Because of the no ammo/no cycle thing, it's why lasers are up there too.

Even if they are crap at everything else, they will still be economically superior/easier on the pilot/afk-able.

Or show the values split out, I don't mind.

Lumping it together can easily mask poor systems - for example if something is ONLY used to grid HPs but never used in ship to ship combat, that's a huge problem - lumping it all as one masks this big time.

Myrm has the top applied DPS, top range, while sporting the second highest tankability (next to Drake). I would say many folks don't give it enough credit. I don't discard the damage from ganking which is why i specifically mentioned it. Bashing to me is not PVP, it is PVE, if you are fighting another fleet at a POS, then its PVP...but you probably won't have your gang of Oracles on grid at that point either not that bashing is relevant really since it is going to be going the way of the dodo in coming months, and then Lasers will likely be buffed because well thats really all they have.

I personally think the Ishtar is fine, it was fine months ago, it was fine last year, it is a good ship, and i will argue until i am blue in the face, Sentry Drones do not belong on Cruiser sized ships. They are the common thread between all the "strong" ships and why Vexors and VNIs are commonplace in small gang, and why Ishtars are the go to for big fleets, and why Gilas had their bonuses overhauled.

I don't think the Ishtar should have been tweaked at all tbh, because its not the ship, it never was the ship. Its the Sentries.

At least you cared to make a proposal. But look how non elegant it becomes with basically alist of several exceptions glued together.

The problem is that they simply cannot make 4 reasonable and at same time generic bonuses for drones without making the ship OP.

I probably would remove the sentry bonus completely and replace it for a large bonus to ewar drones. They are almsot not used.. so at least might change something.

The only ship that should ever get sentry bonus shoudl be the domi on my opinion.

Source: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/balance-changes-coming-in-scylla/

Orly? So if some ships sucks we should make ALL ships sucks too? SO MUCH FUN play on the useless **** ship!11
How about buff all ships instead nerf good ship? Ofc not coz its required some brain, time and money, better kill one, its take less time and can be done in BRAINOFF mode...
God bless this dev...

Well of course. Then his isk ticks wont be harmed.

Edit: I am also amused by the use "11" instead of exclamation points in his post. **** just got serious. He cranked the rage up to 11.

But adapting is hard. Its easier to rage on the forums than to create fits that take advantage of the changes. Stop using that logic.. succumb to the rage!11

While I believe I understand why you felt the need to adjust DDAs I don't at all agree with the decision as it is not an "Ishtar" module but rather a "Drone" module which I am fairly certain is clear in their descriptions. The issue I see with this is an over-reaching nerf hammer hitting every drone based dps ship not to mention the ones using a complement of drones and guns in balance. Surely there is a better way to reduce DPS (if that is in fact what you are trying to do to Ishtars) than changing DDAs as they will affect more than just Ishtars.

Next up, Drone Damage Amplifiers. While the Ishtar has really taken the spotlight as the most oppressive ship around, drone focused hulls are extremely strong across the board. From the Algos and the Tristan, to the Vexor and the Gila, to the Dominix and the Armageddon we see higher damage output and activity than the competition. For that reason we are going to lower the % damage bonus from DDA's just slightly. Numbers as follows:

Should have also added how oppressive the Eos, the Nestor, the Stratios all are and not forgetting how the Ishkur, Prophesy, Arbitrator etc completely outclass every other ship in their class by sheer dps. To keep the game balanced and fun the best thing to do is nerf ships, remove features and ensure simple things become more tedious.

Not really seeing the need to reduce drone damage amps effectiveness, while ramping up heavy missiles 5%. All people are going to fly now are drakes and tengu's. a lot of drone boats are used because ammo is a significant factor in the pve experience when trying to earn isk. Why are you nerfing an entire weapon system into the ground, when in comparison to the others it is already weaker? oh that's right, because you still have your hand in the cookie jar via PLEX and buying ammo is just one more isk sink.

Funny how there is no one that is saying the Myrm, Eos, or the Prophecy are "OP" yet still get hammered with the DDA nerf. Also how about those drone related implants that seem to not exist. Ya, some "balance".

Edit: Lets not even mention that drones are destructible or that they have to travel to target (aside from sentries).

The major problem with the Ishtar is that it is the only cruiser size hull capable of fielding a full set of battleship grade weapons. There might be other minor issues, but it's the full flight of sentry drones that throw everything out of balance.

To me, logically the solution should center around the removal of Sentry Drones. An incredibly simple solution would be nerfing the bandwidth down to a 100MB/s. This would help as it would limit the number of deployable sentries to 4, but not impact any of the other aspects of the ship and how it's used in fleets. With the DPS reduced by 20% it could still do more DPS at a longer range than some AHACs, but it's a start and further tweaks could be implemented from there.

I don't understand why, instead of a relatively simple solution CCP opted to make a great number of changes with increasing complexity and nerf around the issue?

Considering rebalancing is happening all the time, I expect some of the proposed changes will be reverted at some point, which will be a massive pain due to the myriad of introduced changes.

People keep justifying this questionable change with "powercreep is bad," but at some point all choices need to remain viable. If they nerf drones too hard, drones become unviable.

So you are saying the nerf is not going to effect said ships? Okay.

Where you get your statistics from is beyond me .. ishtar still twice dps? insane now ruined .. did you forget it only has 2 rig slots

Trains into worlds most OBVIOUSLY overpowered hull and weapon.

These are nerfed.

Cries "unfair" that they are now maybe in the same league as everyone else.




Aaaaah eve-o forums. Delivering shiptoasting 24/7/365

I'm glad the Myrm, Eos, and Prophecy were included in this nerf for no apparent reason other than laziness.

Yes because all "26" of them deserved a nerf apparently.

So because when I started this game I was pushed towards Gallente and Drones I should be punished. Drones have plenty of mechanics that don't make any sense but I don't see any changes on those. Just the damage. And I don't see any actual numbers on that post so how do I tell how much of a difference there really is?

In your attempts to fix drone based PVP you have once again shafted anybody who would even think for a second, that drones are a viable damage source in PVE.

Just a question, what of the tempest fleet issue? is it getting the same buff as the regular version......
I would hope the TFI would still be a better then the tempest?

For now the TFI will not get the same bonus change. We'll see how this shakes out and evaluate after.

"We are changing the Tempest's bonus to rate of fire from 5% to 7.5% per level."
cool, eh but yes, whats about the fleet tempest?
will it see the same bonus?
would be great and at least fair.

btw, look at the typhoon/fleet typhoon...
normal typhoon +5% / +5%
fleet typhoon +7,5% / +7,5%
and hands off the fleet typhoon! ok? dont change!

thx.

Mandatory drop in on tempest fleet issue.

Rate of fire it up as well.

Its a battleship too.

Alternatively nerfs every other faction battleship to a subpar dmg to their tier 1 counterpart as a new way of dealing with faction ships.

Why don't you remove the Ishtar from the game instead of crippling it in each second patch?

Reduce drone bay to 25m3. Make the Ishtar a rail platform.
Oddly, its still vastly superior to the muninn. Go figure.

I agree with folks who say that the sentry-specific bonuses are a large part of what makes the Ishtar so powerful. The combination of range, damage, and application in a cruiser hull puts it in a class of its own.

But I feel like part of the problem is also that the Ishtar can achieve all of this using virtually no powergrid for its high slots, which leaves plenty left over for fitting tank, pop mods etc.


I think CCP took a step in the right direction by nerfing the Ishtar's powergrid, but I would go further. I would remove the turret hardpoints altogether, and savagely nerf the powergrid to levels that assume that pilots can only fit things like Drone LInk Augmentors in their highs without using a fitting mod. You want neuts? Fitting mod. Remote rep? Fitting mod.

You get the idea.

This would force a sentry Ishtar to choose two or three of speed, tank, range, and damage. If Ishtars couldn't do all four at once, I think that would go a long way towards balancing them.

If CCP is hellbent on keeping the Ishtar as a sentry sniper (and they certainly seem to be), then give up on the silly notion of it ever fitting guns and balance its powergrid accordingly.

Apocalypse would like to remind the respectable audience of its existence. It also points out that it lacks damage bonus, however.