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Mike Rothschild
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2015.07.04 16:20:30 -
[1] - Quote
I was thinking, I'm probably not the first, about the shares system.
Shares are currently just a social way to rank people in a corporation/alliance right?
Shares don't have any economic dimension.
But what if we create that? A shares market as it is in real life, where people can buy and sell shares and, through this, have more or less influence in a corporation they are trusting enough to invest in it. It could create a new economical and sociological background to the game.
What you think about it?
Rule n°1 : "No one says anything "just so" and everything that is being said or written is an expression of the inner self."
Pixie Tickle
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
32006
|
Posted - 2015.07.04 16:30:18 -
[2] - Quote
I know a thread with potential when I see one.
Subscribed.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10596
|
Posted - 2015.07.04 16:33:20 -
[3] - Quote
Shares are a great investment, particularly in someone else's Corp.
=]|[=
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Mike Rothschild
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2015.07.04 16:41:10 -
[4] - Quote
Yeah, I know, this is the point. It's a tit for that.
There are some players with great business ideas but they can't because they don't own enough money for that.
What if, a random player with a business that could make billions of ISK. He always keeps 50% of the shares and sell the other 50% to player with a minimum % of gain.
This guy invest in a business of his own, earn a lot of money and pay back those who invested. Both are winning.
Rule n°1 : "No one says anything "just so" and everything that is being said or written is an expression of the inner self."
Pixie Tickle
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10596
|
Posted - 2015.07.04 16:44:36 -
[5] - Quote
Ok you are new with a good attitude so I'll save you the horrors.
With one share someone can oust you as CEO and take your Corp from you.
Whatever els about shares they're just too dangerous to hand out to people.
=]|[=
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Cellini Benvenuto
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
27
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Posted - 2015.07.04 16:51:58 -
[6] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Ok you are new with a good attitude so I'll save you the horrors.
With one share someone can oust you as CEO and take your Corp from you.
Whatever els about shares they're just too dangerous to hand out to people.
But perhaps that's an issue and not a reason to not develop this further?
I really like Eve economy model - it is literally a free for all. And I think share system has a potential to make Eve a lot more interesting from an economic point of view?
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
1245
|
Posted - 2015.07.04 19:31:49 -
[7] - Quote
I'll sell you all my shares for a billion! in return you get well.... nothing
@ChainsawPlankto
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Marsha Mallow
2291
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Posted - 2015.07.04 20:11:38 -
[8] - Quote
Actually ingame shares have 3 functions off the top of my head - and all of them are broken. The main one most people use it for is to keep control of a corp (or spread shares between directors so they can replace AFK CEOs etc) but once people leave the corp there's no way to get corp shares back. Another is to lockdown assets like blueprints, which is a massive pain in the arse and often needs to be petitioned to get an unlock. The last is to distribute shares to pay dividends through, but as you can't forcibly recall shares this system is also pretty broken (and wasn't very sophisticated to start with).
This is one that has been discussed in depth in Market Discussions. You might get a better discussion there, or find an active topic. There used to be a fairly vigorous 'secondary market' based around investment/borrowing etc. The collapse of some of the largest public schemes like DBank, Ebank, T4U due to burnout/scams etc have made collateralised loans preferred. People do still launch IPOs/Bonds etc they just tend to avoid using the ingame share system.
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: TO THE PITCHFORKMOBILE!
Benny Ohu wrote: fire up the argument calibrators set phasers to outraged overheat keyboards reinforce the thread
ISD Ezwal wrote: Nope, no one will get banned for 'rubbing'
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Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
262
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Posted - 2015.07.04 22:00:54 -
[9] - Quote
waste of programming time because the end net result will be people creating scam corps then nobody will want to invest and we end up with a lot of waste DEV time on this when they should have been doing other things.
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
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Mike Rothschild
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2015.07.04 22:47:54 -
[10] - Quote
So, the main problem would be that shares would be only scamming. I understand that though. Trust isn't easily given in EVE! About this, it should be something really important like, I buy your shares, but if you don't pay me back, I will be able to replace you as CEO or anything like that. What I mean is that, it should be dangerous for the sellers to not pay back their clients.
Actually, shares are really complex to handle. So we have to get close to the reality. If CCP decide to start this, this should be reglemented with a AI system.
I know it's hard to launch but it would be so interesting to see that.
The competition between buyers and between sellers in EVE is nothing more than economic : the price. If we can create something more complete with structural competitiveness : quality and everything around, it would definetely help to create this shares market.
Rule n°1 : "No one says anything "just so" and everything that is being said or written is an expression of the inner self."
Pixie Tickle
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Angelica Dreamstar
Miner's House of ill repute
648
|
Posted - 2015.07.05 12:48:42 -
[11] - Quote
Isn't James selling literally corporate shares?
omg i need to redo my picture!
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CistaCista
EVE Museum
12
|
Posted - 2015.07.05 13:38:03 -
[12] - Quote
Stop theorising, buy shares today. |
CistaCista
EVE Museum
12
|
Posted - 2015.07.05 13:41:41 -
[13] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Ok you are new with a good attitude so I'll save you the horrors.
With one share someone can oust you as CEO and take your Corp from you.
Whatever els about shares they're just too dangerous to hand out to people.
Nonsense, only a director in your corp can suggest a new ceo. Just holding shares gives no power over the corp.
Just don't make other players directors if you want to use shares in your business, and you are fine. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10612
|
Posted - 2015.07.05 14:35:13 -
[14] - Quote
CistaCista wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Ok you are new with a good attitude so I'll save you the horrors.
With one share someone can oust you as CEO and take your Corp from you.
Whatever els about shares they're just too dangerous to hand out to people. Nonsense, only a director in your corp can suggest a new ceo. Just holding shares gives no power over the corp. Just don't make other players directors if you want to use shares in your business, and you are fine.
Untrue,
shareholders still get a vote regardless of being in the Corp or not.
I know this because I helped oust my old corps absentee CEO whilst still in the devil's
True only a director can instigate a vote (I think, I'll have to double check) or create shares but you don't actually need to be in the Corp to influence anything those shares would entitle you a vote on.
=]|[=
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CistaCista
EVE Museum
14
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Posted - 2015.07.05 15:21:09 -
[15] - Quote
Once more, only a director can suggest a new ceo. The reason for suggesting a new ceo is naturally to topple the old ceo.
It rarely happens that the director from inside the corp naively instigates a vote to topple the ceo - but without actually wanting that to happen - and then unforeseen by everyone, there is someone outside the corp who also holds shares, who makes it so that the suggestion passes.
Very rarely indeed.
So once again, it does not matter for governance of the corp who holds the shares, as long as you do not give other players the director role.
If you feel it is necessary to have actual directors in your corp, then you should not distribute shares to other than yourself. |
Mike Rothschild
Trading MR Inc.
7
|
Posted - 2015.07.05 20:10:51 -
[16] - Quote
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:Heya! Thanks to you I just now looked them up again! They've vanished out of my mind and it's good to be reminded that they're still here! I like the idea behind it, because it allows us an easy way to spread ISK to multiple people at once. I am selling corporate shares, 10.000.000 ISK each, ten per person max. Your share represents your trust into my company, which we all easily value in ISK. The share also allows us to pay out dividends, which means you WILL get money back on a REGULAR basis! A single share guarantees work for several people over the course of weeks. This work brings back the money into the system that's needed to be paid out to the shareholders. Please state "GET SHARE" as reason in your transaction box. I am logged in RIGHT now, waiting for your orders!  Ten shares per person, 500 shares' the limit. Am I doing it right? 
This is more or less what I was thinking yeah. But your corporation needs to invest these ISK to earn more : something like POS or PI...
And the debate over replacing a CEO is good. For me, this is a sword above the head of the actual CEO who is sharing his shares (lel), he knows that if he's not paying investors back, he may be replaced. But still, he can always keep 50% of the shares for himself.
And, to know if this corporation is good or bad, the market would be here. It would be a hint to know the health of the corporation through bid and ask that would have an impact on the price of the share.
Rule n°1 : "No one says anything "just so" and everything that is being said or written is an expression of the inner self."
Pixie Tickle
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Angelica Dreamstar
Miner's House of ill repute
651
|
Posted - 2015.07.05 20:26:05 -
[17] - Quote
Mike Rothschild wrote:But your corporation needs to invest these ISK to earn more : something like POS or PI... You might want to grow your own corporation you can run into the ground yourself. :)
omg i need to redo my picture!
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10617
|
Posted - 2015.07.05 21:04:21 -
[18] - Quote
CistaCista wrote:Once more, only a director can suggest a new ceo. The reason for suggesting a new ceo is naturally to topple the old ceo.
It rarely happens that the director from inside the corp naively instigates a vote to topple the ceo - but without actually wanting that to happen - and then unforeseen by everyone, there is someone outside the corp who also holds shares, who makes it so that the suggestion passes.
Very rarely indeed.
So once again, it does not matter for governance of the corp who holds the shares, as long as you do not give other players the director role.
If you feel it is necessary to have actual directors in your corp, then you should not distribute shares to other than yourself.
Oh I'm not debating what directors can and can't do, my point is you can (and I have ) help someone ,namely a director, within a corporation you are not a member of if you happen to have a share.
Obviously you can't oust someone all on your own but you hve the power to influence a motion,
particularly if you're the only one that happens to be online,
you can block a vote or potentially prevent someone losing control of their Corp if you actually like the people, it's far from powerless.
=]|[=
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Mike Rothschild
Trading MR Inc.
7
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Posted - 2015.07.05 21:09:35 -
[19] - Quote
Then you should place some trusted person in position to have this kind of influence ^^
Rule n°1 : "No one says anything "just so" and everything that is being said or written is an expression of the inner self."
Pixie Tickle
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10617
|
Posted - 2015.07.05 21:15:23 -
[20] - Quote
Mike Rothschild wrote:Then you should place some trusted person in position to have this kind of influence ^^
Or keep them securely in your wallet.
As it stands they do nothing but create gaping holes in your Corp for people to leverage over you and that's basically all.
Which is a pity because I think it has potential for fabulous gameplay if the mechanics were developed further.
=]|[=
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Mike Rothschild
Trading MR Inc.
7
|
Posted - 2015.07.05 21:33:14 -
[21] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Mike Rothschild wrote:Then you should place some trusted person in position to have this kind of influence ^^ Or keep them securely in your wallet. As it stands they do nothing but create gaping holes in your Corp for people to leverage over you and that's basically all. Which is a pity because I think it has potential for fabulous gameplay if the mechanics were developed further.
That is precisely what I'm saying through this topic ^^
Rule n°1 : "No one says anything "just so" and everything that is being said or written is an expression of the inner self."
Pixie Tickle
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DaReaper
Net 7
2288
|
Posted - 2015.07.05 21:47:02 -
[22] - Quote
if you want a stock market no one is stopping you form amking one yourself. figure out a way to have ceo's give oyu shares for capital and then figure out a way to have people buy and sell shares, and make your own stock market. no need for ccp to do it
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Mike Rothschild
Trading MR Inc.
7
|
Posted - 2015.07.05 21:53:15 -
[23] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:if you want a stock market no one is stopping you form amking one yourself. figure out a way to have ceo's give oyu shares for capital and then figure out a way to have people buy and sell shares, and make your own stock market. no need for ccp to do it
A stock market on my own would be useless and pointless.
To create something really interesting, economically speaking, we need a big organised market!
Also, if everyone create his own stock market, what would it be? Even worse for sure.
Rule n°1 : "No one says anything "just so" and everything that is being said or written is an expression of the inner self."
Pixie Tickle
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Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
358
|
Posted - 2015.07.05 23:38:15 -
[24] - Quote
Slightly off topic, but shares would be very useful in Dust for planetary conquest corporations. Specifically if there was a system smart enough to assign and recall shares based on deployment activity on a weekly basis, while also paying out dividends from the corp wallet.
Otherwise, some incredibly trustworthy individual has to take it upon himself to distribute the paychecks every week and figure out who deserves what. Highly tedious, and not the source of nearly as much drama as you'd think it would be.
Not how shares are supposed to be used, but hell... it'd work. |
Angelica Dreamstar
Miner's House of ill repute
658
|
Posted - 2015.07.06 13:35:29 -
[25] - Quote
Mike Rothschild wrote:DaReaper wrote:if you want a stock market no one is stopping you form amking one yourself. figure out a way to have ceo's give oyu shares for capital and then figure out a way to have people buy and sell shares, and make your own stock market. no need for ccp to do it A stock market on my own would be useless and pointless. To create something really interesting, economically speaking, we need a big organised market! Also, if everyone create his own stock market, what would it be? Even worse for sure.
Would you like to implement a game wide alternate currency?
Give me a day and I'll let you know if it's doable.
Then we negotiate the terms of the contract and how long it would take to implement.
It's really like doing community work and when you don't see me post I had a day off.
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
32016
|
Posted - 2015.07.06 13:47:07 -
[26] - Quote
Mike, I think you should have Rothschild alts set up shop in different trade hubs.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
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Mike Rothschild
Trading MR Inc.
7
|
Posted - 2015.07.06 14:34:08 -
[27] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Mike, I think you should have Rothschild alts set up shop in different trade hubs.
I'm thinking about it :P but I'm seeking a corporation but I won't continue there as it would be off topic ^^
Rule n°1 : "No one says anything "just so" and everything that is being said or written is an expression of the inner self."
Pixie Tickle
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Angelica Dreamstar
Miner's House of ill repute
661
|
Posted - 2015.07.06 14:39:52 -
[28] - Quote
Mike Rothschild wrote:Rain6637 wrote:Mike, I think you should have Rothschild alts set up shop in different trade hubs. I'm thinking about it :P but I'm seeking a corporation but I won't continue there as it would be off topic ^^
Seeking a corporation for? Jesus, don't tease us!
It's really like doing community work and when you don't see me post I had a day off.
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
1983
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Posted - 2015.07.06 14:55:13 -
[29] - Quote
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:Mike Rothschild wrote:DaReaper wrote:if you want a stock market no one is stopping you form amking one yourself. figure out a way to have ceo's give oyu shares for capital and then figure out a way to have people buy and sell shares, and make your own stock market. no need for ccp to do it A stock market on my own would be useless and pointless. To create something really interesting, economically speaking, we need a big organised market! Also, if everyone create his own stock market, what would it be? Even worse for sure. Would you like to implement a game wide alternate currency? Give me a day and I'll let you know if it's doable. Then we negotiate the terms of the contract and how long it would take to implement.
Will the currency be called boobies?" |
Angelica Dreamstar
Miner's House of ill repute
661
|
Posted - 2015.07.06 15:02:19 -
[30] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Angelica Dreamstar wrote:Mike Rothschild wrote:DaReaper wrote:if you want a stock market no one is stopping you form amking one yourself. figure out a way to have ceo's give oyu shares for capital and then figure out a way to have people buy and sell shares, and make your own stock market. no need for ccp to do it A stock market on my own would be useless and pointless. To create something really interesting, economically speaking, we need a big organised market! Also, if everyone create his own stock market, what would it be? Even worse for sure. Would you like to implement a game wide alternate currency? Give me a day and I'll let you know if it's doable. Then we negotiate the terms of the contract and how long it would take to implement. Will the currency be called boobies?"
Epic boobeecoin of course!
It's really like doing community work and when you don't see me post I had a day off.
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