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SandKid
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
186
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Posted - 2015.06.15 23:17:48 -
[1] - Quote
Have you ever seen a Navy Osprey? I sure as heck haven't. And why would you fly one anyways? There's the Navy Caracal.
Pretty simple thread: the 'logi' navy cruisers are pointless and could be something much better suited to serving faction warfare. At the end of the day. navy vessels are intended first and foremost to serve the needs of FW pilots because they actually build the LP at a high enough rate (coupled with cost bonuses) to warrant flying them in the first place. The one exception are Gallente Navy Cruisers - they use different weapon sets and are thus actually different vessels.
Navy frigates are a common sight as a result of this (which is great!) and even Navy BCs see decent use. The dual Navy Cruisers is just pointless.
I don't think more logistic ships are needed, so I don't propose creating 'navy' logi platforms (even though that is their hull). What would you have them as F&I?
Option A: Navy E-War Platforms - Higher EHP than Tech I ewar cruiser, better fitting, but still only one set of bonuses making them inferior to Tech II by a wide margin still.
Option B: Navy Ship that uses alternative weapon system for the race.
-Amarr: Missile or Drone Augoror (probably drone, missiles are for t2 variants)
-Caldari: Railgun Osprey
-Gallente: They already have this right! The one race that makes sense.
-Minmatar: Missile Scythe (drop the old-school dual traits and give it a missile-dedicated set)
Option C: Navy Transport Ships
-The lore behind these ships' tech I variants implies they were combat transports
-Change ships to have rather large cargo-holds (5,000m3) and defensive bonuses. The cargo size could only be increased with mods/rigs, preventing it from making industrials (even tech I) obsolete...not to mention navy cruisers still cost a lot more than them.
-Perhaps a frigate sized ship maintenance array? (Two frigates max) Really intended as a useful addition to a roaming or plexing fleet.
...I actually like this a lot, as it would allow reshipping in FW to go much more quickly on the run when you lose a few ships or need to adjust tactics on the fly. Targeting these ships would also be a potential priority for shiny loot.
So what do YOU think? Like I said, I really like the idea of Option C but Option B would be easier to implement as one of the four races (gallente) already follows this concept and Minmatar is 'kinda' there. |
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
955
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Posted - 2015.06.15 23:25:06 -
[2] - Quote
I would very much appreciate it if both of a race's weapons systems were represented in the navy ships.
This could go for other sizes as well, though.
Change the battleships to have one ship for each of a race's weapon system and having two faction frigates and two navy BCs (and two navy destroyers) would also be nice.
Option A is interesting, but I think more faction hulls would be needed in general before it would make sense to look into adding specialist roles, and C doesn't really seem like it would have much of a use, even if it could be useful to have an industrial with a ship maintenance bay. |
SandKid
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
186
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Posted - 2015.06.15 23:32:22 -
[3] - Quote
Xindi Kraid wrote:I would very much appreciate it if both of a race's weapons systems were represented in the navy ships.
This could go for other sizes as well, though.
Change the battleships to have one ship for each of a race's weapon system and having two faction frigates and two navy BCs (and two navy destroyers) would also be nice.
Option A is interesting, but I think more faction hulls would be needed in general before it would make sense to look into adding specialist roles, and C doesn't really seem like it would have much of a use, even if it could be useful to have an industrial with a ship maintenance bay.
More faction ships would be cooler, but I doubt CCP will go for it. You're running the risk of creating a new kind of "Tiered" ships. I write these ideas with FW in mind, but remember that many players outside it use these ships also.
I can't say I'd increase the number of Navy Ships either - Tech I has the variety needed already and if you really want the improved increase, investing in T2 is already an option for more specialization. In their original intent, the navy ships are to be iconic and slightly more powerful than T1 for only a slight price increase.
On the topic of iconic, I do wish all navy ships were their own models like the frigates...but that's neither here nor there.
The navy ships should not be problematic like the original 'tiericide' designs, which they are dangerously close to as is. Really, they should be incentivized towards FW pilots - either through price point (more bang for your buck thanks to LP income) or they need to be specialized towards assisting FW directly (which runs the risk of rendering them useless outside FW). |
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
788
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Posted - 2015.06.15 23:34:05 -
[4] - Quote
No.
The navy Osprey is a terribad ship, but thats a question of balancing.
The other navy faction logi cruisers are used quite often and are fairly balanced.
RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE
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SandKid
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
186
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Posted - 2015.06.15 23:40:05 -
[5] - Quote
Baali Tekitsu wrote:No.
The navy Osprey is a terribad ship, but thats a question of balancing.
The other navy faction logi cruisers are used quite often and are fairly balanced.
So option B basically...that's balancing them as they are.
Gallente is set, Minmatar ought to be tweaked in my personal opinion - but it works as you say.
Amarr could benefit from more variety, same as osprey problem.
Like I said, looking for opinions - not pushing any one idea. So what I took away (for sure on your post) is the Osprey definitely needs a look at. |
Fourteen Maken
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology
Enemy Spotted.
167
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Posted - 2015.06.16 00:22:28 -
[6] - Quote
Caldari have poor options for navy ships all round, every one of them in missiles, rarely seen outside highsec and it shows in the LP market. The Navy Caracal and Osprey are the least used faction cruisers in pvp, if anything I'd say the Nosprey is the better of the two because it works better with rapid lights.
I don't understand why we don't have navy rail ships like a navy rokh and a navy moa? |
Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
236
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Posted - 2015.06.16 01:53:48 -
[7] - Quote
The amarr's ones both doing well. |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
318
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Posted - 2015.06.16 02:14:01 -
[8] - Quote
Most navy ships are in a good spot. Couple of them need some minor tweaking. Focusing mainly on the T1 logistic's variations here.
Scythe FI is quite a neat little ship under the surface. Its good in both weapon platforms its bonused for. Its a fast, skirmisher that it is well bonused for RLML (dmg bonus > rof bonus). Mini orthrus pretty much. Or it can fit an XLASB w/ dual prop and 180's and do close to 500dps and have a sig the size of a destroyer (even smaller with x-instinct booster). Can't really think of anything wrong with it (other than i can't fit 4 720's on it for super sexy reload speed  )
Augoror Navy: One of the few cruisers outside t3 that can get BS levels of tank. Over 100k with 2 t2 1600 plates. Coupled with the sig of a cruiser, and its a baby t3, just with really horrible dps in that configuration. Its also not that slow as long as you're not slapping plates on it, and kite fits do exist. But tbh, i think it excels at being the tackle ship that is like a turd that won't flush.
Exequror Navy: Kind of an oddball ship, people like to put blasters on it which can work for melting things. As this has pretty high dps for a navy cruiser. Cap is pretty bad though, so its susceptible to neuting (RoF bonus doesn't help the cap issue). It can make a decent kiter though, and is fast/agile enough to do it with the right fit. I'd say a cap buff is pretty much all it needs, maybe a smidge more CPU.
Osprey Navy: Its like a scyfi when using scourge, but can get a substantial shield tank, or use dual webs, or EWAR. It is semi-versitile. At the same time, it feels pretty luckluster too. Its never going to match the scyfi in terms of being able to be bonused to all missile types. It also has pretty terrible cap and sig isn't as good. I think giving it a 5th launcher would offset only have a 5% bonus to non-kinetic missiles, and boost kinetic missile dps enough to actually make ita threat against non-t2 gallente ships. This also follows the theme of no utility high's on caldari ships, but you get an extra turret. Slight cap buff would be nice as well.
On the other hand, a rail focused Nosprey could be interesting as well.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role
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Specia1 K
State War Academy
Caldari State
88
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Posted - 2015.06.16 03:20:01 -
[9] - Quote
Caldari has Navy cruisers?
(sarcasm ) |
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
The Periphery
840
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Posted - 2015.06.16 07:43:51 -
[10] - Quote
With the possible exception of the Navy Osprey leave them alone, I've flown them a lot and not only do they work but they work well.
NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
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Valkin Mordirc
1114
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Posted - 2015.06.16 09:31:13 -
[11] - Quote
Out of the Navy Cruiser's the ones that need the most help are the Caldari. I think the rest have a pretty good place.
The Navy Aug gets stupid levels of tank,
The Nomen is a wonderful ship.
The Nexeq is both a good rail platform and a good blaster platform. It's fast, and gets a decent tank.
The VNI is very nearly OP,
The Stabber Fleet is a good armor kiter
And the SFI is a bit of an odd ball but its a really good tackler.
But I have nothing nice to say about the Navy Osprey or the Navy Caracle. The Navy Osprey is fast still can't match other ships. And the Navy Cara is...well just very very meh.
#DeleteTheWeak
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afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
1412
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Posted - 2015.06.16 11:23:50 -
[12] - Quote
Samillian wrote:With the possible exception of the Navy Osprey leave them alone, I've flown them a lot and not only do they work but they work well.
Navy caracal is a bag of spanners and you know it 
Maybe if she had more cpu ..... |
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