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Band of Bloggers #42, Tuxford's This and That

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 9 post(s)
Barrick Stormsworn Minmatar CAD Inc. Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2006.11.23 00:37:00 - [91] Originally by: La Tortura Now Abaddon has the same alphastrike as Tempest and just a tiny bit less than Maelstrim. That's with more hp, more resistances, better tracking etc. Any reason left why we should use Minmatar BS's with arty then? With AC's abaddon has dps similar to AC pest. And again with overall better tank. Any reason left to use Minmatar BS's with AC's? Concerning arty, the issue is range. Was just looking at Amarr BSs for the first time in QF and I can't hit my 150km+ goal in an Amarr BS. Their damage is intense (provided you're not hitting an EM/Thermal tanked opponent >_> ) but their range can't compare. There's no way in hell an Abaddon with AC is going to compare to a Tempest with AC, sorry.
Barrick Stormsworn Minmatar CAD Inc. Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2006.11.23 00:43:00 - [92] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Godar Marak Originally by: PCX339 Amarr have had a few issues for a while but you gotta love their tanks. domi tank better. How does a grid limited ship with less cap and less lowslots than, say, a Geddon, tank better? duh. Their weapons don't use the cap you need for tanking :-P All things being equal, Domi can tank way better than an Armageddon unless the geddon fits projectiles.
Da Ram	Posted - 2006.11.23 00:58:00 - [93] Please give us some more tactical indicators on the HUD or GUI. I d like to know when I m scrambled beyond hope of warping off in that fight I can now take a breather in. For a bonus- give me a skill or module to determine who it is who scrambles me as well ;] Thanks, Ram
Cerui Tarshiel Minmatar Equilibrium Inc.	Posted - 2006.11.23 01:18:00 - [94] I have to agree with several other people in this thread that this devblog has allieviated several of my concerns with Revelations. I would indeed be very happy if the drake got it's rof bonus back, always expected some kind of nerf to it and if that has to be a launcher slot and pg reduction that's fine by me. As for the hurricane, I would've preferred it as it was but as minnie ships are already skill intensive I think it's gank be pulled back to prenerf levels without too much trouble. As for the changes to the hp boost I'm quite quite happy seeing as destroyers are finally going to get some degree of survivability
Shin Ra BURN EDEN	Posted - 2006.11.23 01:20:00 - [95] I'm afraid now that hitpoints have increased, but dmg has increased by more than 25% with the addition of rigs. Once again, having cake and eating it.
Crux Australis Reikoku	Posted - 2006.11.23 01:48:00 - [96] Originally by: Pesadel0 Basically the galente whined the myrmydon got their boost,the caldari whined got the boost to their drake,minmatar whined and they were told to learn to play. Why am not surprised. Winner!!! (and stolen for signature purposes :P ) Originally by: Pesadel0 Basically the galente whined the myrmydon got their boost,the caldari whined got the boost to their drake,minmatar whined and they were told to learn to play.
Phoenix Lonestar Litanies of Hate	Posted - 2006.11.23 02:00:00 - [97] Something about the HP boost not only irks me... but scares me as well. I can't yet articulate what it is that I know is inherently wrong, but maybe when Kali 1 (I refuse to call it Revelations, since it was Kali for frakkin' 2 years until 1 month ago it became "Revelations") comes out I'll be shown the error of my ways. Something about being able to tank longer (cap boost increase + HP boost), and not having a smaller increase in damage put out irks me. The HP boost pretty much eliminates small ships from the fleet repetoir, or so it seems. If a fight lasts 50% longer, does that mean I have to bring 50% more missiles/torps/lg charges, and thus fill my cargo bay entirely? And what is this nonsense I hear about nerfing javelin torps and creating heavy assault missiles? Aren't T2 heavies the HAMs? Nothing should be ubarr powerful without having its tradeoffs.
Mack Dorgeans Camelot Innovations	Posted - 2006.11.23 02:02:00 - [98] I'm all for giving back the Drake's ROF bonus instead of kinetic damage. For PvP, having a combat ship that has to ignore half of its bonuses to be effective (which is what Tux suggests) is just a bad idea. Losing a launcher AND the ROF bonus together is a bit much of a hit to its offense. If it needs some other balancing to keep the ROF bonus, then that should be considered.
Idara Caldari Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.23 02:05:00 - [99] Originally by: Phoenix Lonestar Something about the HP boost not only irks me... but scares me as well. I can't yet articulate what it is that I know is inherently wrong, but maybe when Kali 1 (I refuse to call it Revelations, since it was Kali for frakkin' 2 years until 1 month ago it became "Revelations") comes out I'll be shown the error of my ways. Something about being able to tank longer (cap boost increase + HP boost), and not having a smaller increase in damage put out irks me. The HP boost pretty much eliminates small ships from the fleet repetoir, or so it seems. If a fight lasts 50% longer, does that mean I have to bring 50% more missiles/torps/lg charges, and thus fill my cargo bay entirely? And what is this nonsense I hear about nerfing javelin torps and creating heavy assault missiles? Aren't T2 heavies the HAMs? Nothing should be ubarr powerful without having its tradeoffs. You can't tank better. You can only tank the same rep/amount per cycle as before, you just have a larger HP buffer. I did a couple really nice BS 1 vs 1s on Sisi after finally getting on, and it wasn't horridly long or anything (except fighting a Raven), and it gave more time to do stuff. Dunno if it's the best idea EVAR, but it seems to work. --- Go! Go! Go pointless Tier 3s! NERF PAPER!
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.11.23 02:06:00 - [100] Quote: The Hurricane is a great ship, one of my favorites actually. If you're having problem making it work, ask someone who is using it effectively how they have it set up. Do not condescend the Team Minmatar. Make no mistake the Hurricane is a great ship. Hell its still broken as far as WE are concerened. You did nothing but utterly destroy the flavor of the ship while retaining it to obsolete the Cyclone because they do the same role. You did not fix the problem and you know it. It's damage output is still similar it will just take the worthy to train up assault missiles 5. On your other changes, they seem ok. The Abaddon is still not a healthy ship. Again, don't condescend the users. These are not ships for the people who already have capital skills to make work. If you learned anything from the crap bonus effeciency that was 'the typhoon' pre-rof bonus it would be if you give a ship a role and bonus to go with it... you shouldn't have to optimize the ship by forgoing its bonuses to do so. Sorry tux but the Maelstrom, Abaddon, Drake and Hurricane need your love. Not your short fixes to get Revelations out the door. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats

Nifel Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.23 02:07:00 - [101] Mmmm... probably not gonna be answered but. You didn't speak anything about the Maelstrom and the Hyperion. There's been quite a bit of 'heated discussion' about those ships. Is the reason they're not being changed due to the mentioned changes to fleet combat to lessen the gank aspect of it? Or is there something else that means the Maelstrom gets to keep its not so favoured shield boost bonus? Oh and... currently 3x sb2 on a hyperion = fleet ship. Not what you had in mind I hope? "When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: (MIN14) Sama
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.11.23 02:27:00 - [102] Originally by: Shin Ra I'm afraid now that hitpoints have increased, but dmg has increased by more than 25% with the addition of rigs. Once again, having cake and eating it. you do know that rigs are stacking penalized with modules? Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
murder one Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.23 02:40:00 - [103] Originally by: Shin Ra I'm afraid now that hitpoints have increased, but dmg has increased by more than 25% with the addition of rigs. Once again, having cake and eating it. Are you kidding? You can't get any more DPS out of the setups with the new rigs than you can with the existing setups on TQ. The only real difference is that you can have a little more grid for a slight upgrade to a module here or there. Using damage rigs actually reduces your DPS when compared to using damage mods as it's either a ROF or Damage bonus, and not both together, and the rigs stack with damage mods, thereby negating any possible benefit of using them all together. Because I said so...
Draycar Hazaran	Posted - 2006.11.23 02:45:00 - [104] Quote: The Hurricane is a great ship, one of my favorites actually. If you're having problem making it work, ask someone who is using it effectively how they have it set up. Boo! Hiss! I can set it up quite effectively, if not moreso than before. As Kaylana said, you've completely killed the flavor of the thing. It's just like cafeteria lunch now...
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2006.11.23 02:49:00 - [105] Stay true to the desighn philosophy tuxford. Desroyers can't tank, greater hp just delays the inevitable. if it something bigger than it decides it needs to die, all this eans is that it dies in a full volley, instead of half the guns going off. Destroyers are meant to gank frigates. Remove there rof penalty, and don't bother with a hp increase.... Play to there streanghs, which is massive short term gankage against small targets, don't try to patch up there weakneses.
DrEiak Amarr IONSTAR	Posted - 2006.11.23 03:15:00 - [106] I have played eve for over 3 years and have never had a complaint until the last 3 patches (not including kali) In each patch amarr have become less and less useful. I was hoping that with kali this would get looked at, but it seems to be the general consensus of CCP that there is absolutly nothing wrong with amarr. WELL the PROBLEM is that amarr are obsolete, there is not a single aspect of this game that we accel at besides macro mining, which CCP does not support. THE RESUME OF AN AMARRIAN SHIP: THE BEST: armor, powergrid. THE MEDIOCRETY: 2nd best sig radius, 2nd worse drones, 2nd worse tank, 2nd worse speed, THE WORST: DPS, CPU, Hardest Fittings (cruiser mods fit very tight/not at all), EW, Sensor Str, turret falloff (which is worth more then optimal due the impact of high damage ammo not affecting falloff (tech 1)), Capacitor usage, suseptibility to NOS/Neut. Amarr sucks. Our ships are the worst out there, do something about it. Feel free to make amarr do something well for a change!
Mordrake MetaForge	Posted - 2006.11.23 03:25:00 - [107] I seriously hope Santa puts a not so nurfed Drake in my stocking... because as a Noob going from fitting a Kessie with a full raft of Medium Missile launcehers to the next day only being able to fit Rocket Launcers on it Santa has consistently given me jumps of Coal. "Arte et Marte"
Phoenix Lonestar Litanies of Hate	Posted - 2006.11.23 03:45:00 - [108] Okay... just checked out the javelin torps on Kali 1. So decrease the damage by 20%, increase the explosion radius by 33%, and increase the HP on everything 25-30%.... so the net impact on the torps means they're roughly 50-60% less effective than they were. It seems like every time people *** about T2 ammo being too ubarr, it gets a nerf that makes it not worth buying anymore. Isn't that the point of training up for a MONTH to be able to use T2 launchers and ammo, it's supposed to be great? And decreasing the damage wasn't enough? It had to be an increase of explosion radius too? CCP likes to use SOE's method of balance changes. If something is too powerful, nerf the out of it on multiple different levels, thus rendering it useless, instead of one change at a time to see what really works. I'm ***ing and I don't even USE T2 torps.
ElDiabloRojo Caldari Colossus Industries	Posted - 2006.11.23 03:58:00 - [109] ok sounds good and looks to make sense... one think i will ask tho is that if your ramping up the Hit points of capital ships... what are you doing to the hit points of POStarbases and POStations?
Eldwinn Royal Hiigaran Navy Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.23 04:03:00 - [110] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Soyemia ...nerfing hurricane was not a good idea! It did one thing well, AC's, but now its semi crappy hybrid like cyclone, and myrmidon is going to be horribly overpowered, with damage output of BS, its gonna pwn all other BC's and prolly some BS's. Welcome to play caldari and gallente online, I just started training for gallente. Sure play gallente and caldari if you like, just don't be upset when I waste your ass in a hurricane. Haha.

Corey Grim FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.23 04:26:00 - [111] I have 1 point that i humbly ask ppl (and ofc Tux) to consider: 1. Alpha strike. The "real" reason for tempests (and in near future maelstorms) Alpha strike lies in RP side of eve, minmatar has allways been the "hit and run" race when we speak "pure" matar designed ships there is Clear line of 3 kind of ships that matar has: -Alpha ships (wolf, rupture, muninn, tempest) aka warp in, shoot one target with 1-3 volleys, warp out. -Speed ships: (claw, jaguar, stabber, vagabond) warp in, stick some holes to enemy until u cant take dmg anymore, run like hell, warp away. -Hybrid ships: personally i imagine that these ships have been born by matar spying every other race and implementing some parts to their own desings (Bellicose, Cyclone, Typhoon) basicly these ships are most versatile ships in eve and also most skill intensive. Ok now we ask how this is going to affect minmatar race ships: well basicly more time in battle is bad for matar ships coz the whole point is usually not to hang around forever, Matar also have more HP¦s of course but that alone doesnt solve matars problems especially in alpha strike part (remember u will be warping in @ range and hoping to kill the enemy before it gets too close). in speed part it gives ur enemy more time to get more webbers on your nice fast ship, ok this i can handle and accept for the sake of "longer=funnier battles". back to the conserns of alpha: lets take example as previously mentioned the new amarr BS will have higher or close to same alpha strike as tempest, the new matar BS will only have slightly higher alpha than the amarr one. I ask you: where does this leave Tempest? whats it "role" as i have noticed every ship in eve have one but i cant see tempest fitting in any category where u would be better of flying something else. ofc maybe im just blind and cant think role for tempest. it will not be "useless" ship in any case but its balance compared against any other tier 2 or tier 3 BS is bit off, this is the result of tier 3 battleships and HP boost. Ofc you ask me how to fix it then ? i believe im not capable of answering that question but i can give u my thoughts what could be done: the real problem lies in maelstorm and how its "roled" coz atm its clearly roled for npc... uhm excuse me.. both meaning its trying to be AC boat and arty boat at same time, well i believe that tempest is nice Arty platform and not so nice Ac platform. so my conclusion is maelstorm should be nice AC boat, but sadly its 1 too slow 2 too heavy 3 missing the essential bonuses to make good AC boat (read comparable to blastermega and btw now everyone must remember we are speaking tier 3 bs vs tier 2 before the whining starts) decrease its PG so that it will be pain in the ass to try fit 8x1400mm t2¦s ofc this should be doable with 2x rcu t2 and AWU lvl 5 coz ppl who have spended time to fit maelstorm to alpha should get their goodie at the end (wich is long way). and forgot the shield boost bonus give it falloff bonus instead (so it would be rof and falloff) decrease the locking range a bit, make it lighter and fastest BS with mwd there is. This would prevent many ppl using it with 1400mm¦s and choose AC¦s instead, the resolution between ACpest and Artypest (artypest is better ofc) and the resolution between Artymael and ACmael would be close to the same (ACmael would be better here ofc) My latest Video: Hysteria
Karandor	Posted - 2006.11.23 04:27:00 - [112] Hurricane is still awesome. If you complain about a big brother to the rupture you're crazy.
Corey Grim FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.23 04:27:00 - [113] Edited by: Corey Grim on 23/11/2006 04:36:02 Okay so i still didnt answer the orginal question about Alpha i will answer it now: lets assume that (im sry im not gonna count skills and all that im goin to easy way) 1400mm ROF in tempest pre-revelations would be 10 seconds, what if we changed that ROF to 15 seconds instead and gave it 33.33% increase of damage? it would still be same DPS but increased Alpha, the fear of instapopping battleships in Fleetfights what seems to consern CCP/Tux would also be suprisingly slightly reduced coz of so low ROF in tempest. The alpha would still be lower in tempest than pre-revelations coz of the hp boost and hit and runs would be doable. Considering/doing these Changes would give matar what they are after: not overpowered ships but ships that are roled towards one of the main 3 groups that matar ships are usually roled. My latest Video: Hysteria
Corey Grim FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.23 04:32:00 - [114] Edited by: Corey Grim on 23/11/2006 04:33:33 ---- strange douple post --- My latest Video: Hysteria
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.11.23 05:00:00 - [115] Originally by: Karandor Hurricane is still awesome. If you complain about a big brother to the rupture you're crazy. The reason it got nerfed was because if its tank and ability to gank. Well... we are 1 turret short and 50 pg lower and we still can gank and tank. But what we cannot do is put 7 turrets on our ship to make it the 720mm II platform the bonuses make it. Now its going to be the 'better' autocannon ship as opposed to a arty and it STILL can tank more than it should. The problem with the Drake and the Hurricane stemmed from oversized plates/extenders which have a unchecked, unbalanced goahead nod to cruisers and battlecruisers. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
F'nog Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.23 05:08:00 - [116] I feel I should point out that mince meat is not ground beef. I has no place in a good burger. Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when backdoor bandit is in local.
Mack Dorgeans Camelot Innovations	Posted - 2006.11.23 06:06:00 - [117] Hey, while we're talking about increasing battle times and such, are the ammo sizes or cargo bays going to be increased so people can carry enough sticks and stones to throw at each other? I would prefer lowering ammo sizes, so that guns and launchers can also hold more -- that way their DPS isn't nerfed quite as much due to reloading (and the weapons that don't need reloading or have the largest capacity don't become uber). By the way, what's the deal with the Drake having the same cargo bay size as a Ferox (and less than even a Caracal)? Isn't the established trend that missile ships get more cargo? Whether that's a good or bad trend is another debate altogether, of course.
La Tortura Infinite Style Incorporated Chorus of Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.23 06:53:00 - [118] Originally by: Barrick Stormsworn Concerning arty, the issue is range. Was just looking at Amarr BSs for the first time in QF and I can't hit my 150km+ goal in an Amarr BS. Their damage is intense (provided you're not hitting an EM/Thermal tanked opponent >_> ) but their range can't compare. Are you sure? Have you compared them with new T2 ammo? Quote: There's no way in hell an Abaddon with AC is going to compare to a Tempest with AC, sorry. 800mm's+3xGyro T2. -- ignorance is bliss
Hawk Fireblade	Posted - 2006.11.23 07:49:00 - [119] Edited by: Hawk Fireblade on 23/11/2006 07:55:05 Edited by: Hawk Fireblade on 23/11/2006 07:51:55 Tuxford it's utterly pointless fudging the combat system like this, while the ideas are worthwhile, they only become worthwhile IF your prepared to do a proper job and change the actual method of how ships move and their control, to make these changes work. www.darkspace.net if you want to see a excellent example of strong space combat. The changes needed and required are far more radical if this games to have a future. Eve's combat has always been very lacking, in the early days this was negated alot because of the smaller playerbase, where you could actually have tactics and fun fights instead now all we have is lag blob fests, and it's really ticking the players off bigtime, you've already lost many many customers because of the lack of proper developement, and this needs to change. Don't fudge it Fix it! And when I say IT, I mean the design, don't bend a bad design scrap it and make a proper one that does the job correctly, and yes it's alotta work and pain, but longterm it's the best option. Eve needs to stop being the Jack of all that does none very well, especially in core elements like combat as this game revolves around ships it needs to be it's strongest part not its weakest. The other thing I would sugest is spooling off inactive accounts off the main database and storing them elsewhere, reinjecting them at a DT once that person resubscribes, to try aid the database some. I don't know how much of a % of the database is just dead stuff but I suspect there's a big chunk there that doesn't need to be.

Tuxford	Posted - 2006.11.23 08:25:00 - [120] I'm gonna answer Hakera's question as I think they are too the point and something I should have addressed in the blog. Originally by: Hakera 1) Tackling modules - webs, scramblers, even with the capacitor increases, do you think that these should be tweaked, or even overhauled to class specific modules? I don't know if you have remember it but there was a grand plan on changing the propulsion system with the ECM system. I for one don't believe that any sort of randomness is appropriate in the system. I know people here have always wanted to change it somehow but tbh its such an important system in combat that we're wary of touching it. Originally by: Hakera 2) Will the aggression timers be changed? (the one minute non aggro disappear and the 20min aggro disappear) This is something we've been talking about. I don't think its unlikely that we will change it but I doubt it will happen in Kali 1 Originally by: Hakera 3) NPCs, will their damage increase in proportion to the HP changes? As it stands, npc damage must increase by approximatly 15-25% inline with this change or you make ratting of all types too easy as the HP change is a PvP change rather than a PvE one Increasing the damage they do by 15-20% changes things in a way that hitpoints does not. It means a setup that could previously tank npc's may no longer be able to do so. I'd like npcs to be made more challanging, but simply boosting The "right" way to do it would be to increase their hitpoints but I'm afraid that would just make you generate less isk/hour and make it more boring. Originally by: Hakera 4) Sentry/Concord/Faction police damage - boosted inline with HP changes? No we haven't done that. Sentries aren't really that hard to tank and Concord will still take you down, just takes a bit longer. Quote: 5) Any thoughts on destroyer sig radius (especially with mwd on) ? Its really not something we've taken too close a look at. It was on the todo list but you know, we had to do other stuff. I'll say this though, destroyers are not supposed to be bigger than frigates. Maybe double the sigrad is a bit too much though, we'll take a look at it after the patch. Originally by: Hakera 6) Survey/Salvage specialised ship classes? - Kali 2? You can fit a salvager module on any ship afaik. We haven't really nailed down a design for one but I don't think its unlikely that we'll make one. No promises though Originally by: Hakera 7) faction class ships - more on the horizon for all the extra ship classes we have now since castor? Would sure be dandy for FW looming Yeah more faction ships for everyone. Well not everyone but definitly more faction ships with factional warfare coming in. Originally by: Hakera 8) POS damage - increase inline or other defence options becoming availible? No POS damage increase now. As for changing POS defenses there is a great plan for that. Starbases will get a lot more attention post Kali 1. I didn't mention the Hyperion because I think its fine. So does any other blaster pilot within CCP, well any other blaster pilot I know of. _______________




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