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Oriodus
HEFNER
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Posted - 2006.11.17 09:36:00 -
[1]
I'm a bit behind on the talk about Nosferatus...to be honest i have no problem with the module being used against me - as i use it against others. I do however realise that 'sometimes' a frigate or cruiser going up against a battleship with heavy nos can be struck down just to capacitor shortage.
Thinking about it - maybe a its a stupid idea (but an idea none-the-less)...
How about a high slot mod (or rig slot) with a name such as 'Emergency Capacitor Storage' which acts as a separate capacitor from the main, which is untouched by nos or neuts.
This mod would take a small amount of capacitor power from the main capacitor, say: 50 (small), 70 (medium) and 120 (heavy) or alternatively for rigs a percentage. This should only be enough for 'emergency' use - as the title suggests. So enough power to run a shield/armour rep at minimal effectiveness or run the hardeners etc before it is depleted.
The Emergency Capacitor Storage device could have a recharge rate but a very slow one at that, therefore reducing its effectiveness for anything other than its intended purpose...it would be a case of deciding what mod would need to use this power and working out survivability.
I know there was an idea of having a proportion of a capacitor that would not be effected by a nos/neut but i dont think that this is fair...if you're being nossed, so be it - combat is just plain 'tough luck' in some cases. But i do however think there should be a mod to partially resist its effects if it means you lose one slot to do...hence my idea.
...its just an idea - or more so a starting block to another 'lame thread'.
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James Duar
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.11.17 09:55:00 -
[2]
I can't help but think that the nos argument ignores the fact that there's rather a lot of modules in EVE that do a lot of things. If you want to avoid being nossed by a battleship then sensor dampen the hell out of it or jam it or similar.
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Imechal Ravpeim
Amarr
International Multi-Player Consortium
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.17 14:49:00 -
[3]
I kinda like where that's going... Maybe a module that takes away a set amount and puts half or 1/4 or however much to stop it from being too powerful into a backup cap that can only be drained by active modules or warping.
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Mandrake Knight
Euphoria Released
Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.11.17 14:54:00 -
[4]
Nice idea, I for one welcome it since I seem to get nossed on every other tackle :D
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Oriodus
HEFNER
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Posted - 2006.11.17 14:59:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Oriodus on 17/11/2006 15:00:27
...i admit i haven't explained it too well or thought about it down to a working example of a the module but i think the idea is basic enough to grasp.
I know there are cap boosters etc that can be used but on a ceptor or frigate for example you sometimes dont have the luxury of using them, so this module would assist you in the role without being drained in mid tackle by a single heavy nos.
...and being a high slot too, sometimes there is a difficult decision in selecting that last empty slot - i think this could be it?!?
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Jurai Ginaz
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Posted - 2006.11.17 19:43:00 -
[6]
I think the real problem is that a bigger ship can.. with just ONE module, completely screw a smaller ship.
And does that with just training box 1 of the required skill to use the NOS.
Case in point:
40 million skillpoint player in a 70+ mill isk interceptor goes against a 3 month player in a tier 1 battleship that has a heavy energy neutralizer or 2 heavy NOS.
interceptor goes in to tackle... battleship gets lock on the interceptor.. 23km and SLAM! interceptor loses all of its capacitor and is completely taken out of the action. it can only hope it can use its remaining speed to get out of range of the energy neutralizing weapons.
Same thing with cruisers or battlecruisers vs heavier ships. 2 modules assure victory over them.. not the player's skills, not their ship equipment.. no nothing. there is NO counter to the NOS/NEUT except to get out of range or jam the other guy (too late by then as your cap is practically gone in the first shot).
The same issue happens with WEBBERS.
The solution is simple:
Make the NOS/NEUT have the same tracking guidelines as their weapon counterparts. Heavy nos=large guns, medium nos=medium guns, small nos=small guns. That way a cruiser or frigate should be very hard to 'grab' with a heavy NOS/NEUT
Webbers: frigate using a webber to reduce a freighter's speed by 90%. Thats retarded. The amount of power needed for a 10 ton little ship to screw the engines of a multi-thousand ton ship should be outside the scope of the 10 ton ship to do.
Introduce a small/medium/large webbers to the game (with the tracking based on their weapon counterparts as the neut/nos proposal above)
Webbers need to reduce speed of target as they do now BUT the target's mass counters the % of speed reduced. So the frigate webbing a freighter will barely reduce its speed by 5% for example.
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Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.17 20:11:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 17/11/2006 20:12:30
The amount of storage mentioned is not sufficient for any sort of tanking or MWD usage, and would be a worthless one-shot: basically, with the capaictor recharge curve even a single heaby nos can quickly cripple most frigates speed and what tanking ability they have.
Jurai Ginaz, you're assuming that webbers match engine power vs engine power. That's npt an assumption supported either by the prime fiction, or by the reality that having to use 10 webbies before you see a BS slow down would be boring and make them comparatively worthless (opportunity cost).
//Maya |
Reggie Stoneloader
eXceed Inc.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.18 02:28:00 -
[8]
It's true, a tiny hardened subset of the cap would be a joke in most cases. MWD, afterburner, shield booster and lasers are still going to be inoperable. All it'll do is let you run your tackling gear.
That said, just being able to run tackling gear would be enough, in the case of the Stiletto or other light tacklers.
But I still don't like it. It's too gimmicky.
If your objective is a defense against nos and neuts, introduce a medium-slot "Capacitor Stabilizer" which renders you immune to the effect of energy emission systems, harmful or beneficial. You can't be nossed, but neither can you nos. You can use neutralizers and cap transfer arrays, but they can't be used upon you.
Tack on a penalty to capacitor capacity and/or capacitor recharge rate, and it'll be a tactical option, but not a guaranteed win or loss in combat.
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Civis Ascendant Sum |
Wat0721
GalacTECH Unlimited
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Posted - 2006.11.18 02:46:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: Reggie Stoneloader
It's true, a tiny hardened subset of the cap would be a joke in most cases. MWD, afterburner, shield booster and lasers are still going to be inoperable. All it'll do is let you run your tackling gear.
That said, just being able to run tackling gear would be enough, in the case of the Stiletto or other light tacklers.
But I still don't like it. It's too gimmicky.
If your objective is a defense against nos and neuts, introduce a medium-slot "Capacitor Stabilizer" which renders you immune to the effect of energy emission systems, harmful or beneficial. You can't be nossed, but neither can you nos. You can use neutralizers and cap transfer arrays, but they can't be used upon you.
Tack on a penalty to capacitor capacity and/or capacitor recharge rate, and it'll be a tactical option, but not a guaranteed win or loss in combat.
Or we could even lower the fitting requirements of cap batteries and make all of the cap added by the battery un-NOSable.
/emote is still waiting on that idea to get some mention.
---
ECM Fix <--still stands, post-nerf. |
Commander Din
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.11.22 05:00:00 -
[10]
Your thinking of capacitor batteries?
They already have lots of differnt capacitor stuff. Just cap batteries take up alot of cargo space.
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Earthan
Gallente
The Amazing Fire Eaters
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Posted - 2006.11.22 06:27:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Oriodus
I'm a bit behind on the talk about Nosferatus...to be honest i have no problem with the module being used against me - as i use it against others. I do however realise that 'sometimes' a frigate or cruiser going up against a battleship with heavy nos can be struck down just to capacitor shortage.
Thinking about it - maybe a its a stupid idea (but an idea none-the-less)...
How about a high slot mod (or rig slot) with a name such as 'Emergency Capacitor Storage' which acts as a separate capacitor from the main, which is untouched by nos or neuts.
This mod would take a small amount of capacitor power from the main capacitor, say: 50 (small), 70 (medium) and 120 (heavy) or alternatively for rigs a percentage. This should only be enough for 'emergency' use - as the title suggests. So enough power to run a shield/armour rep at minimal effectiveness or run the hardeners etc before it is depleted.
The Emergency Capacitor Storage device could have a recharge rate but a very slow one at that, therefore reducing its effectiveness for anything other than its intended purpose...it would be a case of deciding what mod would need to use this power and working out survivability.
I know there was an idea of having a proportion of a capacitor that would not be effected by a nos/neut but i dont think that this is fair...if you're being nossed, so be it - combat is just plain 'tough luck' in some cases. But i do however think there should be a mod to partially resist its effects if it means you lose one slot to do...hence my idea.
...its just an idea - or more so a starting block to another 'lame thread'.
Not a bad idea imho would need to be tested.Certianly we dont want Kali to be the world where guns dont matter aymore only nosfs.
-
A knight in space,war veteran.
The Amazing Fire Eaters webpage |
phoenix fighter
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Posted - 2006.11.22 08:51:00 -
[12]
my way of dealing with nos is that mostly its gallente that use it and amarr, so i mainly equip a gallente ecm on my interceptor or if i got 2 slots in mid i will do gallente and amarr, works fine for me, dont have to worry at all about nos because there the 2 main races that use it of course it dont work all the time but it cuts it down by a large amount, especially the gallente one because alot of gallente ships have nos on them so it helps :)
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Slevin Kalebra
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Posted - 2006.11.22 13:47:00 -
[13]
I don't think we need a 'new' module for this - I just think cap batteries should be changed so that the percentage of your total capacitor gained from them should be 'undrainable' - at least it makes them a semi-useful combat mod compared to cap boosters.
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