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Lori Toucard
Occupy Jita NOW
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 19:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello my fellow EVE players.
I want to introduce you to my concept, that will make EVE a more fair and enjoyable place for everyone.
1) Mining After trying some mining i noticed that mainly poor players have to mine, this is very unfair. CCP could force anyone to mine a certain amount of ore per month to contribute to the community and pay their fair share. If they refuse to mine their amount of ore, the value x1 will be deducted from their wallet at the end of the month at the first offence. When they dont meet their goals at the second month too (assuming active sub) the value x 2 will be deducted and so on.
What happens with the ISK? We have to form a committee of social justice that will be elected by the players and confirmed by CCP, just like the CSM. The money will be distributed each month between all the players that meet the ore delivery goals and a special point system. You earn points for: 1) Fighting against discrimination and climate change 2) By participating in social justice events This way the fresh and poor players get a real isk boost by proving ore to the community, that we all need.
2) Manufacturing It is horrible to watch how manufacturers get richer and richer each day, while the poor players are suffering. The big guys need to pay their fair share by contributing every 2nd item at of the same kind they manufacture to the community at production cost. The committee of social justice will then use the point system to decide who is the person in need who receives the item at production cost.
3) Trading Jita Traders are the richest of the rich in EVE and they pay nothing back to the community. CCP could easily implement another 5% tax on sales on characters that are flagged as traders (turnover over 1 billion isk per day for more than 30 days total in a 3 month period), just like the current 1% tax. This 5% of every sale will be distributed between all new players and the top 1000 in the social justice points ranking list.
I know all changes i suggest may sound radical on the first read, but please think about it and you will realize that it would turn EVE in a better place for all of us.
Thank you for reading
Mistress of Social Justice |

Salcon Cliff
Aliastra Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 19:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Heh, I assume this is a joke? A sandbox game that forces you to do something you don't want to? hmm...sounds like a winner  |

Jim Hooknose
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
23
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 19:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
+1 to all of the above.
For great justice! |

Riley Moore
Perkone Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 19:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
Damn commies! Need Researched BPO's? Be it drones, ammo, charges, you name it, visit my forum store now! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=445524#post445524 |

Zifrian
Deep Space Innovations
78
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 19:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
No on all ideas (besides there are already taxes in game)
Why? 1 - it's a video game. 2 - refer to item #1
Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour!
|

Kalipoli
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 19:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
I started with the same 5,000 isk as everyone else. No-one forces people to mine and No-one forces someone to manufacture.
This is as close to a free market as you can get, whether you take advantage of a miner who is selling his goods way to cheap or taking it upon yourself to pay what you think is a fair amount for the minerals.
You're version of social justice would be an unnecessary change to eve in favor of short term players versus long term players and would eventually ruin any reason to play Eve.
Plus with isk being taken from wealthier players and redistributing it to more poor players, the poor players have more isk to spend but since there is no longer a realworld time investment the currency loses much of its value and much like a person in real life who wants to spend hundreds of dollars on plex to pad their virtual wallets, the currency becomes expendable and virtually worthless as their is no longer a base of time investment to add value to the currency.
You're version of social justice would destroy the system entirely for anyone to make isk investing only time.
This is not the real world, I don't care if you're Evekids starve or you cant make it to Evework this morning because you're Evecar was reposessed. If you don't want to be a poor miner, hop into a different ship change you skill que and blow some stuff up.
|

Lori Toucard
Occupy Jita NOW
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 19:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Salcon Cliff wrote:Heh, I assume this is a joke? A sandbox game that forces you to do something you don't want to? hmm...sounds like a winner 
No, you are wrong.
Remember when you were a kid in the sandbox? Your mother told you what to do, because she knew what was good for you and what not. The committee of social justice will be like the mother of the eve community, taking care of it and keeping the harm away. Mistress of Social Justice |

Riley Moore
Perkone Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 19:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lori Toucard wrote:Salcon Cliff wrote:Heh, I assume this is a joke? A sandbox game that forces you to do something you don't want to? hmm...sounds like a winner  No, you are wrong. Remember when you were a kid in the sandbox? Your mother told you what to do, because she knew what was good for you and what not. The committee of social justice will be like the mother of the eve community, taking care of it and keeping the harm away.
No offence, but most of us are adults not kids. Secondly, if people are too stupid to climb to the top they shouldn't expect to be at the top.
Take your communistic ideals to Eve China please. Need Researched BPO's? Be it drones, ammo, charges, you name it, visit my forum store now! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=445524#post445524 |

Salcon Cliff
Aliastra Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 19:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
'sandbox' is a term referring to the open possibilities of the game, not referring to some silica content.
I doubt my mom every told me what to do in the sandbox, I am from a generation (or two) before that. I probably finger painted with the cat **** (and learned that it stunk) w/o intervention from adults.
Every toon making lots of isk now made it from a starting position that is the same as every other player - there are no inheritances in the game. Well, other than plex, I suppose, which DOES subsidize the 'poor' player by making the game cheaper and/or providing money to make it better.
|

Lauren Hellfury
Full Pocket Aggro In Vitro.
44
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 20:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
Personally I think it's disgusting the way the little man is always held down in this game. It's not just the mining but it's T1 manufacture as well. There should be some sort of mechanism that prevents you from doing the entry stuff after a certain point.
Say maybe after 6 months you aren't allowed to manufacture any T1 items and must do invention instead. Same with things like POSes as well. After so long you aren't allowed to put one up in high-sec and have to do it in lowsex to give people a chance.
Maybe even have access to the higher security systems restricted based on account age. This would also help to make lowsec and null more popular and could only be good for the game. |

Velicitia
Open Designs
173
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 20:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
Salcon Cliff wrote:'sandbox' is a term referring to the open possibilities of the game, not referring to some silica content.
I doubt my mom every told me what to do in the sandbox, I am from a generation (or two) before that. I probably finger painted with the cat **** (and learned that it stunk) w/o intervention from adults.
Every toon making lots of isk now made it from a starting position that is the same as every other player - there are no inheritances in the game. Well, other than plex, I suppose, which DOES subsidize the 'poor' player by making the game cheaper and/or providing money to make it better.
WTT cat **** for silica... 
@Lauren -- If you don't like the way that the older players are running things ... maybe find a few to work WITH, and get some additional benefits in the process... |

Buruk Utama
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
59
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 21:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
I bought 5 of those new implants on day 1 @ 15-30m apiece and then sold them for very handsome profits a few days later. Did I do social injustice for not returning more profits to the people who didn't value them properly?
|

Percival Gates
State War Academy Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 22:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
YEAH! EAT THE RICH!
I propose that every player that has over 2b in isk + assets be taxed 10%. The proceeds will go into a welfare fund that will be distributed to the poor players. After all, the poor miners work WAY harder than the greedy traders who just manipulate markets and laugh at the poor. It's not fair that they can do that. 
Also, the same rich ppl should be forced to grant loans to the poor who can't ever hope to pay back the loan. Also, the loan should be very low interest, or maybe even interest free.
For miners, we can form a miner union that will boycott and refuse to work unless CCP increases the value of tritanium. For a small fee of 50m per month, you can join my union. Please disregard the fact that I will be filthy rich from union dues.
YAY POOR FTW |

Jack Traynor
One More Corp
4
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 22:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
Lori Toucard wrote:Hello my fellow EVE players.
I want to introduce you to my concept, that will make EVE a more fair and enjoyable place for everyone.
Normally I wouldn't bother opening a thread with socialist crap in the subject, but I was tempted...
... and I stopped after the above sentence. "More fair"? Sorry, but this ain't Hello Kitty Online.
Where's the "negative karma" button? |

Zifrian
Deep Space Innovations
78
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 22:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
OP is T R O L L I N G you all.
Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour!
|

Illectroculus Defined
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
26
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 22:36:00 -
[16] - Quote
If you're a capsuleer, you're already in the 1%.
Anyway obvious troll is obvious, Eve is not a real economic system. However is you want to see Keynsian economics at work, look at the successful 0.0 alliances, they all have extensive welfare programs which help the poorer members to contribute more. Space communism has proven to be quite successful. |

sitar seaton
State War Academy Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 22:58:00 -
[17] - Quote
barack are you playing again???? |

Beaches
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 23:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
In addition to this we should limit the use of MWD in favor of Afterburners, the reasons behind this are
A) It's a matter of public health and safety and for the population's own good, these high speeds are dangerous and unnecessary
B) MWD pump 10x the amount of pollution into space which is fragile as it is
I'd also like to draw attention tothe a public health danger in PI, it is in my understanding that some of the consumer products being produced consist of 1.5x the average caloric daily requirements for the average pod pilot. This is not only unhealthy but our bods are only so big and if people get to big they will be uncomfortable. So therefor a 10% export tax should be added to PI to stem this madness. |

Xearal
SOL Industries Black Thorne Alliance
63
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 01:54:00 -
[19] - Quote
I think the proper reply would be:
Cool Story bro...
|

Sassaniak
Rayvek Laboratories
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 02:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
OCCUPY SANDBOX! ...............................................................................
Sometimes, you all make me very disappointed. |

Marcus Henik
Dark Nebula Academy O X I D E
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 03:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
Troll score 7/10. |

Skorpynekomimi
E.A.D Alliance Omega Vector
13
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 07:17:00 -
[22] - Quote
Chores? In my EVE?
Do not want. This isn't ******* farmville. I want the freedom to be able to goof off EVE and grind skyrim for a few weeks. |

Lori Toucard
Occupy Jita NOW
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 08:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
Skorpynekomimi wrote:Chores? In my EVE?
Do not want. This isn't ******* farmville. I want the freedom to be able to goof off EVE and grind skyrim for a few weeks.
The new and better system of social justice will make sure that you still enjoy the freedom of not mining the ore and thinking only about yourself. But on the other side it will deduct a few ISK from your wallet for every month you chose to be an egoist. This way you help new players out who are less fortunate and greedy than you. They have to mine very hard, are oppressed by suicide gankers and greedy traders and industrialists who keep the prices of minerals down and make the big cash on the back of those poor people. Only a heartless person could go playing skyrim without thinking about this problems.
Mistress of Social Justice |

Arcan Winter
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 09:17:00 -
[24] - Quote
Well make it fair to all, if you have the isk (if you sell oll you have) to buy a Hulk. When you should at least once a week engage an a PvP fight in a ship worth at least 50m. Afte all we need to think on all those poor PvP that cant find targets in low/null....if a few 100k mpre ships should be in PvP each mounth they should be happy too.
About poor miners, blame the drone regions in null and all bot miners that mine for 20+h aday but are only at teh keyboard 5 min a day |

Chokichi Ozuwara
Lucky Dragon Convenience
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 09:37:00 -
[25] - Quote
The Caldari won't stand for this.
Just sayin... |

Keltaris Cesaille
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 09:46:00 -
[26] - Quote
OCCUPY JITA 4-4 |

Anshio Tamark
Avitus Lugus
44
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 09:58:00 -
[27] - Quote
The short version: No.
The less short version: That would mean CCP would violate their own EULA, so no.
The long version: No. By forcing people to participate in activities they do not enjoy, you deprive them of their enjoyment of the game, which is in direct violation with the EULA. Anyone who has actually been insane or bored enough to read it (I was both) would know that it outright says that doing anything to any other player, which deprives them of enjoyment of the game, is a bannable offense. And yet we have suicide ganking and piracy...
Another detail you probably didn't take into consideration is that if everyone had to mine, the market would die a horrible, quick and painful death (that's not me being dramatic. It's true). On one hand, if all the ore mined goes straight into the market, the prices would drop to something equal to the price of sand in Sahara, and if all the extra ore was taxed away, we would see the prices sky-rocket in just a matter of days, due to the belts being emptied faster yet the amount of ore on the market would remain the same. So for all intents and purposes, this would ruin the game for the majority of the player-base. Just saying.
Furthermore, as Arcan Winter says, this would mean that everyone would be forced to PVP once a week. What about those who can't PVP? There are players who don't have the skills for PVP, and then there are players with maxed out skills for several types of ships and PVP-gear. How would those with no PVP-skills stand a chance if they were to be forced into PVP every week? Easy. They wouldn't. And they would leave.
If you really want this, I suggest you go find a null-sec alliance with mandatory Ops. It wouldn't ruin the game for the rest of the player-base, and it certainly won't kill the market either, plus you get the mandatory activities you want. |

Velicitia
Open Designs
175
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 11:10:00 -
[28] - Quote
Anshio -- IIRC, the EULA is a little more specific than "deprives someone of enjoyment" ... since that would probably invalidate everyone from issuing wardecs (which are completely valid), or scamming, or the other stuff you mentioned.
Pretty much it boils down to "if what you're doing gets petitioned, you're gonna have a problem" ... now obviously, if you're a merc and are being paid to wardec every corp that SomeGuy2001 joins because he stole from IndustryCorporation234541... well, that's cool. |

Joshua Aivoras
Tech IV Industries Pandorum Invictus
34
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 12:05:00 -
[29] - Quote
Lori Toucard wrote:Hello my fellow EVE players.
I want to introduce you to my concept, that will make EVE a more fair and enjoyable place for everyone.
1) Mining After trying some mining i noticed that mainly poor players have to mine, this is very unfair. CCP could force anyone to mine a certain amount of ore per month to contribute to the community and pay their fair share. If they refuse to mine their amount of ore, the value x1 will be deducted from their wallet at the end of the month at the first offence. When they dont meet their goals at the second month too (assuming active sub) the value x 2 will be deducted and so on.
What happens with the ISK? We have to form a committee of social justice that will be elected by the players and confirmed by CCP, just like the CSM. The money will be distributed each month between all the players that meet the ore delivery goals and a special point system. You earn points for: 1) Fighting against discrimination and climate change 2) By participating in social justice events This way the fresh and poor players get a real isk boost by proving ore to the community, that we all need.
2) Manufacturing It is horrible to watch how manufacturers get richer and richer each day, while the poor players are suffering. The big guys need to pay their fair share by contributing every 2nd item at of the same kind they manufacture to the community at production cost. The committee of social justice will then use the point system to decide who is the person in need who receives the item at production cost.
3) Trading Jita Traders are the richest of the rich in EVE and they pay nothing back to the community. CCP could easily implement another 5% tax on sales on characters that are flagged as traders (turnover over 1 billion isk per day for more than 30 days total in a 3 month period), just like the current 1% tax. This 5% of every sale will be distributed between all new players and the top 1000 in the social justice points ranking list.
I know all changes i suggest may sound radical on the first read, but please think about it and you will realize that it would turn EVE in a better place for all of us.
Thank you for reading
1) Nobody is forced to mine anything, and that should remain unchanged. If you need minerals just buy them from the market.
2) If your not sporting an extra chromosome, manufacturing is the second easiest way to make ISK, next to station-trading.
3) Traders actually provide liquidity to the economy
Please stop giving the PvP'ers more reasons to call us Carebears, thanks.
|

Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 13:50:00 -
[30] - Quote
In Soviet EvE, 'roid mines you. |

Lady Ayeipsia
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Cascade Imminent
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 14:33:00 -
[31] - Quote
To the one suggesting no production of t1 items after 6 months...
Who will make the battlecruisers and battleships? Those are t1 and require a large amount of isk for the blueprint. What if the prototype cloaking device which takes a fair bit of skills to research or copy, the same with mobile warp disruptors or pos mods?
Still, this would kill all capital ships at least. They are all t1 and... Well... Hmmm... Maybe this idea has some merit.... Oh wait, someday I want to fly a carrier, so no. |

Jurinak
Galcon Gamma
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 15:14:00 -
[32] - Quote
And everyone who dont agree will sent to the Gulag
Viva la Revolution! Smash the Capitalist. All Force to the People
HOHOHO Chi MINH!!!!!! |

GreasyCarl Semah
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 15:34:00 -
[33] - Quote
I can't believe that someone would speak out against my raping and pillaging of the peasantry. What is the world coming to when a well to do gentle man can't exploit his fellow pod pilots for a handsome profit? Poppycock I say! |

Avril Tennison
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 16:25:00 -
[34] - Quote
I completely agree. There are certainly rich players (more t han 2 billion isk) that SHOULD to pay their fair share to help new poor players.
Here in America Obama wants over 50% tax for the rich so something like this in game seems reasonable.
+1 this idea |

Lady Ayeipsia
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Cascade Imminent
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 16:31:00 -
[35] - Quote
Avril Tennison wrote:I completely agree. There are certainly rich players (more t han 2 billion isk) that SHOULD to pay their fair share to help new poor players.
Here in America Obama wants over 50% tax for the rich so something like this in game seems reasonable.
+1 this idea
You are way off. Gains from investment are taxed at a lower rate than income. Obama wants income from investment to be taxed at the same rate as income from working.
In eve terms this would be similar to wanting to add a tax on datacore purchased from an agent comparable to the tax rate on say killing a rat with a bounty. |

Kaomi Zorbaz
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 20:06:00 -
[36] - Quote
Please wont anybody think of the miners? |

Invictra Atreides
Toward the Terra
15
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 20:18:00 -
[37] - Quote
for justice |

Lori Toucard
Occupy Jita NOW
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 20:25:00 -
[38] - Quote
Avril Tennison wrote:I completely agree. There are certainly rich players (more than 2 billion isk) that SHOULD to pay their fair share to help new poor players.
Here in America Obama wants over 50% tax for the rich so something like this in game seems reasonable.
+1 this idea
There need to be more good people like you who still have a heart and dont listen to the propaganda we are told all day.
Our Empires will go down in flames if we dont learn to value the work of the struggling poor man. Yesterday a trader made 5 billion isk typing in a few numbers in orders in Jita. This cant be fair. A Miner mining in a Bestower for 1 million isk per hour needs to work 5,000 hours or 500 days @10 hours per day if he wants to earn the same amount, this is unacceptable, and everyone knows this. If the trader pays 50% (2.5b) isk tax on his profits and the miner pays 5 million isk tax on his 10m earning for the day, we can just pool the money and share it equally. This way the trader will still have 2.5 billion isk which is more than he needs, and the miner can be rich too, getting the other 2.5b isk. The solutions are there, open your eyes people. Lets do it. We can do it together.
Mistress of Social Justice |

Jurinak
Galcon Gamma
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 13:12:00 -
[39] - Quote
Lori Toucard wrote:[quote=Avril Tennison] The solutions are there, open your eyes people. Lets do it. We can do it together.
First we should ask if it is the will of god.
Dont you think the lord will give the miner some ideas to make much more money if he want? And if we give the miner the money and act against the will of god, isnt it the path of the devil??
After all i dont think its a good idea to follow the path of the devil *burns his red flag* |

Velicitia
Open Designs
180
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 14:19:00 -
[40] - Quote
Lori Toucard wrote:Avril Tennison wrote:I completely agree. There are certainly rich players (more than 2 billion isk) that SHOULD to pay their fair share to help new poor players.
Here in America Obama wants over 50% tax for the rich so something like this in game seems reasonable.
+1 this idea There need to be more good people like you who still have a heart and dont listen to the propaganda we are told all day. Our Empires will go down in flames if we dont learn to value the work of the struggling poor man. Yesterday a trader made 5 billion isk typing in a few numbers in orders in Jita. This cant be fair. A Miner mining in a Bestower for 1 million isk per hour needs to work 5,000 hours or 500 days @10 hours per day if he wants to earn the same amount, this is unacceptable, and everyone knows this. If the trader pays 50% (2.5b) isk tax on his profits and the miner pays 5 million isk tax on his 10m earning for the day, we can just pool the money and share it equally. This way the trader will still have 2.5 billion isk which is more than he needs, and the miner can be rich too, getting the other 2.5b isk. The solutions are there, open your eyes people. Lets do it. We can do it together.
so get into a corp and do stuff like this. |

Samillian
Trojan Trolls Controlled Chaos
49
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 14:53:00 -
[41] - Quote
"Fairness"
"Social Justice"
What are these strange and alien concepts of which you speak?
More importantly how do I exploit them for maximum financial gain. |

Velicitia
Open Designs
180
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 15:25:00 -
[42] - Quote
Samillian wrote:"Fairness"
"Social Justice"
What are these strange and alien concepts of which you speak?
More importantly how do I exploit them for maximum financial gain.
Oracle? |

Kaomi Zorbaz
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 20:23:00 -
[43] - Quote
Samillian wrote:"Fairness"
"Social Justice"
What are these strange and alien concepts of which you speak?
More importantly how do I exploit them for maximum financial gain.
These were topics brought up in the 20th and 21st centuries on Earth. We went through the wormhole and left those silly idea's there. I suspect if we were to to open the wormhole back to our origins on Earth. We would find it in a quagmire of social justice and fairness. Unable to do much of anything. I'd like our scientists to work on opening up that wormhole again so we could go back to conqueor and exploit them. |

Taebris
Causality Crew LTD Angel Causalities Demolition Crew
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 22:21:00 -
[44] - Quote
Poor in Eve? LOL And what does fresh mean??? Don't be getting fresh with me buddy!
I guess poor depends on your perspective! Compared to someone who has billions of isk, sure I'm poor, but am I poor if I have hundreds of millions of isk?
When I started Eve as a new player CCP was kind enough to give me 5,000 isk and send me on my way. Are there players nowadays who don't get such a luxurious sending off?
And to the rest of the OP.. uhm no! This sounds like your typical welfare system for those who are to lazy to do it their f*****g selves. |

SoSiouxMe
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 22:34:00 -
[45] - Quote
Lori Toucard wrote:Hello my fellow EVE players.
{trimmed for lack of meaningful content}
Thank you for reading
never thought I'd say this but take your socialist crap and go find another game.
|

Justin Credulent
Perkone Caldari State
94
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 23:32:00 -
[46] - Quote
Quote:Heh, I assume this is a joke? A sandbox game that forces you to do something you don't want to? hmm...sounds like a winner
hello. ive been wardec'd for 2 months. Null-Sec needs to HTFU and stop crying to CCP. If null-sec wants PvP, they need to stop being carebears and start fighting eachother - after years of bot-mining, they have the ships! |
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