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Deimos Regal
Time Cube Syndicate
Daikoku Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.23 12:39:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Deimos Regal on 23/11/2006 12:39:41
Edited by: Deimos Regal on 23/11/2006 12:39:26
Greetings,
I would like to share some thoughts about the market.
At the moment, "everything" in EVE eventually boils down to which player, corporation, or alliance has the most skill points in blowing things up. While this is entertaining and fun, it lacks true depth. Now imagine a player, corporation, or alliance that had zero, yes zero skill points in blowing stuff up. This corporation, in the current EVE world, is doomed.
I can't think of a (non-carebear) corporations that doesn't have some form of skill points in KABOOM! Be it either dedicated defense pilots, cross-training, or the ability to hire an entity with KABOOM skills. Because currently, there is no way around it.
Now what if the market had a few improvements? Say, for instance, that the market took standings into account when placing orders. Say that I have just been awarded the one and only super uber BPO in the whole EVE universe, or that I am the only producer of a certain type of ammunition in a region. My products, once offered on the market can be purchased by anyone. But for some reason, while traveling through a low-sec system, I get podded. Podded by the ammo that only I produce. In the current EVE, I would either have to take the loss, attempt to hunt down the person who killed me, or hire someone to kill them for me. But what if, when I lowered my standings towards that person, they could no longer purchase anything that I manufactured?
Aha, says I. Now I can use trade as a weapon. Granted, this is a large scale idea, with a small scale application. But just a simple improvement of the market, would have a vast impact on EVE. I think that a game that proclaims to have a player driven market should have just that, a player driven market, be it as a source of income, or a weapon of mass inconvience.
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Omber Zombie
Gallente
Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2006.11.23 13:34:00 -
[2]
The idea has been suggested a few times, and it is a good idea. I haven't tested out contracts properly yet, but is it possible to set a minimum standings level for a contract? That might be the solution.
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[FTEK] Pwning Eve Carebear Style |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2006.11.23 14:02:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Akita T on 23/11/2006 14:05:42
It's called "selling only directly to end-user and kicking everybody that resells your stuff in the arse". Or in other words "picking your customers".
Using the market as-is won't allow you to do that even if you set negative standings to reseller... why ? Because anybody could ask a friend (that hasn't been set to negative yet) or use an alt and purchase your stuff anyway.
In other words... wait for contracts in Kali. And stop using the market.
__
P.S. What WOULD be nice however, would be something else.
Having personal standings influence price BOTH ways: negative standing could be ignored or made to increase price (can be evaded as described above), but you can GIVE DISCOUNTS to those of positive standing.
Now, THAT would be useful.
_____
-sig-
This is my only char. These are my skills
Always question everything, including yourself |
Eiro
ISS Logistics
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.23 21:39:00 -
[4]
Build your own outpost and sell your stuff there - that way you can deny docking rights to whoever you want. They can still buy stuff off the market, but they can't actually dock to pick it up. ;) (Of course they could hire someone else to do so, but they could hire someone else to buy it in the first place too.)
It is an interesting idea, though, or even a sliding cost (rather than simple yes/no) based on standings.
Eiro
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Agrias Hellion
Diligentia Sodalitas
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Posted - 2006.11.24 07:31:00 -
[5]
Works well in another way, it would essential drive said people to use smaller corps to fulfill their needs. Giving more power to the little guy.
I like it.
Now if we could only get access to lab slots so we could research the stuff. 
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Laboratus
Gallente
BGG
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.24 09:19:00 -
[6]
You can make **** loads of isk by getting skills to fly a freighter and moving minerals and expensive items from one region to others for sale. And you can play the price game on the market.
Takes a couple of Billion isk to start though, but hey. It's life...
But in it self, min standing for a sale would be cool. Same with min sec rating.
___
P.S.
Post with your main.
Mind control and tin hats |
Alkirin
Gallente
Die Hard Mining
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Posted - 2006.11.24 16:51:00 -
[7]
Knowing who you buy from, and allowing standings to affect the market would finally give a weapon to those of us who don't PvP.
Boycotting would be an effective way to strike at the T2 hoarders that controll so much of the market; and an effective economic tool to be turned against anyone.
If you are at war with an alliance, there should be ways to avoid giving them money for the things you buy.
[Cogito Ergo Sum Atheios] - Alkirin of Scientia Obscura |
Spoon Thumb
Crystaline Green
Order of the Khanid Crown
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Posted - 2006.11.25 01:35:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Spoon Thumb on 25/11/2006 01:38:41
You're all looking at this from the wrong angle.
What eve needs is More Ways To Market Your Product. Atm it is a case of either being the cheapest or the closest or combination of both.
What we need is a system of truely creating unique items. Add in something simple like letting people advertise on the ticker at the bottom of billboards and you open up the markets to all sorts of fun and mayhem!
***
Spoon Thumb - I can scoop ice cream with my thumbs!
http://myeve. |
Alkirin
Gallente
Die Hard Mining
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Posted - 2006.11.25 02:06:00 -
[9]
Even with cool advertising...it's still going to run down to cheapest and closest.
The emphasis needs to be on controlling who you buy from, and who can buy what you market.
[Cogito Ergo Sum Atheios] - Alkirin of Scientia Obscura |
Alkirin
Gallente
Die Hard Mining
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Posted - 2006.11.26 16:13:00 -
[10]
Though, I'd also like the ability to view the markets of other regions without having to travel to them.
[Cogito Ergo Sum Atheios] - Alkirin of Scientia Obscura |
Spoon Thumb
Crystaline Green
Order of the Khanid Crown
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Posted - 2006.11.26 17:21:00 -
[11]
 Originally by: Alkirin
Even with cool advertising...it's still going to run down to cheapest and closest.
The emphasis needs to be on controlling who you buy from, and who can buy what you market.
WHAT WE NEED IS A WAY OF CREATING UNIQUE ITEMS
Let me just say that again, just so you get the idea.
WHAT WE NEED IS A WAY OF CREATING UNIQUE ITEMS
My A-level Business Studies says there are 4P's when it comes to marketing:
Place, Price, Promotion and Product
Atm we have Place and Price in eve. We don't have product differentiation, so we don't have Product. Promotion flops in eve as everyone can directly see your price and location are in a nice convenient list (oh if only there was a "market" for RL)
***
Spoon Thumb - I can scoop ice cream with my thumbs!
http://myeve. |
Laboratus
Gallente
BGG
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.27 00:07:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Spoon Thumb
Originally by: Alkirin
Even with cool advertising...it's still going to run down to cheapest and closest.
The emphasis needs to be on controlling who you buy from, and who can buy what you market.
WHAT WE NEED IS A WAY OF CREATING UNIQUE ITEMS
Let me just say that again, just so you get the idea.
WHAT WE NEED IS A WAY OF CREATING UNIQUE ITEMS
My A-level Business Studies says there are 4P's when it comes to marketing:
Place, Price, Promotion and Product
Atm we have Place and Price in eve. We don't have product differentiation, so we don't have Product. Promotion flops in eve as everyone can directly see your price and location are in a nice convenient list (oh if only there was a "market" for RL)
I love the idea in it self, being able to differentiate and being able to build a brand.
But it would just make the database silly. And huge. And propably unmanageble.
___
P.S.
Post with your main.
Mind control and tin hats |
Jurai Ginaz
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Posted - 2006.11.27 19:08:00 -
[13]
There's one problem to that:
If I had podded you and you set my standing to zero so i could not buy your stuff....
I would just make an alt and have it buy the items I need and trade them to the char that podded you.
In short, you ask for a huge programming effort that is bypassed easily.
The only way i can think of to make non-combat skill characters have some effect in the combat aspect of the game is to allow players to do something that WING COMMANDER PRIVATEER 2 had: Hire NPC's and command them.
Thus your trader/miner character.. with the money made.. can literally hire a flippin' fleet to escort you. With the ability to 'command' the npc fleet in their roles (aka tell an npc in an EWS ship to jam a certain target, etc) you will not need to depend on other players to go through unsafe space.
There is nothing you can do to prevent one player that podded you from buying your items. But you can certainly make his chances of podding you extremely difficult if you had an NPC fleet protecting you.
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Atrial Quartz
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.29 19:14:00 -
[14]
whispers from a lost age.
a long time ago in Ultima you had to sell wares thru vendors or by yourself at a bank. now he bank sales were often the bst and most readilly available deals. but "red" players couldent come into town to buy from them. the deturant lasted all of 20 seconds it took to make a noobie character and go buy the gear for your ciminal.
The same olds true with eve. people will just use alts to get what they want. In order to impliment this you would need to kill every account that was in any way connected to the other pilot. same email, creditcard, address, name ect.
but CCP gets paid ither way so i doubt it will ever stop
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Alz Shado
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Posted - 2006.11.29 19:19:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Atrial Quartz
whispers from a lost age.
a long time ago in Ultima you had to sell wares thru vendors or by yourself at a bank. now he bank sales were often the bst and most readilly available deals. but "red" players couldent come into town to buy from them. the deturant lasted all of 20 seconds it took to make a noobie character and go buy the gear for your ciminal.
The same olds true with eve. people will just use alts to get what they want. In order to impliment this you would need to kill every account that was in any way connected to the other pilot. same email, creditcard, address, name ect.
but CCP gets paid ither way so i doubt it will ever stop
Reverse the idea: allow market orders to select Corp/Alliance customers only, or allow the seller to specify a minimum standings level.
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Ilor Prophet
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Posted - 2006.11.29 22:33:00 -
[16]
Minimum standings is the way to go. It neatly cuts out the Alt problem, as only customers who have impressed you (or your corporation, or people you know and trust) would be able to buy your goods. If you found people reselling your goods you could drop their standings and be able to cut them off from buying from you.
As a side note, however, it would be good to know exactly from whom you're buying. Currently the market only tells you who has bought stuff from you (e.g. the market log, "You sold stuff to Barnaby Jones", etc), but on the buying end all it says is "Market escrow." Being able to track who is buying from you as well as selling to you strikes me as a very useful market capability.
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Alkirin
Gallente
Die Hard Mining
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Posted - 2006.11.30 02:37:00 -
[17]
Excellent. So, allow players to adjust a variety of standing requirements and restrictions on their goods.
Also allow players to see the characters they are buying from. This is subject to the same workaround as alts...but you can simply not buy from them. There will be those more worth your isk than the people who some think have enough as is.
[Cogito Ergo Sum Atheios] - Alkirin of Scientia Obscura |
Anderson Wes
Ars Caelestis
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.30 18:06:00 -
[18]
I don't have a problem with alts. You just set your 'minimum to buy from' standing to +1 or something and you're set. This isn't going to be a 'firm barrier', just a wall that can be bypassed.
IOW, /signed to the OP. |
CocoaJin
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Posted - 2006.11.30 20:13:00 -
[19]
i agree that there needs to be more non-combat oriented content. There needs to be some economic, intellectual/research, political and social content and goals added to the game.
there is more to life than blowing stuff up, and most real combat is not for combat's sake, but to achieve other goals that are totally non-combat oriented...basically for economical, intellectual, and political desires, which generally boil down to social and communal and family security. Its the opportunity to provide for self, off-spring and loved ones. The ability to hold a planet not just because it has good resources to mine and sell, but because its hospitable, it has clean water, beautiful scenery, because its a pleasurable place to live, raise a family and die at an old age with deeper sense of achievement.
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Lygos
ISS Navy Task Force
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Posted - 2006.11.30 22:56:00 -
[20]
The idea of giving discounts to select groups, say employees, or business partners, or generally deserving individuals seems to be the most sound one. Luckily, it's possible that CCP may not even need to be the ones that code it. Well, not all of it anyhow. For example, a smart marketer might give rebates to customers that register on their IGB website in exchange for permission marketting efforts.
What CCP also could really, really benefit from is using their distinct version of IRC, and merging it with IGB tools. IRC clients can generally access browser sites, but how often can html code engage IRC clients? To my non-IT mind, this seems like a rich synthesis.
In terms of more general networking, it is clear that EVE needs something innovative to attach to its IRC client. The wide open freedom is great, but if there were some way to flexibly direct resource, and at the same time demonstrate the utility of the system, then I think it could be better. What would be the supreme demonstration of skill would be a dynamic, user-created portal for IRC. I don't think the web has really seen something like that yet outside of static media like html directories.
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Private Investment should preceed Public Investment |
Alkirin
Gallente
Die Hard Mining
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Posted - 2006.12.01 03:42:00 -
[21]
Slightly over my head techno-babble ftw? 
[Cogito Ergo Sum Atheios] - Alkirin of Scientia Obscura |
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