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MrRookie
Caldari
Dark and Light inc.
D-L
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Posted - 2006.12.01 12:00:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: MrRookie
Would be nice to see some feedback from mission runners. Obviously they will kill a lot more NPCs than 0.0 raters.
my feedback is from mission running
Sorry couldn't tell
Have I agree the ammount of NPCs it takes to build a rig seems silly. I don't know what the inentions the devs have regarding the effort to build a rig but 1000 NPC is no joke. I have done my part of mission running and looting and I can already tell, I'm not getting a rig anytime soon...
*guy being attacked by a pirat in a complex
Originally by: Noluck Ned
*Notify* Concord is on their way to help you, just hang in there, they are waiting for the gatekeeper to respawn
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Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
Babylon Project
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Posted - 2006.12.01 12:21:00 -
[32]
Well it is taking a long time yes..
I've now had lvl 3 mishes giving on average 25 salvage,
I've now had lvl 4 mishes giving on average 65 salvage
Using salvage 3, and a typhoon with 4x tractor 4x salvager setup to loot+salvage
I liked the idea of using a destroyer, but if you also need to loot.. 1500m^3 is kinda needed for lvl 4...
Structure wrecks have so far not given any salvage (but they do sometimes spawn empty so wtf), Rogue drone wrecks have so far not given any salvage (rogue drone mishes are reall really crap now, you would only do them for LP and minerals anyways and now the minerals are very annoying to loot  )
It takes quite a while to loot&salvage a big mish, especially since (more often when using AB, going 410m/s, so still slower than tractor beam) wrecks get tangled up a lot, meaning they drop out of salvager range etc etc.
I would prefer a boost in salvage drop chances and amounts, Rigs should indeed be rather special .. but they way things are going now I will just skip producing tech I apart from a few salvage rigs and will try to invent tech 2
- All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me
- Pure drone user... give us a mini carrier and faction Typhoon and Dominix please |
Zar Dim
Minmatar
Anus Horriblis
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Posted - 2006.12.01 12:27:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Keitaro Baka
I've now had lvl 4 mishes giving on average 65 salvage
That's not strictly true. There are fair number of missions which won't produce any rigs at all, mercs or drones.
Then there are several missions which won't drop even 10 rigs, out of the head Duo of Death or Angel Spies.
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JeanPierre
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Posted - 2006.12.01 12:34:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Commander Nikolas
Since Kali we have been in 0.0 NPCing pretty heavily trying to get a rig built. We immediatly purchased all the rigs BPOs, Salvager BPOs, etc...
After 2 days of this I have some information I would like to share. Basically here are our drop rates:
Brookka (officer spawn): 1 Rare Componant
True Sansha Battleship: 0 Componants
Normal NPC ships: 1 Componant per 10 wrecks
Player Ships: 1 Componant per ship (T1/T2/Class dosen't seem to matter so far)
After 2 days of hard work from about 15 people we have roughly 200 componants. Not even half a rig worth, worse yet the drop rates varries per componant so we are already well aware we are even further from actually building a rig.
The individual componants seem to be popping up on market for roughly 1mil - 2mil per componant. Which seems pretty reasonable given the amount of time it takes to get them (if you were just killing the NPCs in the next belt instead of spending 10 minutes finding the lone componant in the belt you just killed you would make more!).
The bad news, rigs take between 300-600 componants to build per rig. Which means a *rough market price* of 450mil - 900mil.
Alot of us were really looking forward to having the chance to play with rigs... but it has become clear these will be a faction battleship & capital ship only module because of price.
You gotta wonder too. If the intent was for rigs to be capital only ship useable, why do they have rig slots on T1 frigs?
Hopefully this is the fine tuning phase, where CCP devs say "oh, crap, set the salvage drop rate too low, our bad" or something. Even maxxed out skills and a salvage rig would barely put a dent in those numbers I'd think. Ok, so now it's 2 out of 10 that you get something. Wee.
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ChrisFish
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Posted - 2006.12.01 14:49:00 -
[35]
I've scanned out people's missions and waited for them to leave/turn in the mission leaving all their wrecks.
When I find someone doing a level 4, I usually get 40-60 salvaged items. I put them on the market for 100k a piece. They sell.
Time will settle this out. It's waaay too early to make the call on it yet.
I'm n ur mishun salvagin ur lewt. |
Alowishus
Shadow Company
Alektorophobia
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Posted - 2006.12.01 15:23:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Commander Nikolas
a *rough market price* of 450mil - 900mil.
Can't wait to get a few of these babies on my Bantam.
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RopeADope
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2006.12.01 15:43:00 -
[37]
Lmao....you whiners.
God forbid CCP put something challenging in the game...again. You guys forget what it was like to work your butt off mining and mission running for that first cruiser or BS. When isk was hard to come by.....
I'm glad they are hard to make, and hard to come by. FINALLY....something to work towards....again.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2006.12.01 15:53:00 -
[38]
Originally by: RopeADope
Lmao....you whiners.
God forbid CCP put something challenging in the game...again. You guys forget what it was like to work your butt off mining and mission running for that first cruiser or BS. When isk was hard to come by.....
I'm glad they are hard to make, and hard to come by. FINALLY....something to work towards....again.
Are one of those people who has confused tedious and boring with challenging?
Any time new game content is 90% watching a bar move there is a problem with design.
If rogs must be rare fine so be it. But in that case why make use spend so much time bored as we try to get them?
Let us salavage faster so we can spend the grind killing rats at least rather than watching a bar.
Wherever you went - here you are.
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Bazman
Caldari
Shinra
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.12.01 16:05:00 -
[39]
Originally by: slothe
i think its too early to whinge about rigs like this, we need to see how it pans out.
and dare i say it -rigs, like t2 ships, should be rare.
Rigs should *not* be like T2 ships. Whats the point of them if only a few people can dabble with them? Here was CCP touting how rigs will be a major feature of Revelations and when it finally hits it takes hundreds of man hours to produce a single T1 rig. lol.
It is too early to whine, but the rig system *must* be improved, even at this early stage you can see the major problems with it. Hopefully CCP will act on it quickly this time.
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OMG READ TUXFORD!!!1 |
Alowishus
Shadow Company
Alektorophobia
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Posted - 2006.12.01 16:12:00 -
[40]
If rigs aren't on the market at reasonable prices by next Tuesday then something is wrong. Keep in mind that even a ship like a Bantam has rig slots, are we trying to say, "hey, if you have a Bantam you don't get to use rigs because they cost 900 million isk." Why put rig slots on anything less than a Dread? No, rigs need to be between 100k and a million isk. Otherwise they'll just be another toy for the ultra-rich, like Faction BS and Estamal's [insert module]. LAME.
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kessah
Caldari
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.12.01 16:17:00 -
[41]
i personally thought salvaging wrecks was more for the pvp side of things. Killing other players would yeild more "components" imho this should be the case.
--------------------------------------------------------
Forever Pirate 2
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Malena
Perpetual Dawn
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Posted - 2006.12.01 16:19:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Malena on 01/12/2006 16:21:19
Originally by: Xenny Lee
Well for one,
A)Its new and still being looked at... (thinking of lowering the prereqs to getting the salvage skill)
How do you know this? And once again, are they going to say "screw you" to the folks who have been training this skill just to be able to salvage? I don't mean the folks who already had survey at 5 for other reasons before revelations, but who have only trained it since then to be able to salvage? As a suggestion to help this: Make the salvager require survey 4, but give survey skill a bonus of 1% reduction in salvager cycle time so that those who have survey at 5 have something to show for their time invested
edit: Another option: can we get named salvager modules that have reduced cycle time, and have them be droppable items? The loot tables are STILL screwed up...so what is a couple more items?
Originally by: Xenny Lee
B) What skill lvl of Salvaging was this at?
C) Their are rigs that would improve your salvaging encouraging that you actually have a salvage ship and not just fit a salvage mod on your favorite ratting ship.
and lastly 200 components of mixed types is enough for alot of the rigs.
True, there are rigs to improve salvage chances, but if you can't get enough salvage to build those rigs in the first place, then what is the point? Who, besides a collector or uber rich guy with nothing else to spend it on (if one of you is reading this, just send it to me instead please!) is going to spend 350 mil (just a ballpark figure given the component costs of salvage tackle) to upgrade a ship that makes you cringe when you think about the tediousness of using it. Salvaging was supposed to be a mini-profession, not a multiple million skillpoint and half billion isk investment to make viable. Mining is a full fledged profession with better support, options and a hell of a lot less tedious than salvaging. And it is pretty sad to say something is MORE tedious than mining, I must say.
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Murukan
Minmatar
The Priory
Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2006.12.01 16:25:00 -
[43]
Originally by: slothe
i think its too early to whinge about rigs like this, we need to see how it pans out.
and dare i say it -rigs, like t2 ships, should be rare.
I heavily disagree with that statement. Rigs should not be like t2 ships, if that were the case what is the point of putting three rig slots on t1 ships? I think t1 rigs should at most cost like 1mil.
Rigs should be another way of adding additional setups, they should allow us to diversify our setups even more. They should NOT be another item reserved for those who have untold billions cause they either got an easy mode t2 bpo to print isk or because they have been around for a long time.
Manlove by Zaphod Jones
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Trojanman190
Caldari
Entropy Tech.
Blood Raiders Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.01 16:27:00 -
[44]
Its been said before, but this totally needs time to pan out.
CCP has already admitted they made a few mistakes in this patch. For example, barges currently cannot be invented to T2 barges. CCP admitted that this was accidentally left out and is being fixed. It is reasonable to assume that CCP is still working on a few issues that rigs have.
Two easy options are:
1.) Lower build requirements of rigs.
2.) Increase drop rates of rigs.
I'm not gona start complaining unless things havent changed a month from now.
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Malena
Perpetual Dawn
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Posted - 2006.12.01 16:38:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Trojanman190
Its been said before, but this totally needs time to pan out.
CCP has already admitted they made a few mistakes in this patch. For example, barges currently cannot be invented to T2 barges. CCP admitted that this was accidentally left out and is being fixed. It is reasonable to assume that CCP is still working on a few issues that rigs have.
Two easy options are:
1.) Lower build requirements of rigs.
2.) Increase drop rates of rigs.
I'm not gona start complaining unless things havent changed a month from now.
Where have you read this? I check the known issues page every day and don't see anything about this. I realize it isn't updated all that often, but still... I wouldn't be complaining about it if I knew they were moving on it. I understand completely there are major issues that have to be resolved...but simply stepping up and dev blogging about issues known about would solve a lot of problems with this. I can be patient if I know there is resolution coming. But if I am being ignored or don't know if I am being heard, I am going to speak up. I realize that voice volume (number of posts) should not be an indicator of the problem or an indicator of how badly it shoudl be fixed, but for an example... I have not seen a single post, much less thread, saying how great salvaging is in its current form. Does CCP understand that the current incarnation sucks? Do they want our input about how to solve it, or have they worked out a solution and are now coding an implementation for said solution? Just a bit of a clue would go a long ways. I don't even want a reply in a thread, cause that frequently gets lost...a blog or a closed sticky or an updated known issues page would be great.
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Jacob Majestic
ISS Navy Task Force
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.01 17:04:00 -
[46]
- Build requirements for rigs should be multiplied by 10.
- Space requirements for rig components should be reduced by 10.
- All wrecks should drop components.
- The number of components salvaged should vary with the pilot's salvaging skill and the quality of the salvager (named salvager, T2 salvager, etc.)
I think this addresses all of our current concerns.
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Shamis Orzoz
Sniggerdly
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Posted - 2006.12.01 17:13:00 -
[47]
I think rigs should be expensive.
Whatever they do, they better maintain that Player ships that are salvaged generate more than npc's. But they also need to make sure that the rig they generate is worth less than the build cost of the ship...
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Commander Nikolas
Gallente
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Sani Khal'Vecna
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Posted - 2006.12.02 22:54:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
I think rigs should be expensive.
Whatever they do, they better maintain that Player ships that are salvaged generate more than npc's. But they also need to make sure that the rig they generate is worth less than the build cost of the ship...
An update and response to Shamis:
CCP appears to have applied a small fix. The NPC rats are now droping rigs in roughly the amount the lvl 4 mission runners who posted this thread have described.
Our stock pile has gone from 200 componants to 600 in just a day and a half. We are still very far away from having the right componants to build a rig.
To Shamis: We have now had the opportunity to Salvage a much larger number of play ships now, including many T2 ships. Player ships rarely if ever drop salvage, when they do it is usually "metal scraps" which is a worthless componant.
NPCing in 0.0 and lvl 4's in Jita seem to be the best to get Salvage.
I will continue to keep an eye on this thread but honestly am a little ****ed off at this point. It isn't fun having to hold a stargate for 20 minutes in a hostiles home system (because player wrecks take an eternity to salvage) and the only wreck leaving ANY componants was a T1 frigate, despite there being T2 frigs and HAC wrecks.
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HankMurphy
Pelennor Swarm
Eternal Rangers of Terror
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Posted - 2006.12.02 23:02:00 -
[49]
Originally by: RopeADope
Lmao....you whiners.
God forbid CCP put something challenging in the game...again. You guys forget what it was like to work your butt off mining and mission running for that first cruiser or BS. When isk was hard to come by.....
I'm glad they are hard to make, and hard to come by. FINALLY....something to work towards....again.
Amen
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Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
Babylon Project
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Posted - 2006.12.03 00:35:00 -
[50]
atm all that's giving me salvage is salvaging other peoples mishes.. a lot of people don't want the hassle of looting with wrecks anymore and the loot drops are horrible..
they better sell for 350 mil cos atm you're btter off just mass doing lvl 4's and screwing the loot
anyone notice increased lag in mission systems? could it possibly be because 80% is skipping looting and there are extravaganzas of blinking wrecks on the server?
/me goes back to probe out some more mishes
- All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me
- Pure drone user... give us a mini carrier and faction Typhoon and Dominix please |
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Dra0cht
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Posted - 2006.12.03 02:47:00 -
[51]
If you go NPCing in 0.0, and farm for example a triple Gurista Usurper spawn, you'll get on average 8-10 per hour, each worth 1.8mil (?). They drop on average 1 arbalest cruise/siege launcher every 3rd or 4th Usurper, each worth 5-6mil. Its pretty much a certainty. A well setup BS will have absolutely no trouble doing this, and its only the patience/time available to the player how much isk they make.
For salvaging to work, from the point of view of the salvager, rig builder AND most importantly, the consumer, there needs to be way better drops of components, and a very large supply to ensure that not only the richest 1% of players can benefit.
T2 rigs may be 5-10 times more expensive than T1, which will of course safisfy the 'I'm uber and got 50mil SP and will not feel nearly so special and privilaged if everyone can use rigs' crowd. I could care less about your concerns. The real benefits of rigs is variety and highly customised ship loadouts, and these benefits belong to the entire playerbase of EVE.
Give it some more time, let the DEVs monitor whats going on, and let them make some gradual changes to better all our gaming experiences. I hope that everyone will have access to T1 rigs at reasonable prices, and rigs become an everyday part of ship loadouts. More component drops, and less build requirements will go a long way to making this happen.
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