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Gak Halfront
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Posted - 2006.11.17 06:38:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Gak Halfront on 17/11/2006 06:40:11
Grabbed this off from MMORPG.COM page EVE Online Fanfest 2006 - Part Two: Aatars, Linux and Announcements.
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EVE Everywhere
If you thought CCP was busy with all these announcements, CCP Games Chief Technical Officer Halldor Fannar took to the stage to truly show how busy a company can be.
At E3, the company had showed off a prototype version of an EVE Mobile service. This client for Windows Mobile compliant mobile devices would allow players to set skill training, do EVE email, trade with other players, etc. Essentially, it encompasses everything but the 3D client itself. The reaction was good, according to Fannar, but at the moment they've put the idea on hold while they try and plug all the security holes such a program could create.
Fannar also revealed that the company is actively developing Linux support for EVE Online. He also strongly hinted - to the point where he basically confirmed - that an Apple client was also in the works.
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Oh yeah, whonder if beta testers are needed? One happy volunteer here... :)
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Sevarus James
Minmatar
Meridian Dynamics
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.11.17 07:16:00 -
[2]
After watching Transgaming and CCP's relationship the last several months, and seeing the Dragon branch code dropped to Transgaming to get cedega up to speed, I'd say that it won't be a native client for either...rather good "support" for the "emulators".
1. Cedega for linux. Getting the code updates fast from CCP, they have been able to get the client running and fairly bug free.
2. Transgaming recently announced the "CIDER" wrapper for pc game developers, which will allow the game to be "encapsulated" and run semi-natively on the MAC platform with little or no actual coding changes from the native DX(x) version.
I'd love to see a native port with OGL 2.0. I just don't see the tea leaves or the devs indicating this specifically, therefore I think that the DEV was referring to this relationship to get the game in other platform users' hands.
If the cider wrapper works as advertised, CCP can slap a "mac ready" logo on the website and be done with it. As the cider technology is based on the cedega application and the testing is done with it as well, then the linux community would also have very little problem running the game.
Also with the recent strides of crossover office (parents o' the wine project) in getting EVE running on the crossover MAC version, there will be multiple ways to run EVE without ever seeing a Bill Gates product touching the computer.
-BIG PROPS here to Elfiger for his persistence and sweat working on the hacks to get EVE running. Crossover's developers have mentioned him specifically in regards to their work in getting EVE running via the commercial version of wine.
If any of the devs are reading this stuff, shoot him an email! He deserves a little recognition imho! :)
Updated Linux Desktop+EVE+EVE-TV |
Unmediated Heroism
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Posted - 2006.11.17 07:40:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Unmediated Heroism on 17/11/2006 07:44:57
This has been discussed extensively on these forums. Though I wasn't at the event, these little tidbits of information have been circulating and inflating for a long time.
The fact is, you can already play Eve on both Linux (for a long time now) and Mac OS X (as of yesterday) via WINE. I'm not convinced that "Linux support" and "an Apple client" means anything other than CCP putting its stamp of approval on these things that already exist.
A dev blog a while back said that CCP is in talks with Transgaming, the maker of Cedega (a proprietary fork of WINE for Linux) and Cider (basically a Cedega-like wrapper put around Windows native code for Macs). It seems likely that this deal with Transgaming is what the MMORPG.com folks are on about. It is an open question as to what kind of performance Transgaming will get with CCP's support. It's a promising lead.
The point here, though, is that these hints do not mean that CCP is going to be writing a client for Linux or Mac. It is very, very unlikely that a native Linux or Mac client will appear anytime in the near future. The work involved would be ridiculous, and CCP has too much invested in Microsoft technologies to completely turn away from them for something like OpenGL.
Sorry to be a killjoy here, but this news is less exciting than it initially appears, because:
1) EVE already works on Linux and Mac OS X.
2) The Transgaming support will use similar technology to what is already being used for this, and thus will likely hit similar performance limitations (though, with access to CCP's source code, one can hope that compatibility issues will be less of a problem).
*edit* Looks like Sevarus beat me to the punch. And, indeed, props of the maddest kind to El***er for all of his work on making this possible.
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Gak Halfront
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Posted - 2006.11.17 08:37:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Gak Halfront on 17/11/2006 08:37:58
Great, well, at least they'll be supporting the use of Cedega and not working against it. :)
Though I'd like to see a native one still. Having played Quake4 on Linux native and a couple of others, I'd say there's nothing preventing making a native one except the missing guy to kick the fellows to do it.
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Unmediated Heroism
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Posted - 2006.11.17 09:16:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Gak Halfront
I'd say there's nothing preventing making a native one except the missing guy to kick the fellows to do it.
What's preventing CCP from making a native client is the fact that they'd basically have to start from scratch. Quake 4 was written in OpenGL, which has native libraries on just about every major platform. Porting it, therefore, is relatively straightforward. Eve is written in DirectX, which has native libraries only on Windows. There's no way to port the Eve client without converting everything that relies on DirectX (i.e., just about all of it) into something else. It would be a _massive_ undertaking.
So...yeah. What you say is true enough, but no more true than saying that there's nothing preventing CCP from terraforming mars except the missing guy to kick the fellows to do it.
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Ll Aniami
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Posted - 2006.11.19 20:38:00 -
[6]
Duh... That "start from scratch" talkings here is somewhat unfair. Then i look into EVEs dir, i see there a lots of Python code, wich is very portable. Catching some python exceptions from wine(x)'s output (and overall slowness of emulation) shows that there are lots of game insides written of already-portable Python. So task is only to make at least minimal playable engine on OGL (read: SDL) for EVE to become THE Linux MMORPG. |
Ruato
Gallente
Gurgleblaster Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.19 21:54:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Ruato on 19/11/2006 21:54:10
I dont like them supporting cedega too much (because those basically ripped wine code and try to cash in with other peoples work).
Wikipedia has more
But i guess atleast some support to linux and mac community is better than nothing...
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Get rid of those *bleep*ing secure containers. *bleep*! |
Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.11.19 23:12:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ruato
I dont like them supporting cedega too much (because those basically ripped wine code and try to cash in with other peoples work).
Cedega is open source. Thus, they by definition did not "rip off" anything.
The premium you pay to Cedega is for their proprietary UI and Windows Installer support.
-[23] Member-
Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON! |
ElfeGER
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.20 23:08:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Ruato
I dont like them supporting cedega too much (because those basically ripped wine code and try to cash in with other peoples work).
Cedega is open source. Thus, they by definition did not "rip off" anything.
The premium you pay to Cedega is for their proprietary UI and Windows Installer support.
that's not correct
winex/cedega was branched from wine a long time ago
they added dx code, support for copy protection and other things
the main goal is it to get games running
the current cvs export from cedega basicly has dx code that is 2+ year old (no updates to that since then)
The updates you see in there are things that get added by the different people and code they take over from wine (license allows that)
basicly doing an own port is stupid for most existing games as it takes to much time and money (just think about the coding time, meetings, changed workflows, support, testing and so on)
so you end up with lots of money spent for a little gain
on the other hand you could take a very small amount of that money and support opensource with that (via codeweavers)
On the other hand I can see that CCP is trying to fix some things.
For example the folder/cache generation was bugged a long time ago, then CCP implemented a change so that the basic folders get created but the machonet cache which is created after login was missing. Now in the Revelations client this is fixed as well.
Hmmm also when ccp compiles a native client for linux/macos (cedega/cider/winelib) then I'm a dev as well  yarrr
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keiichi chan
Caldari
BORG Kollektiv
BORG Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.04 13:32:00 -
[10]
Did you already read this?
Basicly i think we will see a Nativ Client.
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hade wade dude da~
If you have something against, my English Skills, then Slap my Teacher! |
Neve K
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Posted - 2006.12.04 13:56:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Neve K on 04/12/2006 13:57:08
What else do you think people here are talking about?
Not sure about calling it a native client, though.
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VCBee 118
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Posted - 2006.12.06 02:40:00 -
[12]
Originally by: El***ER
basicly doing an own port is stupid for most existing games as it takes to much time and money (just think about the coding time, meetings, changed workflows, support, testing and so on)
so you end up with lots of money spent for a little gain
on the other hand you could take a very small amount of that money and support opensource with that (via codeweavers)
The biggest argument against compatibility layers 'back in the day' was that they would encourage vendors to avoid native ports and take the easy way out leaving customers with buggy and slow programs.
At the time I was of the opinion that compatibility layers would be a good thing as they would bridge the gap enough that people would start to move over that native ports would be viable. That part has come into effect for the most part though now we are at the stage where vendors really need to start switching to cross platform development. ID and the like already have and others have tested the waters so I'm hoping that in the future CCP joins these ranks.
Don't get me wrong; I know Linux users are only a small player base but it is one that is getting bigger and if they want to try wrapping EVE first and then look at a native client in the future I think that is a fine situation. Though it must be noted all of the applications TG has released in the past that were wrapped had the poor support given to them then and now.
Also if they bring out a native client that works on Linux and Mac (inc PPC) I'll be getting another account to play while at Uni on my Mac. :D So...$15 incentive a month!
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SpaceDrake Taleweaver
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Posted - 2006.12.07 18:47:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Ll Aniami
Duh... That "start from scratch" talkings here is somewhat unfair. Then i look into EVEs dir, i see there a lots of Python code, wich is very portable. Catching some python exceptions from wine(x)'s output (and overall slowness of emulation) shows that there are lots of game insides written of already-portable Python. So task is only to make at least minimal playable engine on OGL (read: SDL) for EVE to become THE Linux MMORPG.
The graphics engine is written in C++ with DirectX 8.1 in mind. It currently features no OGL support.
They only use Python for UI scripting and some other stuff, IIRC.
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What good are actions if there's no one to tell the tale afterward?...
Former player of Andre Ricard (sold). Currently plays a Sekrit CharacterÖ. |
Onar Maldarian
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Posted - 2006.12.08 20:12:00 -
[14]
Would be nice if a DEV says something in this thread.
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Mortimus
Gallente
Ordos Humanitas
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Posted - 2006.12.09 09:14:00 -
[15]
There is a dev blog with TomB wearing a shirt with "Tux Sux" on it and holding a bat.
Nuff Said? :)
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Sevarus James
Minmatar
Meridian Dynamics
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.12.09 11:30:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Mortimus
There is a dev blog with TomB wearing a shirt with "Tux Sux" on it and holding a bat.
Nuff Said? :)
He actually caught hell for that, and clarified that it was referring to tuxford (another dev), and not linux.
Updated Linux Desktop+EVE+EVE-TV |
ElfeGER
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.09 11:50:00 -
[17]
Edited by: El***ER on 09/12/2006 11:58:00
Originally by: Mortimus
There is a dev blog with TomB wearing a shirt with "Tux Sux" on it and holding a bat.
Nuff Said? :)
isn't there a dev called Tuxford?
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Mortimus
Gallente
Ordos Humanitas
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Posted - 2006.12.10 06:32:00 -
[18]
Maybe... I dug up said blog and it was on TomB's blog, but it wasn't a picture OF TomB (i think? i hope i'm not confusing the devs) but of Tuxford himself (at least it looks like the same tuxford from the EveTV vids :) )
http://staff.ccpgames.com/tuxford/Myndir/tuxsux.jpg
And seeing as how there's a penguin there..
Maybe tuxford is just annoyed that there's another tux out there :)
Looked at that screeny of you watching eveTV and playing eve - i will have to try that on my new desktop when I get it :)
As for Eve on Linux/MacOSX - Eve is the last app that's keeping me on windows...
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Sevarus James
Minmatar
Meridian Dynamics
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.12.10 10:03:00 -
[19]
yeah I like that shot. was going to do a new one for this tourney, but there is so little difference, I figured meh. Cedega at that time was about the only way to get EVE rolling effectively. Now, wine+elfiger's diff patch are getting mucho closer to playability levels that cedega formerly 'owned'.
More choice= good stuff in my book.
Oh and I ditched windows completely back in march when cedega finally released the version that brought EVE into the fold. The only copy of windows left in my house is a dual boot laptop...that is never booted on the windows side...just haven't had time to get rid of it (xp) yet.
Updated Linux Desktop+EVE+EVE-TV |
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