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Ortilus Orsides
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2015.06.17 14:05:20 -
[31] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Traejun DiSanctis wrote:Battleships have their place and are good at those things. No, solo PvP is not one of them. Being fast is similarly not one of them.
Keep in mind that CCP hasn't "revamped" the Battleships yet. I'm sure they will get to them soonish. So lets hold off on making comparisons. In what eve universe do you play? The geddon used to be magnificent laserboat of sentry doom. Now it's some crappy oversized curse. If that wasn't some form of 'cide' I don't know what is.
LOL
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Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
322
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Posted - 2015.06.17 14:40:45 -
[32] - Quote
Ortilus Orsides wrote:BSs are isk makers, mostly use for PVE, rattling, and anomalies. If you use them for anything else you're just asking for a blobbing.
To the risk adverse maybe. I like fighting blobs (depending on the situation of course) as they are generally overconfident and make lots of mistakes (approach! Hug that BS with your huginn). I roam with BS fairly often and have about the same to better success rate as roamin with other ships. The nice thing is it opens my options on who i can fight. Until i get hot dropped (lol). **** happens though, i still killed triple what my BS is worth in most cases. I fly real solo, no links, no alts, no scouts. I just know my roaming areas well and have safes everywhere.
Plus for t1 BS, insurance pretty much covers the cost of the ship. You just pay for the fittings. Pretty sure my phoon only costs me about 50-70m in total.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role
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Tusker Crazinski
Delta vane Corp.
Mordus Angels
80
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Posted - 2015.06.17 15:15:12 -
[33] - Quote
its just some of the battleships, namely the gun boats.
2 of the long range turrets are virtually un-fittable, a lot of their bonuses are bad or make no sense. I'm looking at you Hype, Pest, and Mael
the dominix is probably the best ship in the game, mostly because of how stupidly OP drones are right now
the phoon and raven are fine, missiles need not track.
and the geddon is a nuet sniper, possibly one of the most overall useful battleships in the game.
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Ortilus Orsides
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2015.06.19 02:07:01 -
[34] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:Ortilus Orsides wrote:BSs are isk makers, mostly use for PVE, rattling, and anomalies. If you use them for anything else you're just asking for a blobbing. To the risk adverse maybe. I like fighting blobs (depending on the situation of course) as they are generally overconfident and make lots of mistakes (approach! Hug that BS with your huginn). I roam with BS fairly often and have about the same to better success rate as roamin with other ships. The nice thing is it opens my options on who i can fight. Until i get hot dropped (lol). **** happens though, i still killed triple what my BS is worth in most cases. I fly real solo, no links, no alts, no scouts. I just know my roaming areas well and have safes everywhere. Plus for t1 BS, insurance pretty much covers the cost of the ship. You just pay for the fittings. Pretty sure my phoon only costs me about 50-70m in total.
Ahh yes, forgot about the Phoon. With RHML and a utility high for a heavy neut, I'd say the Phoon is the best solo PVP T1 BS in the game right now. The Geddon and Bhaalgorn are more dangerous, but are mostly used in as gang supporters instead of solo.
I didn't realize the insurance payout for T1 BSs was that good. I retract my statement, I now see no reason NOT to use them for pvp when the risk to lose them is this low, especially if the pilot knows what he's doing.
Heh, Mr. Kaneland you're the exact opposite of that whimpy Arch Troller who posted that "Do not train to fly Battleships" thread. Maybe you should loan him some of your expertise on the subject. |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
1074
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Posted - 2015.06.19 02:24:49 -
[35] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:
The geddon used to be magnificent laserboat of sentry doom. Now it's some crappy oversized curse. If that wasn't some form of 'cide' I don't know what is.
I just wanted to repost this and give you a +1 for the reminder.
I haven't undocked a T1 Geddon since the change.
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Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
1249
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Posted - 2015.06.19 04:01:24 -
[36] - Quote
Your dialect is amazing.
Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities.-á
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Traejun DiSanctis
Astro Technologies
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
150
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Posted - 2015.06.19 05:36:28 -
[37] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Traejun DiSanctis wrote:Battleships have their place and are good at those things. No, solo PvP is not one of them. Being fast is similarly not one of them.
Keep in mind that CCP hasn't "revamped" the Battleships yet. I'm sure they will get to them soonish. So lets hold off on making comparisons. In what eve universe do you play? The geddon used to be magnificent laserboat of sentry doom. Now it's some crappy oversized curse. If that wasn't some form of 'cide' I don't know what is.
Wait, wait... let me get this straight... your OP 'geddon of death isn't as faceroll as it used to be and you're now here crying about all Battleships sucking? K... thought so.
Go write about it in your diary, cupcake. I'll be busy using my battleship to do stuff. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1108
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Posted - 2015.06.22 13:40:33 -
[38] - Quote
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:Traejun DiSanctis wrote:Battleships have their place and are good at those things. No, solo PvP is not one of them. Being fast is similarly not one of them.
Keep in mind that CCP hasn't "revamped" the Battleships yet. I'm sure they will get to them soonish. So lets hold off on making comparisons. In what eve universe do you play? The geddon used to be magnificent laserboat of sentry doom. Now it's some crappy oversized curse. If that wasn't some form of 'cide' I don't know what is. Wait, wait... let me get this straight... your OP 'geddon of death isn't as faceroll as it used to be and you're now here crying about all Battleships sucking? K... thought so. Go write about it in your diary, cupcake. I'll be busy using my battleship to do stuff.
Just to be clear I love BS and I think their fine as is (though I personally thought what they did to the geddon was stupid).
Speaking of stupid... you either own it or embody it. I can't tell which. There are many of us who loved the classic geddon before it got turned into a neutmobile. It's kind of like when they took the waterbed / shag carpet laden custom vans of the 60s and 70s and turned them into the baby toting mini vans of today. Guys who are about down and dirty miss the custom vans and metrosexuals think the mini van is the cats meow. Neither of us are wrong. We just don't agree.
TL/DR lighten the fook up francis
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Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1123
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Posted - 2015.06.22 14:24:41 -
[39] - Quote
RavenPaine wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:
The geddon used to be magnificent laserboat of sentry doom. Now it's some crappy oversized curse. If that wasn't some form of 'cide' I don't know what is.
I just wanted to repost this and give you a +1 for the reminder. I haven't undocked a T1 Geddon since the change.
Geddon is a beast, in about any configuration. Dominix only beats it for pve and assist-blobfests. (And as a moonwalk domi since it has more drone range and more stabs than a Nexor) |
Valkin Mordirc
1140
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Posted - 2015.06.22 14:27:10 -
[40] - Quote
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:Traejun DiSanctis wrote:Battleships have their place and are good at those things. No, solo PvP is not one of them. Being fast is similarly not one of them.
Keep in mind that CCP hasn't "revamped" the Battleships yet. I'm sure they will get to them soonish. So lets hold off on making comparisons. In what eve universe do you play? The geddon used to be magnificent laserboat of sentry doom. Now it's some crappy oversized curse. If that wasn't some form of 'cide' I don't know what is. Wait, wait... let me get this straight... your OP 'geddon of death isn't as faceroll as it used to be and you're now here crying about all Battleships sucking? K... thought so. Go write about it in your diary, cupcake. I'll be busy using my battleship to do stuff.
Geddons weren't OP. They were good but not OP. The Sentry nerf lowered them a notch.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1121
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Posted - 2015.06.22 16:11:16 -
[41] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:Traejun DiSanctis wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:Traejun DiSanctis wrote:Battleships have their place and are good at those things. No, solo PvP is not one of them. Being fast is similarly not one of them.
Keep in mind that CCP hasn't "revamped" the Battleships yet. I'm sure they will get to them soonish. So lets hold off on making comparisons. In what eve universe do you play? The geddon used to be magnificent laserboat of sentry doom. Now it's some crappy oversized curse. If that wasn't some form of 'cide' I don't know what is. Wait, wait... let me get this straight... your OP 'geddon of death isn't as faceroll as it used to be and you're now here crying about all Battleships sucking? K... thought so. Go write about it in your diary, cupcake. I'll be busy using my battleship to do stuff. Geddons weren't OP. They were good but not OP. The Sentry nerf lowered them a notch.
Before this spins any further out of control - I miss the OLD GEDDON. The one with laser bonus and as a side dish it had 125mbits of unbonused drone fury.
It's ultimate role was the HS afkposbashermobile. Make it cap stable, launch sentries, shoot tower, and go mow the lawn. I don't miss bashing HS pos, but I do miss the feel of landing on grid with a giant penis shaped monster of laser death doom and despair. It just felt so..... manly. |
Kamahl Daikun
Back To Basics.
65
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Posted - 2015.06.25 17:38:51 -
[42] - Quote
Celthric Kanerian wrote:You're of course right, cause 1150 dps at 53 km optimal with Conflag in my Paladin is of course not good enough...
So, when that Frigate gets under your guns and starts slowly melting you... |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
342
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Posted - 2015.06.25 18:51:39 -
[43] - Quote
Kamahl Daikun wrote:Celthric Kanerian wrote:You're of course right, cause 1150 dps at 53 km optimal with Conflag in my Paladin is of course not good enough...
So, when that Frigate gets under your guns and starts slowly melting you...
Then you neut him and watch him flail around as his drones murder him. Or neut, scram drops, cycle MWD for transversal and volley him.
Well thats what i'd do anyway.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role
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Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3742
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Posted - 2015.06.25 19:19:52 -
[44] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Before this spins any further out of control - I miss the OLD GEDDON. The one with laser bonus and as a side dish it had 125mbits of unbonused drone fury.
Isn't that a Navy Geddon?
Oh god.
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GordonO
The Retired Officers Club
126
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Posted - 2015.06.25 19:54:56 -
[45] - Quote
atomic killer wrote:well...you could always use a battleship for mining purposes...take apoc, fit full rack of mining lasers and mine.
paladin would work better as you can use bastion to stop code from bumping you 
... What next ??
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1127
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Posted - 2015.06.29 12:22:00 -
[46] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:Before this spins any further out of control - I miss the OLD GEDDON. The one with laser bonus and as a side dish it had 125mbits of unbonused drone fury. Isn't that a Navy Geddon?
I want the old geddon back. Make the navy geddon the oversized cursemobile.
Look at it logically. Look at the geddon. With it's stunning SHAPE and textures it should enter the field of battle and SPEW hot seething death upon it's enemies. It should not land and start SUCKING cap or anything else. That boat was born to spew - anything else makes no sense.
PUT IT BACK THE WAY IT WAS!!!!! |
Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage
RAZOR Alliance
574
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Posted - 2015.07.10 16:11:53 -
[47] - Quote
Belthazor4011 wrote:Better lock and warp time be nice to be honest and I am sure things will change for the better again.
But its also a mindset thing. Everyone says Battleships are crap so it must be true, right?
Well if you actually know what you're doing with them that doesn't have to be the case at all. They still do WAY more DPS than any other ship class and tanks at T2 fitting level are still much higher (screw T3s, they cost more and you lose SP if it goes down).
I think 95% of EVE just forgot how to use them and in their shame are calling them crap. Which they are not...
It doesn't help when their price tag quadrupled over the last 4 years. Not only are people not understanding them they aren't placing them in any risk either. Most peoples experience with battleships is limited to pve.
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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Cannibal Zuza
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.07.11 01:13:07 -
[48] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Valkin Mordirc wrote:Traejun DiSanctis wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:Traejun DiSanctis wrote:Battleships have their place and are good at those things. No, solo PvP is not one of them. Being fast is similarly not one of them.
Keep in mind that CCP hasn't "revamped" the Battleships yet. I'm sure they will get to them soonish. So lets hold off on making comparisons. In what eve universe do you play? The geddon used to be magnificent laserboat of sentry doom. Now it's some crappy oversized curse. If that wasn't some form of 'cide' I don't know what is. Wait, wait... let me get this straight... your OP 'geddon of death isn't as faceroll as it used to be and you're now here crying about all Battleships sucking? K... thought so. Go write about it in your diary, cupcake. I'll be busy using my battleship to do stuff. Geddons weren't OP. They were good but not OP. The Sentry nerf lowered them a notch. Before this spins any further out of control - I miss the OLD GEDDON. The one with laser bonus and as a side dish it had 125mbits of unbonused drone fury. It's ultimate role was the HS afkposbashermobile. Make it cap stable, launch sentries, shoot tower, and go mow the lawn. I don't miss bashing HS pos, but I do miss the feel of landing on grid with a giant penis shaped monster of laser death doom and despair. It just felt so..... manly.
Makes you wonder what exactly you're thinking and doing when you fly this ship. Also THIS is another reason why CCP should consider changing the hull designs on these ships so that pilots like this don't get to distracted (about something erotic) while flying them.
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Justin Cody
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
290
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Posted - 2015.07.13 05:02:34 -
[49] - Quote
BABARR wrote:For me, no, they don't do WAY MORE dps.
A bit more dps, yes.
But a DPS who is hard to apply.
AND you are on the field way later, cause the warp speed is a joke.
AND you spend more time than any combat ship to lock something.
My problem is battleship should be a ship optimised and designed for military action, and a poor mining barge warp and lock faster, it's totaly non-sense.
CCP nerf the BS again and again, but they are already full of weakspot, and they are already not a lot used.
Battleships are a legacy of EVE from 2003/4 - They are not designed for the present state of the game (regardless of the meta).
Back when they were first created there was no Abaddon/Rokh/Maestrom or Hyperion - Those are later additions than even the Pirate BS's. Some have been updated nicely like the Typhoon to better represent a battleship's role. The MJD module has give some battleships a revitalized role in small gang. However they are stupidly slow to warp and represent big fat easy to tackle targets (excepting the Dominix and current Armageddon because of neuts).
The Scorpion's ECM specialization is unique amongst the platforms and leaves it lacking. It fills the most niche role and used to be the best option for it. Now you have rook/falcon/griffon/kitsune and others for jams. Additionally the % based ECM mode at the moment makes it very slot inefficient given how it cannot easily avoid being caught. It also has very little ability to take damage.
The Armageddon was rebalanced and represents the aging sentry-drone meta. It at least can be creatively fit. It used to be just a weak version of its Navy counterpart.
The Apoc is dimmed by the light of its Navy brother in arms - being only a bit more cap efficient.
The Abaddon is in a good place as a fleet ship but it also lacks a certain uniqueness since the apoc navy issue does basically the same job better.
The Raven is accepted widely as a decent pve platform but is heavily criticized by many PvPers in terms of its PvP ability because it is slow and some of the damage is easier to mitigate than say what the faster similarly armed Typhoon can accomplish. - It is redundant and its Navy sister ship is better in every way making it twice over redundant.
The Rokh is a fun gunship and has found its place in sov fleets, solo PvP (for those doing the dual ASB blaster fits) or smart bombing. - So the Caldari get 1 useful battleship and the Amarr also get 1 (in term of T1 lineup).
The Gallente:
Dominix - most flexible and useful battleship hull in-game. Drones drone drones
Megathron - fills a similar fleet role to the Rokh
Hyperion - Solo/Micro Fleet ship - still not as good as a Dominix for most things. - Better at Tackling a carrier. and solo tanking it (well before the fighter buff) - now largely useless.
Gallente get 2 Bs's that are useful although I'd go with 1.5x instead of 2 since the mega is still a bit underwhelming.
Minmatar:
Typhoon - Second only to the Domi in terms of usefulness. - Relatively fast, good damage across all ranges and applies it well. Can be Shield or Armor tanked and has drones. Its good. It is a better Raven.
Tempest - Recently boosted - fun ship - but honestly Typhoon or Maestrom accomplish the same thing.
Maelstrom - Fleet Artillery or Bait Tanked Cyno Ship. - Good but honestly a bit lackluster these days - Still a better Tempest than the Tempest all things being equal.
minmatar also get 1.5x battleships.
Navy BS's are T1 battleships on steroids with the notable Scorpion Navy Issue being a weaker version of the Rattlesnake.
Pirate BS's have more flavor with the top 2 being the Rattlesnake and Machariel. Dominix Navy Issue has a gun bonus rather than double drone, the Nightmare is good in incursions but sees little action elsewhere since its AB bnus is not significant enough to matter and it still moves like a small moon.
The Vindicator is awesome but only thanks to a 90% web and fairly generous fittings.
The Nestor is a BS that is a surprise for most. Over priced and under-powered it can turn the tide in a battle when used properly - still underwhelming considering the cost.
The Barghest - Point Range bonus and missiles and almost as fast as a Machariel? Made to Order awesome. Basically what the Raven or scorpion should have been post tiericide. Stealth Pancake.
Navy Armageddon - slightly higher DPS version of the Navpoc - moderately useful but Navpoc's damage projection and tracking bonus make it preferred. T1 Geddon's cap warfare is staggeringly more useful in a fleet than the Navy Geddon's damage. Missiles and drones+cap warfare is pretty sweet for options and it has one more mid-slot.
Navy Raven - King of PVE - never significantly seen in PvP in any role (abject failure).
Navy Typhoon - more heavily armored and flexible brother to the typhoon - Not bad but personally I'd rather just use a typhoon in most engagements anyhow. Maybe I'm wrong but this is one case where the T1 ship outshines its navy counterpart even if just barely.
All in all - Battleships suck because they are slow and for the most part do not apply damage well to swarming targets. They do not feel like the awesome beasts they were meant to be in 2003/4/5.
Marauders:
They are their own thing - useful in PvP with the Vargur and Golem being the best since their weapons don't use capacitor and their shield tanks are quite hard to breach. PvE They are still king with the Kronos and Paladin being easier to kill by far due to cap reliance.
Black Ops - They all suck - But the Sin and Panther are the easiest to fit and make flexible. The Widow can be scary with enough of them and the Redeemer is a good choice if you can't fly the Sin or Panther. Widows are for special snowflakes (including myself as it was my first BLOPS BS) I'll take the Panther with 1400's over anything except a hospital Sin any day. |
Justin Cody
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
290
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Posted - 2015.07.13 05:04:26 -
[50] - Quote
The Issue aside from speed is that each race only gets 1-2 useful out of the 3 in the T1 realm.
T2 Marauder/Black Ops are special and do fun things
Pirate Ships for the most part are similar in cost and vastly outclass their t1 and navy counterparts for all roles (excepting the Navy Apoc).
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Vibiana
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
18
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Posted - 2015.07.15 13:52:18 -
[51] - Quote
Justin Cody wrote:The Issue aside from speed is that each race only gets 1-2 useful out of the 3 in the T1 realm.
T2 Marauder/Black Ops are special and do fun things
Pirate Ships for the most part are similar in cost and vastly outclass their t1 and navy counterparts for all roles (excepting the Navy Apoc).
but. but ... cost is not a balancing paremater... (c) CCP
and then CCP throws in ridiculous build-in bunuses to the hulls. 100-150% base damage bonus, the most shiny being 375% on the Rattlesnake. LOL WUT? 4 !! four!! times normal output? (i'm aware of bandwidh)
And what do we see? Who the hell needs navy scorp? Or scorp?
Who the hell needs navy caracal/osprey if the is gila/orthrus
Bad design. ggwp.
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2324
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Posted - 2015.07.19 10:34:01 -
[52] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Atomeon wrote:Celthric Kanerian wrote:You're of course right, cause 1150 dps at 53 km optimal with Conflag in my Paladin is of course not good enough...
He talks about Empire battleships T1 (Not Faction or Marauders) Hyperion gets 1600 dps with a t2 fit.
Maybe against a stationary Titan :)
The "Battle" in battleship refers to how it feels to travel, force a fight or flee once engaged.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Gabriel Karade
Noir.
No Not Believing
259
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Posted - 2015.07.19 12:24:07 -
[53] - Quote
Historically, crappy scan resolution on battleships was used as a balancing factor, going back to 2003 - early 04, between them and smaller, before signature resolution for turrets was used as the principal means of balancing big vs small.
War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
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Hefalumps
Hundred Acre Mine Co.
0
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Posted - 2015.07.21 17:39:32 -
[54] - Quote
Gee, maybe the BS has a place as part of a fleet concept, you know, with tackle, anti-tackle, logi and such? |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2326
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Posted - 2015.07.21 23:19:02 -
[55] - Quote
Hefalumps wrote:Gee, maybe the BS has a place as part of a fleet concept, you know, with tackle, anti-tackle, logi and such?
Battleships always did have a place as part of a fleet concept, both in game and in real life. They also had a place as solo roamers both in game and in real life.
The problem today, they're useless in both roles comparative to other hulls such as T3, T2 and even the supposed tacklers (inties) who often now just form fleets of themselves.
Successive nerfs and buffs of both battleships and other ships have found the battleship lacking in almost all areas but especially in mobility which is an essential part of all PvP and will become more important in future.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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