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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Dvaren
Caldari
Seven Suns
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Posted - 2006.11.27 22:54:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Dvaren on 27/11/2006 22:57:24
Edited by: Dvaren on 27/11/2006 22:56:11
(a) This post was not about the potential problems that miners may encounter in low-sec. The miners are free to start thier own thread related to the subject if they see fit.
(b) Low-sec mission rewards are not staggeringly higher than high-sec rewards. Yet...low-sec risks are not substantially higher either. A nice balance. A reasonable amount of risk and inconvienance balanced by a reasonably higher payout for working there. Adding PC pirates to the mix twists this balance quite severely.
(c) As to being "scared"....this made me laugh, as it is the stereotypical answer spewed by every player pirate that hasn't the ability to keep his head above water in an honest and civil debate. To answer this asinine statement once and for all: If I see a bus coming down the street, I get out of the way. I am not scared of the bus. The bus is not a better man than I. I'm just not stupid.
(d) Low-sec is full of hostiles. They get eaten in high-sec by CONCORD, and hunted like rats in 0.0 where alliances patrol thier territory and kill intruders...pirate and non-pirate alike. This leaves low-sec as the pirates playground. There is no "warping away everythime a pirate enters local". Not in low-sec, not in a mission, and especially not when the upcoming game mechanics lures even more of them.
(e) Reward is not increased for people who stay in low-sec. Implant prices are deflated because of CCPs tampering with Agent offer tables, not because there was some sudden influx of mission runners in low-sec. You will gain the same rewards as you always have. The difference being that now you can use them to replace your ship once a day.
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Perseus D'Solos
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Posted - 2006.11.27 23:20:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Dvaren
(a) This post was not about the potential problems that miners may encounter in low-sec. The miners are free to start thier own thread related to the subject if they see fit.
(b) Low-sec mission rewards are not staggeringly higher than high-sec rewards. Yet...low-sec risks are not substantially higher either. A nice balance. A reasonable amount of risk and inconvienance balanced by a reasonably higher payout for working there. Adding PC pirates to the mix twists this balance quite severely.
(c) As to being "scared"....this made me laugh, as it is the stereotypical answer spewed by every player pirate that hasn't the ability to keep his head above water in an honest and civil debate. To answer this asinine statement once and for all: If I see a bus coming down the street, I get out of the way. I am not scared of the bus. The bus is not a better man than I. I'm just not stupid.
(d) Low-sec is full of hostiles. They get eaten in high-sec by CONCORD, and hunted like rats in 0.0 where alliances patrol thier territory and kill intruders...pirate and non-pirate alike. This leaves low-sec as the pirates playground. There is no "warping away everythime a pirate enters local". Not in low-sec, not in a mission, and especially not when the upcoming game mechanics lures even more of them.
(e) Reward is not increased for people who stay in low-sec. Implant prices are deflated because of CCPs tampering with Agent offer tables, not because there was some sudden influx of mission runners in low-sec. You will gain the same rewards as you always have. The difference being that now you can use them to replace your ship once a day.
Signed.
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Miss Overlord
Gallente
Ferrum Pugnus
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Posted - 2006.11.29 05:08:00 -
[33]
cant see the problem tbh the new scanning system will allow me to drop in on high sec mission runners with probably one WCS still fitted. U know what this will do ill fit ECM loot their cans they will either shoot ( thenn ill jam em up) or they will warp out at which point ill warp out to ( free loot and carebears wont be so safe anymore either)
These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views
This is a disclaimer |
Miss Overlord
Gallente
Ferrum Pugnus
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Posted - 2006.11.29 05:08:00 -
[34]
cant see the problem tbh the new scanning system will allow me to drop in on high sec mission runners with probably one WCS still fitted. U know what this will do ill fit ECM loot their cans they will either shoot ( thenn ill jam em up) or they will warp out at which point ill warp out to ( free loot and carebears wont be so safe anymore either)
These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views
This is a disclaimer |
Miss Overlord
Gallente
Ferrum Pugnus
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Posted - 2006.11.29 05:08:00 -
[35]
cant see the problem tbh the new scanning system will allow me to drop in on high sec mission runners with probably one WCS still fitted. U know what this will do ill fit ECM loot their cans they will either shoot ( thenn ill jam em up) or they will warp out at which point ill warp out to ( free loot and carebears wont be so safe anymore either)
These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views
This is a disclaimer |
Effective Overseer
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.29 05:48:00 -
[36]
/signed.
As with everything ingame, there may be ways to deal with this initially, and the scanning may get balanced somehow in the end.
But as for right now, just grab a ship that can fit a probe launcher, press the 'i win!' button, and collect your new wreck full of juicy lvl4 agent-runner mods.
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Effective Overseer
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.29 05:48:00 -
[37]
/signed.
As with everything ingame, there may be ways to deal with this initially, and the scanning may get balanced somehow in the end.
But as for right now, just grab a ship that can fit a probe launcher, press the 'i win!' button, and collect your new wreck full of juicy lvl4 agent-runner mods.
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Effective Overseer
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.29 05:51:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Miss Overlord
cant see the problem tbh the new scanning system will allow me to drop in on high sec mission runners with probably one WCS still fitted. U know what this will do ill fit ECM loot their cans they will either shoot ( thenn ill jam em up) or they will warp out at which point ill warp out to ( free loot and carebears wont be so safe anymore either)
That made so much sense, that I'm not sure what to do with it all. |
Effective Overseer
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.29 05:51:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Miss Overlord
cant see the problem tbh the new scanning system will allow me to drop in on high sec mission runners with probably one WCS still fitted. U know what this will do ill fit ECM loot their cans they will either shoot ( thenn ill jam em up) or they will warp out at which point ill warp out to ( free loot and carebears wont be so safe anymore either)
That made so much sense, that I'm not sure what to do with it all. |
Lethlia
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Posted - 2006.11.29 05:56:00 -
[40]
On the positive side, it'll give bounty hunters a neat new way to hunt pirates.
1. Get some guy in a raven to start up a mission and quickly clean out the first pocket with some help (with 4 people working you could probably clean a pocket of a mission in 10-20 minutes). Leave the wreaks that have junk loot in space.
2. Refit all ships for pvp, and fit the raven for fast locking, jamming, and warp scrambling... also some eccm would be good.
3. Have the Raven pretend he's looting the cans, and cloak all the other ships and wait.
4. You get lucky and a solo mission-killer pirate shows up (probably has a bounty by now if he's been hunting mission runners).
5. Get him locked down and then uncloak your task force.
6. Bon apitite.
Of course I won't touch low sec missions, I'm not crazy.
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Lethlia
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Posted - 2006.11.29 05:56:00 -
[41]
On the positive side, it'll give bounty hunters a neat new way to hunt pirates.
1. Get some guy in a raven to start up a mission and quickly clean out the first pocket with some help (with 4 people working you could probably clean a pocket of a mission in 10-20 minutes). Leave the wreaks that have junk loot in space.
2. Refit all ships for pvp, and fit the raven for fast locking, jamming, and warp scrambling... also some eccm would be good.
3. Have the Raven pretend he's looting the cans, and cloak all the other ships and wait.
4. You get lucky and a solo mission-killer pirate shows up (probably has a bounty by now if he's been hunting mission runners).
5. Get him locked down and then uncloak your task force.
6. Bon apitite.
Of course I won't touch low sec missions, I'm not crazy.
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Mnengli Noiliffe
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Posted - 2006.11.29 07:11:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Mnengli Noiliffe on 29/11/2006 07:12:15
I have already posted such topic based on SISI some time ago but it's got flamed by pirates.
Though it all is not that bad..
1. no more lvl4 in BS, thats correct, as they are easier to scan for
2. a BC/HAC/CS are still an option, AS even more so, need to test though.
3. learn to do missions fast. So that pirates wouldn't have time to both a) realise you're doing a mission and b) scan you down. Some missions only require you to kill a couple of NPCs, they are still an option.
Although it's questionable if such missions worth doing at all but oh well. All good things come to an end. It was boring anyway, admit it.
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Luke Pubcrawler
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Posted - 2006.11.29 12:59:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Miss Overlord
cant see the problem tbh the new scanning system will allow me to drop in on high sec mission runners with probably one WCS still fitted. Quote:
No WCS after the stab nerf. The WCS penalties gimp your missin running too much. Too many frigates targets and the mission runner is probably in a BS, so lock time is already bad without making it worse with a WCS.
Rewards for lowsec mission running just won't be worth making the effort.
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Ralle030583
The Phoenix cor
Phoenix Allianz
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Posted - 2006.11.29 13:15:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe
3. learn to do missions fast. So that pirates wouldn't have time to both a) realise you're doing a mission and b) scan you down. Some missions only require you to kill a couple of NPCs, they are still an option.
they can scann you in >5 minutes.. but most missions take much longer :-/
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Sadist
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.11.29 13:30:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Loka
Hmm, i must admit, iam not an Agent specialist. But cant your warp off, if you see an enemy in local?
Thats what at least iam doing when ratting in 0.0. Its not that i can fight this Angels in my PvP setup, can i? So you have just to watch local and safespot, if you see enemys in local.
Do i miss the point here?
Nope, I personally think you're quite on target here.
тттттттттттт
VIP member of the [23]
Quote:
- Numbers alone do not win a battle
- No, but I bet they help.
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Tribunal
FIRMA
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:32:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Sadist
Originally by: Loka
Hmm, i must admit, iam not an Agent specialist. But cant your warp off, if you see an enemy in local?
Thats what at least iam doing when ratting in 0.0. Its not that i can fight this Angels in my PvP setup, can i? So you have just to watch local and safespot, if you see enemys in local.
Do i miss the point here?
Nope, I personally think you're quite on target here.
Yes, because missions would actually be completed if everyone warped off when a pirate entered local.  Pirates are constantly patroling mission systems.
I suppose we could all just alt+q when a hostle shows in our mission pocket though <coughs>.
"We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers |
Sadist
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:51:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Tribunal
Yes, because missions would actually be completed if everyone warped off when a pirate entered local. Pirates are constantly patroling mission systems.
I suppose we could all just alt+q when a hostle shows in our mission pocket though <coughs>.
That is blatantly not true. Not all the "patrollers" are pirates and certainly only a very small fraction of them will bother to look for your particular mission. You could also make friends with the locals/pirates and control the system traffic somewhat. Or get a buddy in a recon to guard you while doing a mission or something.
Either is better than coming on the forums and whining.
тттттттттттт
VIP member of the [23]
Quote:
- Numbers alone do not win a battle
- No, but I bet they help.
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Galk
Gallente
Autumn Tactics
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Posted - 2006.11.29 18:43:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Galk on 29/11/2006 18:54:23
Edited by: Galk on 29/11/2006 18:44:41
Originally by: Sadist
You could also make friends with the locals/pirates and control the system traffic somewhat. Or get a buddy in a recon to guard you while doing a mission or something.
Either is better than coming on the forums and whining.
Imho..
Friend in a recon that sits on youre mission bored stiff for an hour or so.....have to be some friend
Spose you could pay somebody to do it, then again.... time you have (unless the guy wants to work for a couple of million an hour) you would make more running missions in a .9 system... negating the need for any of it
The whole point of this thread is to highlight those issues.... we were doing so quite constructively until the thread started to get trolled with generic innuendo (such as the above).
Your arguements do not answer ccp's responsibility they have to bring balance between low and high sec mission running....
Right now it's out of whack, it was before, now your just plain stupid to run missions in low sec.
______
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Sadist
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.11.29 23:24:00 -
[49]
As far as I'm concerned, there is balance between lo-sec and hi-sec missioning, and that is loyalty points, 0.1-0.2 nets you about 2x more LPs than 0.9-1.0, does it not?
тттттттттттт
VIP member of the [23]
Quote:
- Numbers alone do not win a battle
- No, but I bet they help.
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Tristan Acoma
Caldari
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.29 23:39:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Tribunal
Using the scanner to find scan probes is the most annoying act in the world, because you have to use the scanner on the default setting to see scan probes. The default setting brings up ALOT of useless junk, so a person can't just hit the scanner button and make a quick glance.
Or.... you could just check "scan probes" in your overview setup like the rest of us
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Irrilian
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2006.11.29 23:55:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Tristan Acoma
Or.... you could just check "scan probes" in your overview setup like the rest of us
The only problem is that even with pretty character minimal skills the results from using a probe outside someone's scanner range are pretty consistently accurate when you're talking about a battleship, let alone some fat raven with a huge sig radius.
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Thormoden Char
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Posted - 2006.11.29 23:56:00 -
[52]
this is going to become an even bigger problem.
A corp mate of mine was doing a lvl 4 mission and was jumped scrambled and locked down by 6 player pirates in less than 2 minutes from thier entry into the system. skills will continue to bring that down even more.
i have seen calculations showing that it should be possible to scan a battleship out in less that a minute with the right skills. that means inorder to save yourself your only option is to log out as soon as the pirates enter local and hope they dont reach your ship before its destroyed. Of course if the mission rats happen to have you warp scrambled you are pretty much toast and might as well kiss that ship goodby.
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Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.30 00:56:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Dvaren
(c) As to being "scared"....this made me laugh, as it is the stereotypical answer spewed by every player pirate that hasn't the ability to keep his head above water in an honest and civil debate. To answer this asinine statement once and for all: If I see a bus coming down the street, I get out of the way. I am not scared of the bus. The bus is not a better man than I. I'm just not stupid.
Most eloquently put.
The certainty of death when you are mugged by one (more often, two or three) PVP-orientated players whilst
1. you are fitted for PVE and
2. you are ENGAGED in said PVE
is just as great as if you lay down in front of the bus.
---
I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment until you've looked at them. |
Tribunal
FIRMA
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.30 01:06:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Tristan Acoma
Originally by: Tribunal
Using the scanner to find scan probes is the most annoying act in the world, because you have to use the scanner on the default setting to see scan probes. The default setting brings up ALOT of useless junk, so a person can't just hit the scanner button and make a quick glance.
Or.... you could just check "scan probes" in your overview setup like the rest of us
you mean the filter tab that isn't ******* there? I would love to know how everyone else is clicking something that doesn't exist.
"We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers |
Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Euphoria Released
Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.11.30 01:17:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Thormoden Char
i have seen calculations showing that it should be possible to scan a battleship out in less that a minute with the right skills. that means inorder to save yourself your only option is to log out as soon as the pirates enter local and hope they dont reach your ship before its destroyed. Of course if the mission rats happen to have you warp scrambled you are pretty much toast and might as well kiss that ship goodby.
according to Hoshi's scan probe guide in ships and modules it's possible to get a result in less than 25seconds if you have all needed skills on lvl5 and are using scan probe rigs.
as it's a chance based system depending on the sig-radius of the targetship (in this case: raven) you'll likely get a result with the first scan probe cycle.
___________________
EVE: Revelations - The Game for Carebears and Gankbears
no more skill needed for PvP - only skillpoints for Large Bubble and CovOps n00b-alts |
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2006.11.30 01:49:00 -
[56]
Yeah, this is looking like it's going too far.
On another forum and after some experiementing on TQ, Hoshi says 1-2 minutes, point blank accuracy, and a 30-35 second window for the mission runner to detect scan probes.
That's too good. And I say that as someone who pirates, as well as runs missions. As I said in another thread, I don't want the only vulnerable mission runners in LowSec to be noobs who don't know any better because almost everybody else has left.
That's not good for anybody except those who just want random killmails.
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2006.11.30 02:38:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Dvaren
Edited by: Dvaren on 27/11/2006 22:57:24
Edited by: Dvaren on 27/11/2006 22:56:11
(a) This post was not about the potential problems that miners may encounter in low-sec. The miners are free to start thier own thread related to the subject if they see fit.
(b) Low-sec mission rewards are not staggeringly higher than high-sec rewards. Yet...low-sec risks are not substantially higher either. A nice balance. A reasonable amount of risk and inconvienance balanced by a reasonably higher payout for working there. Adding PC pirates to the mix twists this balance quite severely.
(c) As to being "scared"....this made me laugh, as it is the stereotypical answer spewed by every player pirate that hasn't the ability to keep his head above water in an honest and civil debate. To answer this asinine statement once and for all: If I see a bus coming down the street, I get out of the way. I am not scared of the bus. The bus is not a better man than I. I'm just not stupid.
(d) Low-sec is full of hostiles. They get eaten in high-sec by CONCORD, and hunted like rats in 0.0 where alliances patrol thier territory and kill intruders...pirate and non-pirate alike. This leaves low-sec as the pirates playground. There is no "warping away everythime a pirate enters local". Not in low-sec, not in a mission, and especially not when the upcoming game mechanics lures even more of them.
(e) Reward is not increased for people who stay in low-sec. Implant prices are deflated because of CCPs tampering with Agent offer tables, not because there was some sudden influx of mission runners in low-sec. You will gain the same rewards as you always have. The difference being that now you can use them to replace your ship once a day.
/signed
Anyone know some .5 or .6 systems with multiple high quality lvl 4 minmatar agents? If you tell me Im there.
Wherever you went - here you are.
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente
Cheers Restaurant and Bar
Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2006.11.30 03:17:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Dvaren
...what could possible make mission running in lowsec rewarding enough for me to effectively turn my Raven into a "pirate-asteroid" to mine?
Do the missions that a T1/T2 fitted BS can do, in a T1/T2 fitted BS. Risk/reward balance returns, and pirates don't get your faction gear. I have access to around 20 low sec level 4 agents in 2 different low sec systems, and can always find one of them that will give me Down the Slavers or Vengeance, which are my main milk run missions.
I am hoping that the ease with which pirates can probe out missions will have the effect of reducing the price of faction gear, maybe even making some of those mods worth using in PvP.
-- Guile can always trump hardware -- |
Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.30 11:24:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Grey Area on 30/11/2006 11:57:33
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
Do the missions that a T1/T2 fitted BS can do, in a T1/T2 fitted BS. Risk/reward balance returns, and pirates don't get your faction gear.
Risks;
Pirate finds ship in 2 minutes. Mission runner has to warp out. Mission not completed. Standing losses. Mission Runner stays and loses ship, ISK losses (T2 BS approximately what, 200 mill?).
Rewards;
For BEST missions, maybe 40 million. No one's going to stick around to loot the mission with scanning THIS easy, so you can discount the loot.
That means to break even (and I only mean financially, not talking about the new crippling faction standing loss for failing a mission), mission runners have to successfully complete 5 missions for every ONE they lose a ship on. From what is posted here, that's just NOT going to be the ratio.
if you have high Faction standing, the faction loss for failing a mission will take LITERALY hundreds of missions to regain...you have to COMPLETE 16 missions to get ANY faction increase...and then when you do some of those faction increases are insultingly small. It's because of the way standing works...if you have 9.00 standing and you lose 10%, it goes down to 8.1. if you have 8.1 standing and you GAIN 10%, it only goes up to 8.29.
If the above figures look wrong...then you don't know how the standing system works. Losses are calculated on your standing (so 10% x 9.0 = 0.9 loss), but gains are calculated on "ten minus your standing" (so (10 -8.1) = 1.9 x 10% = 0.19 gain).
Motsu will have about 1,000 players by the end of the month...
---
I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment until you've looked at them. |
Perseus D'Solos
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Posted - 2006.11.30 13:42:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Perseus D''Solos on 30/11/2006 13:43:30
Originally by: Grey Area
Edited by: Grey Area on 30/11/2006 11:57:33
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
Do the missions that a T1/T2 fitted BS can do, in a T1/T2 fitted BS. Risk/reward balance returns, and pirates don't get your faction gear.
Risks;
Pirate finds ship in 2 minutes. Mission runner has to warp out. Mission not completed. Standing losses. Mission Runner stays and loses ship, ISK losses (T2 BS approximately what, 200 mill?).
Rewards;
For BEST missions, maybe 40 million. No one's going to stick around to loot the mission with scanning THIS easy, so you can discount the loot.
That means to break even (and I only mean financially, not talking about the new crippling faction standing loss for failing a mission), mission runners have to successfully complete 5 missions for every ONE they lose a ship on. From what is posted here, that's just NOT going to be the ratio.
Um, 40m a mission is a VERY high estimate. I run lvl 4 missions in 02 and 03, and I get between 15 and a little over 20, tops, for the best missions, and I usually go it solo.
Then I'm counting rewards and bounties, not loot, which is 99% crap anyways, unless it's a drone mission, of which the best ones usually net me 15m counting rewards and minerals.
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