacturing were done, the price had dropped below cost, so I left them on the market, stubbornly refusing to sell below cost. It took several weeks longer than I would have liked, but every item has now sold at my chosen price.
Poxs62 StarTrucks Prometheus Allegiance 2	Posted - 2015.06.02 19:44:12 - [12] - Quote Is this a question about solo industry or solo t2 industry :) Both are slightly different, but, both will make money Simple fact is i make a tidy profit working from my own corporation and just using stations to build/research etc. It wouldn't take a genius to know what i build, and most people will already know if they know me from the haulers channel or the BP trade channel
Mistress Rose Perkone Caldari State 43	Posted - 2015.06.03 03:32:53 - [13] - Quote One word: Shuttles. Always in demand, never enough supply where you need it. /mr
AeonOfTime Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate 92	Posted - 2015.06.05 06:17:21 - [14] - Quote Tau Cabalander wrote: Recently I decided to make something new, so I dropped over 2 billion ISK for a decent trial run. By the time the invention and manufacturing were done, the price had dropped below cost, so I left them on the market, stubbornly refusing to sell below cost. It took several weeks longer than I would have liked, but every item has now sold at my chosen price. My market research was a bit off on turn-around, but a good item remains a good-item despite market flux. I noticed this as well - it ties in with what Do Little mentioned earlier about market cycles. If you wait long enough, prices go back up after a while. If you can afford to be patient that is... Though playing casually you usually can (if you have enough market slots free). Poxs62 wrote: Simple fact is i make a tidy profit working from my own corporation and just using stations to build/research etc. That's reassuring - knowing it can be done I'll have a look at it again. Mistress Rose wrote: One word: Shuttles. Always in demand, never enough supply where you need it. How very true. And often when there is a supply, it's horrendously overpriced. 1 million isk shuttles? Hah. P.S. I usually search for "shuttle" in the market and try each one to find the closest/cheapest one.
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 983	Posted - 2015.06.05 13:20:58 - [15] - Quote AeonOfTime wrote: Agreed, it goes into the realm of trading, but it can give me an edge to compete with local prices. Some well organized manufacturing corps with access to a POS (for ex. in lowsec) can build stuff cheaper than I can, so it may be enough to level the playing field if I can get cheaper materials. no, it gives you no edge at all. Again, the profit from cheap mats doesnt make your manufactoring better or more profitable. Just sell them in jita for profit and save the effort of industry.
Gomex JinBei-19.3 1	Posted - 2015.06.05 19:52:42 - [16] - Quote AeonOfTime wrote: I keeps bugging me though - hence my question: Do you guys n girls think there's still a chance with the current system for a solo highsec industry venture to be worth the effort - and if so, would you care to share a bit on how you manage it? Definitely ! I got my billion just by buying component in Jita, producing T2 items and then selling the items in places where i get a benefit. I managed it by creating my own tool wich i recently made public. The aim of the tool is to give you places/items where you get the best margin (costs are always based on Jita average). You can filter profits in order to take only those who give you a 50% margin or more (or less). You can try it at http://evebs.net or https://evebs.net Or have a look on screenshots : http://evebs.net/sessions/screenshots, or help : http://evebs.net/user/help Hope it will help you in your future business :)
Estephania Independent Political Analysts 3	Posted - 2015.06.05 22:59:36 - [17] - Quote I have found that many items are sold below or at the price of their manufacturing cost. Which means many industrialists are virtually working for free, or selling at loss. I doubt you can make any profit with small scale industrial operation, maybe on select items after spending hours researching the market. But then you can hardly call it casual.
Haatakan Reppola Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 26	Posted - 2015.06.06 01:29:09 - [18] - Quote Depends what you call casual, making a 30day production job its pretty casual and can make money (need constant high demand for item)
Do Little Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 9	Posted - 2015.06.06 08:09:05 - [19] - Quote Casual means different things to different people. I spend about an hour a day adjusting prices, submitting jobs and hauling stuff to market. Since I only make modules I can haul in a Blockade Runner which speeds things up a lot. I enjoy the gameplay - some people prefer to do other things. You can set your price mid-cycle and forget about it - stuff will eventually sell. You can buy all your inputs in Jita and have Red Frog deliver them - but will take a margin hit. The important part is to enjoy the time you spend playing the game.
z'kroh Caldari Fire Demons The Southern Syndicate 2	Posted - 2015.06.06 12:04:12 - [20] - Quote Sure you can, but why alone? This game is pure agony for solo gaming. Seriously. Very, very seriously.

AeonOfTime Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate 93	Posted - 2015.06.06 18:07:06 - [21] - Quote z'kroh wrote: Sure you can, but why alone? This game is pure agony for solo gaming. Seriously. Very, very seriously. Aye, I have heard the "Dude, you're playing solo in a multiplayer game??" time and again. Very seriously, I knew what I was getting into before I even launched the game for the first time in 2006. I spent about a week reading up on the game before deciding to try it out. I think it is a testament to EVE's versatility that I have been successfully playing the game solo for 9 years so far. Then again, I had a lot of fun playing with others over the years as well - it is just not my main playstyle. And to come back on topic: Do Little wrote: Casual means different things to different people. I spend about an hour a day adjusting prices, submitting jobs and hauling stuff to market. Since I only make modules I can haul in a Blockade Runner which speeds things up a lot. I enjoy the gameplay - some people prefer to do other things. Casual for me is not having to spend hours researching every detail. That's why I have developed a small custom-made industry tool that knows all my blueprints, and that I can use to give me a list of required materials and costs for a batch of different items - with or without invention. Then I just thave to buy all I need (agreed, blockade runners ftw), and start the jobs. The problem lately was merely that the market prices were lower than I could build my items. That is why I wanted to know if it is still possible to compete at all - now that I do, I realize I will have to do a little research to find other items to build that are profitable. The upside is that I will have to add new items to my blueprints collection, and thus become more flexible. Estephania wrote: I have found that many items are sold below or at the price of their manufacturing cost. Which means many industrialists are virtually working for free, or selling at loss. I doubt you can make any profit with small scale industrial operation, maybe on select items after spending hours researching the market. But then you can hardly call it casual. I'm not so sure they are all working for free - if you have the infrastructure to build either in lowsec at a POS or in null and bring your items to market, you have quite an advantage. Granted, on smaller items like modules the difference should not be that substantial, but at the margins for most T2 items it can play a role. Then again, it is quite possible many industrialists out there just do not take all costs into account. If you do not have to buy all materials you tend to forget they come with a cost nontheless. Lone wolf and nomad extraordinaire. eve.aeonoftime.com
Haatakan Reppola Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 28	Posted - 2015.06.06 18:47:42 - [22] - Quote For T1 items MANY think that the minerals they mine are free, so any isk they get from selling the finished product is manufacture profit. Then you also have people that mine/buy minerals far away from any tradehub and forget that they dont have to kmanufacture before bringing it to a tradehub and sell for a nice profit. Some items that use alot of minerals may also be easier to build in a remote mining system, import the minerals you cant get localy and haul the finished product. PLaying 0.01 isk game in a tradehub to sell ore/mineral vs selling finished product for same mineral price
Gilbaron Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda 1790	Posted - 2015.06.07 02:42:05 - [23] - Quote z'kroh wrote: Sure you can, but why alone? This game is pure agony for solo gaming. Seriously. Very, very seriously. you are not playing solo if you are buying from and selling to other players. about the whole trading vs industry thing: it doesn't matter where your profit actually comes from, as long as you KNOW where it comes from. it's not exactly hard to find people willing to sell ore and other ressources at 10-20% below jita. but that's usually at the arse of the universe. jita ressources to jita end product should be your benchmark. that's actual industry profit. everything else (cheaper ressources, markup on end product) is a trading and/or hauling profit. if a major part of your profit comes from things that are not industry, you should seriously consider switching over to that activity.
AeonOfTime Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate 93	Posted - 2015.06.07 10:24:47 - [24] - Quote Gilbaron wrote: z'kroh wrote: Sure you can, but why alone? This game is pure agony for solo gaming. Seriously. Very, very seriously. you are not playing solo if you are buying from and selling to other players. Hah, I had not thought about it that way. Even talking about "Market PvP" tends to lose its meaning as there is no direct communication, but it's true regardless. Gilbaron wrote: about the whole trading vs industry thing: it doesn't matter where your profit actually comes from, as long as you KNOW where it comes from. Continuing this line of thought, why should we even distinguish between industry and trading profits? Unless you control the whole material chain, there will always be some part of trading involved in industry when you buy materials. Getting materials cheaper than the reference market hub price is a trading profit, but as you said, it does not matter where it comes from if you know from where. The only reason I would see is to ensure that you do not lose profits by transforming your materials in industry. Lone wolf and nomad extraordinaire. eve.aeonoftime.com
Do Little Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 11	Posted - 2015.06.07 13:57:17 - [25] - Quote When I started in industry, I wanted to be vertically integrated - involved in every aspect of the production process. It worked for a while but the time investment required to harvest my own materials grew at the same rate as my business - it wasn't sustainable. I am still self sufficient for P2 and make my advanced components but the other stuff is purchased. I use the in game industry tool to check profitability. My costs are below "average" so I'll be paying a bit less than the cost shown by the tool and I use the selling price it provides as my floor price. Other than that, I don't pay much attention to the numbers - I'm playing a game, not running a business. At the end of the month, I usually have enough surplus cash to PLEX multiple character training for a couple of accounts and that tells me I'm doing something right! My industrial operation is concentrated in my own 1 player corporation but my main is in a different player corp and I have a couple of characters in NPC corps so I can continue operations uninterrupted during a war. Solo and social are not mutually exclusive.
AeonOfTime Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate 93	Posted - 2015.06.07 17:22:02 - [26] - Quote Do Little wrote: When I started in industry, I wanted to be vertically integrated - involved in every aspect of the production process. It worked for a while but the time investment required to harvest my own materials grew at the same rate as my business - it wasn't sustainable. I am still self sufficient for P2 and make my advanced components but the other stuff is purchased. I use the in game industry tool to check profitability. My costs are below "average" so I'll be paying a bit less than the cost shown by the tool and I use the selling price it provides as my floor price. Other than that, I don't pay much attention to the numbers - I'm playing a game, not running a business. At the end of the month, I usually have enough surplus cash to PLEX multiple character training for a couple of accounts and that tells me I'm doing something right! My industrial operation is concentrated in my own 1 player corporation but my main is in a different player corp and I have a couple of characters in NPC corps so I can continue operations uninterrupted during a war. Solo and social are not mutually exclusive. Sounds like you are way ahead of me then. I built a tool to keep track of everything because otherwise I forget what I did :) I like the idea of just using the ingame tool though, as an experiment I will try to do the same. Might I ask if you sell your stuff close to a hub, or out of the beaten paths? Lone wolf and nomad extraordinaire. eve.aeonoftime.com
Haatakan Reppola Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 31	Posted - 2015.06.07 21:34:39 - [27] - Quote AeonOfTime wrote: Gilbaron wrote: about the whole trading vs industry thing: it doesn't matter where your profit actually comes from, as long as you KNOW where it comes from. Continuing this line of thought, why should we even distinguish between industry and trading profits? Unless you control the whole material chain, there will always be some part of trading involved in industry when you buy materials. Getting materials cheaper than the reference market hub price is a trading profit, but as you said, it does not matter where it comes from if you know from where. The only reason I would see is to ensure that you do not lose profits by transforming your materials in industry. You need to distinguish between market and industry profit to make sure the industry part is earning isk instead of loosing part of the trading profit. This is the number 1 reason many items are sold at lower prices than you can make it. Instead of earning 2b/month from trading you "earn" 1b from manufacturing and at the same time screw others trying to get into manufacturing
Gilbaron Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda 1791	Posted - 2015.06.08 12:38:32 - [28] - Quote AeonOfTime wrote: Gilbaron wrote: z'kroh wrote: Sure you can, but why alone? This game is pure agony for solo gaming. Seriously. Very, very seriously. you are not playing solo if you are buying from and selling to other players. Hah, I had not thought about it that way. Even talking about "Market PvP" tends to lose its meaning as there is no direct communication, but it's true regardless. Gilbaron wrote: about the whole trading vs industry thing: it doesn't matter where your profit actually comes from, as long as you KNOW where it comes from. Continuing this line of thought, why should we even distinguish between industry and trading profits? Unless you control the whole material chain, there will always be some part of trading involved in industry when you buy materials. Getting materials cheaper than the reference market hub price is a trading profit, but as you said, it does not matter where it comes from if you know from where. The only reason I would see is to ensure that you do not lose profits by transforming your materials in industry. why waste time on industry if it's not making you any money ? there are very few edge cases, where industry is buying you time instead of money, but that's different. an example would be someone buying minerals in some remote highsec area that is only building freighters. whenever a freighter is ready, the hull is filled with excess stuff and autopiloted to jita. the return trip is made in a shuttle. simply making freighters is not exactly a brilliant idea. but using the hulls to save time can be a good idea. transporting the minerals to jita might take several roundtrips, doing the returntrip in a shuttle can provide more time for the cool things in eve.
Do Little Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 12	Posted - 2015.06.08 16:02:10 - [29] - Quote I've tried selling in Amarr, Dodixie and Hek. I buy stuff in Jita but you can usually get better margins in any of the other regional hubs. I also learned the hard way that a cloaked Blockade Runner can be blown up approaching the Jita dock - the smaller hubs seem to be a lot safer! I dropped Amarr some time ago because it was farthest from my base and I didn't want to invest the time and effort to manage 3 markets. Right now Hek is my best market but that too is cyclical - if you asked me a few months ago I would have said Dodixie. I'm still on the steep edge of the learning curve and realize that "location" is one of the few ways a merchant can add value in a pure commodity market like Eve. Right now I have several projects on the go to diversify my gameplay but that is definitely something I am interested in investigating once I have some time.
Zappity Stay Frosty. A Band Apart. 2166	Posted - 2015.06.08 19:50:18 - [30] - Quote Create an insta-dock bookmark well within the docking ring. While in warp, set destination to the station and enable autopilot. You will dock instantly. You will want insta-undock bms too. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.



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