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LUMINOUS SPIRIT
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
754
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Posted - 2015.06.14 14:12:21 -
[1] - Quote
TL:DR - svipul in video easily tanks 2 RML caracals + other ****, proceeds to murder a gang of 5 by himself easily. This is bullcrap.
http://evenews24.com/2015/06/14/video-svipul-massacre/
I dont care what people say, a destroyer should NOT be able to tank a RLM cruiser, much less 2 cruisers + drones unloading clips into you.
In my own experience, a similar fitted svipul can easily murder a deimos, a pilgrim, can easily tank an orthrus, and generally maneuver like a boss with his 10mn afterburner.
obviously i have a svipul myself; but this is bullcrap, how do you even fight something like this 1 v 1 in a simular weight class?
The ship is ridiculously, retarderdly overpowered. With links, its radius is something like 10-12m, thats virtually immune to damage; even drones miss. |
George Boothe
Fugger de Lyx
46
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Posted - 2015.06.14 14:23:25 -
[2] - Quote
Linked/Implanted billion isk svipul kills a bunch of guys who lack the skills for even t2 drones.
Could have done basically the same in almost every other linked/implanted billion isk ship.
-> I don't see a problem here. |
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
754
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 14:25:03 -
[3] - Quote
George Boothe wrote:Linked/Implanted billion isk svipul kills a bunch of guys who lack the skills for even t2 drones.
Could have done basically the same in almost every other linked/implanted billion isk ship.
-> I don't see a problem here.
2 RLM caracals cant break a svipul and you dont see a problem? May i suggest a visit to optician? |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1449
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 14:26:31 -
[4] - Quote
Whenever i see someone doing something that others think is amazing in a video, i generally cant get past how amazing it is that he found a group of people so bad to kill.
Not gonna watch the vid but a crystal set, blue pill, booster and nice faction rep would be very strong i imagine. Specially if its 10mn fit mitigating a lot of rlml damage.
Has CCP already nerfed the fitting, or is that upcoming? |
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
754
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 14:28:18 -
[5] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Whenever i see someone doing something that others think is amazing in a video, i generally cant get past how amazing it is that he found a group of people so bad to kill.
Not gonna watch the vid but a crystal set, blue pill, booster and nice faction rep would be very strong i imagine. Specially if its 10mn fit mitigating a lot of rlml damage.
Has CCP already nerfed the fitting, or is that upcoming?
No this is fresh, he murders a jackdaw in the vid like its nothing. While under fire from rlm caracals. |
George Boothe
Fugger de Lyx
46
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Posted - 2015.06.14 14:35:02 -
[6] - Quote
Rlml caracals with bad skills. Missiles against oversized ab. The harby obiviously has no idea how to minimize transversal. the caracals sitting at 0 on the Svipul.
Good piloting by the svipul with links/imps/deadspace-fit against badly fit (mostly) newer players and he still had a hard time and dipped into armor.
Still looks pretty balanced to me.
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Arla Sarain
498
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 15:36:35 -
[7] - Quote
Why was the jackdaw at 4000?
Also 25m sigs aren't immune to damage, otherwise everyone would fly slashers. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
670
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 21:38:56 -
[8] - Quote
The Jackdaw better has scanned down and killed his Claymore. And a Sentinel is a nice ship, got neuted in 10s by one today in my Svipul, but with passive tank and cap-less weapons the pilot bailed when he got into armor and I lost my scram. The Svipul pilot in this video was lucky to counter a couple of not so expierienced opponents.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
387
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 22:34:56 -
[9] - Quote
https://zkillboard.com/kill/46759668/ |
Iyokus Patrouette
Sudden Buggery Prolapse.
515
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 23:19:12 -
[10] - Quote
Yeah i agree, OGB are OP need to be nerfed.
---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----
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Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1104
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 06:26:53 -
[11] - Quote
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:George Boothe wrote:Linked/Implanted billion isk svipul kills a bunch of guys who lack the skills for even t2 drones.
Could have done basically the same in almost every other linked/implanted billion isk ship.
-> I don't see a problem here. 2 RLM caracals cant break a svipul and you dont see a problem? 2 dedicated anti-tackle cruisers cannot even dent their primary target? May i suggest a visit to optician?
That's how sigtanking works. Try a linked dualrep Astero and see if it cares for two orthrus shooting it. (hint: it doesn't buckle) |
Traejun DiSanctis
Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance
149
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 07:13:09 -
[12] - Quote
Harrison Tato wrote:https://zkillboard.com/kill/46759668/
Oh, god... that fit. That isn't a good indicator of the Svipul's capability.
That said... its a strong ship. It's not OP. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
671
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 09:27:42 -
[13] - Quote
The Svipul is actually really good, 400+ DPS cap-less variable damage type, cap as hell, fast as an combat interceptor, insta-warp, scan res of a frig/ceptor, overheat bonus, combat probes, good slot mix for many suitable fits ... yeah, the all-in-one perfect solo ship. Also kill rank No. 1 on zKill for good reasons. Why flying something else?
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Mixery82
Friends Of Harassment EON Alliance
9
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 11:27:01 -
[14] - Quote
Yeah the Svipul is still OP but I am happy to see that the Minmartar have at least one good ship. |
Tung Yoggi
SnaiLs aNd FroGs
108
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 13:55:55 -
[15] - Quote
Some would say the whole T3D line is disruptive to the current frigate / destroyer meta, in a bad way. Among these, the svipul is one of the best because, among other reasons, it can still fit full tank and good dps while buzzing around with an oversized AB.
However, as someone already ironically pointed out, this video is more a testimony of why offgrid boosters are bad, and I can't wait for CCP next pass on this issue. Most of the younger solo pvpers i know are currently training their own link alt to be able to survive the meta. How bad is that ? Worse than the Svipul itself, I guess. |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
467
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 14:02:24 -
[16] - Quote
FTFY
Tung Yoggi wrote:Everyone says the whole T3D line is crapping all over the frigate/destroyer/AF meta, and they should be banned from small plexes, but trying to convince CCP of that isn't easy.
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Mira Chieve
Star Kingdom of Manticore
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 17:40:46 -
[17] - Quote
Why bring neuts to your gang, right ?
The ship is not OP, only the enemies are incompetent. Of course, blingy active tanks rep for a LOT, but bring them under neut pressure and they are done for.
A single sentinel with a TD would crap all over that svipul. Or an arbitrator with full rack o-¦ neuts. But people prefer to fit Missile Launchers into utility highs -.- |
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
756
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 19:29:33 -
[18] - Quote
Mira Chieve wrote:Why bring neuts to your gang, right ?
The ship is not OP, only the enemies are incompetent. Of course, blingy active tanks rep for a LOT, but bring them under neut pressure and they are done for.
A single sentinel with a TD would crap all over that svipul. Or an arbitrator with full rack o-¦ neuts. But people prefer to fit Missile Launchers into utility highs -.-
wrong and wrong.
a svipul would rip the sentinel in about 3 seconds, cause small capless guns dont give a crap about TD or neuts, and a svipul would easily have enough cap to burn into range.
and from personal experience, a svipul can pretty much ignore neuts anyways. I lost several pilgrims to solo svipuls, and they werent even pimped or linked. You know what happens? they shoot down the drones, then proceed to murder the pilgrim with capless guns. And same thing with a deimos, even under web and scram they can easily tank a full blaster fit deimos because small sig.
1 v 1 svipul is king of the hill, linked or unlinked. And king of the hill not by a small margin, but by FAR.
Just look at recent pvp stats (zkillboard):
Svipul 11,294 Sabre 9,131 Caracal 5,195 Stiletto 5,186 Confessor 5,033 Proteus 4,624 Loki 4,616 Malediction 4,560 Jackdaw 4,509 Ishtar 4,470
everything else is in 4-5k range, svipul FAR outpaces everything else.
Checking svipuls effectiveness - 91% survival rate.
91%
9 out 10 times you go against a svipul, you die.
This sound like a normal ship to you? I use svipuls as well, for this exact reason - unkillable. But its broken. Broken as hell. |
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
756
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 19:34:11 -
[19] - Quote
The fact that i can fit a 10MN cruiser afterburner is what makes it broken i think.
I could live with svipuls if they were forced to use microwarp drive and have a sig bloom while they do so, but to have a prop mod that makes you immune to scram and a web...
The thing can fly at 2k unlinked and maintain a 25m sig radius, how broken is this. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
672
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 20:03:53 -
[20] - Quote
You need cap to keep point/scram/web/AB/MWD running. You can still fire and have your buffer tank, but nothing else. But this reminds me to add a Nos to my fitting options instead of the neut.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
635
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 20:17:36 -
[21] - Quote
You think it is OP in lowsec? Try fighting one in a Wolf Rayet WH. |
Ares Desideratus
GUILD OF DOOM MOOD UBER SWAG ETERNAL
264
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 21:23:08 -
[22] - Quote
Many ships can be made to look overpowered. It's circumstantial.
I faced a small gang in my beam Coercer a week or two ago. It was comprised of several interceptors and a Svipul. I took the Svipul into armor without taking any damage myself, made him run away like little-*****, and got an interceptor kill to boot.
Does that mean the Coercer is over-powered? Nope. It just means I found a situation in which the Coercer could beam like the sun.
Having said all that, I really like the Svipul. I think it's a wonderful ship. I wish there were more ships like it.
What you really should striving for in this game, is to make a lot of the currently terrible ships better, not to make currently good ships terrible. There's a wide variety of garbage cans that need to be buffed or tweaked in some way, the Svipul isn't one of them. |
Lucy Callagan
SnaiLs aNd FroGs Drama Sutra
21
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 21:24:17 -
[23] - Quote
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
wrong and wrong.
a svipul would rip the sentinel in about 3 seconds, cause small capless guns dont give a crap about TD or neuts, and a svipul would easily have enough cap to burn into range.
No.
The fact With 10mn ab is that you agility is crap and you're super easy to quite. A sentinel pilot just has to hit 'orbit @ 20' and that's all. Those 2 mwd caracals should have been able to keep him at range, but they were just bad. And even if the svipul is maybe a bit powerful in a solo, it has just no utility in small gang due to its lack of damage projection.
[17:34:53] LucyCallagan > Respectez mon Eliterie je vous prie !
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Ares Desideratus
GUILD OF DOOM MOOD UBER SWAG ETERNAL
264
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 21:29:50 -
[24] - Quote
Lucy Callagan wrote:LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
wrong and wrong.
a svipul would rip the sentinel in about 3 seconds, cause small capless guns dont give a crap about TD or neuts, and a svipul would easily have enough cap to burn into range.
No. The fact With 10mn ab is that you agility is crap and you're super easy to kite. A sentinel pilot just has to hit 'orbit @ 20' and that's all. Those 2 mwd caracals should have been able to keep him at range, but they were just bad. And even if the svipul is maybe a bit powerful in a solo, it has just no utility in small gang due to its lack of damage projection. Also where did he get the idea that small artillery don't care about TDs? The Svipul can barely hit out to 50km. If it's a 280mm arty fit, he can make it a tough fight for the Sentinel, but there's no reason why a Sentinel couldn't engage him and then leave if he had to. Optimal range disruption script would be the obvious choice against Svipul. |
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
387
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 00:01:44 -
[25] - Quote
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:Harrison Tato wrote:https://zkillboard.com/kill/46759668/ Oh, god... that fit. That isn't a good indicator of the Svipul's capability. That said... its a strong ship. It's not OP.
Yeah but I didn't find out about it until AFTER I jumped on it. |
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1106
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 12:30:07 -
[26] - Quote
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote: wrong and wrong.
a svipul would rip the sentinel in about 3 seconds, cause small capless guns dont give a crap about TD or neuts, and a svipul would easily have enough cap to burn into range.
A tracking disrupted svipul got about 300m optimal and 1km falloff. Even in propmode he can't orbit within range with the 10mn running. Even worse, he'll be so dry you can just pick it up :>
The good point for the svipul: Even if he screws up and finds himself in a fight against something and a sentinel, he can just burn off at 4.5km/s. Svipul is good because it can dodge or escape that situation, not because he can deal with it. |
Mira Chieve
Star Kingdom of Manticore
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 14:08:07 -
[27] - Quote
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
wrong and wrong.
a svipul would rip the sentinel in about 3 seconds, cause small capless guns dont give a crap about TD or neuts, and a svipul would easily have enough cap to burn into range.
and from personal experience, a svipul can pretty much ignore neuts anyways. I lost several pilgrims to solo svipuls, and they werent even pimped or linked. You know what happens? they shoot down the drones, then proceed to murder the pilgrim with capless guns. And same thing with a deimos, even under web and scram they can easily tank a full blaster fit deimos because small sig.
1 v 1 svipul is king of the hill, linked or unlinked. And king of the hill not by a small margin, but by FAR.
This sound like a normal ship to you? I use svipuls as well, for this exact reason - unkillable. But its broken. Broken as hell.
You say it will kill everything with capless guns, but how is it going to tank without cap ? He cant even run his prop to speed tank. I have NEVER had a problem killing Svipuls, mostly in Moas and Thoraxes. Ab+ 2 webs work wonders.
Of course I understand it craps on everything else of its size and smaller, but why would I even engage it in a smaller ship ?
I have to say tho that my experience comes almost only from nullsec, which means no fancy pods and almost no OGBs. I can imagine it being hilariously OP in small FW plexes with full links and stuff. But hey, why fight them on their turf ?
|
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
756
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 15:08:47 -
[28] - Quote
Mira Chieve wrote:LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
wrong and wrong.
a svipul would rip the sentinel in about 3 seconds, cause small capless guns dont give a crap about TD or neuts, and a svipul would easily have enough cap to burn into range.
and from personal experience, a svipul can pretty much ignore neuts anyways. I lost several pilgrims to solo svipuls, and they werent even pimped or linked. You know what happens? they shoot down the drones, then proceed to murder the pilgrim with capless guns. And same thing with a deimos, even under web and scram they can easily tank a full blaster fit deimos because small sig.
1 v 1 svipul is king of the hill, linked or unlinked. And king of the hill not by a small margin, but by FAR.
This sound like a normal ship to you? I use svipuls as well, for this exact reason - unkillable. But its broken. Broken as hell.
You say it will kill everything with capless guns, but how is it going to tank without cap ? He cant even run his prop to speed tank. I have NEVER had a problem killing Svipuls, mostly in Moas and Thoraxes. Ab+ 2 webs work wonders. Of course I understand it craps on everything else of its size and smaller, but why would I even engage it in a smaller ship ? I have to say tho that my experience comes almost only from nullsec, which means no fancy pods and almost no OGBs. I can imagine it being hilariously OP in small FW plexes with full links and stuff. But hey, why fight them on their turf ?
I understand what you are saying, but cold statics say it kills 9 times out of 10. Thats way way overpowered.
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Ares Desideratus
RANDOM STARSHIP GUILD
264
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 16:51:10 -
[29] - Quote
If something is to be done about the Svipul, it must affect only the 10mn AB setup, because that seems to be the only setup which can be argued is OP. |
Lucy Callagan
SnaiLs aNd FroGs Drama Sutra
21
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 17:53:52 -
[30] - Quote
https://zkillboard.com/kill/47292298/
svipuls can still die to other frigates, once again, their damage projection is ****.
[17:34:53] LucyCallagan > Respectez mon Eliterie je vous prie !
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Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
467
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 18:41:47 -
[31] - Quote
Link a garbage fit that you won't find in a small plex in FW space by a pilot that knows anything about how to fit a ship, then use it as evidence that one of the most OP ships in the game isn't OP. Oh wait, you already did.
Lucy Callagan wrote:https://zkillboard.com/kill/47292298/
svipuls can still die to other frigates, once again, their damage projection is ****.
Maybe instead you should find a killmail of a decent Svipul fit in the environment where they are the strongest (FW space) and link that instead to prove it isn't OP?
Well ok, I'll do it for you: https://zkillboard.com/kill/47292282/
Oh wait a second, looks like they used a Svipul plus 3 other ships to kill a svipul. |
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
757
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 19:23:07 -
[32] - Quote
its not a matter of a single killmail, it is a matter of aggregate statistics.
Another day, another zkillboard snapshot - svipul once again rules the hill with 90%+ survival and success rate.
Interestingly enough, confessor and jackdaw are perfectly balanced and are in line with other ships of their class. |
Lucy Callagan
SnaiLs aNd FroGs Drama Sutra
21
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Posted - 2015.06.16 19:32:33 -
[33] - Quote
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:its not a matter of a single killmail, it is a matter of aggregate statistics.
Another day, another zkillboard snapshot - svipul once again rules the hill with 90%+ survival and success rate.
Interestingly enough, confessor and jackdaw are perfectly balanced and are in line with other ships of their class.
That 90% thing means nothing, just check zkill: For instance: confessor 90% Garmur 93%
[17:34:53] LucyCallagan > Respectez mon Eliterie je vous prie !
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LUMINOUS SPIRIT
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
757
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 19:42:37 -
[34] - Quote
Lucy Callagan wrote:LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:its not a matter of a single killmail, it is a matter of aggregate statistics.
Another day, another zkillboard snapshot - svipul once again rules the hill with 90%+ survival and success rate.
Interestingly enough, confessor and jackdaw are perfectly balanced and are in line with other ships of their class. That 90% thing means nothing, just check zkill: For instance: confessor 90% Garmur 93%
Youre right. But the fact that its the top ship in all the PvP tables, by far the top, this means something. |
Lucy Callagan
SnaiLs aNd FroGs Drama Sutra
21
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 20:49:16 -
[35] - Quote
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:Lucy Callagan wrote:LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:its not a matter of a single killmail, it is a matter of aggregate statistics.
Another day, another zkillboard snapshot - svipul once again rules the hill with 90%+ survival and success rate.
Interestingly enough, confessor and jackdaw are perfectly balanced and are in line with other ships of their class. That 90% thing means nothing, just check zkill: For instance: confessor 90% Garmur 93% Youre right. But the fact that its the top ship in all the PvP tables, by far the top, this means something.
It proves that it has high idiot-proof capabilities, not that it is an overpowered ship
[17:34:53] LucyCallagan > Respectez mon Eliterie je vous prie !
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Skelee VI
Wraithguard.
52
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Posted - 2015.06.16 21:10:50 -
[36] - Quote
Jackdaw has no dps for solo. Svip is a bit op but can still be killed. |
Dread Operative
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
438
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 02:31:15 -
[37] - Quote
This thread is all salty. I like it. |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
468
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 13:54:19 -
[38] - Quote
Just needs a little pepper!
Garmurs and Worms are OP as well :) |
Moglarr
Operation Meatshield
100
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 14:11:14 -
[39] - Quote
Thanatos Marathon wrote:Link a garbage fit that you won't find in a small plex in FW space by a pilot that knows anything about how to fit a ship, then use it as evidence that one of the most OP ships in the game isn't OP. Oh wait, you already did. Lucy Callagan wrote:https://zkillboard.com/kill/47292298/
svipuls can still die to other frigates, once again, their damage projection is ****. Maybe instead you should find a killmail of a decent Svipul fit in the environment where they are the strongest (FW space) and link that instead to prove it isn't OP? Well ok, I'll do it for you: https://zkillboard.com/kill/47292282/ Oh wait a second, looks like they used a Svipul plus 3 other ships to kill a svipul.
Svipuls die.
https://zkillboard.com/kill/47303640/ Svipul fleet vs Cruiser fleet.
https://zkillboard.com/kill/47300778/ Svipul vs faction frigs.
https://zkillboard.com/kill/47275234/ & https://zkillboard.com/kill/47275047/ Svipul underestimates the Meatsheidls. Pretty sure he was part of a fleet.
https://zkillboard.com/kill/47256538/ This one was a blingy brawl. A super fun fight that I warped into.
I seem to remember something about not posting kill mails, but these are to illustrate the fact that Svipuls are powerful but not unstoppable.
There have also been many Svipuls I have driven off the field with effective ECM. No kill mails came from it, but the important thing for us was that no Svipul murdered our faces.
If a Tech 3 Destroyer goes into defensive mode to taken your incoming DPS you can begin to control the engagement range to minimize DPS. If it goes into speed mode to try and catch you or dance away from you then he loses tank, and if he is using a 10mn AB or something weird like that he wont be able to keep a point on you and you could just boogie on away. If he goes sharpshooter so you can't jam him then he loses tank AND speed, so LOL @ that idea!
That being said, I do try to avoid fighting Svipuls whenever I can, because they are a very risky ship for me to engage with the fleets I usually fly. If everything goes right we bag an awesome kill, but if things go wrong we all die in a fire. So I like to try and keep the deck stacked in my favour.
Also I really wish they could not go into small plexes.
Operation Meatshield! GETUP and fight!
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Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
468
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Posted - 2015.06.17 14:39:13 -
[40] - Quote
No doubt, svipuls, as well as every other ship in the game, can be killed. |
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1451
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Posted - 2015.06.17 15:57:10 -
[41] - Quote
When you say effective ECM morg, do you mean a gallente jammer to jam a minmatar ship? |
Moglarr
Operation Meatshield
100
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Posted - 2015.06.17 17:01:14 -
[42] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:When you say effective ECM morg, do you mean a gallente jammer to jam a minmatar ship?
Nah, I use the Amarr one because it fits lore better for shutting down Minmatar.
Operation Meatshield! GETUP and fight!
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Dread Operative
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
439
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 19:20:03 -
[43] - Quote
I just bring cans of WD-40 to fight Svipuls. Been using a Jackjaw on my alt and haven't really had a problem fighting them. |
Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2015.06.17 21:08:26 -
[44] - Quote
Moglarr wrote:If a Tech 3 Destroyer goes into defensive mode to taken your incoming DPS you can begin to control the engagement range to minimize DPS. If it goes into speed mode to try and catch you or dance away from you then he loses tank I realize I'm speaking from the low end of the SP pool here - but that sounds a lot like "If he's slow, then you can control the engagement distance and that's good for you! If he's controlling the engagement distance due to speed, then that's also good for you!"
Moglarr wrote:That being said, I do try to avoid fighting Svipuls whenever I can, because they are a very risky ship for me to engage with the fleets I usually fly. Oh, well "My fleet stays away from lone Svipuls" doesn't sound OP at all.
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Dread Operative
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
439
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Posted - 2015.06.17 22:35:59 -
[45] - Quote
Moglarr wrote:That being said, I do try to avoid fighting Svipuls whenever I can, because they are a very risky ship for me to engage with the fleets I usually fly. Oh, well "My fleet stays away from lone Svipuls" doesn't sound OP at all. [/quote]
In all fairness it's because him and the rest of the Suj pipe residents were used to me roaming around in a 500m Svi, 1.5b pod, and links. If that can't handle 5-6 t1 fit frigs and dessies then nothing should. |
Dread Operative
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
439
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 22:40:06 -
[46] - Quote
Quote:Dread Operative wrote:Moglarr wrote:That being said, I do try to avoid fighting Svipuls whenever I can, because they are a very risky ship for me to engage with the fleets I usually fly. Oh, well "My fleet stays away from lone Svipuls" doesn't sound OP at all. In all fairness it's because him and the rest of the Suj pipe residents were used to me roaming around in a 500m Svi, 1.5b pod, and links. If that can't handle 5-6 t1 fit frigs and dessies then nothing should.
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exiik Shardani
Terpene Conglomerate
28
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 23:36:03 -
[47] - Quote
just easy think How often do you see solo svipul vs how often solo confessor/jack? and second ask what kind of doctrine fleet do you see? svipul doctrine is x times more often than other t3...
pure numbers:
https://zkillboard.com/ship/34562/solo/ -- 1700 solo kills
https://zkillboard.com/ship/34317/solo/ -- 583 solo kills
https://zkillboard.com/ship/34828/solo/ -- 500 solo kills
ship is simply op.... |
Moglarr
Operation Meatshield
100
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 00:01:34 -
[48] - Quote
Aerasia wrote:Moglarr wrote:If a Tech 3 Destroyer goes into defensive mode to taken your incoming DPS you can begin to control the engagement range to minimize DPS. If it goes into speed mode to try and catch you or dance away from you then he loses tank I realize I'm speaking from the low end of the SP pool here - but that sounds a lot like "If he's slow, then you can control the engagement distance and that's good for you! If he's controlling the engagement distance due to speed, then that's also good for you!" Moglarr wrote:That being said, I do try to avoid fighting Svipuls whenever I can, because they are a very risky ship for me to engage with the fleets I usually fly. Oh, well "My fleet stays away from lone Svipuls" doesn't sound OP at all.
SP has little to do with it. Ideally if the Svipul is moving slow you can keep out of his optimal range. If he is 10MN AB and moving fast then he is less agile and often ends up quickly out of point range and you can boogie away.
The reason I tend to have my fleet avoid Svipul gangs is more of an SP thing. My average gang of t1 frigs stand very little chance against a similar sized fleet of t3 dessies. That is more of a common sense thing tho, I think.
Operation Meatshield! GETUP and fight!
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ValentinaDLM
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
731
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 06:31:09 -
[49] - Quote
OP is mad, I find this laughable. The video proves nothing, and KB stats only prove a ship is popular.
The person in the Vid spent as much isk as the ships killed, working as intended, If you want to complain how about how heavy missiles are practically worthless in the vast majority of PVP situations. |
Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 07:34:21 -
[50] - Quote
Moglarr wrote:SP has little to do with it. ... The reason I tend to have my fleet avoid Svipul gangs is more of an SP thing.
You'll have to forgive the bitterness from somebody who knows that as Dread said:
Dread Operative wrote:In all fairness it's because him and the rest of the Suj pipe residents were used to me roaming around in a 500m Svi, 1.5b pod, and links. If that can't handle 5-6 t1 fit frigs and dessies then nothing should. ISKy fits win fights. And I don't even have the SP necessary to fit the modules expensive enough to compete (or the income necessary to flush them down the drain in constant PVP). |
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Moglarr
Operation Meatshield
100
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 13:28:24 -
[51] - Quote
Aerasia wrote:Moglarr wrote:SP has little to do with it. ... The reason I tend to have my fleet avoid Svipul gangs is more of an SP thing. You'll have to forgive the bitterness from somebody who knows that as Dread said: Dread Operative wrote:In all fairness it's because him and the rest of the Suj pipe residents were used to me roaming around in a 500m Svi, 1.5b pod, and links. If that can't handle 5-6 t1 fit frigs and dessies then nothing should. ISKy fits win fights. And I don't even have the SP necessary to fit the modules expensive enough to compete (or the income necessary to flush them down the drain in constant PVP).
Do not confuse Dread's statement to mean that ISK and SP win fights. As Dread said, I fought his Svipul a few times before they were adjusted. The times that I engaged I doubt I had anything fancier than t1 fit frigates. ISK, links, drugs and SP can give a pilot an edge in a fight but they do not promise victory. The reason his Svipul could take on small gangs of frigates is because he had complete range control with the 10MN AB couple that with good piloting and knowledge of how EVE works and then throw him into a fight against people who are not as familiar with the meta and he is bound to at least kill a lot of people.
What you should take away from Dread's statement is that in order to safely take on 5-6 t1 frigs and dessies he needed a 500m ship, 1.5b pod and a second account running links. That doesn't make a particular hull over powered. That is over two billion ISK in assets (not counting the links ship itself) deployed in order to kill 5-12 million ISK worth of ****.
Operation Meatshield! GETUP and fight!
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Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
468
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 13:52:46 -
[52] - Quote
Just ban em from smalls already to give Dessies and AFs a niche again outside of sniper corms and snarpies. |
Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 14:03:37 -
[53] - Quote
Moglarr wrote:Do not confuse Dread's statement to mean that ISK and SP win fights. ... What you should take away from Dread's statement is that in order to safely take on 5-6 t1 frigs and dessies he needed a 500m ship, 1.5b pod and a second account running links. Well, "ISKing up" seemed to work pretty well for Dread. I know that simply spending more ISK on your fit won't entirely auto-win the fight, but saying ISK/SP don't win fights is misguided at best (though a common belief among people who have both the ISK and SP).
As for whether or not that makes the hull OP - well, I'm personally not a real fan of the way power is set up in the hierarchy of hulls. If I had an established ISK flow that let me wipe my ass with HACs, I'd probably feel differently - but I have to say that not having the real option to upship colors my opinion of T2 resists, the extra tier of hull bonuses and the +10-20% on all the modules.
One day though.
|
Moglarr
Operation Meatshield
100
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 15:24:26 -
[54] - Quote
Aerasia wrote:Moglarr wrote:Do not confuse Dread's statement to mean that ISK and SP win fights. ... What you should take away from Dread's statement is that in order to safely take on 5-6 t1 frigs and dessies he needed a 500m ship, 1.5b pod and a second account running links. Well, "ISKing up" seemed to work pretty well for Dread. I know that simply spending more ISK on your fit won't entirely auto-win the fight, but saying ISK/SP don't win fights is misguided at best (though a common belief among people who have both the ISK and SP). As for whether or not that makes the hull OP - well, I'm personally not a real fan of the way power is set up in the hierarchy of hulls. If I had an established ISK flow that let me wipe my ass with HACs, I'd probably feel differently - but I have to say that not having the real option to upship colors my opinion of T2 resists, the extra tier of hull bonuses and the +10-20% on all the modules. One day though.
ISK and SP give a pilot advantages. That is what I am trying to underscore for you.
Some ships are "powerful" others are not. Each ship has niche rolls they can fit into because at the end of the day thru are just different tools to achieve different jobs. You can't expect your t1 frigates to be able to take on a HAC. If you do then you're being foolish. That being said, if you have a gang of t1 frigs against that HAC the situation changes drastically.
Do you get what I mean?
Operation Meatshield! GETUP and fight!
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Dread Operative
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
439
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 16:19:26 -
[55] - Quote
Expecting a 2m isk dessie to give you the around the same results as a 70m isk dessie is like expecting a $10k Honda Civic to perform on par with a $350k sports car. Of course income makes a difference, and it should. It's all dividends. 70m ship performs better, two 90m reps rep better, 80m EANM better resists, T2 rigs bigger bonuses, they are going to make a difference, and they should. Just my humble opionion though since I have both isk/SP and experience.
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=27713163 - first Svi kill. |
Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 17:21:16 -
[56] - Quote
Moglarr wrote:ISK and SP give a pilot advantages. That is what I am trying to underscore for you. And I agree, though apparently you don't like my take on the idea. :)
Player skill gives an advantage. Understanding the mechanics, Having the ISK to spend, Having the SP to fit, Having friends in local, These things all give advantages - and any one of them could be the thing 'responsible' for your win. I've got my own take on which of those are fun methods of gaining an advantage, but I realize that they'll all contribute to a greater or lesser degree in any given fight. And it's entirely possible that the lion's share of the responsibility for the win came from simply buying power with a heavy ISK investment.
Dread Operative wrote:Of course income makes a difference, and it should. For myself, it'd just be nice if there wasn't also the SP grind to deal with first. If all I had to do was figure out a way to earn an income instead of waiting for the SP for a proper fit (I think I'm only 2-ish weeks out from a half decent Frigate fit. Woooo.....) the ISK advantage would be easier to get behind.
None of which really addresses whether the Svipul itself is OP. I mean, it seems far more popular than the other T3s so... probably? |
Lucy Callagan
SnaiLs aNd FroGs Drama Sutra
22
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 21:08:24 -
[57] - Quote
Moglarr wrote:Aerasia wrote:Moglarr wrote:Do not confuse Dread's statement to mean that ISK and SP win fights. ... What you should take away from Dread's statement is that in order to safely take on 5-6 t1 frigs and dessies he needed a 500m ship, 1.5b pod and a second account running links. Well, "ISKing up" seemed to work pretty well for Dread. I know that simply spending more ISK on your fit won't entirely auto-win the fight, but saying ISK/SP don't win fights is misguided at best (though a common belief among people who have both the ISK and SP). As for whether or not that makes the hull OP - well, I'm personally not a real fan of the way power is set up in the hierarchy of hulls. If I had an established ISK flow that let me wipe my ass with HACs, I'd probably feel differently - but I have to say that not having the real option to upship colors my opinion of T2 resists, the extra tier of hull bonuses and the +10-20% on all the modules. One day though. ISK and SP give a pilot advantages. That is what I am trying to underscore for you. Some ships are "powerful" others are not. Each ship has niche rolls they can fit into because at the end of the day thru are just different tools to achieve different jobs. You can't expect your t1 frigates to be able to take on a HAC. If you do then you're being foolish. That being said, if you have a gang of t1 frigs against that HAC the situation changes drastically. Do you get what I mean? You can actually kill a hac with a frig, when i hunt with my succubus, my main targets are ishtars, but i must recognise that my fit is pretty expensive. But you can kill lots of cruisers even hacs by getting under their guns (for instance zealots and even some rare 425mm cynas) https://zkillboard.com/kill/45910026/
[17:34:53] LucyCallagan > Respectez mon Eliterie je vous prie !
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Traejun DiSanctis
Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance
150
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 06:40:01 -
[58] - Quote
Lucy Callagan wrote:You can actually kill a hac with a frig, when i hunt with my succubus, my main targets are ishtars, but i must recognise that my fit is pretty expensive. But you can kill lots of cruisers even hacs by getting under their guns (for instance zealots and even some rare 425mm cynas) https://zkillboard.com/kill/45910026/
Succubus is particularly good at punching above its weight class. There's a few pirate frigs that do this exceptionally well. Worm and to a lesser extent rocket Garmur are also excellent choices. |
George Boothe
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
48
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 09:21:21 -
[59] - Quote
Aerasia wrote:For myself, it'd just be nice if there wasn't also the SP grind to deal with first. If all I had to do was figure out a way to earn an income instead of waiting for the SP for a proper fit (I think I'm only 2-ish weeks out from a half decent Frigate fit. Woooo.....)
Why are you waiting 2 weeks to get into a frigate? I can understand that if you want a standard allround pvp frig fit, but that is not at all necessary for someone new to pvp.
It takes less than 4 days training time to build a t1 fit frigate that works, you just have to build it as a specific counter against a very narrow range of enemies. That way your engagement range is severely limited, but you can hold your ground against the ships you directly counter. Of course, you will not be very efficient at first but you are playing the game, learing stuff and not get totally slaughtered instead of waiting 2 weeks staring at your skillqueue and getting slaughtered afterwards because SP means very little in the rock/paper/scissors that is frigate pvp. More SP just means you can fit your ships a little more generalized and broaden the range of ships you can engage.
Just as an example: This fit takes less than 3 days to get into and gives you a decent chance to hunt kiting slicers.
[Slasher, slicer killer]
F85 Peripheral Damage System I Nanofiber Internal Structure II
5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I 1MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50
125mm Light Prototype Automatic Cannon, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S 125mm Light Prototype Automatic Cannon, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S 125mm Light Prototype Automatic Cannon, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S [Empty High slot]
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Obviously you will not automatically kill every slicer you engage in this but it gives you a fighting chance to kill someone with years of SP in a ship that costs about 7 times as much as yours. |
Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 14:24:05 -
[60] - Quote
George Boothe wrote:Why are you waiting 2 weeks to get into a frigate? Depends on how many wrecks it takes before you are no longer 'waiting 2 weeks'. I've already got a hanger I'm rapidly depleting of frigates, with fits not too terribly different than yours. But the engagement profiles are, as you said, so very tiny that anything I do meet is usually outside it. And then I get blown up because I don't remember every hull fitting tendency by heart. :P
The weeks I'm waiting for is when I can fit something better. And then there will be another wait while I get my ISK generating skills up to fund these bigger, more generally competent fits. |
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Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
636
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 17:33:35 -
[61] - Quote
Aerasia wrote:George Boothe wrote:Why are you waiting 2 weeks to get into a frigate? Depends on how many wrecks it takes before you are no longer 'waiting 2 weeks'. I've already got a hanger I'm rapidly depleting of frigates, with fits not too terribly different than yours. But the engagement profiles are, as you said, so very tiny that anything I do meet is usually outside it. And then I get blown up because I don't remember every hull fitting tendency by heart. :P The weeks I'm waiting for is when I can fit something better. And then there will be another wait while I get my ISK generating skills up to fund these bigger, more generally competent fits.
Sounds to me like you need to be learning what you can and cannot engage. Knowing what your ship can and cannot engage is a key skill to know in pvp. For example, I see a Condor on dscan in a novice plex. I'm in a blaster fit brawling Comet. I do not take that fight. Why? Because chances are the Condor is fit to kite and is already setup in the plex. |
Portmanteau
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
58
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 18:16:35 -
[62] - Quote
Thanatos Marathon wrote:Just ban em from smalls already to give Dessies and AFs a niche again outside of sniper corms and snarpies. Not empty quoting |
Sleepaz Den
Artificial Memories
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 00:49:28 -
[63] - Quote
Aerasia wrote:George Boothe wrote:Why are you waiting 2 weeks to get into a frigate? Depends on how many wrecks it takes before you are no longer 'waiting 2 weeks'. I've already got a hanger I'm rapidly depleting of frigates, with fits not too terribly different than yours. But the engagement profiles are, as you said, so very tiny that anything I do meet is usually outside it. And then I get blown up because I don't remember every hull fitting tendency by heart. :P The weeks I'm waiting for is when I can fit something better. And then there will be another wait while I get my ISK generating skills up to fund these bigger, more generally competent fits.
Frigates aren't quite that rookie friendly compared to destroyers. As a new pilot, you can leave the automatic name *Aerasia's Thrasher* on it and just sit in smalls, waiting for people to warp to you. With the cover of a young pilot, people drastically overestimate their ships or underestimate the thrasher.
[Thrasher, Meta]
400mm Crystalline Carbonide Restrained Plates Damage Control II
5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive X5 Prototype Engine Enervator J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
200mm Light Gallium Machine Gun, Republic Fleet EMP S 200mm Light Gallium Machine Gun, Republic Fleet EMP S 200mm Light Gallium Machine Gun, Republic Fleet EMP S 200mm Light Gallium Machine Gun, Republic Fleet EMP S 200mm Light Gallium Machine Gun, Republic Fleet EMP S 200mm Light Gallium Machine Gun, Republic Fleet EMP S 200mm Light Gallium Machine Gun, Republic Fleet EMP S Small 'Gremlin' Power Core Disruptor I
Small Anti-Kinetic Pump I Small Anti-Thermic Pump I Small Projectile Burst Aerator I
Is a quite simple and reliant fit. Sit in plex, pre-OH everything. If whatever is warping to you is likely to do exp. damage, warp out. Else, good luck. |
Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 06:58:21 -
[64] - Quote
Sleepaz Den wrote:With the cover of a young pilot, people drastically overestimate their ships or underestimate the thrasher. The "Member of vanity corp since March 2005" might hurt with that, but I get the point about the Dessie.
And hey, getting the T1 Dessie is the first step to getting the T3.
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Darth Magus
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 17:16:17 -
[65] - Quote
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:Mira Chieve wrote:Why bring neuts to your gang, right ?
The ship is not OP, only the enemies are incompetent. Of course, blingy active tanks rep for a LOT, but bring them under neut pressure and they are done for.
A single sentinel with a TD would crap all over that svipul. Or an arbitrator with full rack o-¦ neuts. But people prefer to fit Missile Launchers into utility highs -.- wrong and wrong. a svipul would rip the sentinel in about 3 seconds, cause small capless guns dont give a crap about TD or neuts, and a svipul would easily have enough cap to burn into range. and from personal experience, a svipul can pretty much ignore neuts anyways. I lost several pilgrims to solo svipuls, and they werent even pimped or linked. You know what happens? they shoot down the drones, then proceed to murder the pilgrim with capless guns. And same thing with a deimos, even under web and scram they can easily tank a full blaster fit deimos because small sig. 1 v 1 svipul is king of the hill, linked or unlinked. And king of the hill not by a small margin, but by FAR. Just look at recent pvp stats (zkillboard): Svipul 11,294 Sabre 9,131 Caracal 5,195 Stiletto 5,186 Confessor 5,033 Proteus 4,624 Loki 4,616 Malediction 4,560 Jackdaw 4,509 Ishtar 4,470 everything else is in 4-5k range, svipul FAR outpaces everything else. Checking svipuls effectiveness - 91% survival rate. 91% 9 out 10 times you go against a svipul, you die. This sound like a normal ship to you? I use svipuls as well, for this exact reason - unkillable. But its broken. Broken as hell.
Garmur has a higher survival and kill rate. I kill Svipuls in an Algos (because who would not engage that?) and it really depends on a pilot's skill (more like fitting meta skill) and awareness. I'd say that a dual-active rep 10mn Confessor is much deadlier then the Svipul but very few ppl know/fly that.
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Darth Magus
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 17:37:52 -
[66] - Quote
Sleepaz Den wrote:Aerasia wrote:George Boothe wrote:Why are you waiting 2 weeks to get into a frigate? Depends on how many wrecks it takes before you are no longer 'waiting 2 weeks'. I've already got a hanger I'm rapidly depleting of frigates, with fits not too terribly different than yours. But the engagement profiles are, as you said, so very tiny that anything I do meet is usually outside it. And then I get blown up because I don't remember every hull fitting tendency by heart. :P The weeks I'm waiting for is when I can fit something better. And then there will be another wait while I get my ISK generating skills up to fund these bigger, more generally competent fits. Frigates aren't quite that rookie friendly compared to destroyers. As a new pilot, you can leave the automatic name *Aerasia's Thrasher* on it and just sit in smalls, waiting for people to warp to you. With the cover of a young pilot, people drastically overestimate their ships or underestimate the thrasher. [Thrasher, Meta] 400mm Crystalline Carbonide Restrained Plates Damage Control II 5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive X5 Prototype Engine Enervator J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I 200mm Light Gallium Machine Gun, Republic Fleet EMP S 200mm Light Gallium Machine Gun, Republic Fleet EMP S 200mm Light Gallium Machine Gun, Republic Fleet EMP S 200mm Light Gallium Machine Gun, Republic Fleet EMP S 200mm Light Gallium Machine Gun, Republic Fleet EMP S 200mm Light Gallium Machine Gun, Republic Fleet EMP S 200mm Light Gallium Machine Gun, Republic Fleet EMP S Small 'Gremlin' Power Core Disruptor I Small Anti-Kinetic Pump I Small Anti-Thermic Pump I Small Projectile Burst Aerator I Is a quite simple and reliant fit. Sit in plex, pre-OH everything. If whatever is warping to you is likely to do exp. damage, warp out. Else, good luck.
Very good point.
Proof:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?eid=47038342
(This happened on a small plex on the warpin gate, I guess the pilot derped a bit or felt overcomfident - which was the goal anyway) |
Petre en Thielles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
147
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 14:44:57 -
[67] - Quote
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:TL:DR - svipul in video easily tanks 2 RML caracals + other ****, proceeds to murder a gang of 5 by himself easily. This is bullcrap. http://evenews24.com/2015/06/14/video-svipul-massacre/ I dont care what people say, a destroyer should NOT be able to tank a RLM cruiser, much less 2 cruisers + drones unloading clips into you. In my own experience, a similar fitted svipul can easily murder a deimos, a pilgrim, can easily tank an orthrus, and generally maneuver like a boss with his 10mn afterburner. obviously i have a svipul myself; but this is bullcrap, how do you even fight something like this 1 v 1 in a simular weight class? The ship is ridiculously, retarderdly overpowered. With links, its radius is something like 25m, thats virtually immune to damage; even drones miss.
That video has nothing to do with the svipul. It's just more proof that any booster should have to be on grid to give any bonuses. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1455
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 15:56:28 -
[68] - Quote
Petre en Thielles wrote:LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:TL:DR - svipul in video easily tanks 2 RML caracals + other ****, proceeds to murder a gang of 5 by himself easily. This is bullcrap. http://evenews24.com/2015/06/14/video-svipul-massacre/ I dont care what people say, a destroyer should NOT be able to tank a RLM cruiser, much less 2 cruisers + drones unloading clips into you. In my own experience, a similar fitted svipul can easily murder a deimos, a pilgrim, can easily tank an orthrus, and generally maneuver like a boss with his 10mn afterburner. obviously i have a svipul myself; but this is bullcrap, how do you even fight something like this 1 v 1 in a simular weight class? The ship is ridiculously, retarderdly overpowered. With links, its radius is something like 25m, thats virtually immune to damage; even drones miss. That video has nothing to do with the svipul. It's just more proof that any booster should have to be on grid to give any bonuses.
Take the boosts away an you will just never have a scenareo where one dude is willing go on grid vs many because the solo, micro and small gangs will become more of a numbers game. |
Doctor Knuckles
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
127
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 16:50:37 -
[69] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Take the boosts away an you will just never have a scenareo where one dude is willing go on grid vs many because the solo, micro and small gangs will become more of a numbers game.
Bullshit.
The fact you're too risk adverse to do it does not mean we all are. I go full unlinked solo leeroy in my slicer against gangs all the time, on gates, out of plexes, sliding into occupied plexes, i don't give a single ****.
And i don't mean it as an offense, i just get a thrill out of risky against the odds situations, as i would say a lot of people that go solo do. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1455
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 17:18:44 -
[70] - Quote
Doctor Knuckles wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Take the boosts away an you will just never have a scenareo where one dude is willing go on grid vs many because the solo, micro and small gangs will become more of a numbers game.
Bullshit. The fact you're too risk adverse to do it does not mean we all are. I go full unlinked solo leeroy in my slicer against gangs all the time, on gates, out of plexes, sliding into occupied plexes, i don't give a single ****. And i don't mean it as an offense, i just get a thrill out of risky against the odds situations, as i would say a lot of people that go solo do.
Im talking about using boosters to punching above your ships class and to lure people into more interesting fights., engaging multiple cruisers in a dessie as per the video, not engaging a couple of t1 frigs or dessies in a t3 dessy lol. Which pretty much accounts for the kills you are bragging about.
You dont need boosts when you are going into a fight outnumbered but when you hull vastly outclasses the enemies t1 fit t1 dessy lol. |
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Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
476
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 17:51:11 -
[71] - Quote
snuggles. |
Doctor Knuckles
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
127
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 18:41:48 -
[72] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Doctor Knuckles wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Take the boosts away an you will just never have a scenareo where one dude is willing go on grid vs many because the solo, micro and small gangs will become more of a numbers game.
Bullshit. The fact you're too risk adverse to do it does not mean we all are. I go full unlinked solo leeroy in my slicer against gangs all the time, on gates, out of plexes, sliding into occupied plexes, i don't give a single ****. And i don't mean it as an offense, i just get a thrill out of risky against the odds situations, as i would say a lot of people that go solo do. Im talking about using boosters to punch above your ships class and to lure people into more interesting fights., engaging multiple cruisers in a dessie as per the video, not engaging a couple of t1 frigs or dessies in a t3 dessy lol. Which pretty much accounts for the kills you are bragging about. You dont need boosts when you are going into a fight slightly outnumbered but when your hull vastly outclasses the enemies t1 fit t1 dessy lol.
i obviously wasn't talking about those kills in my t3s, if you go thruh my killboard (hint, click "solo") you'll see that except in the past week or so i fly slicers 90% of the time, and i engage everything with it, from lone pilots to gangs, t1s, pirate, dessies, cruisers.
Before that there was the odd dual prop comet i used to murder the usual condors and tristans plexing squads. I stand by what i said, i engage frigs and dessie gangs, some cruisers too, in a frig, unlinked, all the time, which isn't bragging, luckily there are plenty of pilots that do.
Quote: I know you always post hostile to me with claims of risk aversion. I put it down to some sort of insecurity and move on.
i literally never posted hostile to you. Actually, i 'm positive i never posted to you period. I'll put your unnecessarily defensive reply down to some sort of insecurity and move on.
Also, when you fly garmurs most of the time, it's not "claims" of risk aversion. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1455
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 19:46:28 -
[73] - Quote
This is like the 3rd and 4th time in the last few weeks where you have called me risk averse and bragged about how awesome you are lol.
And there is no difference between me in a 350m isk garmur kiting, and you in a 20m isk slicer kiting. To some were both risk averse. I just play for more than random ganks so not having to reship every 15 minutes is an advantage :) |
Doctor Knuckles
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
127
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 19:54:00 -
[74] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:This is like the 3rd and 4th time in the last few weeks where you have called me risk averse and bragged about how awesome you are lol.
please do quote me
Quote: And there is no difference between me in a 350m isk (linked and snaked) garmur kiting, and you in a 20m isk slicer kiting.
i don't even
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1455
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 20:06:28 -
[75] - Quote
Doctor Knuckles wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:This is like the 3rd and 4th time in the last few weeks where you have called me risk averse and bragged about how awesome you are lol.
please do quote me Quote: And there is no difference between me in a 350m isk (linked and snaked) garmur kiting, and you in a 20m isk slicer kiting.
i don't even .... ah well. To all the common sense people. I ain't bragging, i don't care about e-peen, in fact i'm quite an average pilot, or maybe just barely above, i do plenty of stupid **** and i lose ship in stupid ways, i just want to encourage people to have fun and abandon this cancerous mindset of "buuuuuuawwwwhh i don't have links i can't solo it's pointless"
The 3rd and 4th hostile posts where you call me risk averse and brag about your kills are in this very thread lol.
And this post goes into the 'WHY DOESNT EVERYONE PLAY LIKE ME, CCP MAKE IT SO EVERYONE HAS TO PLAY LIKE ME' category.
Having links and soloing, is not the same as not being able to solo without links. However, my fits are built with links in mind which is not at all the same thing.
As for links and snakes, i think you are just too risk averse to put a 3bn isk pod in space in a ship with 1800ehp ;)
What else is there to do with the isk? |
Doctor Knuckles
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
127
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 20:56:39 -
[76] - Quote
lol my first post in this thread is in this page, and right after you come and tell me i sort of stalk you posting against you everywhere everytime, when i literally never replied to you
are you even for real man, what the hell >_>
as for the rest of your post, yeah, whatever, you win, 100 internets points and a cookie for you, and the special unique badge "Ironestestest balls in New Eden" - awarded only to the bravest of souls daring the space, the gods and fate itself by risking a snake pod in a linked garmur.
Congrats.
\o/
I'm outta here |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1458
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 21:50:10 -
[77] - Quote
I didnt say that, your first and second post in this thread each said i was risk averse and that your alleged style of play was the best.
You have followed this exact same posting pattern in older threads at least 2 other times in older threads as i recall. Didnt say you were stalking, just that you seem bitter for some reason. |
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
644
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 21:51:33 -
[78] - Quote
I can't wait till the Hecate comes out. If people think the Svipul is OP, the Hecate is going to make everyone cry. |
Lucy Callagan
SnaiLs aNd FroGs Drama Sutra
22
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 21:52:36 -
[79] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:I can't wait till the Hecate comes out. If people think the Svipul is OP, the Hecate is going to make everyone cry.
Not sure, the 10mn ab thingy is not viable on that ship
[17:34:53] LucyCallagan > Respectez mon Eliterie je vous prie !
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LUMINOUS SPIRIT
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
846
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 00:11:31 -
[80] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:I can't wait till the Hecate comes out. If people think the Svipul is OP, the Hecate is going to make everyone cry.
Nope, hecate came out, and at its core its simular to an eris. Quick, high dps, but not very tanky at all, and massive sig bloom when moving.
Balanced little destroyer, in other words. |
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Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
644
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 17:45:24 -
[81] - Quote
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:I can't wait till the Hecate comes out. If people think the Svipul is OP, the Hecate is going to make everyone cry. Nope, hecate came out, and at its core its simular to an eris. Quick, high dps, but not very tanky at all, and massive sig bloom when moving. Balanced little destroyer, in other words.
Your doing it wrong. Bonus to hull resists. Buffer hull tank that thing. It is nothing like the Eris. I don't know of an Eris that can get 700 dps. Gank is tank. |
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
848
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 17:58:29 -
[82] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:I can't wait till the Hecate comes out. If people think the Svipul is OP, the Hecate is going to make everyone cry. Nope, hecate came out, and at its core its simular to an eris. Quick, high dps, but not very tanky at all, and massive sig bloom when moving. Balanced little destroyer, in other words. Your doing it wrong. Bonus to hull resists. Buffer hull tank that thing. It is nothing like the Eris. I don't know of an Eris that can get 700 dps. Gank is tank.
Dude, i can easily push an eris to 1000 dps. 700 is normal for it.
I run my eris'es with polarized weaponry actually for that 1000, because gank is tank, youre right, but an eris with void and blasters pushes out 650 non-heat (3 mag stabs of course). |
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
644
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 13:50:39 -
[83] - Quote
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:I can't wait till the Hecate comes out. If people think the Svipul is OP, the Hecate is going to make everyone cry. Nope, hecate came out, and at its core its simular to an eris. Quick, high dps, but not very tanky at all, and massive sig bloom when moving. Balanced little destroyer, in other words. Your doing it wrong. Bonus to hull resists. Buffer hull tank that thing. It is nothing like the Eris. I don't know of an Eris that can get 700 dps. Gank is tank. Dude, i can easily push an eris to 1000 dps. 700 is normal for it. I run my eris'es with polarized weaponry actually for that 1000, because gank is tank, youre right, but an eris with void and blasters pushes out 650 non-heat (3 mag stabs of course).
Haven't tried polarized weaps on the Hecate. The dps I was quoting was just from T2 neutron blasters. ofc, polarized weaps = no resists.
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Zappity
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
2291
|
Posted - 2015.06.27 23:17:41 -
[84] - Quote
Of course it is OP. The killboard rankings are perfectly clear. T3Ds, and especially the Svipul, are terrible for small ship diversity.
Having said that, they are very fun to fly against multiple opponents and higher ship classes. But it isn't worth the havoc that had been wreaked on what was a relatively healthy small ship meta.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1146
|
Posted - 2015.06.28 01:19:58 -
[85] - Quote
Zappity wrote:[...] relatively healthy small ship meta.
So garmurs, ships that can slingshot a garmur, and worms that kill you even if you catch them go as healthy? |
Barrogh Habalu
Forever Winter Absolute Zero.
893
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 11:48:26 -
[86] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Take the boosts away an you will just never have a scenareo where one dude is willing go on grid vs many because the solo, micro and small gangs will become more of a numbers game. Sorry for going back to this piece of offtopic, but I always failed to grasp the concept of "force multipliers, being more effective when applied to multiple recipients, keeping solos / small groups competitive". |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1468
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 12:46:27 -
[87] - Quote
Barrogh Habalu wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Take the boosts away an you will just never have a scenareo where one dude is willing go on grid vs many because the solo, micro and small gangs will become more of a numbers game. Sorry for going back to this piece of offtopic, but I always failed to grasp the concept of "force multipliers, being more effective when applied to multiple recipients, keeping solos / small groups competitive".
It opens up a wider range of engagement styles. |
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1161
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 15:16:43 -
[88] - Quote
Barrogh Habalu wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Take the boosts away an you will just never have a scenareo where one dude is willing go on grid vs many because the solo, micro and small gangs will become more of a numbers game. Sorry for going back to this piece of offtopic, but I always failed to grasp the concept of "force multipliers, being more effective when applied to multiple recipients, keeping solos / small groups competitive".
Very commonly the smaller group has better organization or higher player-skill at disposal, or atleast feel confident being able to deal with the threat at hand by eliminating certain - for the smaller gang devastating - aspects of the bigger group, like long range dps, logistics or fleet tackle using force multipliers. A lot of comping, preparation and experience factor in aswell, making one keres damp the correct targets more valueable than their three celestis damping your gilas (for example).
The organization and coordination required to exploit force multipliers correctly is generally not avaiable in your regular crap-tier HD fleet, making numbers on grid the perfect answer in that situation - if you field more logistics/falcons/blackbirds than they got people, you should win right? So the small gang lands right on the gate, you order one of your guys to push them through, they jump, you jump, they jump back, you reapproach to jump back, the guy who pushed them through cries a river because his derptron got 'sploded and when you're back on the same grid, they're suddenly 70k off the gate regardless of the bubble you just put up. Hurrrrr. And that's where skirmish and info links kick in, aswell as proper EWAR skills. Damps are terribly dangerous for hero lemmings.
A point you might be overlooking: A regular web reaches to 10km, a linked and heated one webs to almost 17km. Go a step further with a cheap FN web and you got some 23km (or 21k if you're a shadow serp user)webrange against their optimistic 17k, making it very hard to pin you down. Linked faction tackle becomes slightly absurd, and is usually flown by people that also got the required knowledge to make use of it. Factor in the strengths of a tuned, well-coordinated small gang against a big gang of individually weak ships requiring on logi (to be damped) to stay alive, and you really got different , more optimistic odds than without links.
Also, training a toon into links takes about two month for just skirmish, and the rest is fairly optional and takes 2-3 weeks each if I remember correctly. The time required to get a fresh toon to electronic upgrades V simply doesn't count. Training links is easier than training a proper hyena or sentinel, so that certainly isn't the excuse. |
Barrogh Habalu
Forever Winter Absolute Zero.
895
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 06:41:02 -
[89] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:A point you might be overlooking: A regular web reaches to 10km, a linked and heated one webs to almost 17km. Go a step further with a cheap FN web and you got some 23km (or 21k if you're a shadow serp user)webrange against their optimistic 17k, making it very hard to pin you down. Linked faction tackle becomes slightly absurd, and is usually flown by people that also got the required knowledge to make use of it. Factor in the strengths of a tuned, well-coordinated small gang against a big gang of individually weak ships requiring on logi (to be damped) to stay alive, and you really got different , more optimistic odds than without links. I'm not overlooking that. I'm just pointing out that every time cool "we fight outnumbered" guys bring up the point how links make them able to survive they assume that they are going to be only ones with links despite them being as effective, if not more, when applied to proverbial "blob". Not to mention equally strange assumption that people with some brainpower and skill are allergic to larger gangs or at least to having meatshields. Although maybe there is some correlation (like, people who can fly with little backup don't need to go through the hassle of gathering a gang, maybe?).
Lloyd Roses wrote:Also, training a toon into links takes about two month for just skirmish, and the rest is fairly optional and takes 2-3 weeks each if I remember correctly. The time required to get a fresh toon to electronic upgrades V simply doesn't count. Training links is easier than training a proper hyena or sentinel, so that certainly isn't the excuse. So, isn't it more likely to find that one guy with booster alt among 20 people rather than 2, especially that it doesn't take that much dedication?
Honestly, the only valid point speaking for "small PvPer" is that people who treat their PvP seriously are minority and hence are apparently (?) unlikely to form a "blob", but it takes someone like that to bother with training and managing a booster, and maybe spending on expensive fits too. So there's that. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1468
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 08:11:23 -
[90] - Quote
Links enable wider engagement styles regardless of the enemy having links.
I kited on the edge of a hostile gang yesterday. It was me vs 20+ dudes. They were fit to do a particular job, so was i. I ddnt care if they had links. What was important was what my links were doing for me. Them havng links does not automaticaly cancel out mine if we are using them differently. |
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Kaivar Lancer
Placid Peace Corps
623
|
Posted - 2015.07.01 17:27:21 -
[91] - Quote
Today I bagged my first Svipul with a T1 destroyer. I'm pretty happy. :D |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
29
|
Posted - 2015.07.10 11:18:21 -
[92] - Quote
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:Mira Chieve wrote:Why bring neuts to your gang, right ?
The ship is not OP, only the enemies are incompetent. Of course, blingy active tanks rep for a LOT, but bring them under neut pressure and they are done for.
A single sentinel with a TD would crap all over that svipul. Or an arbitrator with full rack o-¦ neuts. But people prefer to fit Missile Launchers into utility highs -.- wrong and wrong. a svipul would rip the sentinel in about 3 seconds, cause small capless guns dont give a crap about TD or neuts, and a svipul would easily have enough cap to burn into range. and from personal experience, a svipul can pretty much ignore neuts anyways. I lost several pilgrims to solo svipuls, and they werent even pimped or linked. You know what happens? they shoot down the drones, then proceed to murder the pilgrim with capless guns. And same thing with a deimos, even under web and scram they can easily tank a full blaster fit deimos because small sig. 1 v 1 svipul is king of the hill, linked or unlinked. And king of the hill not by a small margin, but by FAR. Just look at recent pvp stats (zkillboard): Svipul 11,294 Sabre 9,131 Caracal 5,195 Stiletto 5,186 Confessor 5,033 Proteus 4,624 Loki 4,616 Malediction 4,560 Jackdaw 4,509 Ishtar 4,470 everything else is in 4-5k range, svipul FAR outpaces everything else. Checking svipuls effectiveness - 91% survival rate. 91% 9 out 10 times you go against a svipul, you die. This sound like a normal ship to you? I use svipuls as well, for this exact reason - unkillable. But its broken. Broken as hell.
Then don't fly it and quit whining, case closed! If the ship is really that OP to you then you should switch to an Orthrus.
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Skelee VI
Wraithguard.
52
|
Posted - 2015.07.13 20:39:35 -
[93] - Quote
I got my ass kicked by svipul in my cynabal. It was close fight but i was very surprised. Maybe they just need a slight nerf. Bigger sig maybe when in certain modes. My cynabal can hit hit frigs and dessies well but not the svipul |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
868
|
Posted - 2015.07.14 08:49:07 -
[94] - Quote
Skelee VI wrote:I got my ass kicked by svipul in my cynabal. It was close fight but i was very surprised. Maybe they just need a slight nerf. Bigger sig maybe when in certain modes. My cynabal can hit hit frigs and dessies well but not the svipul Did you ask RostFire for his fit? Probably 10mn afterburner, active tank with cap boosters like the type Zappity is flying.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
2065
|
Posted - 2015.07.15 09:53:25 -
[95] - Quote
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:TL:DR - svipul in video easily tanks 2 RML caracals + other ****, proceeds to murder a gang of 5 by himself easily. This is bullcrap. http://evenews24.com/2015/06/14/video-svipul-massacre/ I dont care what people say, a destroyer should NOT be able to tank a RLM cruiser, much less 2 cruisers + drones unloading clips into you. In my own experience, a similar fitted svipul can easily murder a deimos, a pilgrim, can easily tank an orthrus, and generally maneuver like a boss with his 10mn afterburner. obviously i have a svipul myself; but this is bullcrap, how do you even fight something like this 1 v 1 in a simular weight class? The ship is ridiculously, retarderdly overpowered. With links, its radius is something like 25m, thats virtually immune to damage; even drones miss.
WEB, WEB put damage. No you will NOT do much damage to a non webbed ABurning minmatar ship, that is their whole concept. And they NEED to get very inside web range to do any damage to you, so you have not many excused.
In a gang of 5, if you do not have 4 webs to stop him, its not a problem with the sivpul. IF it was a ship that coudl do that while staying OUTSIDE web range, then we might have a problem. But any Fast ship that has range under 10km is not really a problem that serious
"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
2065
|
Posted - 2015.07.15 09:54:30 -
[96] - Quote
Skelee VI wrote:I got my ass kicked by svipul in my cynabal. It was close fight but i was very surprised. Maybe they just need a slight nerf. Bigger sig maybe when in certain modes. My cynabal can hit hit frigs and dessies well but not the svipul
It is not the sivpul. It is just people using ABurners instead of MWD. Check if your cyna can track a dramiel with a deadspace AB orbiting you at 1km... no it cannot, not even close.
"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
2065
|
Posted - 2015.07.15 10:02:26 -
[97] - Quote
Barrogh Habalu wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Take the boosts away an you will just never have a scenareo where one dude is willing go on grid vs many because the solo, micro and small gangs will become more of a numbers game. Sorry for going back to this piece of offtopic, but I always failed to grasp the concept of "force multipliers, being more effective when applied to multiple recipients, keeping solos / small groups competitive".
Want a very simple example? ECM. It is near useless in blobs, because to be effective you need to spread it evenly among the enemies or have a very wise independent decision on what to jam or not. That is doable in small scale combat when the players know what they are doing. In a 1k vs 1k fight no way in hell you can expect to have ECM be an effective tool.
Same thing with mobility. A smaller group where peopel fight more independently and less under the direct control of a FC can make better use of their individual mobility to mitigate dps. If your huge fleet is flying around an anchor you will NOT be using much of your mobility.
"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
2065
|
Posted - 2015.07.15 10:05:26 -
[98] - Quote
Doctor Knuckles wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Take the boosts away an you will just never have a scenareo where one dude is willing go on grid vs many because the solo, micro and small gangs will become more of a numbers game.
Bullshit. The fact you're too risk adverse to do it does not mean we all are. I go full unlinked solo leeroy in my slicer against gangs all the time, on gates, out of plexes, sliding into occupied plexes, i don't give a single ****. And i don't mean it as an offense, i just get a thrill out of risky against the odds situations, as i would say a lot of people that go solo do.
sure easy to play leeroy with a slicer. But how about in a 3 bil isk T3? THere is a difference between being risk averse and just not being stupid.
"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
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Hadrian Blackstone
Yamato Holdings
140
|
Posted - 2015.07.18 02:53:02 -
[99] - Quote
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:I can't wait till the Hecate comes out. If people think the Svipul is OP, the Hecate is going to make everyone cry. Nope, hecate came out, and at its core its simular to an eris. Quick, high dps, but not very tanky at all, and massive sig bloom when moving. Balanced little destroyer, in other words. Your doing it wrong. Bonus to hull resists. Buffer hull tank that thing. It is nothing like the Eris. I don't know of an Eris that can get 700 dps. Gank is tank. Dude, i can easily push an eris to 1000 dps. 700 is normal for it. I run my eris'es with polarized weaponry actually for that 1000, because gank is tank, youre right, but an eris with void and blasters pushes out 650 non-heat (3 mag stabs of course).
Lol this line of argument...jeez. Just because you can make an Eris have 700 DPS doesn't mean it's any good at applying that DPS. A proper fit Hecate would ruin some silly gank Eris.
BTW engaged a Svipul in my Enyo two weeks ago. I lost, but I had him in structure, and he landed at zero which helped me. Yeah it's a tough ship but my Hecate would also take the Enyo to its limits - it's supposed to be better. |
Switch Savage
The Tuskers The Tuskers Co.
157
|
Posted - 2015.07.28 10:48:14 -
[100] - Quote
Svipul is hilariously strong even after the nerf. Unlike the Hecate it has virtually no draw backs when fit correctly and if you use crystals/pill you can straight up tank/kill its direct counters. There is almost nothing i fear when roaming in them outside of ecm and energy neutralisers.
That said I do not see an issue with the way the meta has shifted in FW. The only change i see necessary is to prevent T3Ds from entering small plexes. This allows regular destroyers and T2 frigates some room to breathe and the T3Ds can bait fights outside plexes or inside mediums if they so wish.
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
2071
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 10:18:01 -
[101] - Quote
Switch Savage wrote:Svipul is hilariously strong even after the nerf. Unlike the Hecate it has virtually no draw backs when fit correctly and if you use crystals/pill you can straight up tank/kill its direct counters. There is almost nothing i fear when roaming in them outside of ecm and energy neutralisers.
That said I do not see an issue with the way the meta has shifted in FW. The only change i see necessary is to prevent T3Ds from entering small plexes. This allows regular destroyers and T2 frigates some room to breathe and the T3Ds can bait fights outside plexes or inside mediums if they so wish.
They should be excluded from environments where only frigates and t1 dessies can enter.
When dealign with cruisers there are plenty of things tha can easily murder them, as a vigilant, ashimmu.. etc...
"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1104
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 10:49:16 -
[102] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Switch Savage wrote:Svipul is hilariously strong even after the nerf. Unlike the Hecate it has virtually no draw backs when fit correctly and if you use crystals/pill you can straight up tank/kill its direct counters. There is almost nothing i fear when roaming in them outside of ecm and energy neutralisers.
That said I do not see an issue with the way the meta has shifted in FW. The only change i see necessary is to prevent T3Ds from entering small plexes. This allows regular destroyers and T2 frigates some room to breathe and the T3Ds can bait fights outside plexes or inside mediums if they so wish.
They should be excluded from environments where only frigates and t1 dessies can enter. When dealign with cruisers there are plenty of things tha can easily murder them, as a vigilant, ashimmu.. etc... I'm roaming low regularly and I don't see T3Ds sitting in small plexes more than other ships. Also you always can run if you don't want to take the fight. What's the problem you see with T3Ds in small plexes? A bunch of frigs can easily murder them - when roaming in a gang T3Ds are primary. Putting T3Ds in the cruiser plexes only would make them the bottom of the meta there. As stated before the pirate frigs in novice plexes are much more of a problem.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1267
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 18:41:49 -
[103] - Quote
I think t3d vs anything in small is a FAR bigger imbalance than pirate frigs in novices.
pirate frigs still have t1 resists and you can quite easily win vs them in a number of T1 fits
anything vs a T3d 1vs1 is usually heavily in favour of the t3d |
Switch Savage
The Tuskers The Tuskers Co.
166
|
Posted - 2015.07.30 14:35:56 -
[104] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:I think t3d vs anything in small is a FAR bigger imbalance than pirate frigs in novices.
pirate frigs still have t1 resists and you can quite easily win vs them in a number of T1 fits
anything vs a T3d 1vs1 is usually heavily in favour of the t3d
Agreed.
Also a T3D in a medium plex is far from bottom of the meta. Even things like dual web T1 cruisers that can actually hit the T3D still struggle. Full neut Vexors are pretty solid vs most active T3D fits but really there is not much else T1 cruiser wise that can stand to one well fit/flown.
Hell i would have no issues engaging most HACs in my Svipul. Whilst i could not break most of the active tanked ones I could pin it until i get bored or he runs out of cap/ancil charges. |
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