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Draconia Blackheart Disciples of the Underverse	Posted - 2006.11.25 09:49:00 - [1] Edited by: Draconia Blackheart on 25/11/2006 09:50:46 Kali (Revelations) Changes on 28 Nov. http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?sid=998648496 * "Large ship assembly arrays can no longer be anchored in 0.5 security space and above." This really sucks, but I guess it will get more players into 0.4 and lower So they can be ganked by gangs. But anyone that wants a POS in High-Sec and put up with the IMHO ridiculous qualification needed just got the main money making point of an Empire POS nerfed.. Now Empire POS's cannot moon-mine, no reactions, no ship building of any decent size, whats next? no refining and research? And what about those Empire POS's that HAVE a anchored Large Ship Array are they just 'lucky', will they lose it? Or will the Emipre POS just be one big ISK sink for the wealthy.. Is this the way CCP is going to force the populous into low-sec? I'm not a carebear but it would have been nice to make ships (BS,freighters etc) without going to low-sec. Guess I start looking around for a little used 0.3 system, because empire POS is screwed now.. ---
Amadeus Brasky True Prominence	Posted - 2006.11.25 16:22:00 - [2] Originally by: Draconia Blackheart Edited by: Draconia Blackheart on 25/11/2006 09:50:46 * "Large ship assembly arrays can no longer be anchored in 0.5 security space and above." Now Empire POS's cannot moon-mine, no reactions, no ship building of any decent size, whats next? no refining and research? I'm not a carebear but it would have been nice to make ships (BS,freighters etc) without going to low-sec. Guess I start looking around for a little used 0.3 system, because empire POS is screwed now.. Ok, I have heard this argument and I am going to pose a counter argument in terms of making the game more "real": If you controlled an empire, would you want a private organziation contructing dreads or carriers within your own protected space? Would you want private corporations profiting from mining moons that you technically own? Now, assuming BoB is it's own mini-empire, I highly doubt they would let someone just set up and start building dreads for themselves. They would charge an inordinate amount of money to do that in exchange for their protection. Here is my compromise: Create charters that allow large ship arrays to function in high sec (maybe .5 only?), and have them cost a lot more than normal charters. That's all I got. Mr. Brasky True Prominence wants YOU! Click here for our recuitment thread.
Peri Helion Amarr Omega Whiskey Tango Foxtrot Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.26 16:25:00 - [3] Originally by: Amadeus Brasky Originally by: Draconia Blackheart Edited by: Draconia Blackheart on 25/11/2006 09:50:46 * "Large ship assembly arrays can no longer be anchored in 0.5 security space and above." Now Empire POS's cannot moon-mine, no reactions, no ship building of any decent size, whats next? no refining and research? I'm not a carebear but it would have been nice to make ships (BS,freighters etc) without going to low-sec. Guess I start looking around for a little used 0.3 system, because empire POS is screwed now.. Ok, I have heard this argument and I am going to pose a counter argument in terms of making the game more "real": If you controlled an empire, would you want a private organziation contructing dreads or carriers within your own protected space? Would you want private corporations profiting from mining moons that you technically own? Now, assuming BoB is it's own mini-empire, I highly doubt they would let someone just set up and start building dreads for themselves. They would charge an inordinate amount of money to do that in exchange for their protection. Here is my compromise: Create charters that allow large ship arrays to function in high sec (maybe .5 only?), and have them cost a lot more than normal charters. That's all I got. Mr. Brasky That is a Capital Assembly Array you are thinking of, and you already couldnt build a Dread/Carrier any higher than .4 or .3 ________________________________ CCP, Invalidating the underlying assumptions that thousands of players have based their years of effort (and money) on.
Big Al The Aftermath	Posted - 2006.11.26 16:28:00 - [4] Originally by: Peri Helion That is a Capital Assembly Array you are thinking of, and you already couldnt build a Dread/Carrier any higher than .4 or .3 Wrong. Kill a farmer, win some isk!
Rafein Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.11.27 09:53:00 - [5] I was done because players were making Dreads/Carriers in Empire, where they are not allowed.
franny Phoenix Knights	Posted - 2006.11.27 10:18:00 - [6] imo CCP should have split the dread/carrier off from the lrg ship assembly, and made a new POS construction array one that couldn't be anchored in 0.5+ then people could still build freighters/BS's at the high sec POS's
Rafein Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.11.27 10:46:00 - [7] Also see nothing about them taking them down, only making it so you cannot anchor them anymore. Seems those that are already anchored can remain.

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2006.11.27 10:54:00 - [8] afaik when speaking to the devs large arrays will be put into Offline state when Kali hits, allowing you to unanchor it. EVE-Files \| EVE-Search \| Monitor this Thread

Kaaii Caldari Equilibrium LLC United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2006.11.27 10:55:00 - [9] Originally by: Chribba afaik when speaking to the devs large arrays will be put into Offline state when Kali hits, allowing you to unanchor it. And did you ask what happens to ships being built inside at the time? Kaaii Trading 101

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:21:00 - [10] Originally by: Kaaii Originally by: Chribba afaik when speaking to the devs large arrays will be put into Offline state when Kali hits, allowing you to unanchor it. And did you ask what happens to ships being built inside at the time? Kaaii Nope, but would imagine that the job completes, but once you try to deliver it, it will say that the array needs to be online, and when you go to turn it on you will get the message that you are not allowed to turn it on. Just my guess, I don't know what happends with a job if the tower runs out of fuel etc. EVE-Files \| EVE-Search \| Monitor this Thread

Vasiliyan PAX Interstellar Services Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.27 13:05:00 - [11] Not making money? Don't do that then. It's not like you've invested tons of skillpoints in POS operation - just a capital investment that you can sell on.
Lanfear's Bane Shih Yang Tong Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.27 13:12:00 - [12] That's really sad. Tell the devs that you will trade back warp to 0, I think that would be a healthy exchange. Lanfear's Bane. _ _ _
Draconia Blackheart Disciples of the Underverse	Posted - 2006.11.27 14:08:00 - [13] Originally by: Lanfear's Bane That's really sad. Tell the devs that you will trade back warp to 0, I think that would be a healthy exchange. Lanfear's Bane. Why? Warp to Zero is screwed if you read this http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=431457 ---
Lanfear's Bane Shih Yang Tong Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.27 15:54:00 - [14] Originally by: Draconia Blackheart Originally by: Lanfear's Bane That's really sad. Tell the devs that you will trade back warp to 0, I think that would be a healthy exchange. Lanfear's Bane. Why? Warp to Zero is screwed if you read this http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=431457 My corp mate has been refining this --> I talk to tiller about it --> tiller posts --> I post in it too --> I get directed to teh post. It's like a little EVE circle of life We were doing this on Saturday with tiller catching and us shooting. It was working well. Lanfear's Bane. _ _ _
Kaaii Caldari Equilibrium LLC United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2006.11.27 18:08:00 - [15] Originally by: Chribba Originally by: Kaaii Originally by: Chribba afaik when speaking to the devs large arrays will be put into Offline state when Kali hits, allowing you to unanchor it. And did you ask what happens to ships being built inside at the time? Kaaii Nope, but would imagine that the job completes, but once you try to deliver it, it will say that the array needs to be online, and when you go to turn it on you will get the message that you are not allowed to turn it on. Just my guess, I don't know what happends with a job if the tower runs out of fuel etc. got this on another thread- Originally by: Kaaii Im really interested in what you all plan to do with large ship asm arrays that are already anchored in 05+ systems. Can you give any details? ======= According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. The restriction is on the anchoring of new LSAA's. ======== kieron Community Manager, EVE Online ======================= Whew.... Trading 101

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2006.11.27 18:38:00 - [16] Sounds good, just be aware if you plan on use it for capital production you may end up not so happy as I got "told off" by GMs that it would be the last time they would move my ship out from the array and that I should cease manufacturing of capital ships in LSA. If this is the case or if they just said so I dunno but there may be a risk. FYI. EVE-Files \| EVE-Search \| Monitor this Thread

Jacque Custeau Knights of the Minmatar Republic	Posted - 2006.11.27 18:39:00 - [17] So much misinformation in this thread. The following is how things are now (pre-Kali): 1- Dreads, Carriers and other capital ships are made in the Capital Ship Assembly Array, not the Large Ship Assembly Array. 2- The Large Ship Assembly Array is for making Battleships. Making battleships at a POS is a bad idea in the business/mass production sense. It only makes sense in deep space 0.0. The reason its a bad idea in empire or low sec is that no indy can haul a battleship(s) away from the array. The battleship has to be assembled into the ship maintenance array and then piloted back to a station for sale or placement inside a freighter. Like any good builder, we know that we make the ships that make us money, not necessarily the ones we have the skills to fly. 3- Capital Ship Assembly Arrays can only be anchored in systems where the corporation holds sovreignty. That excludes all of empire space and pirate faction space (e.g. Curse, Venal, Stain, Fountain) For the reasons mentioned in (2) I expect this nerf to have minimal effect. I myself would love to be able to have a high sec POS, but I don't have the standings needed for it. If I recall correctly, only mobile labs will have the new invention slots, and mobile labs are things that you will have no problems anchoring at a small to medium POS. One thing that does annoy me with Kali is the change to research/manufacturing times for fighters. Fighters were one of the few things that really made sense to manufacture at a POS, and with this change the market will get flooded.
Big Al The Aftermath	Posted - 2006.11.27 18:56:00 - [18] Originally by: Chribba Sounds good, just be aware if you plan on use it for capital production you may end up not so happy as I got "told off" by GMs that it would be the last time they would move my ship out from the array and that I should cease manufacturing of capital ships in LSA. If this is the case or if they just said so I dunno but there may be a risk. FYI. I can't speak from personal experience, but I know of people in the horizons corp who make high sec dreads and carriers who have never needed GM help getting them out. Something to do with the distance between the LSAA and the storage thingy. Kill a farmer, win some isk!

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2006.11.27 19:17:00 - [19] Originally by: Big Al I can't speak from personal experience, but I know of people in the horizons corp who make high sec dreads and carriers who have never needed GM help getting them out. Something to do with the distance between the LSAA and the storage thingy. Would be sweet to know how then, since I've produced both carriers and dreads at my POS but never been able to move eject the ship due to a security error, eg "you are not allowed to do that in this 0.6"-type of error. Always have needed GMs to move the ships into a station. Feel free to drop me a line on how they did it, thanks. EVE-Files \| EVE-Search \| Monitor this Thread

Kaaii Caldari Equilibrium LLC United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2006.11.27 19:30:00 - [20] And me.. While my project is just a few months young ive put out a few carriers to date in high sec. Everyone of them was moved by a GM. there were no harsh words from them and in fact they were most pleasent. Maybe you just got one having a bad day. The data base does say you can build these ships there. I wouldn't have put one in otherwise. While im sympathetic to the hind sight they now have regarding this, the water is over the dam, so it would create more grief to go back on their stated uses now that there are many of them in high sec. I would not be bothered if they made an additional fuel req for them, more charters etc. RP it as Concord leveys heavy taxes on empire ship builders, or some such thing. Not that it would stop anyone now that they are set up. If you can afford to produce carriers/dreads more charters won't hurt you, except maybe your bottom line. Anyway, it is good news. It would also be interesting to find out how the moves are done w/o GM assistance as this would free them up for more pressing matters. Trading 101
Jacque Custeau Knights of the Minmatar Republic	Posted - 2006.11.27 20:57:00 - [21] Edited by: Jacque Custeau on 27/11/2006 21:18:33 Edited by: Jacque Custeau on 27/11/2006 21:06:13 Originally by: Chribba Originally by: Big Al I can't speak from personal experience, but I know of people in the horizons corp who make high sec dreads and carriers who have never needed GM help getting them out. Something to do with the distance between the LSAA and the storage thingy. Would be sweet to know how then, since I've produced both carriers and dreads at my POS but never been able to move eject the ship due to a security error, eg "you are not allowed to do that in this 0.6"-type of error. Always have needed GMs to move the ships into a station. Feel free to drop me a line on how they did it, thanks. Chribba I was thinking about making carriers at a POS but I can't fly them. Will GMs move them to a station upon request? Or is this only for high sec building? If not, then I am pretty much limited to building carriers I can fly. I am not sure if I should spend 1 bil (296mil isk for carrier skill, each race) and several months training them all up. Even so, it looks like I would need to get a capital ship maintenance array, and you cant anchor that anywhere in empire space. So manufacturing Dreads/Carriers at any empire POS cant be done? Anyone know if a carrier can be placed in a normal ship maintenance array?
Skarraza	Posted - 2006.11.29 04:55:00 - [22] Originally by: Rafein Edit: And you can already build Freighters in Empire stations. Can anyone else confirm this? I was thinking to get into the freighter market once I save up a bit more isk, but not if I have to risk everything building out in the badlands.

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