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Survey
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Posted - 2006.11.20 12:53:00 -
[1]
I have a question concerning combining EULA policies. I have some characters which I would like to convert into cold hard cash. Would the following procedure be acceptable by EULA.
As I understand these policies are in effect:
1. Character transfer for ISK is allowed
2. Gametime card transfers for ISK is allowed
3. Gametime cards can be re-sold with real currency.
Would this policy allow me to:
1. Sell my characters for ISK
2. Buy GTC's with the ISK made from these character sales
3. Re-sell those GTCs for real life cash
Should any of my reasoning of these policies be faulty, please enlighten me on the topic.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.11.20 13:15:00 -
[2]
3) is problematic, because there is no way of verifying a gametime code other than using it. Therefore, CCP does not protect GTC reselling because it is far harder to track GTC scams.
Its allowed, but odds are you'll get a lot of dissatisfied buyers who got fake codes.
-[23] Member-
Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON! |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.20 16:21:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Dark Shikari
3) is problematic, because there is no way of verifying a gametime code other than using it. Therefore, CCP does not protect GTC reselling because it is far harder to track GTC scams.
Its allowed, but odds are you'll get a lot of dissatisfied buyers who got fake codes.
There are regular sellers who are well trusted with over a hundred sales each, so that's not a problem.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
robacz
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.20 16:24:00 -
[4]
Edited by: robacz on 20/11/2006 16:24:23
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Dark Shikari
3) is problematic, because there is no way of verifying a gametime code other than using it. Therefore, CCP does not protect GTC reselling because it is far harder to track GTC scams.
Its allowed, but odds are you'll get a lot of dissatisfied buyers who got fake codes.
There are regular sellers who are well trusted with over a hundred sales each, so that's not a problem.
So you get 10 GTCs from trusted seller and ebay them. Buyer pays and then claim that codes doesnt work. Payment get reversed becouse you have no proof that you really purchased the codes. Buyer walks away with 10 free codes and you pay eBay fees.  Happy reselling!
___________
Buying/Selling: Implants & Hardwirings
Producing/BPCs: Mining Barges, BCs, Cruisers |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.11.20 16:37:00 -
[5]
Originally by: robacz
So you get 10 GTCs from trusted seller and ebay them. Buyer pays and then claim that codes doesnt work. Payment get reversed becouse you have no proof that you really purchased the codes. Buyer walks away with 10 free codes and you pay eBay fees. Happy reselling!
Or you work with one of the trusted time code sellers, who will have invoices from the company they bought the code from to prove they work.
Ebay don't just reverse payments for no good reason, they do at least some investigation.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
robacz
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.20 16:44:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Nyphur
Or you work with one of the trusted time code sellers, who will have invoices from the company they bought the code from to prove they work.
Ebay don't just reverse payments for no good reason, they do at least some investigation.
Invoice doesnt prove anything though. Only that someone (not you) bought some codes. You still can't prove that codes sent to buyer were ok. Only way to do it, is to ask CCP about these codes. And since CCP doesnt care / dont want to support ISK->GTC->$$$ chains, you will get no answer = no proof for PayPal investigation.
___________
Buying/Selling: Implants & Hardwirings
Producing/BPCs: Mining Barges, BCs, Cruisers |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.20 16:53:00 -
[7]
Originally by: robacz
Invoice doesnt prove anything though. Only that someone (not you) bought some codes.
The code is most likely on the invoice. All you would need to do is forward the mail your friend got from the company with the code in it. If they claim it's invalid, you can just supply ebay with a copy of that mail and they can check it with the company that sold the codes, CCP doesn't need to get involved anywhere along the line.
By your argument, I could scam official game time code sellers by buying hundreds of codes from them via paypal, then telling paypal (a subsidiary of ebay now) that they didn't give me any codes or the codes didn't work.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
goatslapper
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Posted - 2006.11.20 17:24:00 -
[8]
great question, wrong place.
this is just making a horrible situation more public
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robacz
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.20 17:58:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Nyphur
By your argument, I could scam official game time code sellers by buying hundreds of codes from them via paypal, then telling paypal (a subsidiary of ebay now) that they didn't give me any codes or the codes didn't work.
Official seller get support from CCP and all details about codes. ISK reseller does not. 3rd party invoice is no proof that delivered code was ok.
Anyway, I think this doesnt belong here. I was just trying to point out that business as described by OP is very risky, becouse you get no support from CCP in case someone want to scam you.
___________
Buying/Selling: Implants & Hardwirings
Producing/BPCs: Mining Barges, BCs, Cruisers |
Disposeble Alt
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.20 22:25:00 -
[10]
The only way I see that has any chance of success following your reasoning would be if the original GTC seller would be intrested in buying back for rl money the timecodes he sold you for isk.....
But it is all so very very close to the edge where ccp may take offence, edit/delete posts, lock treads and ban users
Posts by alts hide political affiliation and history.
No political statement by any alt should be taken seriously. |
Lord Sid
Minmatar
Lordless
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Posted - 2006.11.21 12:42:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Survey
I have a question concerning combining EULA policies. I have some characters which I would like to convert into cold hard cash. Would the following procedure be acceptable by EULA.
As I understand these policies are in effect:
1. Character transfer for ISK is allowed
2. Gametime card transfers for ISK is allowed
3. Gametime cards can be re-sold with real currency.
Would this policy allow me to:
1. Sell my characters for ISK
2. Buy GTC's with the ISK made from these character sales
3. Re-sell those GTCs for real life cash
Should any of my reasoning of these policies be faulty, please enlighten me on the topic.
You didn't want to ask GM this question else you would have petitioned it. Instead you decided to post it on a public forum where any one can respond. So say what you mean.
-=Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds=- |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.11.21 21:27:00 -
[12]
Originally by: robacz
Official seller get support from CCP and all details about codes. ISK reseller does not. 3rd party invoice is no proof that delivered code was ok.
That's doesn't make any sense at all.
If I buy a GTC from an official seller, I get a mail with the code. If I use the code and claim it doesn't work, paypal will ask the people that sold me it and they'll say "We sent him code x, here's the invoice". If that is not proof enough that the code is valid, they can ask CCP to verify it was used.
If I buy the code from an official reseller, sell it on ebay and the person then claims that the code didn't work, paypal will ask me and I'll say "The code is x, I bought it off company y, here's the invoice". Then they'll go to the official seller company y and they'll ask the same as before.
There is absolutely no difference in the risk between being an official seller and being an unofficial reseller who gets his codes from an official seller. All it means is that paypal will have one more step in their investigation. Putting aside for a moment the grim reality that paypal's investigation team are substandard and they make mistakes every day, there's the same risk in official selling as unofficial reselling. You may not get support from CCP but paypal and the company that sold the code sure will.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
D'onryu Shoqui
Vengeance of the Fallen
Imperium Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.22 05:13:00 -
[13]
paypal investigation team are substandard, they were on a uk TV program called "watchdog" because paypal sucks at dealing with disputes
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I am a nobody of IMP my views are my own. |
caver
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.22 17:37:00 -
[14]
I see one way to do this without scam.
2 and 3 the same person :)
Agent offers database: http://caver.org/eve/ |
Anssett
Minmatar
Society for the Advancement of Repatriated Slaves
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Posted - 2006.11.22 18:16:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: robacz
Invoice doesnt prove anything though. Only that someone (not you) bought some codes.
The code is most likely on the invoice. All you would need to do is forward the mail your friend got from the company with the code in it. If they claim it's invalid, you can just supply ebay with a copy of that mail and they can check it with the company that sold the codes, CCP doesn't need to get involved anywhere along the line.
By your argument, I could scam official game time code sellers by buying hundreds of codes from them via paypal, then telling paypal (a subsidiary of ebay now) that they didn't give me any codes or the codes didn't work.
Not sure about "proper" resellers but from Eve Store - "Game Time Cards are prepaid scratch cards that can be used to create EVE Online accounts and pay for EVE Online subscription."
There is not much point having access to the code except by scratching as that could be abused so there could be some other way of identifying the cards.
The reselling of "opened" cards is very risky whatever way the security goes as CCP would not be interested in assiting if things went bad. The only alternative is to find a GTC reseller who would post you the GTC cards "unopened" once you have supplied isk.
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Jordon Spikes
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Posted - 2006.11.24 22:23:00 -
[16]
1. Sell my characters for ISK
2. Buy GTC's with the ISK made from these character sales
3. Re-sell those GTCs for real life cash
you could always resell those gtc's back to the guy you bought them from for rl cash.
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AirWalker
Amarr
Galactic Response Team
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Posted - 2006.11.26 18:44:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Jordon Spikes
1. Sell my characters for ISK
2. Buy GTC's with the ISK made from these character sales
3. Re-sell those GTCs for real life cash
you could always resell those gtc's back to the guy you bought them from for rl cash.
at a reduced price of course
what IF......CCP bought the GTC's for RL cash but for like half what they sell them out for...they can varify if its legit and they just resell them
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