There, now you have data for talking points when discussing the various sec zones in EVE Online.For example, someone could say that high sec trade hubs are more dangerous than most null sec systems and be correct according to the data.

I invite all players to open their maps and view a few statistics. Go to the "E" at the top of your in-game toolbar. Click on the map icon without the Beta symbol. On the stars tab on the World map window, click on statistics.

No select the pirate/police ships destroyed in the last 24 hours. This statistic will show how many NPCs have been blown up in the last 24 hours. It is important because the ships that blow up in null are obviously not police and have some sort of bounty attached. It could also mean someone was running missions and had a faction mission, but obviously not in the most remote parts of null.

Next choose the statistic for "ships destroyed in the last 24 hours". This will show the player ships that have been destroyed in the last 24 hours.

There, now you have data for talking points when discussing the various sec zones in EVE Online.For example, someone could say that high sec trade hubs are more dangerous than most null sec systems and be correct according to the data.

I invite all players to open their maps and view a few statistics. Go to the "E" at the top of your in-game toolbar. Click on the map icon without the Beta symbol. On the stars tab on the World map window, click on statistics.

No select the pirate/police ships destroyed in the last 24 hours. This statistic will show how many NPCs have been blown up in the last 24 hours. It is important because the ships that blow up in null are obviously not police and have some sort of bounty attached. It could also mean someone was running missions and had a faction mission, but obviously not in the most remote parts of null.

Next choose the statistic for "ships destroyed in the last 24 hours". This will show the player ships that have been destroyed in the last 24 hours.

There, now you have data for talking points when discussing the various sec zones in EVE Online.For example, someone could say that high sec trade hubs are more dangerous than most null sec systems and be correct according to the data.

Is it really dangerous to be in highsec? Um, no it isn't.

Ship loss statistics don't only measure pvp. They measure all ship loss, including losses to Concord, losses to rats (eg. look at starter systems regularly and they often show high rates of ship loss because new players die to rats).

It is very difficult to compare say kills in Jita to kills in nullsec systems because there's no normalisation of the numbers to account for population movement.

How many people visit Jita in a 24 hour period, versus how many visit a specific nullsec system (and there is no equivalent major nullsec hub, so even nullsec players that want to buy many things end up coming to highsec)?

So trying to say that highsec is more dangerous than nullsec also needs a clear understanding of what you mean by danger. If you are just going by raw ship loss, then highsec is where the population is.

How many of those deaths in highsec were:

1. Concord killing a fleet of catalysts that killed 1 other ship
2. Duels
3. Losses by new players to NPCs (often the starter systems show quite high numbers of loss because new players die to rats)

Is there more ship loss in highsec? Yes
Is it really dangerous to be in highsec? Um, no it isn't.

Oh there are plenty of possibilities. One thing is certain, there is a whole lotta PVE going on in null sec. More PVE than PVP it looks like.

So what?

People are doing things in Eve. Why is that an issue?

It also matches what CCP have said about bounty payments in nullsec. There is a lot of it.

On the issue of more PvE than PvP, that doesn't follow from those statistics and even if it did, who cares. Why is it important that people in nullsec are ratting? Is that not a valid playstyle for someone in nullsec?

For example, it could also be derived that null sec could use some more incentives for PVP...

Yeah sure. Isn't that what the sov changes are hoping to do?

Like, isn't more pvp one of the major reasons CCP are making changes in null? Haven't nullsec players been calling for changes to bring about more reasons to fight?

As to more PvE than PvP, I can only use my example, but it wouldn't be the way I see it. I run combat sites occasionally. I hate PvE, but it's needed both for ISK and for sec status (because of lowsec pvp). So 1 combat site takes me maybe an 40-60 minutes to run a rated DED site and I kill somewhere on the order of 60-80 rats. The rest of the time, I pvp. Do I kill 60-80 ships a week (or lose that many). Nowhere near it. But I don't PvE more than I PvP.

Well theyy could create the content for it themselves, but maybe you are right. Maybe they need the devs to hold their hand to get them to have "richer experiences". But I can only speculate on the data. Who knows, maybe the risk adverse carebears discovered this data longtime ago and joined null sec corps...

The data doesn't say so I guess we will never know...

Yeah sure, whatever knocks your socks off and gives you a hard on I guess.

We always need division in the community, so having opinions about other people's playstyle is a good way to drive it. Tit-fot-tat is one of the best ways to encourage others to keep knocking your own style of play whenever it comes up.

Do you really have to get that explicit?

Butthurt too?

Ok, sorry if I upset anyone's sensibilities.

What I like the most out of this thread is the conclusion that highsec ganking is a dangerous activity. Not the risk free pvp that it's often derided as. That's great. I'm not a ganker myself, but glad you are giving gankers some recognition for the risks they take.

There is an undertone of hypocrisy in your post, making me doubt your honesty. Your posting history reveals what you are about. Believing that people will somehow not add 1 and 1 together is quite insulting. Of course there is a hidden meaning behind this!

Uhm because most of those kills are from high sec gankers right?... Maybe they are carebears with teeth!

nullsec alliances as the most pvp active in the game,

Nullblobs generate a lot of killmails (including endless stream of POS mods ) but you shouldn't mistake that for actual PVP.

Nullblobs generate a lot of killmails (including endless stream of POS mods ) but you shouldn't mistake that for actual PVP.

Nullblobs generate a lot of killmails (including endless stream of POS mods ) but you shouldn't mistake that for actual PVP.

No, because those kills include losses to Concord as well.

If you look at the homepage of zkillboard, Concord is the #1 most killing Corporation in the game each week (almost always unless there is a huge fight somewhere):

http://www.zkillboard.com

So gankers lose lots of ships and those stats are part of the stats claimed to show that highsec is dangerous.

So ganking is a dangerous thing and clearly not risk free pvp.

If you look at top Alliances too, it usually shows nullsec alliances as the most pvp active in the game, with a couple of highsec and lowsec Alliances often in the list too.

This thread is insulting, full of hypocrisy and I will not dignify it with any further responses.

Well how do we know those are gankers though?
let say a quarterof the 300+ ships were gank related losses, where does the other three quarters come from?

What?

Who does Concord kill?

Are you saying Concord kills lots of people other than gankers?

If you jump from lowsec into highsec while carrying a criminal Timer then you will be Concorded also, but that is a very rare occurrence.

Concord kills gankers. They don't kill other people. It would be great if they did.

In the last 7 days, Concord has killed 4551 ships (as of right now). They are all pilots in ships, in highsec, carrying a criminal timer for agressing someone illegally.

Ship destroyed /= gank related kill

What?

Concord kills a ship only if a criminal is sitting in it. so aside from a small number of people who jump into highsec having gained a criminal timer in lowsec (it's very embarrassing to make your fleet do when you are the FC), all losses to Concord are highsec criminals.

So it's good to see gankers get recognition for the danger they face, since those losses are part of the stats that show how dangerous highsec is. Good that the OP acknowledges that ganking is not risk free pvp and is really quite dangerous.

I invite all players to open their maps and view a few statistics. Go to the "E" at the top of your in-game toolbar. Click on the map icon without the Beta symbol. On the stars tab on the World map window, click on statistics.

No select the pirate/police ships destroyed in the last 24 hours. This statistic will show how many NPCs have been blown up in the last 24 hours. It is important because the ships that blow up in null are obviously not police and have some sort of bounty attached. It could also mean someone was running missions and had a faction mission, but obviously not in the most remote parts of null.

Next choose the statistic for "ships destroyed in the last 24 hours". This will show the player ships that have been destroyed in the last 24 hours.

There, now you have data for talking points when discussing the various sec zones in EVE Online.For example, someone could say that high sec trade hubs are more dangerous than most null sec systems and be correct according to the data.