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Gallente Blasters; A Dear Tuxford Special

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Pinky Denmark	Posted - 2006.12.01 09:53:00 - [31] Edited by: Pinky Denmark on 01/12/2006 09:53:14 T2 ammo is and have always supposed to be situational better than T1 (with T2 guns using T1 ammunition was doing a bit more damage than T1 guns due to spec skills) - If he managed to orbit you with a big transversal (for a BS) a T2 ammo with a tracking nerf is definately not very usefull and you should consider using antimatter. How fast was he flying and did he hit you? Pinky
DirtyHarry Caldari Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.01 10:06:00 - [32] T2 ammo is fine BSvsBS and im 90% sure it would be fine vs a cruiser/battlecruiser sized ship, if not use AM. Also don't claim you shouldn't use AM, the T2 are specialised ammo types that don't suit every situation. ps: I'm speced in railthron/bthron, so don't give me "zomg stfu insert other race user" Havocide - DirtyHarryF-E Homepage F-E Killboard
skillbuyer	Posted - 2006.12.01 10:06:00 - [33] Originally by: Izo Azlion I had a corp mate in a Myrmidon webbed and orbiting my Megathron at around 800m What? You cannot hit a target at 800 meters with L size turrets? Hmmmmmmm. Maybe that is very much intended? L Neutron Blaster II: 0.0433 rad/s Assuming BS 4, Motion Prediction 4: 0.0433 * 1.2 * 1.2 = 0,062352 Further assuming two tech 2 tracking comps without stacking nerf, as a placeholder for the actual combination of faction enhancers and comps you probably run: 0,062352 * 1.3 * 1.3 = 0,10537488... oh, let's round to 0.11 in your favor. Now load up the turret tracking guide here and input: -standard battlecruiser sig radius of 285 for your target (or the Myrmidon's actual number, I forgot) -a transversal speed of 50 m/s for a well-fitted but webbed AB Myrmidon orbiting you then, stat out 4 weapons: -turret signature resolution of 400 for all 4 -15000m optimal, 15000m falloff for all 4 (the actual numbers are irrelevant, but if you wish you can adjust for range through ammo and skills) -tracking of 1) 0.11, 2) 0.0825 3) 0.055 4) 0.0275, representing 100% down to 25% And then take a look at what this gives you at under 1 km. You may be in for a surprise.
velocoraptor Gallente Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.01 10:06:00 - [34] Yes, now T2 ammo is very situational and I would necessarilly say this is bad. However, it IS bad that you have A LOT of training to do to be able to use it. If I started now I would definatelly not train for T2 large blasters/rails. On the other hand T2 cruises/torps are much easier to train, so....
Flitz Farseeker Gallente Eve guardians	Posted - 2006.12.01 10:08:00 - [35] Simple solution: use a couple of medium or light blasters or drones for those small targets that your large guns can't hit. I mainly mission, so I typically stick a pair of light guns on my (battle)cruisers just to deal with the wee guys. For PVP, you probably want to stick with the big guns, but then you need to take along some support ships (cruisers, frigs).
kill0rbunny Caldari Chimera Intelligence Agency	Posted - 2006.12.01 10:27:00 - [36] Edited by: kill0rbunny on 01/12/2006 10:27:27 OP sounds to me like wuaaaaaah whine whine whine, they stole my I win button, no I have to think before i activate my modules and that's completely unfair, because lack the ability to do so. Omg, grow up. Every single noob pirate has a megathron in his hangar, why are you thinking that is so? Maybe because blasters were a little overpowered and needed nerf. Nuff said. EVE-+NLINE Supporter of T+TALHELLDEATH
Monoklas	Posted - 2006.12.01 10:57:00 - [37] All i can say is lol, you want to try something that doesnt hit anything? Try a Mega Pulse at that range. Its laughable.
Izo Azlion Veto.	Posted - 2006.12.01 11:29:00 - [38] Edited by: Izo Azlion on 01/12/2006 11:30:35 Originally by: Ituralde Battleship blasters track better than focused medium beams. Quit your complaining about your Megathron tracking and fit a web. I have a web. Thats why I mentioned that the Myrmidon with an Afterburner webbed at a 800m range could out dodge my Void L Ion II's. Read the post. Originally by: cy4n1d3 stfu and use dual webs and track comps, or t1 ammo. Dual web = No scramble, same with a Tracking comp. And even the 30% to tracking makes little difference. Plus a small implant to tracking too. Edit: With BS 4. Originally by: kill0rbunny Edited by: kill0rbunny on 01/12/2006 10:27:27 OP sounds to me like wuaaaaaah whine whine whine, they stole my I win button, no I have to think before i activate my modules and that's completely unfair, because lack the ability to do so. Omg, grow up. Every single noob pirate has a megathron in his hangar, why are you thinking that is so? Maybe because blasters were a little overpowered and needed nerf. Nuff said. This is exactly the type of post I asked, or stated, for people not to post. If you dont have anything nice to say, dont bother saying it. Your not being constructive at all, its just a waste of bandwidth. --- But as I say, on a simple base fact, why would any race make an ammo like this? "Hey boss, I jus designed this and its really powerful but..." "I dont care!" the boss replies, "Get it produced!" "But its inaccu.." "PRODUCE!!!" XD I'll adapt either way, as will anyone else I should hope, but eh, I thought it was worth mentioning. Izo Azlion. --- Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
J4m Z Veto.	Posted - 2006.12.01 11:57:00 - [39] This is not only apparent with blasters, this is also a problem for Conflag as pointed out earlier. Mega pulse II's almost have a problem hitting an approaching ship (BS of course) That's with a tracking comp, 5 web drones and 2 tracking enhancers. So don't talk to me about using tracking mods or webs. ---- Be careful you have just entered Terrorbear stomping grounds....
Trefnis Solidline Enterprise Kith of Venal	Posted - 2006.12.01 12:11:00 - [40] As its been said before, use Void vs webbed BS = better dmg, vs smaller targets use antimater. On the other had you could still win if you had activated mwd and moved away from target, then he can follow (reduce transversal), or stay there and move in direction 90 degree (but on longer distance it wont matter that much). Not a flame, just advice, I hope it helps.

JeanPierre	Posted - 2006.12.01 12:25:00 - [41] Originally by: Ituralde Battleship blasters track better than focused medium beams. Quit your complaining about your Megathron tracking and fit a web. Um, did you read his post? He did fit a web. Against another BS. Flying at only 800m from him. Still couldn't hit it for squat.
Mathias Orsen Gold-dust	Posted - 2006.12.01 12:26:00 - [42] why does it have to be all about nerfs in revelations... I was "under the gun" orbiting blasterthrons in a Dominix long before the revelations patch. Blasterthrons with all t2 guns, ammo, tracking mods. My first domi vs blasterthron was against an all t2 from the electrons to the Ogres. From 20km away to 500m away my armor was being melted off. At the time I hit structure he still had shield left, Once I got my close orbit the only damage the mega did to my domi was from his t2 ogres wich I managed to tank. The mega went from 50% shield to a loot can while I was in structure tank the whole time. With that being said, and no other megas haven gotten my domi into structure, I'd say that the lack of ability for a large blaster to hit a close orbiting ship is far from something new. As far as the myrmidon, It's both smaller and faster than a domi so yea... It's gonna go untouched. -------------------------------------- ---"What's in your wallet?"--- "There are two kinds of respect, fear and admiration.... I'll take what I can get"
Zehn Takakura Caldari terra firma team Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.01 12:45:00 - [43] I'm just ****ed Jav Torps got a nerf; however, even though they're now preety much useless it has given my setup a lot of room to breath (allowing for more/better fittings, so in some ways the change is good). So CCP screwed with all the T2 ammo, i understand it is bloody annoying because-aside from the highly specilized situations aforementioned- most of it is now useless; i know one thing, i'll never use javs again cos they now do less dmg than T1 and have had their range (their principle advantage as T2) reduced. So what i say is this- what is the point of making T2 ammo less attractive than T1 by nerfing it? Why dont CCP just bump the power of all the weaker weapons to be in-line with the more powerful ones; that way everyones happy cos nothing gets nerfed and, the whiners get what they want Meh
Nicholai Pestot Gallente Havoc Inc	Posted - 2006.12.01 12:53:00 - [44] Correct me if im wrong, but T2 ammo was only supposed to be better than T1 ammo in certain unique situations. It was never supposed to be superior to T1 ammo in every conceivable way but rather a tool that a smart craftsman would know when to apply. For void this is 'my opponent has little transversal' and for null this is 'my opponent is keeping range'. If your modus operandi means that you can't un-dock with multiple ammo types...well...tough.Change your methods to suit the game. Its like complaining that a logistics ship gets out-fought by a Tech 1, Tier 3 Cruiser. ________________ What you do is you store up the rage, let it fester while you gain strength, then use it to gank those weaker than you... and so the circle of life is complete
Zehn Takakura Caldari terra firma team Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.01 14:38:00 - [45] indeed i agree but, if you had read my post i did state that Jav torps have been nerfed in their range capabilities (i.e. their speed reduced); making their tactical 'niche' marginally reduced, not useless but just extrememly specific to the situation. Meh
Electric Cucumber Amarr coracao ardente	Posted - 2006.12.01 14:59:00 - [46] whining ftw
Johnny Bravo Gallente Draconis Navitas Aeterna	Posted - 2006.12.01 15:37:00 - [47] Originally by: JeanPierre [ He did fit a web. Against another BS. Flying at only 800m from him. Still couldn't hit it for squat. And that was his MAJOR mistake - 800m. At that distance he wouldnt hit even webbed titan. That guy just dont understand the concept of "tracking" used in EVE. Thats all. No blaster help needed here except maybe extra brains.
James Adams Minmatar CCCP INC	Posted - 2006.12.01 15:43:00 - [48] Originally by: Izo Azlion I have a web. Thats why I mentioned that the Myrmidon with an Afterburner webbed at a 800m range could out dodge my Void L Ion II's. Read the post. Seriously dude - why on earth would you let him orbit YOU ? Aren't you the fastest guy here by quite a bit ? Once you've bounced off him and web/counterweb is in effect simply fly away from him - Even with AB turned on he probably won't get enough speed to get any significant transversal speed, and if he does tap the MWD once to get to 1km range or something like that... There's nothing more hillarious than battleships with close-range guns orbiting you at 500m Poor sods
genes Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:45:00 - [49] Originally by: murder one You blaster pilots disgust me. I've been pointing out all this crap for three weeks in the Kali Development Forum, and no one pays attention. Now that it's on TQ, it's suddenly an issue. It's too late in the game for whining now. We're going to be stuck with this crap probably forever. Yes, we've all heard your sad story about the rokh(which probably had a crystal set and a 7 slot tank) who tanked your mega on the test server, boo hoo. Originally by: Izo Azlion Because I should be able, and so should other races, to hit targets at my optimal while their 80% webbed. Edit: Targets that are pretty big. Frigs, Cruisers probably not. But a BC is pretty large. You get 5,5km or so optimal with t2 ions and void, you were sitting at 800m away from him, which is one 7th of your optimal range. On top of that you were using a langour/patterned webber, which sucks horribly compaired to a fleeting. Originally by: Izo Azlion I have battleship 4, so I get 30% to tracking, fantastic, its proved useful. I then trained for tech 2 large blasters. This enabled me to use Void and Null L. Both have had their uses in the past couple of months but now I fear them dead and gone. Void wasn't changed much, slightly less damage(just like all the other close range ammo) and -25%falloff for +25% optimal. Null on the other hand got a .75 multiplier on tracking, which was needed. It made conflag pointless without the tracking pentalty.
Jet Max	Posted - 2006.12.01 18:58:00 - [50] Originally by: Izo Azlion Thoughts, Tuxford? Because I sure as hell donÆt know what IÆm supposed to do with possibly one of my favorite ships, and setups, in the game. Thanks for reading, I donÆt want a flame war, and I donÆt want people discussing the Hyperion out of context to the Ammo changes, nor do I want closed minded people saying ôLOL look at the Gallente whiners!ö Thanks for reading to Tuxford? We could do with some answers from him not just reading. I noticed he rather post an answer to some stupid post somwhere in General Discussion than here.

Phrixus Zephyr Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.12.01 19:31:00 - [51] The question is essentially. How is not being able to hit a webbed BC/BS in your optimal with T2 ammo not broken? For any race. Originally by: Victor Ramirez using it to get the layout of a new system and a quick belt-check is about as practical as using Google Earth to see if your car is still in front of your house.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.12.01 19:43:00 - [52] Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr The question is essentially. How is not being able to hit a webbed BC/BS in your optimal with T2 ammo not broken? For any race. Well, being able to hit webbed BC/BSs in your optimal with t2 ammo just fine is the current situation so i dont know what the issue is.
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter.	Posted - 2006.12.01 20:12:00 - [53] Let me put it this way. If you flew around NEVER unloading your tech2 ammo...then tech2 ammo was overpowered. its not the be all end all...thats why it has penalties. It was supposed to be a tactical choice for certain situations. Now, when you have a tackler who can double web your target...you know you can fly with the tech2 ammo and pwn. Seems absolutely perfect to me. Originally by: Tuxford Yes we don't play on our main accounts simply because you would lose all respect for us
Centurin Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2006.12.01 20:21:00 - [54] There is nothing wrong with fixing t2 ammo. I agree that it was overpowered pre-kali. But nerfing to useless status doesn't exactly make sense. ----------------------------------------------- "It's great playing Caldari Online, isn't it?" by Xori Ruscuv
Sadayiel Caldari Black Lance Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.01 23:22:00 - [55] just 2 points for all those blaster whiners out there. 1: hyperion with a tracking comp tech 2 = same tracking as megathron with bs lvl 4 (considering tech 2 turrets so motion prediction 5) 2: my hyperion with such track comp and void ammo with 6x ions 2 x electrons = continuous hits on curse(cruiser). (as simply as hit keep distance 4500m) Stop blaming about it's orbiting me!! just keep the basic distance and Gank them it's easy!! Banana's 4tw - Xorus
Nordvargr GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.12.01 23:23:00 - [56] Originally by: James Adams Originally by: Izo Azlion I have a web. Thats why I mentioned that the Myrmidon with an Afterburner webbed at a 800m range could out dodge my Void L Ion II's. Read the post. Seriously dude - why on earth would you let him orbit YOU ? Aren't you the fastest guy here by quite a bit ? Once you've bounced off him and web/counterweb is in effect simply fly away from him - Even with AB turned on he probably won't get enough speed to get any significant transversal speed, and if he does tap the MWD once to get to 1km range or something like that... There's nothing more hillarious than battleships with close-range guns orbiting you at 500m Poor sods I don't understand why so many people are even taking this thread seriously. This moron is complaining that he can't hit something with battleship sized guns from 800m, "it's in my optimal range so I should be able to hit it hurrrrrrr." There's nothing wrong with blasters, there's something wrong with this particular pilot, namely he doesn't have a clue about tracking. And people, blasters didn't get nerfed, t2 ammo did, across the board and equally for all.
Wrayeth Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.12.01 23:56:00 - [57] Any of the smaller ships will die to antimatter in short order. Is it that hard to carry some T1 ammo as well as the T2 stuff? Blasterthrons were in use before T2 ammo even came out, and they're likely to be in use far into the future. All Kali did in regards to blasters was to turn the blasterthron from a one-size-pwns-all boat to a "I need to change the ammo in my guns so I can hit my target" ship. In short, this is not a problem. I've never understood why Gallente whine about their ships when they're already the best in the game, on the whole. It's whines like this that result in situations such as the Myrmidon being able to own a command ship (which it can, after the last boost). -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" Might As well Train Another Race
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2006.12.02 00:11:00 - [58] Originally by: Izo Azlion Because I should be able, and so should other races, to hit targets at my optimal while their 80% webbed. Edit: Targets that are pretty big. Frigs, Cruisers probably not. But a BC is pretty large. I think something is bugged with webs and tracking. I find that my ship (Ishkur) and my drones (T2 Hammers, Vespas and Hobs), have an easier time with any rat, of any size, if I don't web the target. I don't use T2 ammo when ratting Serpentis in the belts, I use whatever T1 ammo is lying around (Plutonium, AM, Uranium lately). But I use them in T2 blasters. And my little guns and my little drones have a harder time hitting webbed targets since the patch - even a webbed Port Admiral. I don't get it, but turning off the web results in a boost to DPS. The rats die faster. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Nordvargr GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.12.02 00:20:00 - [59] Originally by: Guillame Herschel Originally by: Izo Azlion Because I should be able, and so should other races, to hit targets at my optimal while their 80% webbed. Edit: Targets that are pretty big. Frigs, Cruisers probably not. But a BC is pretty large. I think something is bugged with webs and tracking. I find that my ship (Ishkur) and my drones (T2 Hammers, Vespas and Hobs), have an easier time with any rat, of any size, if I don't web the target. I don't use T2 ammo when ratting Serpentis in the belts, I use whatever T1 ammo is lying around (Plutonium, AM, Uranium lately). But I use them in T2 blasters. And my little guns and my little drones have a harder time hitting webbed targets since the patch - even a webbed Port Admiral. I don't get it, but turning off the web results in a boost to DPS. The rats die faster. When NPCing you should never web ships you are droning. When the ship doesn't move the drones don't have to follow it at all, so all of their speed becomes transversal and they start outrunning their own tracking, resulting in the loss of DPS you are encountering. Drones have always been this way. There was another problem with drone navigation and drone sharpshooting skills, where if your drone navigation skill exceeded your drone sharpshooting skill then the higher speed caused your drones to move into a more distant orbit which would put them into their falloff if your drone sharpshooting skill was not as high as your drone navigation skill. I understand CCP fixed this but don't know for sure, I'm not about to train my drone navigation skill up another level just to find out!


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