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Large 425 mm Rails vs. Large Tachyon Beam DPS

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Eltigre	Posted - 2003.11.15 16:15:00 - [1] After having done some analysis to figure out which weapon does more DPS (Dmage Per Second) I have come to the following conclusions : Ship :: Dominix Skills :: roughly 3 million skill pts with most Electronics and Engineering at Level 3 that affect PowerGrid output. Baseline DPS for Tachyon Beam using Large Multifrequency Xtal is 28/20 (Thermal/EM) with baseline damage of 5.09575x (using my current skills and no damage mods) 9.9 sec ROF yields 24.70 DPS. Baseline DPS for 425 mm Rails using Large Antimatter ammo is 24/20 (Thermal/Kinetic) with baseline damage of 3.2975 (using my current skills and no damage mods) 7.13 sec ROF yields 20.34 DPS. So far it looks like I could do way more damage using Tachyons that 425 mm Rails and we all know this. The wrinkle for me at my current skill levels is that each Tachyon takes 4250 PowerGrid and each 425 mm Rail takes 2750 PowerGrid which means for every 2 Tachyons I mount I could mount 3 of the 425 mm Rails but 2 Tachyons do 49.4 DPS while 3 Rails do 61.02 DPS. I think most people are completely overlooking the real advantage to using Rails versus the mighty Tachyons. When I fit my Dominix with 5 Rails I get to use 3 Cap Power Relays which yield +20% Cap recharge rate each so my cap refills faster and 3 Reactor Control Units. If I wanted to use Tachyons thinking they are more powerful than Rails I might be able to fit at most 3 Tachyons but that leaves me with 1 Cap Power Relay and 5 Reactor Control Units. So let's say I try to balance Tachyons with 425 mm Rails to achieve the most DPS possible. With 1 Tachyon and 4 of the 425 mm Rails I end up having to use 4 Reactor Control Units and 2 Cap Power Relays which is okay but the difference in DPS is only 4.32 DPS more than if I were using 5 of the 425 mm Rails with no Tachyons. The other issue to think about is how much cap each weapon takes to fire. Tachyons take 125 cap to fire but 425 mm Rails take only 35. So 5 of the 425 mm Rails will take only 175 cap to fire which is 24.54 cap per second drain when firing all 5 Rails assuming a baseline ROF of 7.13 seconds. Each Tachyon takes 12.62 cap per second when firing with a baseline ROF of 9.9 seconds which means 3 Tachyons would consume 37.87 cap per second. The difference between using 3 Tachyons versus 5 Rails is 54% more cap drain per second using Tachyons so my ship would have to have 3 Cap Power Relays fitted just to balance the cap drain but because Tachyons take 1500 more PowerGrid each to fit I have to use one more Reactor Control Unit than Cap Power Relay to fit a single Tachyon in place of a single 425 mm Rail. Bottom Line :: The Bottom Line for me is that I get more bang for the buck using 5 of the 425 mm Rails because in a fire fight I would get to either use my EM/Thermal shield hardeners longer or use my Microwarpdrive longer to either run or fight longer and perhaps win than I might using only Tachyons since the primary weakness of Tachyons is the high PowerGrid usage and high cap drain. Perhaps after I max out more of my Engineering and Electronic skills I might revisit this issue and conclude using more Tachyons would yield better results but for now with my current skills I'd want to keep my cap recharge rate as high as possible. Of course since I am in a Dominix I'd want to make sure my Drone skills are as high as possible so now I can use 8 Heavy Combat Drones with Level 3 damage but ideally I would want to use 10 Heacy Combat Drones with Level 5 damage. Another aspect to consider is the types of damage each weapon can dish out. Tachyons dish out EM and Thermal but 425 mm Rails using Antimatter dish out Kinetic and Thermal. Most people tend to fit EM Wards and Invulnerability Fields to protect against player pirates who use Tachyons but I'd be happier dishing out 3 types of damage rather than just 2 anyway so mixing Tachyons and 425 mm Rails would seem to me to be a better strategy. I realize the primary weakness of the Dominix is the lack of anti-missile defenses but I have seen NPC's fly right up on my tail to avoid my missiles meanwhile almost taking my shields down with their relatively weak weapons as compared with my weapons. I can score a single shot kill using Torpedos but NPC's in 0.4 space aren't single-shot killing me. Seems to me when going up against a missile boat the strategy would be to get as close as possible, say less than 5k, and then let my drones do my talking which leaves the missile boat the only option of using Torpedos up-close to take down my drones but if I am successful the missile boat will have to splash damage on himself as well as on me. I would love to get some feedback from others out there who use Tachyons exclusively. SWEET routinely sells BPC's in Sing Laison and Essence Regions.
DazWozUK	Posted - 2003.11.15 17:20:00 - [2] I have 5 large ion cannons on my dom. Problems I have though is lack of power & cpu so have to fit 3 reactors and 3 cpu enhancers. [url=http://www.syntax-corp.com] [/url]
Tetsuo	Posted - 2003.11.15 18:22:00 - [3] The main problem with my 435 is the tracking speed. They simply miss too much. The Tachs have 50% better tracking speed But still I love the sound of my 425 blasting my opponent with heavy slugs of antimatter boooom! ---------------------------------- While I see You cannot see While I move You move with me
Ana Khouri	Posted - 2003.11.15 18:42:00 - [4] Edited by: Ana Khouri on 15/11/2003 18:43:57 Not anymore - check the chaos updates. The tach now has only a 20% better tracking. This means, too, if you use them in a megathron with BS skill lvl4 they have the same tracking as a tach. free speech not allowed here
Eltigre	Posted - 2003.11.15 21:07:00 - [5] Quote: Edited by: Ana Khouri on 15/11/2003 18:43:57 Not anymore - check the chaos updates. The tach now has only a 20% better tracking. This means, too, if you use them in a megathron with BS skill lvl4 they have the same tracking as a tach. Wow ! I will be adding more learning time to my Gallente BS skillz - hehe SWEET routinely sells BPC's in Sing Laison and Essence Regions.
ga'ia	Posted - 2003.11.15 21:18:00 - [6] Try get into a Megathron, go 5 425, 2 hvy beam with radio, 1 launcher with whatever, 3 hyb upgrades on low, 4 cap relays then whatever you want on the med. There you have a nice farming setup ;D. __________________________________________________________
Kozak	Posted - 2003.11.16 04:22:00 - [7] Well, the biggest thing that people overlook is the RANGE. I currently get 43K Optimal with 30K falloff with my 425's on a Megathron. My buddy only gets about 20K optimal with his Tachyons on his Apoc. He can do more damage at optimal, but he can't even hit me at 60K, and when he switches to Radio Crystals, his damage is way below the 425's with Plutonium.
Nervar	Posted - 2003.11.16 04:31:00 - [8] Mee thinks your buddy needs to train some gunnery skills -------------------------------------------------> What I look forward to is continued immaturity followed by death.
CobraMac	Posted - 2003.11.16 04:52:00 - [9] Good Post Eltigre, my point exactly, if the nerfs/boosts go ahead as planned, there will be no point in fitting tachs as i have stated time and time again, the hybrids mw and cap/s will allow big ships to fit much more of them then they can fit tachs now and do more damage with them all fitted vs a full loaded tach outfit. Add the fact that the no BS gets a damage mod for the laser (besides the ROF bonus of the Armagedon) and one sees even less reason to fit an energy weapon so close to damage of a single 425 as it will be in next patch IF they keep these nerfs ofcourse, my idea would have been perhaps lower the ROF on the Tach if they want to keep the present nerfs/boosts, or lower the mw/ cap/s on the tachs to match the new changes to the hybrids, hell will freeze over HAHA ;)
DarK	Posted - 2003.11.16 05:16:00 - [10] Amarr ships have more power and more cap aswell as more turret slots. Tach's require more power, more cap, no ammo and do way more damage. Caldari ships have less power, less cap aswell as less turret slots. 425's require less power, do pointless damage, require cap, require ammo. Of course 425's need to do more damage, seeing as Caldari can only use 4 turrets, and we have low power, we are limited to only a few decent guns. I really can't understand why you are comparing 425's with Tachs on a Dominix, I was under the impression that Gallente ships were for Blasters. There is more to comparing things than just their stats.
LLeBRing	Posted - 2003.11.16 05:19:00 - [11] Problem is that this nerf is a direct result of all the baby hybrid users that cry faul cause they can't get a descent loadout going.. hmmm No one is complaining that hybrids get bumped, cause let's face it, they deserve some love but.. If you guys had outfitted your dam mega's and dominix's right the first time you would know that your Hybrids do in fact kick ass when used properly Things to worry about with Tachyons: My bloody cap My bloody cap The fact that my tachyons eat CAP my piece of crap RoF which means what?? I need to run more cap power relays then biomass has made kills Things to worry about with a Hybrid: Getting my damage up Getting my tracking up Both sides have valid points but Hybrid users look at your RoF? Ever fight a good megathron?? they don't hit you for 200+ and 300+, they mostly hit in the 100's.. but they fire a bloody lot and there RoF is awesome, they don't have to worry about cap as much, and can fit more low slots with damage mods... ie tracking and dmg increase.. hmmm To win a fight everyone knows that damage sometimes means garbage. So this is what I say IMHO Tach users have huge cap problems and suffer a lot for there damage Hybrid users have tracking and damage problems but awesome RoF I am not complaining, I just think tachs need to be left alone and hybrids should get a boost.. but if you think your mega is garbage cause you dont' hit for 200's and 300's every shot?? get a freakin grip, its not meant for that btw anyone notice how the projectile users aren't saying a word on this?? hmm i'd like to hit in the 400 's and 900 +'s and use 0 cap too you know :) lol Nuttin but corn bread en chicken for this fella
ga'ia	Posted - 2003.11.16 06:04:00 - [12] Quote: which means what?? I need to run more cap power relays then biomass has made kills lol __________________________________________________________
Minuz1	Posted - 2003.11.16 15:37:00 - [13] Missing in calculations.....dmg resistance of ships... Multifreq's do alot of dmg vs shield's but v little vs armor... Antimatter do avg dmg vs both. I tend to stick with lasers with radio and the bigger proj with fusion ammo vs armor. This lessens the dmg dealt, but also prevents ppl who like to tank to make the weapons useless.... Hybrids and Lasers are both a dual dealing dmg guns but with projectile you can deal all sorts of dmg.....this is one thing you have to consider when dealing with guns. -Win if you can, lose if you must, but always cheat!!!!!
Raven DeBlade	Posted - 2003.11.16 22:53:00 - [14] 425s and Blasters are "bugged" a.t.m, TomB is looking at whats wrong! "To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees" "Any statements made above this line are my persona"
ga'ia	Posted - 2003.11.16 23:03:00 - [15] Quote: 425s and Blasters are "bugged" a.t.m, TomB is looking at whats wrong! Bugged...? __________________________________________________________
PERCYDAMAN	Posted - 2003.11.17 00:42:00 - [16] good discussion people...i own a mega and used med hybrids right up until getting heavy capabilities about the time that hybrids got nerfed so bad, so ive not used the 425s much, hence i used tachs...until this latest cap bug, i could fit 4 tachs and spawn chain large npc's if i was careful. (man i love not having to use ammo) When the hybrid get their needed loving ill prolly go back to them... Until then, I use what I need to.
Raven DeBlade	Posted - 2003.11.17 02:53:00 - [17] GaÝa yes bugged, not working properly, we tested this on chaos and something is wrong in the code! cant say more because i dont know more. :) "To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees" "Any statements made above this line are my persona"
ga'ia	Posted - 2003.11.17 05:15:00 - [18] Quote: GaÝa yes bugged, not working properly, we tested this on chaos and something is wrong in the code! cant say more because i dont know more. :) uhm..ok __________________________________________________________

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