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SDF1	Posted - 2006.11.29 04:31:00 - [91] You may not post in this forum without showing your corporation/alliance identifiers, as detailed in the rules - Serathu ([email protected])
Adame Matriana Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.11.29 05:41:00 - [92] Originally by: Senlathial Originally by: Adame Matriana I do know, that I was in system that day (about 3-4 hours prior) that it was found to be missing, Calc was not on, and someone was moving a Cap ship. I could not tell by the convo in local whether it was in or out, nor did I show info on the involved parties or all parties in local to see who they were as I generally don't pay attention to cap ship movements in low sec local, cause there's lots of cyno's going up all the time. It's true, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. If you read that, as it was meant to be read, provided you have more than a 3rd grade reading level. You will know that that entire comment is me saying I am bipartisan to the whole situation. I don't know, and personally short of trade logs, escrow logs, and screenshots of things that are just not possible to get from someone who doesn't want to give them up willingly. You should also note that the leading the horse to water comment was based on the other information not just the info I posted in that thread. Also, you should note that you are correct, you picked out 2 valid points. But it doesn't mean he couldn't have traded the dread immediately to an alt and escrowed to another individual, or just traded it to an alt and flown it out that day. On the other hand he could have not taken it and it could have been someone else moving it out. Hell it could have been a completely different cap ship, and it could have been jumping in and not out. Calc knows this info, I even told the rest of the commanders this info. However it's not the only intel that we have. Maybe you should go read this entire thread again so you can understand better... I dunno.
Adame Matriana Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.11.29 05:51:00 - [93] Originally by: Thor Xian I just don't like to blacklist people without a good reason to. It's not likely he will ever want to join any corp I run...but being blacklisted is a bit more involved than that. Aye, understood. I personally wouldn't ask you to blacklist him. I personally don't have enough info to condemn the guy. I think there's alot of evidence that points in his direction, but I can't be 100% sure he did it, therefore I would never ask for a blacklist. I might make a proceed with caution warning, just based on the evidence here and my personal interactions and knowledge of the way he has worked within TSA. But I can't discredit the guy on a few character flaws. All I can do is sit back and hope that the theif was him so something severe like this doesn't happen again. I have no problems with Calc on any sort of personal level, and I don't believe he has any problems with me on a personal level. We've talked a few times since his departure of TSA and has not ever come across in a wicked way and I did not come accross in any similar manner. I think we both look at this as a war and nothing more, no personal grudges, we just get to shoot at eachother. I don't think I would let him into an officer position in my corporation until we found out the truth. But that's only smart, and I am sure calc would agree on that.
Fornacis Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.11.29 14:51:00 - [94] I have known Calculon in Eve since he left FE, and have fought along side him several times in Geminate, and talked to him for countless hours. I would trust him with anything that I had in game. He's an excellent Fleet Commander, CEO, and all around genuine pilot. The thought of Calc being a thief, or anyone trying to ruin his name is total rubbish, and pretty pathetic. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Adame Matriana Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.11.29 17:04:00 - [95] Originally by: Fornacis I have known Calculon in Eve since he left FE, and have fought along side him several times in Geminate, and talked to him for countless hours. I would trust him with anything that I had in game. He's an excellent Fleet Commander, CEO, and all around genuine pilot. The thought of Calc being a thief, or anyone trying to ruin his name is total rubbish, and pretty pathetic. Great, good for you, glad you are friends with him and can trust him. Though, people change, and it could be that Calc was hired to do such a thing to TSA. It could also be that he's completely innocent. All I can say is this, there have been no corp thefts since he's left. Whether he took the dread, or placed it in the wrong hangar where it was taken by someone else still leaves him responsible for it. If I take your car out, park it in a garage where the keys are accessible by more people than you, the owner, would like, and it's taken from there, I would be held responsible and you'd be **ed. (in a world with no theft insurance) As an offer of good faith if something like that happened, I'd try and work a payment deal with you, or compensate you in some way. That was not done. Instead he just left, mind you, I can understand the reasoning behind it, he was being called a theif and a liar, but I personally would have paid back every penny. It's obvious he had the funds to do so, he created an Alliance immediately and then wardec'd us. So why couldn't he have just sucked it up, said you know guys, I didn't take it, but because it was my responsibility, here's some money, I can pay you guys back such and such amount every month till it's paid off. It would have proven that his character is not a theif or a liar, and he was willing to take responsibilty for his carelessness, and the Theif/Liar scenerio would have ended. Make no mistake about it Fornacis, the facts of the dread are as follows, He asked someone specifically to get it out of the Directors Hangar so he could fly it around. He flew it, did the op as planned, and either by error or by planned events placed it into the officers** hangar. He knew where it was supposed to be placed back, and it was his responsibility to place it in the correct location. Basically it was his responsibility to see it safely into the hands of a director. Whether he took it or not, he owes TSOR some form of compensation. The sheer lack of wanting to comply with either returning the dread, or attempting to compensate the corporation is what got him persecuted.
Fornacis Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.11.29 18:41:00 - [96] Edited by: Fornacis on 29/11/2006 18:43:00 IMO the bottom line is this. The first thread of this accusation was posted a few weeks back and from what I remember was "Calculon is a filthy thief!! Mammas lock up your wine and daughters!!!" etc. He shouldn't have been publicly accused without solid evidence. Even if this was case of irresponsiblity (it happens I've been gaming for hours upon hours straight and have made mistakes myself)this should have been handled and sorted behind closed doors, and if your first words were "Thief!! where's the ship" then I might can see why he has hard feelings about the whole scenario. Because I know the work he puts into a corp with the energy, and dedication that he brings to the table. I really hope this does get sorted, because I don't like seeing Calculon's name in this sort of dim light. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Iconoclast Xaan	Posted - 2006.11.30 00:23:00 - [97] Edited by: Iconoclast Xaan on 30/11/2006 00:24:26 Originally by: Fornacis I really hope this does get sorted, because I don't like seeing Calculon's name in this sort of dim light. I had figured most fair minded people had looked at this post as a warning and come up with a pretty solid conclusion. For the few remaining rabid defenders I doubt it will help but here are some of Calculons own words of his past exploits http://www.shadowpool.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=209294&st=20 "So far plan is working perfectly. Let's run down what I've accomplished: 1) Received full access to the corp hanger. 2) Received 1 million isk. 3) Received a Badger Mk1 AND a Mk2. 4) Gone on two full mining runs with the Mk1 (Mk2 still waiting on training). Money pending the corp buying the materials. I'm waiting on the Mk2 skills to finish training. At that point I'm going to package up that Mk1, receive my funds (should be 5 million isk) from my mineral sales, and clean out the Corporate Hanger. Man...the life of a thief is exciting. :)" and some more....... "I've killed more than one corp this way. I'm a xxxx xxxxx in real life, and thus would never do such a thing...but it's fun to let go of some of your inhibitions when playing games. Last I counted, I took down 4 corps before I quit playing, " and here......... Oih...the Corp I am in is full of Brits. We're going on a raid deep into "enemy" territory, and so they invited me to their TS server...I can barely understand any of them. Oh, and I managed to wrangle a Kestrel out of them as well. A hauler wouldn't make the raid, and I told them I'd just have to catch the next raid...they promply gave me a Kestrel outfitted with 3 launchers, and missiles to boot. Now that I know they are Brits, I feel even less remorse. ;) (Kidding of course)" And some more....... "The Corp I infiltrated went on a raid today, the one I asked to tag along for in the frigate. I basically got assigned "loot pickup" duty: I had to fly around, fill my hold with cargo, and bring it to the big transport vessel...unload, and repeat. Sounds easy, huh? I was busy plotting my next move the entire time, and actually had to leave early because of a bug." One more..... "My timetable is this: I've got another 1 day, 14 hours until Industrial III is finished training. That's when I can load up in my Badger Mk2 and get the hell out of dodge, carrying everything I can with me. Tomorrow they have another mineral run, this time for the entire corp. That 5 mil I earned was 1 person mining...I'm thinking the payday could be 10 or more this time around. So I'm going to stick it out for the mining run...and then leave once I can get in my Mk2. All in all, I should leave with 25 million in cash, and another 10 million in sellable commodities. 35 million for two days of work isn't that bad. ;)" Yes, we must be crazy for leaping at a conclusion that Calculon stole the Dread What exactly is this "solid evidence" I keep seeing demanded?
Impee The Shadow Order The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.11.30 03:50:00 - [98] Apparently videotape and a signed confession. I think his reputation was already quite tarnished before this thread showed up. If people have bothered to read the numerous posts regarding his behavior and exploits in other corps and at different times that would be pretty clear. It is called a track record. We were likely guilty of not checking out that track record, however, we know now, and if we can prevent another corp/allaince from making that same mistake, so be it. Like I said before, in 3 - 6 months when his new targ....err corp experiences the same thing, I will have a hearty chuckle.
Kraknall Minmatar Eve's Brothers of Destiny The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.11.30 15:01:00 - [99] Edited by: Kraknall on 30/11/2006 15:06:12 ..and so the war died out with a whimper. All those incredible "terms" spelled out in BSUN's missive to Adame? POOF! We're paying them squat...and far as I know, Otosela is still very much dominated by TSA. I guess maybe they weren't quite so determined to defend Calc after all. (...or, like us, they just got bored of a pretty pointless and uneventful war). Oh well.
Herculite Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.30 15:29:00 - [100] Interesting how people keep saying hes a nice guy who just plays a thief/jerk in game. While I've done 'bad' things in game. Namely blowing up helpless people and then blowing up their pod for no reason other than the desire to blow up their pod, this is a straight up sort of thing. It is a gaming thing and I'd expect the same done to me when I'm the one caught at a disadvantage. It takes a different kind of jerk to get on TS with people, befriend them, and then stab them in the back. I don't buy the 'nice guy gaming' thing I think that goes more to 'not a nice guy in rl but afraid of getting caught so would never try it' type of thing.
Jahnweh Black Sun Consortium	Posted - 2006.11.30 17:21:00 - [101] Kraknall, I hate to disappoint you, but the war was only temporarily suspended due to a glitch in the patch which caused our alliance to spontaneously disband (taking the war with it.) I assure you that once this issue is resolved we will continue the conflict, and posting about it here will not make it stop any sooner nor win you any points with the Eve community whose validation you so clearly crave. Apologies to everyone else for this episode of 'Days of Our Lives.' Jahnweh Director of Diplomacy The Black Sun Consortium
Kraknall Minmatar Eve's Brothers of Destiny The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.11.30 19:08:00 - [102] Awww, Jahnweh...I'm not really craving anyone's respect or validation here. Seriously, I'm a pretty leavel-headed person. I've been playing EVE for a total of 8 weeks now, give or take. I don't have the character skills or the ISK to be any kind of significant participant in this war right now, and anyone who knows anything about EVE knows it. I do know however that the facts remain; the war, such as it were, is dull and uneventful. If it continues at its current pace, I think many of the folks in TSA will probably be retiring from their real-life professions long before they move out of Otosela...or pay you "squatter's rights". Oh, and a small point of interest; cloaking has been nerfed. More importantly, Warp Core Stabilizers have been nerfed. When you engage TSA now, you'd best win your fights...because endless running away will, unlike previously fought battles, no longer be an option. Happy trails.
Senlathial Black Sun Consortium	Posted - 2006.11.30 23:43:00 - [103] Edited by: Senlathial on 30/11/2006 23:46:18 A translation of the recent changes that affect wars in empire, from a different perspective: A reduction of available strategies that can be brought to bear against a foe of superior numbers. IE, if you can blob, you will win. We will try to adapt, of course; I hope you will wait Krak, as there is a learning curve with this one. edit to add: empire war changes in Revelations, and the bug with the update that removed our alliance, has been very frustrating.
Bearclaww Black Sun Consortium	Posted - 2006.12.01 00:21:00 - [104] Scan probing also easier so finding your mission runners will be loads easier than sitting at a staion or outside one.
mazzilliu Caldari Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.12.01 04:17:00 - [105] omg its boliknar hi \o/ hope you get your corp theif guy sorted out. 1000% awesome guide to logging out
Effective Overseer Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.12.01 06:03:00 - [106] Lock this thing already. :p
Kraknall Minmatar Eve's Brothers of Destiny The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.12.01 14:43:00 - [107] Quote: Bearclaww wrote: "Scan probing also easier so finding your mission runners will be loads easier than sitting at a staion or outside one." It's all tit-for-tat Bear; finding you when you run to your safe spots will also be easier. I'm hyped, personally. Despite a pile of inexperience and very poor combat skills, I have enjoyed the few fights I have been in.
Ranged Airman Black Sun Consortium	Posted - 2006.12.01 15:49:00 - [108] Kraknall, you've probably gained more experience than most of your alliance mates...
Kraknall Minmatar Eve's Brothers of Destiny The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:02:00 - [109] ..and been unceremoniously blown to bits more often too LOL!!!
Michael Holliday The Shadow Order The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.12.01 17:34:00 - [110] There have been very different claims from both sides about the impact of the war. Let's do some math: According to the BSUN killboards, which I believe shows mainly kills from this war (there may be one or two inaccuracies) BSUN has: destroyed for an estimate of 2,088,265,320 ISK lost about 313,716,739 ISK. This is a pretty good ratio, 6 to one. However, when you consider the numbers what this means is that: TSA (569 members) has lost about 3.7 mill per member BSUN (16 members) has lost about 19.6 mill per member So, the numbers show that this war is having a greater negative effect on the average BSUN member than it is on the average TSA member. Obviously, some members have been much more affected than others - my apologies, I don't mean to be insensitive to those who have suffered major losses. In any case, 3.7 mill means that the war has cost the average TSA'er an hour of mining. BSUN is going to have to do better than that to be able to "state terms" and all that nonsense. I'd like to be a small corp fighting a big alliance - must be fun to have so many targets when you're stabbed out. When you're the big alliance however, it costs more ISK to chase 4 war targets (who don't want to fight) than it does to ignore them and carry on our usual business. PVP is fun though, and with the stabs nerfed, I'm willing to go look for a fight.
Herculite Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.01 20:47:00 - [111] "In any case, 3.7 mill means that the war has cost the average TSA'er an hour of mining. " Are you mining Veldspar?
Brax Norlyssa	Posted - 2006.12.01 20:52:00 - [112] Originally by: Michael Holliday According to the BSUN killboards, which I believe shows mainly kills from this war (there may be one or two inaccuracies) BSUN has: destroyed for an estimate of 2,088,265,320 ISK lost about 313,716,739 ISK. Let's not forget there are monetary losses that go beyond the loss of a ship and gear, pod and implants. There is the cost of the war dec along with the fee now needed to recreate an alliance that was disbanded.
Ranged Airman Black Sun Consortium	Posted - 2006.12.01 21:08:00 - [113] Edited by: Ranged Airman on 01/12/2006 21:17:57 Michael, I applaud your use of statistics to make yourself feel better about the war. However you're missing a key point, not all 546 members have been involved in the war. It's closer to 45 members. This brings the loss per member to approximately 45M, not 3.9M. 45members against our 16 is what, a 3-1 ratio? Yet we still have the 6-1 ratio in ISK and an 8-1 ratio in kills. See? you can use statistics to prove anything and I just proved you guys are still losing. Lets just worry about who kills who more. Of course there is a counter-argument that TSA has used: "Well we have more members and in such we should lose more pilots because we are inexperienced and lack the SPs." This is also an incorrect assumption. The losing of so many pilots is due to a lack of leadership within TSA, not a lack of SkillPoints. I was in a 60man corporation (SHLT) and we were war-dec'd by several talented pvp corporations such as BM-C and Burn Eden. In those wars we did not lose such an obscene amount of pilots, in fact we came out on top. Why is that? Leadership. The leadership is something you guys have lacked from the start and it will ultimately be your undoing. Yes, there are pods/implants that are unaccounted for. Unfortunately for TSA, most of the podding has been on their end. And when you typically pod an empire who flies with all T2 mods, you end up popping a lot of nice implants. The Alliance Recreation you're talking about is also a mute point. If the current petition doesn't go through, oh well. We don't need an alliance to war-dec. :) Edit in: Yes, I did use a stab on my T1 fitted stabber. I was using hit and run tactics against your blob. I also recall your own members using them, on battleships. There were atleast 3 battleships that lucked out by having stabs on against us.
Zade Trebblehorn Black Lance Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.01 23:48:00 - [114] Come on Ranged, you know better. We had SLIGHTLY better numbers than BM-C and Burn Eden because we had about 30 ACTIVE members in SHLT. Not to mention that we would sit in the station or run to the station anytime they came into the system. The only time we every fought them, is if we massively outnumbered them, or if we got lucky and they lost connection when goofing around and pulling the dock/undock routine. Infact, SHLT basically fought that way the entire time I was in it, mostly under the "leadership" of Calculon. Outside of a few skirmishes with Beyond Divinity and Forsaken Empire (the alliance), we never had the balls to engage in an even fight. With Calculon leading you in BSUN, I don't imagine it's any different. Oh, and everyone knows that a small force fighting a large force will always have a better k/d ratio. Trying to play it off like you're some awesome pvp corp is pretty rediculous. Ganking missions runners and noobs is not pvp, it's piracy. I personally dont have a problem with piracy, but call it what it is.
lobevaser	Posted - 2006.12.11 22:29:00 - [115] PLEASE LOCK THIS THREAD I think enought flames have been tossed around
Ranged Airman Black Sun Consortium	Posted - 2006.12.12 04:21:00 - [116] It hadn't been touched for 10 days and you respond with such fury to lock it!!
Graalum Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.12.12 04:26:00 - [117] Originally by: Ranged Airman It hadn't been touched for 10 days and you respond with such fury to lock it!! lol
Crax McGee Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.12 16:14:00 - [118] YOU CORP STEALING B*STARD!
John Blackthorn Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.12.12 16:19:00 - [119] Good Grief.... Will this thread ever die? Most of us know Calculon is an evil person who is a manupultive corp theif... Those that defend him just havn't been "stung" yet.. I dobut they will be stung because Calulon needs people to defend him every so many months as he moves to the next corp/alliance. -John

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